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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

homebucket Mar 30, 2020 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qubert (Post 8879021)
@ Pedestrian:

Since I am an essential worker that rides the NY subway everyday, would this getup protect me:

Plastic trash bag wrapped around my face below the eyes with the bottom open for air. Plastic poncho over myself with the face bag inside the poncho. I've gotten air through this method but my entire body below the eyes is a wall of plastic. Would I be safe?

I'd go with a N95 mask, gloves, and a pair of goggles, or some type of plastic face shield.

And change into a new set of clothes every day.

homebucket Mar 30, 2020 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8878505)
I moved my auto rental reservation to return back a week to early May. We'll see how things are going by then. Actually, I'd rather be hiding in my SF apartment but I'm terrified of having to use an elevator, potentially closed in a box with someone else for a couple minutes. If they cough during the ride I might pass out. I've bought N95 masks, latex and vinyl gloves, goggles, all sorts of PPE, and ordered isopropyl alcohol and aloe to make hand sanitizer, all for if I go back.

I'd delay your return to SF as long as possible. Currently, there are 340 (known) cases in SF. I'm assuming the numbers are much lower where you are in AZ.

sopas ej Mar 30, 2020 7:52 PM

Since the company I work for is considered an essential business, today my employer gave me and my co-workers copies of a letter on company letterhead addressed to "Local, State and Federal Law Enforcement and Government Agencies" stating that we are an essential business, yada yada yada, and we're supposed to show it to law enforcement just in case we get pulled over and asked why we're out and about, in case rules in California get stricter and we're stopped while on our way to/from work.

Yuri Mar 30, 2020 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8878911)
Sheesh, things seem to be so much worse down south in the US. It may be unavoidable, but I hope things don't get that bad here. Good luck to you all. On a side note, why is the death rate so different in various developed countries? I suppose access to health care, health care standards, and health care protocols come into play. Some countries like Italy have moved beyond the ability to provide adequate care due to the sheer numbers infected relative to the size of their health care system. The numbers for the G7 + Australia are as follows.

Death rates are not comparable at all. Italy might have been as much as 1 million people infected right now. They've only been testing people admitted in hospitals which is understandable as their system is completely overwhelmed.

Anedoctatly, the daughter of a coworker of mine, living in a town between Milan and Turin, got a severe flu (or covid19, she'll never knows) that left her in bed for a whole week. When she tried to look for assistance on ER, on the very beginning of the outbreak, she was told to go back home immediately. It was a severe case, with all the symptoms, that was not even got the chance to be registered/tested.

chris08876 Mar 30, 2020 8:04 PM

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...fc247993e.jpeg

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2020 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 8878996)
Death is being defined differently in different countries. There is no uniform methodology to testing, which is why it's hard to apply the data from other countries to other countries.



https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...n-be-deceiving

As your post described it, it seems to me it could only exagerate the figures as they are. In the US, anyway, the official cause of death is determined on clinical grounds until and unless there is an autopsy resulting in a pathologic diagnosis. COVID-19, as I said before, is fairly easy to diagnose on clinical grounds and I doubt many patients with it are dying with a cause of death listed as something else. On the contrary, these days a few flu patients might be getting called COVID but not many since we have a quick test for the flu and flu season is waning.

On the other hand, the places with an early onset of the epidemic like China and Italy might have under-reported deaths at first . . . until the doctors there realized what they were dealing with.

So if anything, the death rates in the late comers like the US, Germany et al might be slightly higher than they should be and those in the first-affected slightly lower.

I keep being amazed at the media fixation on testing. Doctors like having objective data to confirm what they are already pretty certain about, but few of them really need a coronavirus test on patients at risk of death to know what is the problem. It's the person with few or no symtpoms who needs the most to be tested because they might have a common cold or even an allergy.

isaidso Mar 30, 2020 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879042)
Death rates are not comparable at all. Italy might have been as much as 1 million people infected right now. They've only been testing people admitted in hospitals which is understandable as their system is completely overwhelmed.

The number of cases relates to those that come back with a positive result while deaths counted would also be those who have received a positive result. No figures in that table relate to infected people that we don't know about. If there are 1 million people infected in Italy it doesn't show up in that table at all.

iheartthed Mar 30, 2020 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879042)
Anedoctatly, the daughter of a coworker of mine, living in a town between Milan and Turin, got a severe flu (or covid19, she'll never knows) that left her in bed for a whole week. When she tried to look for assistance on ER, on the very beginning of the outbreak, she was told to go back home immediately. It was a severe case, with all the symptoms, that was not even got the chance to be registered/tested.

