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-   -   CHICAGO | Salesforce Tower | 850 FT | 60 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217949)

dewbs Jul 28, 2021 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivernorthlurker (Post 9352430)
Yes, I speculated the same a few posts back. I imagine there is probably even a point where adding more floors to a building could theoretically reduce the overall amount of leaseable space if the size of the floor plates/footprint are not able to increase.

Is the price of higher floors enough to make that trade worth it? I.e. you maybe have 10% less leasable space, but if you sell it for 15% more on average you come out ahead.

aaron38 Jul 29, 2021 12:38 AM

How high is the core now?
Standing on Fulton Market today seeing it peek over the top of buildings, this has the potential to really stand out at the end of the street canyon.

rivernorthlurker Jul 29, 2021 1:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 9352769)
How high is the core now?
Standing on Fulton Market today seeing it peek over the top of buildings, this has the potential to really stand out at the end of the street canyon.

I think it's around the 38th or so floor. So a bit past half way given that the top/crown will have some added 'non-floor height', I'm gonna guess they're at like 475 ft or so (from city datum) and maybe 500 building height.

I'm excited to see it looking southeast down Milwaukee as WPE already looks huge from that angle. Also it's going to stand out substantially in River North in the area behind the Merchandise Mart.

harryc Aug 1, 2021 5:43 PM

July 26









July 29






oakesd88 Aug 2, 2021 4:28 AM

I believe the Salesforce Tower was originally envisioned as a taller building, maybe at around 72 floors. With the preconstruction leasing now above 85%, I wonder if they can add floors to return to the original height as depicted in most artist renderings?

TallBob Aug 2, 2021 5:28 AM

oakesd88: Actually they can but as previously mentioned....Don't get your hopes up!

rivernorthlurker Aug 2, 2021 5:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakesd88 (Post 9355406)
I believe the Salesforce Tower was originally envisioned as a taller building, maybe at around 72 floors. With the preconstruction leasing now above 85%, I wonder if they can add floors to return to the original height as depicted in most artist renderings?

Extremely unlikely IMO given previous reasons plus how far along it already is. The best hope might be some sort of crown or architectural extension at the top, but I think even that is doubtful. Just enjoy it!

takascar Aug 2, 2021 2:07 PM

Anyone have a guess how far away they are from hitting the level at which the core shrinks down? They ought to be getting close.

Also, not sure I understand the logic for how they are doing the curtain wall - they seem to be skipping the south and east sides. Something must be holding up work on the east and south - maybe a supply chain issue with something that needs completion before they can do windows on those sides.

PittsburghPA Aug 2, 2021 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by takascar (Post 9355517)
Anyone have a guess how far away they are from hitting the level at which the core shrinks down? They ought to be getting close.

Also, not sure I understand the logic for how they are doing the curtain wall - they seem to be skipping the south and east sides. Something must be holding up work on the east and south - maybe a supply chain issue with something that needs completion before they can do windows on those sides.

It's my understanding that they need to finish the podium in order to progress work on the south and east sides. The complexity of the podium is what is taking it a little longer but once that is finished, at their current pace of tower glass, they'll be catching up to the fireproofing netting very quickly.

LouisVanDerWright Aug 3, 2021 3:36 PM

Guys, they add floors to under construction office buildings all the time. I believe it actually happened to several of the most recent crop.

They just don't add like 12 floors or make major design changes like that because that would mess up the elevator counts etc. They add like 2-5 floors because the the design can easily accommodate that slightly higher weight and traffic.

left of center Aug 3, 2021 11:12 PM

Would the city allow them to add any more square footage if they have already maxed out what they can get?

BVictor1 Aug 4, 2021 5:37 AM

08/02/21

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...055391/enhance

SamInTheLoop Aug 5, 2021 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 9356330)
Guys, they add floors to under construction office buildings all the time. I believe it actually happened to several of the most recent crop.

They just don't add like 12 floors or make major design changes like that because that would mess up the elevator counts etc. They add like 2-5 floors because the the design can easily accommodate that slightly higher weight and traffic.


