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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

homebucket Apr 6, 2020 7:41 PM

Local dentists have actually been caught prescribing Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin for themselves and their families. This is obviously out of their scope of practice, but hey, if they feel like they can write prescriptions for it, maybe we should "enlist" them into our medical centers! :haha:

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886178)
I couldn't read that SF Chronicle article...

But I guess I had misunderstood you; I interpreted your comment incorrectly, I thought you had said drivers just decided that they weren't going to show up to work, when in actuality, they started to self-quarantine, and some have conditions that make them especially vulnerable

The article doesn't say WHY they didn't show up. Muni has very loose rules about staying out sick. Drivers just do it all the time--no doctors' notes or anything like that required (union rules). I DO suspect most of them just considered it too risky to work--look at the comments in the Examiner piece which has no firewall, several from Muni drivers. All the drivers are being paid whether they work or not, so why work?

BG918 Apr 6, 2020 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8886138)
I am sure a dentist, plastic surgeon, dermatologist could provide basic triage/ medical treatment in a crisis situation. Especially an MD who all go through the same medical school training. It's the residency where they specialize. (pedestrian?)

Individually yes. But these for-profit health systems are being just as affected as many other industries and will lay off/furlough employees. In fact healthcare may be one of the hardest hit sectors up there with hospitality and retail.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ff/5102320002/

SIGSEGV Apr 6, 2020 7:53 PM

CTA is still running full service. At first I thought it was ridiculous that the express commuter bus I ride was still running but then I remembered that plenty of the people on it are commuting to UCMedical...

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8886138)
I am sure a dentist, plastic surgeon, dermatologist could provide basic triage/ medical treatment in a crisis situation. Especially an MD who all go through the same medical school training. It's the residency where they specialize. (pedestrian?)

Yes, medical school is pretty much the same for all, certainly the "pre-clinical" years. Where/when I went, we did a year of basic sciences that everybody took and a year of clinical rotations--medicine, surgery, OB-GYN, psychiatry and pediatrics--that everybody took. Then we had a year of elective basic sciences and a year of elective clinical rotations so, for example, the would-be surgeons could do rotations in thoracic surgery and urology while the prospective non-surgeons could do neurology and nephrology (for example).

After graduation, you used to do an internship that was either surgical or non-surgical where, again, you rotated through the specialties in those general categories. Now a lot of people go directly into residencies in their chosen field.

But the point here is that with the possible exceptions of most psychiatrists, just about all other doctors have relevant skills (and the psychiatrists could counsel grieving relatives). Even radiologists have to be able to start an IV to do the type of studies where they inject contrast material plus they can certainly help out reading films in the ER if they have forgotten everything else they learned in Med School. I already pointed out that dentists inject their patients with local anesthetics so they are trained how to manage extreme allergic reactions which can be dramatic emergencies. And they do dental surgery which can be more complicated than some other surgery.

It's just not the case that these people have nothing to offer if they are willing to offer it.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 8886104)
Exactly, just because you're a "healthcare professional" doesn't mean you can necessarily help fight COVID. Many private hospitals and clinics are financially built on elective procedures, and there aren't very many of those happening right now. So absolutely there will be doctors, nurses and support staff laid off or furloughed across the country in large numbers even during this pandemic.

Quote:

Health professionals, California needs you!

California is preparing for an increase in the number of people who urgently need health care in our communities during the COVID-19 outbreak. To meet this moment, we’re opening additional health care sites to treat people affected by COVID-19 and to relieve the pressure on our health care system by providing care for non-COVID-19 cases.

To ensure adequate staff for health care sites throughout California, we’re calling on healthcare providers, behavioral health professionals, and health care administrators to register today.

We need:

Physicians (MD, DO), including medical residents
Pharmacists
Dentists
Nurse practitioners
Physician assistants
Nurses (RN, LVN, CNA), including nursing students
Behavioral health professionals (psychiatrist, psychiatric technicians psychologist, psychiatric nurse practitioner, LCSW, LMFT, LPCC)
Respiratory therapists
Paramedics
Medical assistants
Emergency medical technicians
You will be paid and will be given malpractice insurance coverage. Locations will vary, but we will try to match your geographical preferences.

You have the opportunity to play a critical role in responding to this public health emergency in your region. To care for Californians who need your help, please sign up.
https://covid19.ca.gov/healthcorps/

No health care professional in the WORLD (yes, they are granting licenses to doctors trained in other countries who might normally need additional training in the US to get licensed) needs to be laid off or unemployed right now. No excuses. Sorry.