A similar thing happened to my friend in NYC. She definitely had COVID-19, and even had contact with someone known to have tested positive. She went to the hospital one night because she was having trouble breathing but was not tested because they didn't consider her case to be severe.

Yuri Mar 30, 2020 8:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8879062)
The number of cases relates to those that come back with a positive result while deaths counted would also be those who've also been diagnosed with a positive result.

No figures in that table refer to people undiagnosed that we don't know about.

I'm aware of it, but the thing is Italy is barely testing, therefore they have hundreds of thousands of unknown positives, which would make their death rate not being so different from other places.

Moreover, I read somewhere today Germany is not testing people who died without being previously diagnosed, so their Covid19 deaths might be a bit underreported.

isaidso Mar 30, 2020 8:25 PM

I get what you're saying. I'm saying that those unknown positives don't show up in that 10,779 death figure for Italy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8878990)
It's New York. Blame them. They account for half our numbers.

Pointing blame is off base not to mention unconstructive and pointless. The first big cluster could have happened anywhere. All it took was one infected person who came into contact with a ton of people very early on before the alarm bells went off. It could easily have been Houston instead.

Almost half of our cases are in Quebec. Quebec needs our help and support.... as does New York state.

Handro Mar 30, 2020 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879068)
I'm aware of it, but the thing is Italy is barely testing, therefore they have hundreds of thousands of unknown positives, which would make their death rate not being so different from other places.

Moreover, I read somewhere today Germany is not testing people who died without being previously diagnosed, so their Covid19 deaths might be a bit underreported.

Italy has actually been testing aggressively since the end of February, which is why they seemingly had the most cases in the world for so long. I believe they are near among the world leaders for tests per million residents along with South Korea.

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2020 8:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879068)
I'm aware of it, but the thing is Italy is barely testing, therefore they have hundreds of thousands of unknown positives, which would make their death rate not being so different from other places.

Moreover, I read somewhere today Germany is not testing people who died without being previously dignosted, so their Covid19 deaths might be a bit underreported.

I'm not aware of a serologic test being widely used anywhere (except possibly China and who really knows what's going on there?). It's a widely-used, random serologic test you would really need to determine the total numbers in the population who have at any time been infected with the coronavirus. The PCR test, even if widely used, just tells you who is infected now and leaves out the recovered. In places affected earliest like China and Italy, there might be many recovered.

Yuri Mar 30, 2020 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handro (Post 8879076)
Italy has actually been testing aggressively since the end of February, which is why they seemingly had the most cases in the world for so long.

They are testing agressively because they have already many severe cases, and they have many severe cases because they already have many mild cases that never got the chance to be tested.

I guess only the US, Germany and South Korea, relatively speaking, are testing ahead.

iheartthed Mar 30, 2020 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8879074)
Pointing blame is off base not to mention unconstructive and pointless. The first big cluster could have happened anywhere. All it took was one infected person who came into contact with a ton of people very early on before the alarm bells went off. It could easily have been Houston instead.

Almost half of our cases are in Quebec. Quebec needs our help and support.... as does New York state.

Right. And the first big known cluster in the U.S. was in Washington State.

Handro Mar 30, 2020 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879082)
They are testing agressively because they have already many severe cases, and they have many severe cases because they already have many mild cases that never got the chance to be tested.

I guess only the US, Germany and South Korea, relatively speaking, are testing ahead.

They have been testing aggressively since mid-February, long before other European nations were seeing cases (because they weren't testing) and around the same time American leaders were calling coronavirus a political hoax.

dc_denizen Mar 30, 2020 8:32 PM

is the hasidic community also shut down in Brooklyn?

Pedestrian Mar 30, 2020 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 8879068)
I'm aware of it, but the thing is Italy is barely testing, therefore they have hundreds of thousands of unknown positives, which would make their death rate not being so different from other places.

Moreover, I read somewhere today Germany is not testing people who died without being previously diagnosed, so their Covid19 deaths might be a bit underreported.

Quote:

Coronavirus tests per million inhabitants in European countries – daily update
Autor Natalia Pazura | EURACTIV.pl 0:23 (updated: 0:24)

Here is the ranking of countries from the highest to the lowest number of tests per capita. We highlight the EU member states. We report the number of tests per million people for the countries that have officially shared the number of tests. The given values are approximate. The Faroe Islands are a dependent territory of Denmark, but they do not belong to the EU.

