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Chuckaluck May 6, 2013 6:57 AM

Different States, different architects but more than a few superficial similarities?

I suppose it's far fetched, and somewhat off topic, but is there any direct evidence that LA's City Hall influenced the design of other government buildings, in other states or countries - or vice versa? A few 28-story buildings come to mind, including the Dade County Courthouse in Miami Florida built in '25. Admittedly, the Florida building appears to be much smaller and shorter than the LA City Hall, but there is enough of a similarity to make me ask about it. Then there is Austin's Tower and . . .

http://www.sunpostweekly.com/wp/wp-c...icture-039.jpghttp://www.sunpostweekly.com/wp/wp-c...icture-039.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...LAmasjHvRr0c8vhttps://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...LAmasjHvRr0c8v



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...March_2011.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...March_2011.jpg







We now return to our regularly scheduled programing. ;)


Another City Hall.

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JB68V2VMJY.jpg
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JB68V2VMJY.jpg


http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JLFUMJJ2HP.jpg
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...JLFUMJJ2HP.jpg

Godzilla May 6, 2013 7:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fab Fifties Fan (Post 6117185)
Circa 1946
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...UNSU8HQBTL.jpg

Thank you so much for posting this photo Godzilla. My parents were married in Long Beach on July 14, 1944. They had their small wedding reception and two day honeymoon at the Hilton before my dad shipped out to the South Pacific. It's wonderful to see a photo from that era.

Mom and Dad. Taken at a photo a photo studio just off the lobby of the Hilton.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9052/momdadwedding.jpg
Personal Photo

~Jon Paul

Thank you for adding some personality to the building's story.



Before there was a "Sky Room."

"In 1938, Hilton opened the Sky Room atop the hotel, and it became one of the most popular restaurants gathering spots in Southern California. Movie stars such as Clark Gable, Errol Flynn, Rita Hayworth, Cary Grant and John Wayne were said to have been customers at the Sky Room during the Hilton years. One customer recalled the Sky Room as follows: ‘It was a dating place, like the Brown Derby and Coconut Grove. It was the place to go.’ " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker..._California%29


'25 (?) First known as the Breakers
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040118.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040118.jpg


'30
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040124.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040124.jpg


'32
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics46/00072759.jpghttp://jpg3.lapl.org/pics46/00072759.jpg


'32
http://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081587.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/00081/00081587.jpg




'38
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040120.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics41/00040120.jpg


'38
http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics39/00069094.jpghttp://jpg3.lapl.org/pics39/00069094.jpg

MichaelRyerson May 6, 2013 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemster2024 (Post 6116442)
bighen posted an old photo of some construction men at work on Ord, and in the background was the Sunset Hotel. Photo comparison of the position of the visible windows and doorway on the south side of the building strongly suggest that at least the ground floor survives today, its brick facade covered with stucco and plaster, as MichaelReyerson surmised.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1999/img0649oc.jpg
usc digital archive


http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/962/img2080ae.jpg
my photo

Who knows what goodies from the Sunset might still be surviving down there? One can only wonder...!


Well, once again I can't find fault with your reasoning. And man, oh man, would I like to look around in that basement. I'm coming out to California in June and I'll probably snoop around down here for a day or so. May try to reach the building owner for access (although sometimes building owners can be funny about strangers taking pictures of their old buildings).

Here's a shot that shows the little door and the two arched windows which flank it. Also the series of window openings going toward New High Street (the sign for the Cosmopolitan Café would have been right there in the third window).


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8535/8...c1e824ee_b.jpg
Sunset Hotel


I think I'm satisfied we've found the remnants of the Sunset and San Fernando hotels. Congrats to both of you, Lemster and Bighen for a job well done. [deep bow]

Now what's that I see up the street on Ord between New High Street and N. Broadway?? What's that little wedge shaped brick building?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8...3d829494_b.jpg
New Mystery Building

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8132/8...7c1b3244_b.jpg
New Mystery Building (2)


Hmmmmmm...

