Its gonna take a long time for this entire project to be completed.

Apparently, alderman Reilly said that there's gonna be a wait between the two-towers for a study to be done to determine the impact the first tower had on traffic before putting up the second building. so if things don't go very well traffic-wise, then we could see changes for the second tower better or worse.

So really, this project including dusable park won't be done until at least 2029 without changes to the current proposal.

This is if everything goes to plan:
2021-Break Ground on first tower
2024-First tower completed
2024/2025-Traffic Study
2025-Traffic Study Review
2025/2026-Second Tower Breaks ground without any changes
2029/2030-Second Tower completed along with dusable park

The renderings may look nice, but I think we should all be aware the metal paneling is unlikely to turn out nearly as crisp as these pictures imply... My prediction is by the time they start building and continuing to VE, the metal paneling will be extremely cheap stuff, although I suppose that will fit quite well in to Streeterville, no?

WOW, if i were a developer not so sure i would want that hanging over my head that they will have conditions for tower 2.

^ don't worry. Reilly won't stop them from building the 2nd tower, this is just his way of ensuring that Related continues to generously donate to his reelection campaign fund for years to come.

I had no idea this project was supposed to take 10 years, that'd be okay if it were 2000 feet tall (or hell even 1600 feet tall), but man, that just adds weight to the intense disappointment.

Traffic study aside (which would be after Tower 1 is complete it seems) why would such relatively small buildings take so long to complete? The f'ing Empire State Building was build in a third of the time nearly a century ago.

That is an absurd time table for this project. Are they really causing such absurd time tables due to traffic considerations? Seems like the NIMBYS have really put a whip to this project.

2024/2025-Traffic Study
2025-Traffic Study Review ...

What a waste. Both towers should rise IMO at the same time. Traffic studies are just delays.

Tower 1 isn't going to cause a carmageddon traffic problem. Related knows that and Reilly knows that. Chances are that a good percentage of units in the building will end up being occupied only sometimes - maybe as second homes/pied-a-terres, maybe as company-owned units for housing guests.

The people who do live here, either full-time or part-time, will likely walk a lot, like other downtown residents... 1/4 mi to Target, 1/2 mi to Whole Foods, Mariano's or Bockwinkels. Rail transit is not convenient at all, so expect a lot of Uber/Lyft trips or private car trips... but the building is set up to load passengers from Lake Shore Drive and LSD only, so it wouldn't affect the neighborhood one bit.

I tell you with Reilly in the details this whole project is becoming more speculative each day.It seems like everytime you settle in to the adjustments, another shoe drops. With his micro-managing of 400 N. Lake Shore Drive its becoming more of a journey to nowhere than a done deal. I believe if Related didn't have so much invested, time/land they would probably be tempted to walk away from this project. Yes surely I may be overreacting as I sometime do but it seems this development is so far from the enthusiasm it first gendered.

Clearly the alderman has done a lot to mute the potential of this site as far as this project is concerned. Aldermen simply should not have this much power.

+1 to all of that, what are the odds they just cancel this project and sell the land to someone else who would likely build something better?

Im ok with one tower only as im sure the second will be a total redesign!

What's to say the alderman won't stomp all over the next developer and their proposal?

Pretty bummed about the lack of terracotta, epically after someone at Related went on the record in March with Curbed Chicago (which is apparently closed indefinitely?) and said that it was still a “feature element” of the facade. Boo.

Naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

http://images.skyscrapercenter.com/b...l-lindsey1.jpg
_

Reilly did them a huge solid by killing the hotel component. Besides the lousy location at the end of a cul-de-sac the impact of COVID is making it nearly impossible to secure loans for hotel construction. It's also looking like it'll be a few years before tourism and hospitality recover so building yet another hotel in a well-supplied city wouldn't be a good idea.

Oh please. Fuck Reilly. What he did wasn't any favor.

At the end of a cup-de-sac that's attached to the riverwalk and convenient to Michigan Avenue and Navy Pier.

With a staggered construction timeline Reilly could always drop dead between now and then and things could change.

I meant to post this earlier...


If any of you want to send an email to the Chicago Plan Commission to voice support/opinion/objection/or any other feelings or ideas, you have until 10AM, Wednesday May 20th... so tomorrow morning.

Emails can be sent here: cpc@cityofchicago.org

This Brendan Reilly fella seems like an ahole.

Does he normally stifle progress and growth? I thought Chicago was pro development. Seem's like this Reilly fella is messing things up, along with this City Council.

From an outsiders perspective, its a shame that politicians have so much control over development sites or parcels. I thought Chicago was a little lax on that front. Making it tough for Related.