And in CA the weather's great!

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886183)
The article doesn't say WHY they didn't show up. Muni has very loose rules about staying out sick. Drivers just do it all the time--no doctors' notes or anything like that required (union rules). I DO suspect most of them just considered it too risky to work--look at the comments in the Examiner piece which has no firewall, several from Muni drivers. All the drivers are being paid whether they work or not, so why work?

I really don't like reading comments sections of news articles; they just aggravate me. They're all subjective experiences and/or opinions, and can be filled with a lot of misinformation. I skimmed through it, though.

Are drivers really paid whether they work or not? According to this link to the SF Muni Union (though outdated, covers 7-1-2014 to 6-30-2016), it mentions sick leave with/without pay, and it does mention that paid sick leave can be exhausted.

TWU Local 250-A SFMTA: https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/...%2012%29_0.pdf

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 8:31 PM

Ah, per California Governor Gavin Newsom:

- California is lending 500 ventilators to states in need
- More than 81,000 people have signed up for the Health Corps (wow!)
- California has procured sites to hold over 4,000 emergency medical beds so far

Link, from laist: https://laist.com/latest/post/202004...te-coronavirus

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886225)
Are drivers really paid whether they work or not? According to this link to the SF Muni Union (though outdated, covers 7-1-2014 to 6-30-2016), it mentions sick leave with/without pay, and it does mention that paid sick leave can be exhausted.

Quote:

Still, Tumlin said the service reduction was not a cost-saving measure, and that Muni operators would not be furloughed.

“All operators are being paid,” Tumlin said.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

Quote:

Rampant absenteeism at Muni transit agency costs $42 million in leave pay
By Kevin Truong – Special Projects Editor, San Francisco Business Times
Dec 27, 2016, 12:55pm PST Updated Jan 3, 2017, 3:36pm PST

Muni has long struggled with no-show drivers. Every San Francisco bus and lightrail rider knows all too well the frustration of waiting and waiting for a ride that never shows up.

Now, new data from the San Francisco’s Office of the City Controller has identified the issue of chronic absenteeism at the agency that oversees Muni drivers and other transportation workers and pointed to fixes designed to stem the problem of drivers not showing up for work.

According to the study, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency has the second highest absenteeism rate of the 10 city departments with the largest operating budgets, corresponding to $42 million in leave pay during the 2013-14 fiscal year.

SFMTA’s 5,571 employees that year had an absenteeism rate of 12.91 percent, totaling nearly 1.5 million leave hours. Besides increased leave pay, chronic absenteeism at the agency also leads to canceled transit runs with longer wait times for passengers, along with increased overtime costs for staff needed to pick up the slack from absent employees . . . .
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...er-report.html

In other words, it's something of a tradition at SF Muni: Don't show up for work but expect to be paid anyway. And they won't fire you--the union won't let them. I don't know if any of these drivers not working right now have exhausted their sick leave but my guess is if asked, they will claim some sort of exposure on their route requiring "self-quarantine" and nobody will question it and they will continue to be paid.

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886249)
Quote:

Still, Tumlin said the service reduction was not a cost-saving measure, and that Muni operators would not be furloughed.

“All operators are being paid,” Tumlin said.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

Yeah I read that, but that's in regards to what's going on right now, for the time being, with service reduced from the pandemic. I didn't take that as being the general rule with the Muni drivers' union.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886249)
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/


https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...er-report.html

In other words, it's something of a tradition at SF Muni: Don't show up for work but expect to be paid anyway. And they won't fire you--the union won't let them. I don't know if any of these drivers not working right now have exhausted their sick leave but my guess is if asked, they will claim some sort of exposure on their route requiring "self-quarantine" and nobody will question it and they will continue to be paid.

I couldn't read that article.

And that sounds like your interpretation or speculation on your part.

Though I couldn't read the article, I did find this: https://sfist.com/2016/12/28/muni_drivers_cough_sick/

Same story, but it gives a little more nuanced info. It talks about sick time abuse; apparently, many drivers call out sick when their vacation requests are denied. So, that sick time is what adds to the absenteeism. They don't just not show up and get paid, they are calling out sick a lot. You seem to be making out that they're just lazy and just don't want to work but still get paid; no, they're calling out sick for a reason, because many drivers' vacations aren't approved. What if they had a significant family event to go to, like a wedding or graduation, or baptism or confirmation or whatever, but couldn't go because their vacation wasn't approved? They'll call out sick, and not because they're necessarily lazy, but because they have something important to go to.

mrnyc Apr 6, 2020 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8886147)
Even dentists have the same first year training as MDs, I believe. My sis got her dentistry degree at University of Michigan, and I think first year classes were conducted jointly.