JScott May 6, 2013 7:26 PM

Speaking of old buildings like the Sunset and San Fernando Hotels that have been "lost in plain sight" over the decades, Brian Hsu recently had an excellent post on his Urban Diachrony blog about the Wilcox Building at the SE corner of Spring and Second Sts.

http://urbandiachrony.wordpress.com/...ets-1924-2013/

I can't tell you how many times I've driven by the nondescript remains of this building and never suspected that it was, in fact, a still-surviving 19th century neighbor of the Bryson Block and the Hollenbeck Hotel. I'm sure that's because about 90% of the original structure is gone now and what's left bears pretty much zero resemblance to what it looked like in its heyday. But yeah, a portion of one of Los Angeles's oldest office buildings does indeed still stand, and according to Brian's post, it remained largely intact until the Sylmar earthquake of 1971. Check it out!

Flyingwedge May 6, 2013 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 4925672)
Fire at the St. George Hotel in 1952.

http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5969/a...ntownstgeo.jpg
http://esotouric.com/mainhotel

Below: Much to my surprise, the St. George Hotel still stands.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4...ehotelneed.jpg
willowscottage.blogspot

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6...ebysaturni.jpg
saturnine

More info on the St. George Hotel.

http://www.housingfinance.com/ahf/ar...6_AHF_12-3.htm

While I was poking around 3rd and Main recently http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=14439 I came across an early (c. 1905-1909) photo of the St. George Hotel (1905) at 115 E. 3rd Street when it was known as the Bisbee Inn:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps401c7d25.jpg
USC Digital Library -- http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/si.../id/2135/rec/6

Closeup of the entrance:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...psc1bed097.jpg

The entrance in January 2011:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps04e61b01.jpg
GSV

The 1910 Baist Map lists the building as Girard's House, but it had already been renamed the St. George by 1912. In that year it had the first of three fatal fires; 5 dead and dozens injured on November 19, 1912: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/...Y+MORNING+FIRE.

“As early as 1912, a fire in the St. George Hotel in the downtown area raised the issue of the danger of open stairwells in spreading fires" . . . a quote from this LA City Planning Dept. document: http://cityplanning.lacity.org/cwd/gnlpln/saftyelt.pdf

Here's a larger photo of the 1952 fire, which killed seven and injured over 50 on March 25, 1952:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps79a52dae.jpg
Gendisasters.com -- http://www3.gendisasters.com/califor...-fire-mar-1952

Then there was another fire in May 1983: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/...4th+Since+1912

The west side in 2011. When the St. George was built, 3rd Street hadn't been realigned yet, and there were two buildings between the St. George and Main Street, so the "back" side didn't show so much:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps993ed1d3.jpg
GSV

The south and east sides in 2011; you can see where 3rd Street was realigned immediately to the west of the St. George:
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps12e69097.jpg
GSV

It's amazing that this building is still standing. It's survived three major fires that have killed 14 people, street realignment, earthquakes, and 108 years of use.

bighen May 6, 2013 11:11 PM

Ord Street
 
Michael Ryerson writes:

Now what's that I see up the street on Ord between New High Street and N. Broadway?? What's that little wedge shaped brick building?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7284/8...3d829494_b.jpg
New Mystery Building

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8132/8...7c1b3244_b.jpg
New Mystery Building (2)


Hmmmmmm...[/QUOTE]

Here is a picture of the Phoenix Inn Restaurant back at the turn of the century from a Los Angeles Revisited blog about Sonora town, Ord Street and Spring:

http://imageshack.us/a/img203/7558/00059276.jpg



Source: http://losangelesrevisited.blogspot....hina-city.html


The blog also has some information that you may be interested in regarding the two hotels.


And another view of the building from Broadway from the LAPL:

http://imageshack.us/a/img811/396/00059014.jpg

Lwize May 6, 2013 11:57 PM

Sometimes I like stating the obvious, but with all the LA City Hall pictures above, it really is an impressive, iconic structure. :)

Kbaum May 7, 2013 12:18 AM

.