Yeah, it's been even somewhat routine for newer Chicago office towers. To be fair though, I definitely do not believe we've had an example that was this far along in construction before additional floors were announced. To be perhaps even fairer, I also definitely do not believe that (let's assume for a moment that a deal with Kirkland is struck), we've had an example in the last ~20 years in which a tower had either a signed least or an LOI taking the building to (probably) this high of a pre-leased %. Still, this is a little tricky because my preference under more normal market circumstances would be that you would want a half-decent amount of leasing to still occur in the future to give some upside options no matter your intended hold period/exit strategy, etc. These are not normal office market conditions. How confident is prudent right now in terms of tenant demand for small-medium sized spaces at very high rental rates (for Chicago)? At the end of the day, to me, l would take that risk if I'm Hines because I have pretty much the best building/most advanced space in the entire market, and even if the market for this type of tenant/space is a little shaky for an extended time, the competitive advantage will likely make it work and get that extra space leased in a reasonable time frame.

My guess at this point is it more than likely will not happen.....just a guess. Let's put it this way - it would need to happen very soon - as the PD I'd assume will need to go back for amendment (someone will correct if I'm wrong)....not that I expect there to be controversy to move it through.

Was going to make the same point earlier re elevator capacity - that's the real issue, and why they only add a few stories at most (perhaps maxing out at 4-5ish in an outlier case) in these cases. You obviously can't add another bank of elevators, and developers are not going to try to push the final bank to the limit in terms of comfortable capacity. They wouldn't do that prior to the pandemic and they sure aren't going to be getting aggressive on that front now!

chicubs111 Aug 5, 2021 1:28 PM

They should of just went with a larger building/more square footage from the beginning.. they ended up being very conservative on there part considering this will be the most visible/prominent office location the city has..

r18tdi Aug 5, 2021 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 9356330)
Guys, they add floors to under construction office buildings all the time. I believe it actually happened to several of the most recent crop.

They just don't add like 12 floors or make major design changes like that because that would mess up the elevator counts etc. They add like 2-5 floors because the the design can easily accommodate that slightly higher weight and traffic.

IIRC, 110 Wacker got fatter not taller and BMO Tower added just *one* floor.

SamInTheLoop Aug 5, 2021 9:20 PM

^ I believe one or both of Riverpoint and 150 N Riverside added floors.

SamInTheLoop Aug 5, 2021 9:34 PM

One other thing I'll add is that should this tower end up being very highly pre-leased so far out from completion, it could serve as a signal to developers (most of all Hines itself, but others as well) in the market in general - and their lenders - going forward that if you build to the very top of the market (quality-wise, fellow skyscraper geeks - not physical height!) - and assuming competition is relatively light to....let's say reasonable levels, there will be takers in downtown Chicago - encouraging making their projects modestly larger than, they previously would have planned. Will be more challenging of course for lenders to come around and make the adjustments in loosening standards/taking more risk in light of the uncertain macro office outlook, but perhaps there could be some movement in specific cases. Otherwise, developers and their equity partners would need to step most of the way forward and be more aggressive.

dewbs Aug 6, 2021 2:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 9358419)
One other thing I'll add is that should this tower end up being very highly pre-leased so far out from completion, it could serve as a signal to developers in the market in general (and their lenders) going forward that if you build to the very top of the market [...] there will be takers in downtown Chicago

It would be great if you're right. It would be interesting to know how many tenants there are with Kirkland's money and scale, though. I don't think any law firms would qualify, PE firms are typically small. BCG takes up a lot of space with Kirkland in 300 N Lasalle, but I don't think they're close to as profitable now.

SamInTheLoop Aug 6, 2021 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toasty Joe (Post 9358628)
Just hope developers don't make the same mistake at the Thompson Center site. A supertall at either site (particularly TC) would fill a big hole in the skyline between the St Regis/Aon/400 N Wabash cluster and Sears from multiple angles.


woah woah woah. To be clear I'm really not talking about getting into supertall territory. I'm talking about perhaps what might have otherwise been a 50 story tower and instead it becoming a 52-55 story tower, or 58-60 instead of ~55. Outlier territory is something that would have already been a very tall (for today's Chicago office construction market) ~60 story tower and maybe, just maybe taking it up to ~65 stories.

There may always be an exception to the rule, however unlikely......but continue to expect realistic supertall proposals here and realized projects here to be 1) residential or 2) residential and hotel.

pantsblanket Aug 6, 2021 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oakesd88 (Post 9355406)
I believe the Salesforce Tower was originally envisioned as a taller building, maybe at around 72 floors. With the preconstruction leasing now above 85%, I wonder if they can add floors to return to the original height as depicted in most artist renderings?

In a full office building you need a full building lease to have any sort of (serious) negotiation power in the building design. Even with it, adding floors would definitely be...an exception to the norm.

85 says to me they took what they had to in order to get naming rights


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