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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338152)

There aren't rules "against those". There are rules making those more expensive and regulating WHERE they can be done. But nobody says you can't smoke period or you can't eat sugar or drink sugary drinks or whatever.

Oh so those are rules, but not rules? Not sure how I get around that, unless that's the point since I'm being scary to some. Sorry, I wont be scary any more.

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The only consumable we still ban totally are mind-altering drugs and those prohibitions appear on the way out.

What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

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Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338153)

What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

I think I addressed that: Stay home or enjoy yourself outside if you aren't vaccinated but that's close to "it".

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Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9337649)

I have to say I'm really not liking how many people have concluded that any adult who hasn't gotten vaccinated yet is an antivax Trumpist moron, and deserves whatever they get.

Large numbers of blacks and Latinos, along with younger people, still haven't gotten the shot. They will presumably be more persuadable than the Qanon folks.

100. It's easy to blame somebody, but it turns out it's more complex than just looking at a map and saying: "look! I told you so!"

Until it's FDA approved, not even the military can force service members to take a shot. And there's been another setback with J&J's vaccine.

Most of the unvaccinated are young adults.

in other news, Canada reported just 2 deaths today, 282 new cases nationally, active cases fall below 5,000 for the first time since last August 2020.
2 Provinces and 2 territories are now covid free (No new cases in over a week):

Nunavut
Northwest Territories
PEI
New Brunswick (new member)

https://covid19tracker.ca/province.html

Quote:

Summer camps hit with COVID outbreaks -- are schools next?
By HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH, KANTELE FRANKO and LINDSEY TANNER

The U.S. has seen a string of COVID-19 outbreaks tied to summer camps in recent weeks in places such as Texas, Illinois, Florida, Missouri and Kansas, in what some fear could be a preview of the upcoming school year.

In some cases the outbreaks have spread from the camp to the broader community.

The clusters have come as the number of newly confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the U.S. has reversed course, surging more than 60% over the past two weeks from an average of about 12,000 a day to around 19,500, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

The rise in many places has been blamed on too many unvaccinated people and the highly contagious delta variant . . . .

JoAnn Martin, administrator of the public health agency in Pettis County, lamented the difficulty in getting people to take the virus seriously and get vaccinated.

“It has been a challenge since the first case,” she said. “You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot.”

Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University infectious disease specialist, said he isn’t surprised by the outbreaks as camps reopen this year after being closed last summer. He said he had his doubts that some camps “thought through all the implications of camping during COVID.”

Ideally, he said, camps would require vaccinations for adults and for campers who are old enough, and would take other measures such as serving meals in shifts, putting fewer youngsters in the cabins and requiring anyone unvaccinated to wear masks indoors.

In the Houston area, health officials reported more than 130 youths and adults tested positive for the virus in cases connected to a church camp. The pastor of Clear Creek Community Church in League City said the outbreak happened in two waves, first at the camp and then when people returned home in late June . . . .

In Illinois, health officials said 85 teens and adults at a Christian youth camp in mid-June tested positive, including an unvaccinated young adult who was hospitalized, and some people from the camp attended a nearby conference, leading to 11 additional cases.

The Illinois Department of Public Health said all the campers were eligible for the vaccine, but only “a handful” of campers and staff had received it. The camp didn’t check people’s vaccination status or require masks indoors, according to the department.

The health department in Leon County, Florida, which includes Tallahassee, tweeted this month that an increase in cases there also was tied in part to summer camp outbreaks.

And in Kansas, about 50 people have been infected in an outbreak linked to a church summer camp held last month not far from Wichita . . . .

Summer camp outbreaks “certainly could be a precursor” to what happens when youngsters return to classrooms in the fall, said Dr. Michelle Prickett, a pulmonary and critical care specialist at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago. The outcome will depend on vaccination rates and which virus variants are prevalent, she said . . . .

Schaffner said he thinks schools won’t face similar outbreaks because they tend to be more structured and disciplined than camps and because most got used to making adjustments over the past year and a half. But he said the best way to reduce the risk is to get most people vaccinated.

“There are many parts of the country that simply have not grasped this,” he said.

It could be several months before regulators make a decision on authorizing shots for children under 12. Studies on such youngsters are still going on . . . .

https://apnews.com/article/health-co...c4caf531c980dc

"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338166)

"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.

Young people that were asymptomatic and lightly ill with cold like symptoms will tell you: It's just a cold. No big deal. etc.

Remember we've had 100,000,000 Americans infected and recovered from Covid.

Fully vaccinated older people are still freaked out and will act as if it's the Black Plague.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338159)

100. It's easy to blame somebody, but it turns out it's more complex than just looking at a map and saying: "look! I told you so!"

Consider the one country that starts with a C. We wouldn't be able to blame them....are you sure? Humans need blame though, and if we can shift it towards the unvaccinated, all of you will care less about their freedoms. That is just human nature, so don't worry about it.

Quote:

Until it's FDA approved, not even the military can force service members to take a shot. And there's been another setback with J&J's vaccine.

They force people to take shots every day, and if it's not FDA approved they use other methods to get people to vaccinate. Like shame, bullying, ect...