Kbaum May 7, 2013 12:25 AM

.

revheavyg May 7, 2013 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6115408)
These slides were listed on ebay this afternoon.

http://imageshack.us/a/img805/4601/a...aymay2013a.jpg
Is that a cab to the right of the street car? It's awesome.




http://imageshack.us/a/img822/2346/aabtransiteb1.jpg
I guess he's brushing the dust off.




http://imageshack.us/a/img46/4310/aabtransitebaym1.jpg
I love that red car.





http://imageshack.us/a/img841/4909/a...baymay2013.jpg
two more great cars whizzing past the bus.






This is my favorite. Can anyone identify this intersection?

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/4020/aa...yrosemarys.jpg



In the distance there is a vertical sign that I believe says 'Rosemary'.
http://imageshack.us/a/img209/4020/a...yrosemarys.jpg


The drug store on the right.
http://imageshack.us/a/img594/4020/a...yrosemarys.jpg







At least this one had some information. -Vernon Yards-

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/1122/a...vernonyard.jpg
the streetcar looks lost without the tracks.




This slide was labeled Seoul Korea. (where many LARy street cars ended up)
http://imageshack.us/a/img11/5041/aa...nsptoseoul.jpg

__





..and from a different seller.

http://imageshack.us/a/img23/4255/aabtransstreet.jpg
Nite-Lite Motel.....makes me drowsy. zzzzzzzz
__


What Became Of Los Angeles' Streetcars?
Where did the Streetcars/Trolleys of Pacific Electric and Los Angeles Railway Go?

The last “Red Cars” and “Yellow Cars” were retired when their lines' were converted to buses. Most of the rail cars were cut up for scrap.

The principal scrap value was the trucks and motors, as the latter contained much copper. The streetcar bodies were a drag on the scrapyard since there was little profit due to the cost of cutting them up. They often contained wood and other materials that could not be salvaged. Strict air-pollution regulations prevented their being burned in the open, a traditional reduction method.

However, not all the streetcars were scrapped. For reasons of economic value or historical worth, some escaped the scrapper’s torch. Many types of rail cars that ran on the Pacific Electric (Red Car) and Los Angeles Railway (Yellow Car) systems still exist today at museums.

When the Echo Park Avenue line of Pacific Electric was converted to bus in 1950, 15 of the 100-class cars were sold for re-use to the local transit undertaking in Veracruz, Mexico. They were only 20 years old at the time; young by streetcar standards. Stripped of complicated safety devices, they served that railway for many years.

The remaining Northern District rail service was converted to buses in 1951. In 1952, all 50 of the 1100-class steel suburban cars were sold to the General Urquiza Railway, a suburban electric operation outside of Buenos Aires, Argentina. They were in service there for many years, and some of them later ran as unpowered coaches in Paraguay.

The “Hollywoods” were a natural for re-use, so the General Urquiza Railway electric suburban line bought 28 of them in 1952. Eight of the 600-class “Hollywood” cars were sold to the Portland (Oregon) Traction Co. in 1953 and served that system until it quit in 1958. A couple of the cars survive at museums.

Pacific Electric had purchased 30 “PCC” streamliners in 1940. Upon conversion of the Glendale-Burbank to buses in 1955, they were placed in storage inside the leaky former Pacific Electric subway in downtown Los Angeles. The company wished to find purchasers of cars for re-use rather than selling them to scrap. They finally found a buyer in 1959, the same General Urquiza Railway that had bought other Pacific Electric cars. These streetcars also ran for many years in that system.

By the time the last “Red Car” line (to Long Beach) was converted to bus operation in 1961, the fleet of “Blimps” (as the owl-faced cars were dubbed) were worn out. It was unlikely anyone would buy them for re-use, so they were all cut up for scrap, except for 4 cars that went to museums.

The “Yellow Car” Story

Many of the Los Angeles Railway (and successor) streetcars, minus their trucks and gear, were sold as houses until the late 1940s, when local ordinances put a stop to this practice.

In 1956, 60 of the H-class steel streetcars from the early 1920s were sold by a scrap dealer for re-use on the Seoul and Pusan systems of war-torn Korea. Those systems happened to have the same peculiar 3-foot, 6-inch track gauge as Los Angeles Railway. These streetcars ran for there for some years but are now all gone.