������������ Faroe Islands – 73 787 / 1 milion people (total of 3 637 tests, 49 290 people in Faroe Islands)

������������ Iceland – 42 538 / 1 milion people (total of 15,5 thou. tests, 364 260 people in Iceland)

������������ Norway – 11 410 tests / 1 million people – 61.2 thou. tests in total

������������ Slovenia – 8 224 tests / 1 million people – 17 000 tests in total (*as of March 20)

������������ Estonia – 7 829 tests / 1 million people – 10 400 tests in total

������������ Spain – 7 715 tests / 1 million people – 360 000 tests in total

������������ Germany – 5 837 tests / 1 million people – 483 300 tests in total

������������ Austria – 5 264 tests / 1 million people – 46 441 tests in total

������������ Czech Republic – 3 821 tests / 1 million people – 40 700 tests in total

������������ Denmark – 3 604 tests / 1 million people – 20 198 tests in total

������������ Finland – 3 265 tests / 1 million people – 18 000 tests in total

������������ Lithuania – 2 794 tests / 1 million people – 8 424 tests in total

������������ Sweden – 2 525 tests / 1 million people – 24 000 tests in total

������������Belarus – 2 419 tests / 1 million people – 23 000 tests in total (*as of 25 March)

������������ United Kingdom – 1922 tests / 1 million people – 127 737 tests in total

������������ Belgium – 1 754 tests / 1 million people – 20 000 tests in total

������������ Croatia – 1 458 tests / 1 million people – 5 900 tests in total

������������ Hungary – 1 360 tests / 1 million people – 13 301 tests in total

������������ Slovakia – 1 250 tests / 1 million people – 6 817 tests in total

������������ Poland – 1 126 tests / 1 million people – 42 783 tests in total (*as of March 30)

������������ Russia – 1 079 tests / 1 million people – 156 000 tests in total (*status as of March 21)

������������ France – 896 tests / 1 million people – 60 000 tests in total

������������ Turkey – 809 tests / 1 million people – 65 400 tests in total

������������ Romania – 645 tests / 1 million people – 12 600 tests in total (*as of March 21)

������������ Ukraine – 54 tests / 1 million people – 2264 tests in total
https://www.euractiv.pl/section/bezp...-daily-update/

It's very hard to find current test numbers for Italy but I did find this:

Quote:

As of March 28, the UK had tested 113,777 people. Spain and Italy are also not testing anywhere near as much.

https://www.businessinsider.com/germ...lthcare-2020-3

As to the difference between Germany and Italy, I also found this (which makes sense to me, along with the Italina healthcare system being totally overwhelmed) as the main reason for the difference:

Quote:

The average age of a German infected with coronavirus is 46, whereas in Italy it is 63, according to Wired.

Older people are far more likely to die from the coronavirus, and most deaths occur in those with preexisting health conditions, which are more common in older people.

80% of all people infected in Germany are younger than 60, the Robert Koch Institute said on Monday, indicating that the outbreak hasn't yet taken hold in older people, where the risk of death is much higher.

In Spain the number of affected over-60s is around 50%.
https://www.businessinsider.com/germ...lthcare-2020-3

By contrast the US has now done about 735,000 tests which, because of our large population, is still only about 2250/million. That's much more than any European country in total but only about half what Germany has done per million people (and slightly more than the UK).

JManc Mar 30, 2020 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8879074)
Pointing blame is off base not to mention unconstructive and pointless. The first big cluster could have happened anywhere. All it took was one infected person who came into contact with a ton of people very early on before the alarm bells went off. It could easily have been Houston instead.

Almost half of our cases are in Quebec. Quebec needs our help and support.... as does New York state.

I'm from New York, I was being factitious. I have relatives who are 65+ with some health issues who easily be susceptible to this virus. I follow more about what's going on there than I do here. The fact remains that New York state's numbers skew the US's overall numbers because the sky high infection rate in Westchester County, Long Island and NYC proper.

As for Houston, there are about a thousand cases here and rising exponentially with someone dying in my neighborhood a few days ago.

dc_denizen Mar 30, 2020 8:57 PM

its in montreal, its in houston...nyc was hit earlier due to high population density, but it'll show up in other major cities v soon.

and a lot harder to stay inside when you're in an apartment or highrise in the suburbs at least you've got a yard..

mhays Mar 30, 2020 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8879084)
Right. And the first big known cluster in the U.S. was in Washington State.

Washington state has acted more responsibly than most, and has lately fallen down the list on daily death counts.


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