This hits the nail on the head. It is not as if Phoenix is a city where people don't come to. Unlike Knoxville, Phoenix already brings in a ton of tourists. Our convention center is one of the largest in the nation, and is very often used by large organizations that bring people from all over. The problem is that once they are in downtown, they don't have a lot to do. I guarantee that even in the summer you would have people going up there. Only part of it is open to the weather. The renderings clearly show that a portion of it is covered, and will probably will be air conditioned. Tourists would definitely use that part year round.

Sorry, but it's not like there's a brown cloud on top of the city every single day (like LA). There are plenty of days the city is beautifully clear.

You are correct in stating our built environment is uninspiring, but it's not as bad as you're making it. Have you not witnessed the sun setting on downtown and central as you drive eastbound on the I10? Wonderful view of the cityscape from that direction. Not to mention from South Mountain looking north or from Camelback Mountain looking southwest.

Natural beauty carries a lot of weight. What am I missing here? Again, think of our views from a top of downtown Phoenix. Our natural beauty alone rivals any city you just mentioned. And that should be enough to capture interest.

KingofLeos is right. Thousands come to the Valley and look out off of South Mtn, Camelback, Papago Buttes, etc. The Valley has excellent vistas and to say that we don't is a crock of shit. If you don't like the project, bitch about that, but not that there's nothing to look out at. That makes you a moron.

"Washington Row"?

http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...urial-hub.html

The Biz Journals article is about 12th street and Washington - are these the same project?

Infill development 325 East Coronado
 

Our HOA on Palm Lane received a notice about a new infill development planned for 325 East Coronado, 21 townhomes, 3 levels each, similar to the other modern developments like Willetta 9 & Portland 38.

Is there any chance this will happen?

There were also plans (pre-crash) to build like 14 high end luxury townhomes on north side of Palm Lane, next to The Wellness Community bungalow. That lot is still used only for overflow parking.

We have lived near downtown for 15 years, and are always happy when dirt lots grow into anything other than a Circle K.

Geeski

When will this city learn that forcibly branding areas with monikers like "Washington Row" creates little to no value and nearly always fails to catch on. Are we going to brand every street downtown "__ Row?"

The whole thing is so half-assed. If they were truly trying to brand this corridor, why use "Row" at all, when the ONLY semi-successful effort has been that of Roosevelt Row? Branding is meant to differentiate, and this will do the complete opposite. The only way it makes sense is if they are aiming to create an entire family of sub-brands: Roosevelt Row, Washington Row, Jefferson Row, etc. with each having its own 'thing.' That's a scary thought, as it proves that - yet again - our leaders don't get that in order for downtown to be successful, growth needs to come organically. Slapping on a name and declaring that this is a corridor (ahem, ROW) for entrepreneurship will not work.

Isn't this area already part of the opportunity triangle or whatever the heck it is called, anyway? Why not just run with the story that East Lake Park is reinventing itself as entrepreneurs flock to the area to take advantage of affordable building stock, access to downtown, amenities and creative talent, mass transportation and visibility? Of course, people tend to migrate to area with similar demographics, so as more entrepreneurs come to the area, the cycle will begin... And, it will begin organically which will set the foundation for smart, long-term and sustainable growth for this neighborhood and corridor. Just as Copper Square didn't turn downtown into SoHo, Washington Row won't turn East Lake into Bellevue.

Another sad aspect is our leadership's inability to see that in order for a district like this to survive, it needs to leverage synergies or elements that can't be found elsewhere that will benefit the type of involvement you are hoping to attract. I mentioned some earlier, like the lightrail, access to downtown, etc., but these are nowhere to be found in the article. Why would entrepreneurs want to move to this ares instead of the burbs? There are so many reasons (including education hubs, like ASU, UofP, GCC, etc. along the way - GCC even has a brand new incubator of its own along the route, but this was not mentioned AT ALL), yet our leaders think they'll come because we have branded it as such? Come on.

