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ethereal_reality Apr 19, 2018 3:20 AM

'mystery' location.



Landscape photography / lantern slide

"Olive tree, Los Angeles (trees and structure along road), undated"

Waugh, F. A. (Frank Albert), 1869-1943


When I first saw this image as a thumbnail

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/3...922/IaPgbF.jpg

I thought it might be the Wayfarer Chapel under construction.

FULL SIZE
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/vfyLSy.jpg
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS, AMHERST LIBRARY

When viewed full size you can even see design elements that are reminiscent of Frank Lloyd Wright (and Lloyd Wright)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/Pilag4.jpg
DETAIL

But I don't think it's the Wayfarers Chapel. For one thing, the landscape photographer [Waugh] died in 1943

The chapel was built between 1949-1951 (F.L.W. designed it a few years earlier)

Does anyone know what this 'mystery' structure might be? :shrug:
___



FOR ODINTHOR

Which is the olive tree....the one on the left or the one on the right? (Waugh titled his slide 'Olive tree'..as in one tree, singular)

_

odinthor Apr 19, 2018 4:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8159968)
'mystery' location.



Landscape photography / lantern slide

"Olive tree, Los Angeles (trees and structure along road), undated"

Waugh, F. A. (Frank Albert), 1869-1943


When I first saw this image as a thumbnail

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/3...922/IaPgbF.jpg

I thought it might be the Wayfarer Chapel under construction.

FULL SIZE
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/vfyLSy.jpg
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS, AMHERST LIBRARY

When viewed full size you can even see design elements that are reminiscent of Frank Lloyd Wright (and Lloyd Wright)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/Pilag4.jpg
DETAIL

But I don't think it's the Wayfarers Chapel. For one thing, the photographer [Waugh] died in 1943

and the chapel was built in 1949-1951 (F.L.W. designed it a few years earlier)

Does anyone know what this 'mystery' structure might be?
___



FOR ODINTHOR

Which is the olive tree....the one on the left or the one on the right? (Waugh titled his slide 'Olive tree'..as in one tree, singular)

_

Yes, thanks e_r, my eye went straight to the Olive when I saw the pic, as . . . I have a big big Olive tree in my front yard that I've lived with since I was a li'l odinthor. The Olive in the pic is the one prominent left front, with the V trunk. The one on the right might actually be another Olive, but it looks a little less characteristic (I'm looking at that branch jutting out at upper right, kind of strange-looking for an Olive . . . and yet, on the same right-hand tree, the silhouette of the branches and leaves on the left side of that tree looks very Olive).

Flyingwedge Apr 19, 2018 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Charles (Post 8158784)

As to the Taylor residence (the articles lists BOTH “1279 East Thirty Eighth Street” and “1292 East Thirty Eighth Street”), the address doesn't seem to exist..? Or at least I can't find it. East Thirty Eighth street seems to end at the 600 block, only to start again at the 2000 block:

https://i.imgur.com/eM7fpSG.jpg


Scott Charles, what is now E. 41st Street used to be E. 38th Street. I don't know when the change happened,
but I believe that both 1279 and 1292 E. 38th/41st are still standing.

The building permit for 1292-94 is dated March 20, 1913. There is a building permit listed (but no image) for
1279 dated April 4, 1906. Below, in the upper right corner, is a bit of the Jefferson High School campus:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...1.jpg~original

Contemporary Google Aerial


Here's the 1921 Baist Map showing that today's E. 41st St. was then E. 38th St., with 1279 and 1292-94
appearing on the map:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...b.jpg~original

USCDL

Los Angeles Past Apr 19, 2018 5:09 AM

Street Renumbering
 
Can anyone tell me the specifics of the renumbering of street addresses in 19th century Los Angeles? When did that happen? What was the starting point of the old system? (Temple Street, maybe?)

I've had a query from someone who is looking to find a photo of 34 Spring Street in the 1870s, which I think has to be one of the 'old' address numbers.

How can I translate that into the more modern address that I might be able to find on a Sanborn map?

Thanks for any help!

Scott Charles Apr 19, 2018 6:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 8160018)
Scott Charles, what is now E. 41st Street used to be E. 38th Street. I don't know when the change happened,
but I believe that both 1279 and 1292 E. 38th/41st are still standing.