No clue if that actually means they can provide support during this crisis, though.


well that's why we have the old md/dentist joke.

what do you call a med school dropout?


baa duummm.

tissssch.

:haha:

Double L Apr 6, 2020 9:40 PM

There are 85,357 Texans who have been tested
There are 7,319 who have been tested positive in Texas
140 deaths
21,033 beds available statewide
6,080 ventilators available
7,550 anesthesia machines available
More than 1.6 million masks
Over 2.7 million gloves distributed
1,145 cases in Houston

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 9:43 PM

From ABC-7 Los Angeles:

Coronavirus: Officials urge LA County residents to skip grocery shopping, stay home this week

Officials are advising all residents of Los Angeles County to stay home this week, which they are calling critical in the widespread efforts to curb the spread of COVID-19.

At a Monday afternoon press conference, county public health director Dr. Barbara Ferrer said people should try not leave their homes for groceries or medications, but should instead arrange for them to be delivered, if necessary.

"If you have enough supplies in your home, this would be the week to skip shopping altogether," she said.

The recommendation comes as the number of cases across L.A. County topped 6,000. The county's death toll now stands at 147.

Globally, the number of people dying appeared to be slowing in New York City, Spain and Italy. The news was cautiously welcomed by leaders, who also noted that any gains could easily be reversed if people did not continue to adhere to strict lockdowns.

[...]

Link: https://abc7.com/la-county-residents...xKZjSGlDGCXySM



It's a good thing we got our grocery shopping done yesterday; we weren't planning on going to the market for at least another 2 weeks.

Acajack Apr 6, 2020 10:09 PM

On the topic of which health care professionals could help out (and which ones couldn't), I found it interesting today that Quebec Premier François Legault mentioned that they were enlisting *veterinarians* as emergency help to install and operate ventilators - since they already know how they work.

mrnyc Apr 6, 2020 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double L (Post 8886308)
There are 85,357 Texans who have been tested
There are 7,319 who have been tested positive in Texas
140 deaths
21,033 beds available statewide
6,080 ventilators available
7,550 anesthesia machines available
More than 1.6 million masks
Over 2.7 million gloves distributed
1,145 cases in Houston


so if you have a known corona you have a 1 in 52 chance to die in texas as of currently? did i do that right? :shrug:

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886278)
You seem to be making out that they're just lazy and just don't want to work but still get paid; no, they're calling out sick for a reason, because many drivers' vacations aren't approved. What if they had a significant family event to go to, like a wedding or graduation, or baptism or confirmation or whatever, but couldn't go because their vacation wasn't approved? They'll call out sick, and not because they're necessarily lazy, but because they have something important to go to.

Not necessarily. I suspect many of them feel the same way I do. They're afraid and with good justification. But I raised this issue as a comparison with certain medical personnel in a government health system. I think some of them might not show up--those dermatologists and dentists and administrative nurses--because they're afraid to. Recall, the issue was an allegation that we have health pros sitting this one out because of capitalism or some such. I think they're sitting it out for reasons having nothing to do with economic systems just like the bus drivers.

Let me quote the comments that struck me:

Quote:

Guillermo Fernandez
I totally agree, I’m a Muni operator too, the city needs to enforce shelter in place for all these drug addicts, homeless and mentally ill, that for many years has been a public health hazard, now with these pandemic is even worse because they ride the buses more frequently, free and use the buses as shelters, leaving all the germs on the bus for us to absorb it, remember we’re inside these buses 8 to 10 hours a day, more than anybody, so we’re more exposed, besides these people don't care about their own life much worse the life of other people, also the bus stops are another shelter for these people, the city needs to clean up the bus stops shelters, the one at the 22 line Church and Dubose IB is the most dirtiest and disgusting
Quote:

Johnny Young
This is not the solution. I work for sfmta as an operator and I think the issue is and always has been is drug addicts and homeless. They roam pointlessly causing a health concern for everyone.

Case in point, I drive the 5R line. I love this line due to the fact I get to serve productive people that works in downtown and live in Richmond district, it's busy, crowded, and run time is tight. But I love serving people to their commute. The last couple of weeks has been bad, I'm just taking junkies from tenderloin to the beach.