Last part of my rant is that we have spent decades trying to integrated mixed uses into our downtown so that people could truly live, work and play in our central core and not speed off at 5:00 to get as far away as possible. Yet, here we are in 2013 promoting distinctive uses within defined areas of our downtown. I know the article isn't saying that this area will be solely dedicated to, say, startup technology firms, but I just feel like it is all part of the bigger problem of nobody knowing how to get downtown to truly work. If we have arts on Roosevelt, government on Van Buren, shopping on Jefferson and startups on Washington, aren't we essentially right back where we started, albeit moving these uses closer to each other at least?

I apologize if it seems that I am just reading far too much into one article, but we have been down this path before and it upsets me that we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back continuously. We should be focusing on how to integrate an Arts district like Roosevelt into the overall urban fabric, rather than spending resources and time on creating even more segregation (I'm still sensitive as we watch ASU downtown continue to basically create a walled off campus).

Rant is officially over. I hope I made sense and that I haven't come across as too negative. It would be wonderful to get entrepreneurs to open shop downtown, but I just want to be convinced for once that our city understands how to attract those entrepreneurs while still looking at how that fits into a cohesive big picture that gets our downtown to be competitive with cities that we have fallen so completely behind.

I don't know? Why don't you ask the developers and the media who are marketing this "tower" as a potential iconic structure that would put on a national stage?

We don't need height for the sake of having height. Height does not make a city a city. The tower is hideous and frankly it wouldn't even really serve a purpose other than being some boring tourist destination featuring sweeping views of our dusty, smoggy valley. This is not an out of the box proposal. It has already been labeled Phoenix's version of the Space Needle. There are also similar structures in Dallas and Knoxville. This is a horrific proposal.

This "tower" is not going to keep people downtown. It will be something that locals will do once, then go on to their Suns/DBacks game and never visit again. Visitors will visit for 15 minutes, get bored, and hop in their rental cars to travel to other areas of the Valley. Downtown Phoenix is a lost cause and absolutely nothing can be done to change that. CityScape is a failure, that park with that suspended sculpture thing is a failure, Arizona Center is a continued failure, and whatever other gimmicks that have been employed down there have failed as well. My Christmas visitors noted how dead downtown was during a weekday afternoon and we spent all of 10 minutes there. With this thing, we would have spent 20 minutes down there and then left.

Weren't the light rail, CityScape, ASU, and the suspended sculpture supposed to encourage buzz about downtown? I still have no one in my social circle who travels downtown. There's just nothing down there even with these new developments. Developers need to stop throwing these development experiments at the wall trying to see what sticks. Nothing has stuck.

More retail that will just close up shop after a few months in business? The retail at CityScape is devoid of customers. We have no downtown grocery store because it cannot sustain itself. Restaurants shut down not very long after they open. The Pin is not going to change any of this. It is not going to drag the masses downtown. Urban Outfitters is not going remain downtwn because of this thing. You referred to CityScape as a heinous blue jail, so why would people want to shop there?

It will do none of this. This is your sky high dream and you know it. It will be another failed experiment that will face foreclosure before 2020 and will be boarded up by 2025 along with CityScape, which will be completely devoid of tenants by the end of the decade if not sooner.

Why bother with what? Are you implying that our supposed vistas are the only thing of value here? I know plenty of people who do love our unique landscape. But to deny that it is shrouded in dust and smog many days is just foolish. I stand by my assertion that this thing will do nothing for downtown Phoenix. I'm sure it will be constructed as planned, city leaders and downtown enthusiasts will claim that it will be impetus that will put Phoenix on a national stage, it will open to long lines and great fanfare, it will be popular for several months before starting to see a steady decline in visitors, then, a couple years later, we will get the nice article from the Arizona Republic and the Phoenix Business Journal about the owners facing bankruptcy and foreclosure, and the thing will fall into disrepair and will be shut down and torn down.

WOW, Freeway. Can't find anything good? No offense, but ......well, never mind.

As much as you find negative, I can find positive, but that is my nature. Nuff said..... insert your negative reply to my comment here -" "

Stop getting so testy. Not everyone thinks our views are amazing. Accept it and move on. This will do nothing to spur interest in developing anything downtown.

As someone who is orginally from a city with a traditional, active urban core, it is both hilarious and embarassing that some downtown enthusiasts actually think these sorts of "projects" will make downtown Phoenix a destination for anyone.