When the final streetcar lines were converted to bus in 1963, the Los Angeles Metropolitan Transit Authority put the remaining 164 streetcars, all “PCC” streamliners, into dead storage at Vernon Yard. It was hoped that they still had resale value for re-use somewhere. Four cars were taken to museums, one was destroyed in an accident in 1956, and two others were sold to individuals.

The remaining 158 "Yellow Cars" went to Cairo, Egypt (133) and Chile Mining (25). Although Cairo’s track gauge was one meter (about 39 ¼ inches) it was found that the Los Angeles cars’ wheels could be machined to fit. The Chile Mining railway was 42 inches wide (a gauge used in many British colonies, as well as Japan).
http://www.metro.net/about/library/a...es-streetcars/

HenryHuntington May 7, 2013 3:19 AM

Chuckaluck, re: post 14422...

IIRC, Jesse R. Ellico was the Ford dealer in Alhambra in the 1950s and no doubt for some time before. Or at least that's what I remember from my childhood in those parts.

alanlutz May 7, 2013 5:40 AM

[QUOTE=Godzilla;6117288]The credit goes to gsjansen and many other posters on the board.

City Hall is part of popular culture and symbolizes so many things to so many people. Independence, strength, imagination, parking tickets, traffic, Frank Shaw, George Reeves, Kent McCord, etc. . . . From what I recall, until the mid '60s it was downtown LA's tallest structure, standing virtually alone over LA Skyline. Yes, the Richfield Tower and a handful of other towers existed, but they hardly detracted from the CH's strong presence as made clear by so many photos posted here.

Godzilla, thanks for the great collection of City Hall photos. This one stuck out to me since I was just there Friday and collected a shot of my own of the Jonathan Club Building. One of the kids in my tour even commented on the authenticity of the old bulding with the fire escapes on the side.

Some interesting before and afters of the area >>>> :http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...9JTG74LF5K.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...9JTG74LF5K.jpg
Then...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7441/8...1f78d0fa9c.jpg

And Now...
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7382/8...cdae65edd3.jpg
My Photo

Chuckaluck May 7, 2013 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HenryHuntington (Post 6118401)
Chuckaluck, re: post 14422...

IIRC, Jesse R. Ellico was the Ford dealer in Alhambra in the 1950s and no doubt for some time before. Or at least that's what I remember from my childhood in those parts.

Thanks. Starting location, 200 West Valley Road, Alhambra. Not much evidence suggesting the structure or the dealership survived past the '60s. Some interesting deco-ish architecture near that location.

Pumps, deco font style, and streamline roof additions suggest the building was a product of the '30s. Would have looked right at home next to the Pan Pacific Auditorium. Curious window treatment. Individual glass pieces or an ornamental appliqué?

Looks as though the building also served as a 1-car showroom (or did Jesse use the room for paint curing? :rolleyes:)


http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...66162304_n.jpghttp://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...66162304_n.jpg
http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...13101553_n.jpghttp://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...13101553_n.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...8a25a126b7.jpghttp://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...8a25a126b7.jpg

westcork May 7, 2013 3:17 PM

Here is another building that is still standing. This is at 4th and Broadway. It was once the Cumming's Shoe store


http://imageshack.us/a/img407/8281/cummings.jpg
GSV


A view of the building at the corner of 4th and Broadway with a shoe on top to advertise the W.E. Cummings shoe business. The street below is closed for street work, but horses and carriages can be seen along one side of the building.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013829.jpg
LAPL

Chuckaluck May 7, 2013 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westcork (Post 6118812)
Here is another building that is still standing. This is at 4th and Broadway. It was once the Cumming's Shoe store


http://imageshack.us/a/img407/8281/cummings.jpg
GSV


A view of the building at the corner of 4th and Broadway with a shoe on top to advertise the W.E. Cummings shoe business. The street below is closed for street work, but horses and carriages can be seen along one side of the building.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013829.jpg
LAPL


Nice find. Too bad more of this once-substantial structure couldn't have been saved or "re-soled." What horses?


http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013822.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics08/00013822.jpg


http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics42/00070831.jpghttp://jpg3.lapl.org/pics42/00070831.jpg


Wonder if there is a relation vvvvv :shrug:
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...E62U8J8A72.jpg http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...E62U8J8A72.jpg

Chuckaluck May 7, 2013 4:00 PM

Have we looked at the Boyle Hotel in East LA? (Searched without success.)