The real solution is to clean up the street, and enforce the shelter at home firmly. If your ride is non essential, get off! You're putting everyone at risk.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

These guys are apparently still working but they tell you how many of the drivers feel and I'd bet a lot of them just decided it isn't worth it.

By the way, the 5 line referred to ("R" stands for "rapid"--it's the express bus on the 5 line) is probably the one I take the most--passes a block from my place.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8886351)
On the topic of which health care professionals could help out (and which ones couldn't), I found it interesting today that Quebec Premier François Legault mentioned that they were enlisting *veterinarians* as emergency help to install and operate ventilators - since they already know how they work.

In fact, in NY I read they are asking veterinarians to donate their ventillators to be used on people so they definitely know how those work.

Double L Apr 6, 2020 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 8886364)
so if you have a known corona you have a 1 in 52 chance to die in texas as of currently? did i do that right? :shrug:

1 in 66 in California

mhays Apr 7, 2020 1:41 AM

That's not what it means at all.

Of the known cases in past tense, sure. But a lot of cases aren't known, because they're non-or lightly symptomatic, newly infected, or seriously ill or dead but not considered coronavirus cases.

The first two suggest the survival rate is higher than the stats. The third suggests it's worse. The truth is probably between the two...WAY more cases than we know about, and also quite a bit more deaths.

As for your "chances," that would depend on future conditions. If the medical system gets overwhelmed (depends on how stupid the public is), death rates can get much higher. And of course if you're healthy and younger they'll be much lower.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 2:09 AM

From the Los Angeles Daily News:

LA County giving $10,000 each to businesses as coronavirus hits bottom lines

By CITY NEWS SERVICE | news@socalnews.com |
PUBLISHED: April 6, 2020 at 11:22 a.m. | UPDATED: April 6, 2020 at 1:46 p.m.

LOS ANGELES — Los Angeles County is launching a $500,000 fund to provide grants of up to $10,000 each to local businesses in need, officials announced Monday.

Business owners should act fast, as applications will be processed on a first-come, first-served basis and closed once 150 applications are received.

Supervisor Kathryn Barger said the Board of Supervisors and the Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services joined together to create the fund.

“The coronavirus pandemic has impacted residents and businesses throughout Los Angeles County,” Barger said. “It is vitally important that we pursue every resource available to support local business and help maintain good job opportunities throughout the region.”

The Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services will host a webinar at 1:30 p.m. Tuesday to guide business owners on how to apply. The application site will open Wednesday at 8 a.m. at https://workforce.lacounty.gov/.

About 25% of awards will be reserved for social enterprises that demonstrate a need and ability to serve vulnerable populations. Priority will also be given to businesses in unincorporated areas of the county.

Supervisor Hilda Solis said an unprecedented response is required.

“Los Angeles County will assist our most burdened businesses impacted by the COVID-19 crisis with the launch of our Employer Assistance Grant Fund,” Solis said. “This innovative state-funded program will help our local businesses, including nonprofits and social enterprises that serve our communities’ most vulnerable individuals. This unprecedented global pandemic requires an unprecedented response, and L.A. County stands ready to offer relief to our small businesses.”

In order to qualify, businesses must:

- Be a for-profit corporation, partnership, or nonprofit with a for-profit activity in Los Angeles County
- Have between two and 50 full-time employees
- Have less than $2 million in gross receipts or annual revenue
- Have been established on or before Dec. 4, 2019
- Be able to produce tax returns
- Demonstrate significant economic hardship as a result of COVID-19. Businesses that have demonstrated evidence of a loss of revenue of at least 20% will have met this burden.

Businesses can use the money to:

- Pay mortgages, rent or utilities
- Cover working capital costs
- Pay for inventory
- Bridge funding to other lenders, such as Small Business Administration Payroll Protection
- Pay down other debt incurred before the covered period

The grants may not be used to pay outstanding taxes, legal judgments, employee payroll or benefits, or for lobbying.

The WDACS acting director, Otto Solorzano, thanked state officials for making monies available for the fund, which he said would be the first of its kind in California.

“Thank you to Gov. (Gavin) Newsom and (the California Employment Development Department) for providing this critical funding for L.A. County’s businesses, and to the Board of Supervisors for their support of this essential program,” Solorzano said. “The Employer Assistance Grant Fund will provide some of our local businesses with desperately needed capital at a critical time, allowing them to retain workers and remain in business.”

Link: https://www.dailynews.com/2020/04/06...-bottom-lines/


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