16th St. and Washington
 

Found the architect's website. It is Washington Pointe. It's a 3 floor 54 unit low budget old folks home. Yippee.

http://www.acanthusarchitecture.com/...enior-housing/

There are two separate projects: the taller (11 floors) mixed-use development will be at 12th St and Washington (Is that project still happening? Is it scaled back?)...just outside the downtown core and the smaller 3 floor development will be between Washington and Jefferson on 16th Street. Which isn't a bad project for that lower income area. The only thing I do not like is the surface lot facing the frontage road on Washington Street.

To Freeway regarding The Pin:

The fact that you are accusing others of getting testy given the tone of your own responses is proof enough that you aren't able to have a rational discussion of the topic.

I'm not going to waste too much time addressing your response because you obviously aren't interested in having an actual discussion. This is a discussion forum, by the way. Just a reminder that the goal is to talk/debate topics, not beat people over the head with your opinion and ridicule them for having a view that doesn't match yours.

Anyway, to respond to a few of your more incorrect or asssinine items:

CityScape is in no way a failure when it comes to drawing people downtown, providing options for entertainment and dining, and so on. The design is the one element where they really missed; and, while that bothers us as urban design enthusiasts, it hasn't impacted the fact that people ARE going downtown now and spending more time before/after events now that they have been given these options. In other words, it being a gray/blue jail has not stopped - and will not stop - downtown visitors from shopping and spending time/money there. If you don't think CityScape has been a catalyst for more activity downtown, than you either haven't been since it originally opened or you are letting your bias (of the poor design and/or failures of similar centers in the past) impact your judgment. You have to look no further than the ice rink, BlueHound restaurant or Copper Blues to see that our ghost town has been tremendously helped by CityScape's presence.

Light rail, ASU, CityScape, etc. HAVE all worked together to collectively bring more peple downtown and keep them here longer. Anyone who thought just one of these was going to be a game-changer overnight was delusional; but, again, you don't have to look far to see the collective impact. It's a shame that they all came downtown just as the recession hit, but there's no denying that downtown today is infinitely more active than just 5 years ago. Adding more pieces to the puzzle, like hotels (such as being proposed on the Colliers pad), residential (as is under construction at CityScape) and more retail/attractions (like The Pin) will continue to provide long term benefits to the vitality of central Phoenix and drive the cycle of more supply and demand for these investments.

Is this cycle occurring at warp speed? No, but it's growing faster every day as more and more restaurants and shops open in Roosevelt, more apartments and residential are proposed midtown/uptown and more hotels are added downtown. Again, you are stuck in 2009 if you can't see this. Retail is opened later, we have plenty of unique late-night dining options and we are finally starting to see residential proposals follow. Head to Bliss on a Friday night, or get dinner at Arrogant Butcher on a Saturday before heading to Bar Smith... It's all there. It's all visible and obvious.

As far as your circle of friends and acquaintances not being drawn any more to downtown than they had been in 2007, different strokes I guess. In my office alone, I have friends that work out at Gold's, live at Tapestry, party at Bar Smith, do karaoke at Copper Blues, etc. We have all gone as a group to see a comedy show at Stand Up Live, and recently took clients out to Rum Bar/Breadfruit. I'm sorry to hear that you know so many who have seen empty streets... Again, I'm tempted to think they haven't gone downtown in years, or they are just comparing Phoenix to places like Seattle, which is just not the point of any of this.

The point is that downtown Phoenix of today is a much different place than the Phoenix of 2007-2009. The collective impact of public and private investments that were made during that time period is just now starting to be felt. For those of us who have ridden that wave over the last several years as we anxiously awaited this turning point, this change is obvious. It feels great to be a part of a city that is still changing and still growing, and it feels even better when the private sector shows interest in making our downtown a great place through developments such as The Pin.

When I saw this proposal, I didn't see scorching railings, polluted vistas and boarded up retail. Instead, I thought that FINALLY, we were heading back to the golden days of the boom where we saw proposals constantly and people were excited to invest in downtown and revitalize our central core. If your first inclination is to think those first few thoughts, that's your prerogative. But, for most of us on this forum, we are here to watch our city grow and become competitive with cities that it should be in the same class with.