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Most of the unvaccinated are young adults.

Oh...so the whole "they are healthy" argument, well have that with PED.

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Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338153)

Oh so those are rules, but not rules? Not sure how I get around that, unless that's the point since I'm being scary to some. Sorry, I wont be scary any more.

What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

It's not scary, it's just stupid. Government isn't the answer for everything. Freewill and all. If you want to smoke 3 packs a day and then wash them down with a 2 liter of Mountain Dew, that's your right. As is not getting vaccinated. Society just reserves the right to cut you out of participating in certain activities until you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338083)

...calling it a "medical treatment" :worship:. Clever.
However, it's just a "simple prick of the skin" and people are gonna have to do it if they want to go to school, travel, see their favorite band, ect. I never claimed to not say scary things too, so idk.

That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338175)

In article after article medical professionals who are themselves young talk about how they are now caring for other young people in hospitals and most of those are unvaccinated. Cases are doubling and are now at 20,000 per day. And yet there is denial.

And none of this counts what we don't know about long term consequences.

Just get a shot if you haven't and if you have accept that there was good reason.

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Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338178)

They force people to take shots every day, and if it's not FDA approved they use other methods to get people to vaccinate. Like shame, bullying, ect...

They force people to take shots that are FDA approved.

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The Navy reported a 77 percent vaccination rate for active-duty sailors, while 70 percent of troops in the Army are vaccinated, as are 61 percent in the Air Force and 58 percent in the Marine Corps.

However, thousands of military members have still not gotten the vaccine.

The vaccines are under an emergency use authorization by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Therefore, the Pentagon cannot legally require that all military members get the vaccine, although Biden could grant an exception to this rule.

https://news.yahoo.com/why-hasnt-fda...164853572.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338186)

And how many of those young people are dying? The statistics aren't lying. Hospitals aren't overwhelmed. That was the entire point of "flattening the curve". We have vaccines and therapeutics and fortunately, our most vulnerable are getting the jab!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9338183)

That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

The restrictions on that are properly getting tighter. In many of those states "personal belief" no longer works and even religion doesn't in some if you are not a member of an organized religion that has a dogma concerning vaccination which is a very limited number like Christian Science.

Vaccination Rates Rise In California After Personal Belief Exemptions Curbed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338192)

The issue about hospitals being overwhelmed was pre-vaccination. Now it's a matter of deaths and serious illness pure and simple as it is with most diseases. The possibility of American hospitals being overhwhelmed was almost unique to covid before there were vaccinations but we still enforce other public health rules concerning diseases that have never overwhelmed the system.

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Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338179)

The gov gave us the vaccine, and without that it would be worse. Although, I got ten bucks that says 3 or 4 people disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9338183)

That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

I know that....am I gonna have to do that with every attempt at "gotcha"? Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338189)

They force people to take shots that are FDA approved.

I know that. As I said, they will find other ways to make people do it. The day that the FDA does approve it, only those with religious exemptions can get away with not having it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338194)

I don't think that's true, as of this year the vast majority of states allow for religious and personal belief exemptions. Of course CA and NY are exceptions.

That being said I am pro vaccination personally and believe society should promote most vaccines. Requiring it is scary to me. Glad I don't live in a place the forces it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338203)

I know that. As I said, they will find other ways to make people do it. The day that the FDA does approve it, only those with religious exemptions can get away with not having it.

They found a way that 58% of marines are vaccinated! That's not much better than the overall public.

Once it's FDA approved 100% will be vaccinated in a matter of days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338203)

The gov gave us the vaccine, and without that it would be worse. Although, I got ten bucks that says 3 or 4 people disagree.

Yes, the government did facilitate vaccine but it's still not their place to hold our hands and make people get it. Even China has banned compulsory vaccinations so you're in uncharted territory thinking our government should.

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Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338133)

That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

And no such case exists now, or ever, with adult vaccines.

But the anti-vax crowd will claim people are "forcing" such behavior, when there's no such thing. But employers, airlines, universities, and many, many services will require evidence of vax, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in a civilized society.

And I'd argue that requirements for children are borderline force. You cannot enroll your kids in probably 99% of public and private schools absent the standard childhood vax. And many states have strict rules re. home schooling. And it's illegal to not have your kid in formal education in most states, between first grade and age 16. So requiring vaccines is borderline force, because you'd generally be breaking state laws re. kids education by refusing to vax. But I support such requirements 1000%.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9338265)

And no such case exists now, or ever, with adult vaccines.

But the anti-vax crowd will claim people are "forcing" such behavior, when there's no such thing. But employers, airlines, universities, and many, many services will require evidence of vax, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in a civilized society.

And I'd argue that requirements for children are borderline force. You cannot enroll your kids in probably 99% of public and private schools absent the standard childhood vax. And many states have strict rules re. home schooling. And it's illegal to not have your kid in formal education in most states, between first grade and age 16. So requiring vaccines is borderline force, because you'd generally be breaking state laws re. kids education by refusing to vax. But I support such requirements 1000%.

But several here have expressed support for just that. No, it doesn't exist now and it doesn't exist for children either...hence the anti-vax lunacy and the jump in childhood diseases.

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