The building permit for 1292-94 is dated March 20, 1913. There is a building permit listed (but no image) for
1279 dated April 4, 1906. Below, in the upper right corner, is a bit of the Jefferson High School campus:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...1.jpg~original

Contemporary Google Aerial


Here's the 1921 Baist Map showing that today's E. 41st St. was then E. 38th St., with 1279 and 1292-94
appearing on the map:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...b.jpg~original

USCDL

Wow! Thanks for the info, Flyingwedge! How on earth did you know about that street's name change??

This, according to the article, was Elva's home:

https://i.imgur.com/pmxzScq.jpg

And this would be her brother's house -

https://i.imgur.com/5i7UX5Q.jpg

It's great finding these old house locations for my family! :)

Flyingwedge Apr 19, 2018 6:49 AM

:previous: I'm glad to help out!

I discovered the E. 38th/41st Street thing when I did my post on White Sox Park, which was on that street just east of Jefferson HS.

Flyingwedge Apr 19, 2018 8:12 AM

19th-Century LA Street Address Numbering
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Los Angeles Past (Post 8160051)
Can anyone tell me the specifics of the renumbering of street addresses in 19th century Los Angeles? When did that happen? What was the starting point of the old system? (Temple Street, maybe?)

I've had a query from someone who is looking to find a photo of 34 Spring Street in the 1870s, which I think has to be one of the 'old' address numbers.

How can I translate that into the more modern address that I might be able to find on a Sanborn map?

Thanks for any help!

Good question! From what I can tell, there was no requirement for buildings to be numbered prior to March 1883. The
ordinance described below was, if I'm not mistaken, supplanted by the one we operate under now in December 1889
(which eliminated two-digit house numbers):

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...g.jpg~original
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...z.jpg~original

March 14, 1883, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


Prior to 1883, I think most address numbering, or at least with Spring Street, started at 1; the 1878 LACD has
people at 1-1/2 Spring, which would have to be just south of Temple. The 1883-84 LACD is the first to list North
and South Spring.

So, if the 34 Spring of the 1870s was on the east side of the street, it may have been just south of the old Temple
County Courthouse
. Does your friend only have the address, or is there any other info (name of owner or type of
building, etc.)? I think that site would now be under the City Hall grounds.

Los Angeles Past Apr 19, 2018 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 8160101)
Good question! From what I can tell, there was no requirement for buildings to be numbered prior to March 1883. The
ordinance described below was, if I'm not mistaken, supplanted by the one we operate under now in December 1889
(which eliminated two-digit house numbers):

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...g.jpg~original
http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...z.jpg~original

March 14, 1883, Los Angeles Times @ ProQuest via LAPL


Prior to 1883, I think most address numbering, or at least with Spring Street, started at 1; the 1878 LACD has
people at 1-1/2 Spring, which would have to be just south of Temple. The 1883-84 LACD is the first to list North
and South Spring.

So, if the 34 Spring of the 1870s was on the east side of the street, it may have been just south of the old Temple
County Courthouse
. Does your friend only have the address, or is there any other info (name of owner or type of
building, etc.)? I think that site would now be under the City Hall grounds.


Great info! And yes, the person is specifically looking for a shoe store operated by Angus S. McDonald (1842-1916). He arrived in Los Angeles in 1869, opened his first store in the original United States Hotel, then later moved it to 34 Spring Street.

Thanks so much!

HossC Apr 19, 2018 1:40 PM

:previous:

I think we're going to need to concentrate our image search on the late 1870s and early 1880s for the location you want. Here are some of Angus S McDonald's entries in the CDs:

1875 A S McDonald, mfr and dlr in boots and shoes, 104 Main
1878 A S McDonald, boots etc, 34 Spring
1879-80 A S McDonald, boot and shoe dealer, 34 Spring
1881-82 A S McDonald, boots and shoes, 34 Spring
1883-84 A S McDonald, manufacturer and dealer boots and shoes, 46 N Spring
1887 A S McDonald, boots and shoes, 46 North Spring
1890 as McDonald & Fisher with Charles L Fisher, 46 North Spring
1891 & 1893 Angus S McDonald, boots and shoes, 118 North Spring

Los Angeles Past Apr 19, 2018 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 8160213)
:previous:

I think we're going to need to concentrate our image search on the late 1870s and early 1880s for the location you want. Here are some of Angus S McDonald's entries in the CDs:

1875 A S McDonald, mfr and dlr in boots and shoes, 104 Main
1878 A S McDonald, boots etc, 34 Spring
1879-80 A S McDonald, boot and shoe dealer, 34 Spring
1881-82 A S McDonald, boots and shoes, 34 Spring
1883-84 A S McDonald, manufacturer and dealer boots and shoes, 46 N Spring
1887 A S McDonald, boots and shoes, 46 North Spring
1890 as McDonald & Fisher with Charles L Fisher, 46 North Spring
1891 & 1893 Angus S McDonald, boots and shoes, 118 North Spring



