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-   -   CHICAGO | One Central (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239273)

r18tdi Nov 10, 2021 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pimp (Post 9447076)
This will fall apart if tax money isn't involved. This project will never happen!

Kinda like Hudson Yards in NY

The Pimp Nov 10, 2021 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 9447171)
Kinda like Hudson Yards in NY

This is NOT Hudson Yards. Ridiculous comparison.

Mr Downtown Nov 11, 2021 3:14 AM

Dunn doesn't have a site. He only has air rights. If the state doesn't build him a platform, he's got no place to put a casino.

gandalf612 Nov 14, 2021 3:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pimp (Post 9447298)
This is NOT Hudson Yards. Ridiculous comparison.

How is it different exactly? Projects built over active tracks with a transit component only possible through taxpayer funding.

ardecila Nov 15, 2021 3:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gandalf612 (Post 9450469)
How is it different exactly? Projects built over active tracks with a transit component only possible through taxpayer funding.

Let's not conflate Hudson Yards, the Related development over the MTA railyards, with Hudson Yards, the neighborhood on the West Side of Manhattan. Most of NYC's taxpayer investments in this area (like the 7 train extension, Bella Abzug Park, High Line, etc) benefit the neighborhood at large. Many developers are taking advantage of the city's investments in that area, not just Related. That won't happen in the South Loop, because the area around One Central is already built-up with townhouses and condos that will be there long after I'm dead and buried.

Also, Hudson Yards is 2 blocks away from the busiest train station in the Western Hemisphere. It's simply good planning for the city to build out further infrastructure that allows a big, dense office district there within walking distance of the city's biggest commuter and intercity train station. The Chicago equivalent would be something like the Old Post Office or the deck plaza at River Point.

Lastly, the city investment in Hudson Yards (the Related development, benefiting only Related) is $2.2 billion. Dunn is asking for almost four times that amount at One Central.

The Pimp Nov 15, 2021 1:18 PM

[QUOTE=ardecila;9451028]Let's not conflate Hudson Yards, the Related development over the MTA railyards, with Hudson Yards, the neighborhood on the West Side of Manhattan. Most of NYC's taxpayer investments in this area (like the 7 train extension, Bella Abzug Park, High Line, etc) benefit the neighborhood at large. Many developers are taking advantage of the city's investments in that area, not just Related. That won't happen in the South Loop, because the area around One Central is already built-up with townhouses and condos that will be there long after I'm dead and buried.

Also, Hudson Yards is 2 blocks away from the busiest train station in the Western Hemisphere. It's simply good planning for the city to build out further infrastructure that allows a big, dense office district there within walking distance of the city's biggest commuter and intercity train station. The Chicago equivalent would be something like the Old Post Office or the deck plaza at River Point.

Lastly, the city investment in Hudson Yards (the Related development, benefiting only Related) is $2.2 billion. Dunn is asking for almost four times that amount at One Central.[/QUOTE

You beat me to the punch. Excellent answer.

jpIllInoIs Nov 15, 2021 2:12 PM

[QUOTE=The Pimp;9451135]
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9451028)
Let's not conflate Hudson Yards, the Related development over the MTA railyards, with Hudson Yards, the neighborhood on the West Side of Manhattan. Most of NYC's taxpayer investments in this area (like the 7 train extension, Bella Abzug Park, High Line, etc) benefit the neighborhood at large. Many developers are taking advantage of the city's investments in that area, not just Related. That won't happen in the South Loop, because the area around One Central is already built-up with townhouses and condos that will be there long after I'm dead and buried.

Also, Hudson Yards is 2 blocks away from the busiest train station in the Western Hemisphere. It's simply good planning for the city to build out further infrastructure that allows a big, dense office district there within walking distance of the city's biggest commuter and intercity train station. The Chicago equivalent would be something like the Old Post Office or the deck plaza at River Point.