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...RIHBHA24MX.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...RIHBHA24MX.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uGryIGX.jpg?1http://i.imgur.com/uGryIGX.jpg?1

MichaelRyerson May 7, 2013 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS1911 (Post 6084782)
View looking northeast from L. A. County Courthouse ca. 1900.

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/4...ourthousec.jpg

Is that an early natural gas storage tank in the background?

http://imageshack.us/a/img255/4760/n...useca1900d.jpg

USC Digital Archive

A month or so ago, ws1911 posted this great shot of the Aliso/Commercial Street corridor and included this nice little detail lifted from it. He (she?) was looking for gasometers but in looking at the detail, it occurred to me we have a better than average view of the front of the Oriental Hotel on the southeast corner of Alameda and Commercial. See below...


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/8...c85ea494_o.jpg
Detail, Oriental Hotel

The Oriental was located in a busy, industrial/commercial section of turn-of-the-century Los Angeles, hard by the railroad tracks of Alameda Street and just a short block north of the Octoroon, far from the lace curtains and perfumed parlors of Fort Moore or Bunker Hill.

tovangar2 May 7, 2013 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson (Post 6118868)
A month or so ago, ws1911 posted this great shot of the Aliso/Commercial Street corridor and included this nice little detail lifted from it. He (she?) was looking for gasometers but in looking at the detail, it occurred to me we have a better than average view of the front of the Oriental Hotel on the southeast corner of Alameda and Commercial. See below...


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7429/8...c85ea494_o.jpg
Detail, Oriental Hotel

The Oriental was located in a busy, industrial/commercial section of turn-of-the-century Los Angeles, hard by the railroad tracks of Alameda Street and just a short block north of the Octoroon, far from the lace curtains and perfumed parlors of Fort Moore or Bunker Hill.

Thank you for pointing out the Oriental. (Don't miss the great bulk of the Maier & Zobelein Brewery at upper left too.)


I'm half missing wonderful posts b/c I don't have the time right now to give them the attention they deserve, but I will catch up.

tovangar2 May 7, 2013 7:50 PM

BTW, how on earth did I miss this?
(Pls read the caption)

This photo is familiar to all of us, thx to e_r, but I'd not seen the caption info before:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o...60218%2BPM.jpg
http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_fo...s-angeles.html

Dug up from a canyon in the late 1850s and moved with several others to a lot on San Pedro between 2nd and 3rd.

There was a house east of San Pedro between 2nd and 3rd with what may have been a palm-lined entrance drive:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...60504%2BPM.jpg
http://www.bigmapblog.com/2011/los-a...eared-in-1871/

Slightly earlier photo, 1888, 35- or 40-year-old tree getting ready for the move to the Arcade Depot (looking west, as there's St Vibiana in the background) :
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...60948%2BPM.jpg
http://www.lamag.com/citythink/cityt...dest-palm-tree (detail)

The familiar arrangement:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r...61056%2BPM.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/84263554@N00/7637123686/

Much later photo.Hiding in plain sight with signage:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e...61644%2BPM.jpg
gsv

The monument inscription:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6...61832%2BPM.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=yFq...20tree&f=false

I've come to the inescapable conclusion that I know nothing (or maybe I'm just the last to know anything) and for the moment I'm too busy to fix that.

MichaelRyerson May 7, 2013 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tovangar2 (Post 6119174)
The monument inscription:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F...710%2520AM.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=yFq...20tree&f=false

I've come to the inescapable conclusion that I know nothing (or maybe I'm just the last to know anything) and for the moment I'm too busy to fix that.


It occurs to me the last line of the monument inscription, with slight paraphrasing, expresses how I (and many others, I'm sure) feel about this place, noirish Los Angeles...

'These images are placed here, where they and their sentimental associations might be permanently preserved.'

As to your personal lament, let me say, in this you are not alone. In fact, you're in good company, kid.


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