He's trying to keep his NIMBY constituents happy, to the detriment of the city as a whole. He's notorious for this anti development behavior. His NIMBY voters want to live in one of the largest, most developed, most prosperous urban cores in the world - but they don't want it to change too much lest their window views may be obscured.

It's such a shame, he did have a say in approving Tribune though didn't he? I wonder why that wasn't as much of a problem.

I wonder if after building the first tower of this development they'll want to reconsider and build something taller and more iconic on the second site, with such a long timetable you'd think there's be some hope. I doubt it'll happen but just a thought because 10 years of waiting for 2 buildings that aren't even that tall by Chicago standards is just so beyond disappointing. :hell:

I take a more charitable view, I think Reilly's a pragmatist. He actually does a good job in most cases balancing the demands of his constituents with the need for development, and he actually tries to improve projects with the help of certain neighborhood groups like SOAR. He has certainly not prevented downtown from booming during his tenure in office.

He's approved Vista and the Tribune Tower 2, so he's not even against supertalls necessarily. And he's not one of these new socialist aldermen who shut down projects simply because they hate the idea that a developer might earn a profit.

The city currently has, and has in the past, had far worse aldermen for development. Michele Smith, Tom Tunney, Helen Schiller, Bob Fioretti, etc. Real NIMBY panderers. On the other hand, we have aldermen like Walter Burnett or (formerly) Danny Solis who rubber-stamp everything in their little slice of downtown, because they're not accountable... their voters live miles away in low-income, minority neighborhoods. These guys have no principles for evaluating new projects, so they're not likely to push for better design, less parking, etc. Most of the recent projects in South Loop have been crap (Imprint, AMLI, 1000 S Clark, Alta, etc). The review process for these projects boils down to "does it have enough parking? developer should double the parking, just to be sure." West Loop is better, but only because Landmarks reviews many of the designs for compatibility.

Well said. I would also add that the previous administrations had leaders who were more visionary and were more pro-active toward promoting world class developments that enhanced the image of Chicago world wide. They imposed their will and influence over that of individual aldermen on projects they were passionate about.I don't believe Daley or Rahm Emanuel would have been silent while a project as prominent location-wise as 400 N. Lake Shore Drive is being run through the gauntlet. Even L.A.is willing to put the Times Mirror project on hold until the developer is allowed to build something more "bold'. Hopefully the Lightfoot administration will become more involved in future developments ,but I believe the die is cast on 400 N.Lake Shore Drive.

The fact that this proposal for Related went down the way it did is proof enough to me that Reilly does not deserve a charitable view. And this is not the first project to suffer from being in his district. Has he "allowed" some other larger projects to go less unscathed? Sure, ok. In the end, aldermen should not have this amount of authority to begin with. It should be left up to a city/urban planning council, one that has very staunch checks and balances, so the city can grow in a way that is beneficial to all inhabitants and visitors, and not just catering to people who live within a local vicinity.

lol. Beautiful photo of a beautiful building. But that's not even close to the same proportions stone to glass as 400 LSD

Use your head. We're on a tipping point like the one that preceded the GFC during which the mortgage collapse froze construction of condo buildings. This pandemic is going to have the same effect on hotels among other industries. Pushing this as a hotel risks a repeat of the Waterview if we're lucky or, in case you missed it, the giant FUCKING HOLE, in this middle of this site.

Which is assuming the damage to the industry is just from the pandemic and there hasn't been a massive amount of fraud in CMBS (which is possible if the recent whistleblower complaint against commercial & hotel lenders holds water).



The River Esplanade you mean since the Riverwalk is along the south bank. It's also not conveniently attached with the three flights of stairs to take to cross the river at Columbus (and back down again) nor is it accessible since there are no elevators. In terms of location vis a vie Michigan Avenue it's about as proximate as LaSalle (and I've never heard of that road being "conveniently" located near Michigan) only the walk West to Michigan is a lot less interesting than the one east from Lasalle...mostly along bland streets with parking podiums filled with "For Lease" retail spaces. A half mile walk, particularly the last half or so which features gated townhomes on one side and a loading dock on the other, is a big ask for tourists. Particularly when they aren't starved for choices. Access to Navy Pier likewise suffers...it isn't direct or inviting and there's plenty of other hotels in more active locations with direct, even line of sight, access.



The staggered timeline reduces Related's risk and lets them re-evaluate uses before starting the second tower. With the absurdly drawn out construction they are likely taking this slow to see if they're able to build the second tower as a Condo building...or even convert the first.