Lastly, the city investment in Hudson Yards (the Related development, benefiting only Related) is $2.2 billion. Dunn is asking for almost four times that amount at One Central.[/QUOTE

You beat me to the punch. Excellent answer.

And the public pork for One Central is linked to appeasing Another corporate welfare entity in The Bears. And we haven't seen the estimate on the cta rail extensions required for this project. The public welfare being sought is mainly for the decking and roads and utilities. And as if any more nails are needed for this coffin.... It is going to be a Casino and we now have many superior options for that project.

Zapatan Nov 21, 2021 3:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9451028)
Lastly, the city investment in Hudson Yards (the Related development, benefiting only Related) is $2.2 billion. Dunn is asking for almost four times that amount at One Central.

That's crazy, at the end of the day it would be nice to see a project like this come to fruition but just at a much smaller, more realistic scale. Instead of a handful of massive skyscrapers maybe just one or two then a few high-rises to accompany them, a budget of a billion or so may suffice.

Randomguy34 Mar 27, 2022 5:15 PM

On Hard Rock Chicago's website, they said there will also be housing and job investments on the South Side. Looks like some of the locations for investments would be on 71st St, US Steel, and Pullman


VKChaz Mar 27, 2022 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 9580542)
On Hard Rock Chicago's website, they said there will also be housing and job investments on the South Side. Looks like some of the locations for investments would be on 71st St, US Steel, and Pullman

This is the kind of thing their SouthSideWorks Economic Opportunity project presentation describes.

https://www.onecentralchicago.com/

But am not clear how this is supposed to work:

"Leverage investment at ONE Central to create a gateway to a
broader Illinois growth corridor to the South of Chicago’s Central Area"

rivernorthlurker Mar 27, 2022 7:45 PM

The figure I've seen quotes is $6.5 billion over 20 years. Not sure the terms but discounted to present value dollars it's probably less but still massive and some of it unnecessary. There will definitely be some serious economic impact over that 20 years as well including taxes on property and entertainment/hospitality/vendors, so there's certainly some public price tag that makes 'sense' and could theoretically be net positive tax dollar wise. It's a deal that I think can be done with multiple parties co-operating, but a massive ask in a city and state not exactly known for it's prowess for honesty and deal-making.

I like to think the success of the Riverwalk and it's financing can serve as a good example although it was one on a smaller scale. The Riverwalk took a loooong time to coordinate and has been a huge success. My understanding is that the bonds that were sold to fund some of it are being paid off by a fraction of revenue from the vendors there - and it's coming in higher than expected. I would think/hope that that a combination of retail/hospitality/vendor/dining/bars with a special surcharge for the 'entertainment district' modeled after the Riverwalk could be a way to get some of the financing done. Does anyone know about if some surcharge like this on entertainment district revenue has been discussed,?

I think an entertainment district like 1Central is a megaproject that could garner the city national/international attention if done right on par with the success of Millenium Park.

Mr Downtown Mar 27, 2022 9:27 PM

So if the upfront construction will surely be paid off by the rents . . . then just go talk to a REIT or pension fund or Saudi prince. In an era of near-zero borrowing cost, why is any public financing needed?

Randomguy34 Jul 14, 2022 1:53 AM

Somehow, this project still lives. Bob Dunn is holding another meeting, this time hosted by state rep Lamont J. Robinson, at 1474 S. Michigan Ave. Doors open at 6p, with the meeting going from 6:30-8pm.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...HA&oe=62D52D8B
https://www.facebook.com/PDNAChicago...n__=%2CO%2CP-R

BorisMolotov Jul 15, 2022 4:31 AM

Yes we've been working on some presentation stuff for them on and off for quite a while now... I can't say much except that if this is what we've been working on it involves the sports and entertainment division.

Mr Downtown Jul 15, 2022 2:41 PM

^July 19 meeting has been canceled. "Scheduling conflict."