Constructive criticism is fantastic, as has been the case with a lot of what has come our way over the last several years, but that criticism has always been done with the best interests of Phoenix in mind. Reading a post like yours doesn't show intent to make our city the best it can be - it shows that you are being igorant of the positive changes that have impacted our city and that you have a negative view of even the very best assets we possess. Because of that, I won't waste energy responding again.

Well said Jjs5056!!!

That quote is a great example not only of your lack of knowledge, but also why your argument is invalid. If you have no faith on downtown, why are you even on here? Downtown Phoenix has become a lot more interesting in the past ten years, and even-though it is still not a great attraction, it does have some buzz, and a ton of potential. I at least can see how 3 or 4 different projects could really turn things around. Downtown indeed will never be NYC, or Seattle, or San Fran, but it is starting to become a much more livelier place. All indicators show that there is a great demand for living spaces near downtown, and the additions that have been done are making a difference. It won't take long for our developers to see that investing in downtown is a good business idea, and if you don't believe me look at the new residential projects that have come up recently. Downtown Phoenix is not what we want it to be yet, but a lost cause? It is far from that.

Nice response jjs5056.
Freeway, I understand your frustrations, write Phx off and rule out all hope for DT is silly, given how much has happened in 3-4 years.

Downtowns (of large cities) in general are usually dead spots after happy hour, even in our most vibrants cities, such as Boston, SF, LA and Lower Manhattan. They are filled with giant office towers that kill city blocks, occupied by 9-5ers, govt employees, bankers, lawyers, and businesses that cater to these demographics.

Much of downtown SD is quiet, with the exception of the Gaslamp. The Gaslamp lives and dies by the convention center. When there aren't big conventions in town, even the Gaslamp is sleepy during the weekdays.

It is the immediate surrounding neighborhoods that flourish in vibrant cities. Ie: Hillcrest, PB/OB, Little Italy, North Park etc.... I would hope that one day, the surrounding neighborhoods of DT Phx fill-in the empty lots, re-vegetate the dusty yards, open local bars and restaurants etc...the problem is, who wants to live close to DT if it isn't a HUGE employment center?

Phoenix is making the right steps, slowly but surely. Bring in more jobs to the DT core and residents will flock there and revitalize the neighborhoods.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/re...o-phoenix.html

I'm not sure if this was mentioned before but the Novawest developer is moving headquarters to Phoenix from Denver. It is a small firm but at least they are putting actual roots down here in Phoenix, so maybe that "Pin" tower is a higher possibility. I still want to see more details on the tower itself but I would not be against it and I think it would add something interesting to downtown. However, to really get DT Phoenix vibrant, we need more residential near the area. It's happening...just not at the rate most of us would like.

That is interesting. You would think their moving here might spur on the tower. Cool!

Downtown advocates weighing in on proposed Phoenix Observation Tower
 

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n....html?page=all

The Pin really doesn't stack up that well against the rest of the notable towers but I'll echo what's been said before; it doesn't have to "put Phoenix on the map" for it to be a success. As a fan of tall buildings/towers who has been to the top of the CN Tower, Stratosphere Tower, Eiffel Tower (Las Vegas), Sears (Willis) Tower, Hancock Center, Renaissance Center, and even the Hyatt Regency Compass Room, I am very supportive of it whether it's 420ft tall or 1,000 ft tall. It will be another attraction to bring and keep people downtown. I'm just hoping this isn't all a publicity stunt with no intentions to ever build The Pin just to get Novawest's name out there.

^ Does anyone have the map showing the FAA height limit overlay on Downtown handy? I feel like Combusean or maybe it was HX_Guy always had it.

Im wondering why they settled on 420', seems random unless thats the max for that parcel.

I'd hope for 500', so we could have a new tallest. Or if thats not possible, 450'. As 450'=150 yards tall, and if it opens in 2015 for the Super Bowl that would be the 150th anniversary of PHX being recognized as a town/settlement (we got our 1st post office that year, didn't incorporate until 1881), so that would be nice symbolic congruity.