The river esplanade on the north bank has a pedestrian underpass at river level beneath the columbus bridge. There's no need to go up and down any stairs to get past Columbus at river level.

I agree, but within the system we have I think Reilly's been pretty fair and acted like the adult in the room, even when NIMBY wailing reaches a fever pitch.

Do you think the wealthy voters of the 42nd Ward would ever elect somebody who is MORE favorable to development than Reilly? Even if they did, would they keep him in office more than one term? Politicians have to balance the demands of their constituents with the needs of the city overall, especially when those two things are in conflict.

Natarus preceded Reilly and he was seen as development-friendly, but he did the exact same kind of politicking to keep everyone in line. He also had a big advantage since he was a machine politician, so he got plenty of "free" votes without having to seriously campaign. And he didn't do jack-squat for urban design, he is one big reason why River North is saddled with so many hideous parking podiums.

IMO Reilly is really the best case scenario for a wealthy, urban ward... even if I strongly disagree with him on a handful of issues like bikes on the riverwalk.

Found some public comments about the current proposal

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/.../400_n_lsd.pdf

:previous: Best quote, +1 Million









.

This is amazing. :)

We should all send letters like this one!!!

Upset I missed the letter deadline, as I definitely would have sent one (especially about the terracotta and height of course).

Overall this is better than a blue box, but nothing too special anymore. The LSE parcel across the river might be much more impressive at 950ft and a more unique design. Time will tell.

I heard the height 675' twice during the presentation...

The docs says 765', so I don't know if it was misspeak or what...

APPROVED!

It has been passed

It was probably a mistake but the way this project is going who knows...

Meh...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/f2b9...itemid=9662118

When is the first tower suppose to start again?

False, the Reliance building is famous for pushing the boundaries of glass coverage in it's day. The building is over 80% glass. Had the fortune to have a friend pick the hotel there for her wedding block. From inside you may as well be in a Mies building, it's incredible. You are in a 19th century structure and the entire wall of your room is glass.

I would have still been excited considering everything that's going on in the world until I saw that only the first tower will be built, then they'll do another traffic study, then possibly approve the second. Went from tallest building in the western hemisphere to potentially just another OBP.

The hype of this parcel 13 years ago to now is just sad. Related was ready to put up some incredible buildings and now here's where we're at.

^Indeed. The 1442 ft Tribune Tower would have been much better for this site.

The latest version does look pretty good up close, but at a meager 875 ft it's hardly visible from far away.

The horizontal elements between floors and windows on 400 N look to be approximately 6 inches. Reliance is easily three times that. They don't compare with regards to visual affect from the terra cotta. In Reliance it is the driving force.

Agreed, it's too bad, just not as big a deal, imo.

This new tower is gorgeous. If this were rising in Charlotte, Dallas, or Atlanta, they'd have huge woodies for it.

As long as that hole disappears and we get DuSable Park, I'm happy. :cheers:

It's definitely better than a hole, but whenever I look at a rendering of the Spire and what could've been it's pretty inexcusable that this is what they came up with. These two buildings stacked on top of each other wouldn't even get that close to the spire and neither even reaches halfway.

I wonder if any of the complaints about how this is lame got through to them and in the enormous time table they have will consider some changes. I wouldn't bank on it but they should.


But oh well, guess we'll wait a decade for two buildings that won't even make top 50 in the USA (or 500 globally) by that time.

Hopefully the time-table can be modified. This should rise to meet the demand all at once. Surely there is good demand if they price units wisely. I guess the city doesn't like its nice tax revenue. Quicker these rise, more tax the city can collect. A walk able area and its proxies, no need for traffic studies. The clientele attracted are folks working within the CBD. Folks that can afford the payments and aren't driving minivans with baby on board stickers that live 25 miles away from the core.

of course this is disappointing compared to what the spire and even the first proposal could have been. At then end of the day though these towers are quite stunning, no doubt the most elegant and unique 800 footer in Chicago if not the country. I'd be satisfied if they are built as is.

eh i dont know, there's a lot of those. A lot of good ones. This is simply okay, which isn't the standard Chicago architecture should be held to.

I gotta fully disagree with you on that score.

This is light years beyond "simply okay" IMO.

https://a4.pbase.com/o12/06/102706/1...pEDlhbI.g9.JPG

I’d like to hear your justification for calling this “okay” for a 800 footer. I’d say it’s pretty spectacular for its unique footprint, setbacks and massing, and implementing Chicago school bay windows. It also does a good job of maximizing lake views by having two faces overlook the lake instead of one. Not sure what more to ask for here.

For now i'll bite my tongue and wait for the final product. I'm probably still not over the alterations.