BVictor1 Jul 25, 2022 4:20 PM

A history lesson 50 years in the making.

https://twitter.com/Dennis_Rodkin/st...818433/photo/1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYhA5zJX...pg&name=medium

https://twitter.com/Dennis_Rodkin/st...020675/photo/1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYhBkGDX...name=4096x4096

ardecila Jul 25, 2022 4:31 PM

That Illinois Central project included lots of terra firma as well as the air rights. The terra firma part did get built by Gerald Fogelson (Central Station/Museum Park) and Mayor Daley the younger even moved there personally.

The air rights part was always going to be vastly more expensive, which is the reason Fogelson didn't end up building it. If the South Loop rents don't support costly air rights construction in 2022 without billions in taxpayer subsidy, they surely would not have supported the expense back in 1972 when the area was fully industrial.

BVictor1 Jul 28, 2022 5:48 PM

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/gove...st-megaproject

July 27, 2022 01:51 PM 19 HOURS AGO
One Central megaproject takes a new twist
Is the proposed $6.5 billion subsidy a good deal for taxpayers? A study commissioned by the state of Illinois will try to find out.

GREG HINZ

Quote:

The saga of whether the huge proposed One Central project near Soldier Field will get the $6.5 billion state subsidy developer Bob Dunn wants—money that is critical to the project if it is to proceed—has taken a new turn.

But that turn may not be exactly what it appears to be.
The new twist is that, as per little-noticed action by the Illinois General Assembly last fall, the state will soon commission a feasibility study into whether the proposal and the transit center the subsidy would fund are a good deal for taxpayers.

Gov. J.B. Pritzker’s administration is expected to soon seek bidders in a formal request for proposal process to do the study, sources familiar with the matter report. The study, presumably by a major consulting or accounting firm, will be funded by a $500,000 line item that was quietly stuck into a state appropriation bill last spring.

Randomguy34 Oct 27, 2022 7:49 PM

Just in time for Halloween, this project is still not dead. The CTA asked APTA to commission a study on the 'L' extension to the cite, and the study seemed pretty favorable to the proposal

Dunn renews One Central pitch, with an assist from Metra

Quote:

Boosted by the personal involvement of Metra's top official, developer Bob Dunn is revving up his pitch to win critical state and city support for his huge proposed One Central development across from Solider Field.

In an interview, Dunn said he's made "tremendous progress" in two years of refining and documenting the potential impact of the project, which would be anchored by a huge transit center subsidized by the state.
....
Despite the peppy words, Dunn said it won't be until at least some time next year before he presents proposed zoning on the project to City Hall. He also conceded he won't know if the state can be convinced to provide $3.8 billion in financing for the transit center until it completes an ongoing feasibility study.

Dunn also pointed to an outside review of the transit center by the American Public Transportation Association, suggesting it would substantiate the need for his proposal. APTA got involved at the request of the Chicago Transit Authority, which Dunn wants to build a spur line off its Green Line to pass near Metra Electric tracks under the proposed transit center.

In fact, the APTA report stops well short of endorsing the transit center. (Read the full report below.)

"As planned, the project could be GREAT," concluded the report, which was prepared by senior officials from around the country who have been involved in major rail expansions. "At this stage, however, many questions remain that should be answered in the next phase of work before CTA should fully commit to and take on the responsibility for a complex system extension. CTA and (Dunn's firm) should move expeditiously towards answering those questions."
Report: https://www.scribd.com/document/6031...oad&from_embed

Mr Downtown Oct 27, 2022 8:30 PM

^Did you actually read the study? On what page does anyone say it would actually meet any kind of transport objective? From the executive summary: "The peers were not asked to assess the merits of the project per se, but rather to advise CTA regarding how best to protect CTA’s interests as the project advances." I particularly like this passage, from p. 11: "Little work has been done by the ONE Central team to date, to allow CTA to understand how an extension would impact the existing rail network or who would be utilizing the new line."


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