Yes, he moved around quite a bit! Also noted residences on 2nd Street in various entries. According to my querier, he started out with a shop in the U.S. Hotel. I presume that was the 104 Main address. Also, am wondering if 118 North Spring is the same spot as 46 North, after the 'renumbering'.

oldstuff Apr 19, 2018 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Charles (Post 8158784)
Oh my GOD!! :haha: That is so awesome, ER! Thank-you for finding and posting it!! What a great article to find, just shy of 100 years after publication!


As to the Taylor residence (the articles lists BOTH “1279 East Thirty Eighth Street” and “1292 East Thirty Eighth Street”), the address doesn't seem to exist..? Or at least I can't find it. East Thirty Eighth street seems to end at the 600 block, only to start again at the 2000 block:

https://i.imgur.com/eM7fpSG.jpg

I think that East 38th turned into East 41st street according to a website which lists the changed streets. (no idea why it changed) Both the addresses you have above show houses of the right vintage to have been the right ones. 1292 appears to have originally been a duplex (not sure since it has been "messed with" over the years) It was built in 1912. The property, according to the assessor's office, now has three units. 1279 E. 41st was originally built in 1907 and while there have been some changes, the house is much the same, at least from the front.

oldstuff Apr 19, 2018 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 8158743)
oldstuff, I appreciate the attempt to connect the girls with people living in the area at that time. (and with the Abbot name, no doubt)


SYCAMORE GROVE HIKE, 1917
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/VI7H3R.jpg


Each and every time I look at this photograph I think of the film 'Picnic at Hanging Rock'.


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/xpPfLJ.jpg
https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8043/MtsNSj.gif

https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9404/rFC8FN.gif
giphy

It left a big impression on me....so beautiful yet quite unsettling.

__

when I look at your animated picture I hear the song from Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta "The Pirates of Penzance" where the girls are singing "climbing over rocky mountain"
I was feeling invincible after finding the woman in the picture with no names on it of 6718 Second Avenue and was immediately frustrated that I was not finding at least some of the names of the hiking girls. Phooey!!

Bristolian Apr 19, 2018 8:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Charles (Post 8158784)

As to the Taylor residence (the articles lists BOTH “1279 East Thirty Eighth Street” and “1292 East Thirty Eighth Street”), the address doesn't seem to exist..? Or at least I can't find it. East Thirty Eighth street seems to end at the 600 block, only to start again at the 2000 block:

https://i.imgur.com/eM7fpSG.jpg

In reading about Jefferson High School, I found this on Wikipedia about its history:

"In 1915, the citizen of Los Angeles voted to sell bonds to raise $4,600,000 to build schools in the Los Angeles area. Approximately $500,000 was appropriated to build Jefferson High School on the "Stadium East Grounds" (The Old Coliseum) which held approximately 25,000 people in a circled amphitheater configuration. The "Stadium," as it was known, was the site for hosting and entertaining travelers on the way to both the San Diego and San Francisco world expos in 1915. Numerous rodeos and bicycle races were held at the location."
"The Old Coliseum precedes the "Los Angeles Coliseum built in 1929 that hosted two Olympics. It was the main amphitheater in Los Angeles in the late 1800s."

I had never heard of this and am intrigued. I wasn't able to find anything further including here on NLA. Does anyone have any more information on "The Old Coliseum"?

HossC Apr 19, 2018 9:14 PM

:previous:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolian (Post 8160860)

In reading about Jefferson High School, I found this on Wikipedia about its history:

"In 1915, the citizen of Los Angeles voted to sell bonds to raise $4,600,000 to build schools in the Los Angeles area. Approximately $500,000 was appropriated to build Jefferson High School on the "Stadium East Grounds" (The Old Coliseum) which held approximately 25,000 people in a circled amphitheater configuration. The "Stadium," as it was known, was the site for hosting and entertaining travelers on the way to both the San Diego and San Francisco world expos in 1915. Numerous rodeos and bicycle races were held at the location."
"The Old Coliseum precedes the "Los Angeles Coliseum built in 1929 that hosted two Olympics. It was the main amphitheater in Los Angeles in the late 1800s."

I had never heard of this and am intrigued. I wasn't able to find anything further including here on NLA. Does anyone have any more information on "The Old Coliseum"?

The stadium only appears on the 1914 Baist map (below, right). The area was just the Stephenson Tract in 1910 (below, left). Jefferson High School is there by 1921, and all three maps show the street below as 38th Street.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...dColiseum1.jpg
www.historicmapworks.com/www.historicmapworks.com

odinthor Apr 19, 2018 9:19 PM

The Los Angeles Star published, on December 5, 1857: “The near approach of ‘Merry Christmas,’ has prompted a number of gentlemen of our city, desirous of contributing to the amusement which generally enters into its observance, to perfect the necessary arrangements for a series of races, to commence on the 22d inst., upon the course below town.”

But I don't know the location of "the course below town"! :shrug:

Scott Charles Apr 19, 2018 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristolian (Post 8160860)
In reading about Jefferson High School, I found this on Wikipedia about its history...

I read the Wikipedia article, too. There is some interesting stuff in there.

Quote:

Jefferson High has produced more prominent jazz musicians and composers than any other public or private high school in California.
A really cool bunch of jazz musicians, including people like Dexter Gordon, Sonny Criss, Frank Morgan, Chico Hamilton, Art Farmer, and many more. And singers Ivie Anderson, Etta James, dance choreographer Alvin Ailey, Stymie from Our Gang, etc, etc. A lot of interesting people came from Jefferson.

Jefferson opened in 1916, and was demolished after damage from an earthquake in 1933 (the same earthquake that destroyed the dome of La Grande Station). But prior to the quake, Jefferson High was quite impressive to look at:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...26112_1920.jpg

oldstuff Apr 19, 2018 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 8156543)
Here's the area in a 1928 aerial view. I've arrowed my guess for the photographer's location.

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/z...moreGrove1.jpg
mil.library.ucsb.edu



Comparing the original photo with my aerial above, I'd say it's house #2.

House #2, located at 4910 Oak Terrace Drive, was built in 1910, according to the county assessor. It is a very large house with eight bedrooms and four baths. It has apparently at some point, been an alcohol and drug treatment center. You can't get the googlemobile in a place to see the front but there is one picture of the front (an old one) on a real estate site.

The other house, now directly across from house #2 on Oak Terrace drive was built in 1920 and would not have been there when the pictures of the girls were taken

VictorAtomic Apr 19, 2018 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottyB (Post 7741922)
From the way-back machine....Toluca Lake in its natural state.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/594/33...27ecff01_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/601/32...6e2e9b0f_b.jpg
Dog's been in swimmin'.

Sad that Toluca Lake was never kept up to its original natural state but the taming of the LA river probably dried up many lakes, marshes, and ponds (Although it's kinda greedy that the whole lakeside was sold off for residential). Beautiful pictures of what was, nonetheless.

ethereal_reality Apr 19, 2018 10:58 PM

Olive Tree
 
MYSTERY LOCATION
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/vfyLSy.jpg
Quote:

Originally Posted by odinthor (Post 8160013)
Yes, thanks e_r, my eye went straight to the Olive when I saw the pic, as . . . I have a big big Olive tree in my front yard that I've lived with since I was a li'l odinthor. The Olive in the pic is the one prominent left front, with the V trunk. The one on the right might actually be another Olive, but it looks a little less characteristic (I'm looking at that branch jutting out at upper right, kind of strange-looking for an Olive . . . and yet, on the same right-hand tree, the silhouette of the branches and leaves on the left side of that tree looks very Olive).

Thanks for the help odinthor. :)

I just found out the Broad Museum downtown has a small 'grove' of 100 YEAR OLD olive trees!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/Z4te3w.jpg
pierrelandscape

They're Barouni olive trees originally seeded in the early 20th century in groves in the Shasta Cascade region of Northern California.

The trees at the plaza are described as being in a bosque. from DSRNY

Can you imagine the cost of moving these 100 year old trees to downtown Los Angeles. Wowza!

I am impressed Mr. Broad. :worship:


__

Bristolian Apr 19, 2018 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Charles (Post 8161060)
I read the Wikipedia article, too. There is some interesting stuff in there.


A really cool bunch of jazz musicians, including people like Dexter Gordon, Sonny Criss, Frank Morgan, Chico Hamilton, Art Farmer, and many more. And singers Ivie Anderson, Etta James, dance choreographer Alvin Ailey, Stymie from Our Gang, etc, etc. A lot of interesting people came from Jefferson.

I also noticed the large number of jazz artists among Jefferson's prominent alumni. It can't be a coincidence that the school is within walking distance of what was the Central Avenue jazz scene, right?


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