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pesto Jul 11, 2012 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 5761354)
I am confused to. It's not like the Republicans in Congress didn't try to cut the already under-funded New Starts program by nearly thirty percent. As pesto always likes to point out, the state of California is broke. With Congress unwilling to help with anything except for tax loopholes for billionaires and oil companies and with the state unable to help, borrowing against future tax revenue to accelerate construction of a project when there is high unemployment makes significant sense.

Ragnar: See what I mean? This is a perfect example of disastrous thinking.

We're broke (unable to meet current needs out of current revenues), so let's borrow money NOW so spend on more current needs (reducing unemployment) and then we'll have the future taxpayer's pay off the principle and interest out of future sources of revenue (who cares which ones, that's THEIR problem).

You will note that an implicit part of this whole process is permanent increasing borrowing to service debt and interest. See Greece for a similar process.

LosAngelesSportsFan Jul 11, 2012 5:34 PM

you cant simply cut your way out of debt and revenue issues. you need to spend to spur growth. its common sense. When business is slow, you spend more on advertisement and marketing, along with cuts, to spur new business.

202_Cyclist Jul 11, 2012 5:44 PM

Pesto:
Quote:

We're broke (unable to meet current needs out of current revenues), so let's borrow money NOW so spend on more current needs (reducing unemployment) and then we'll have the future taxpayer's pay off the principle and interest out of future sources of revenue (who cares which ones, that's THEIR problem).

You will note that an implicit part of this whole process is permanent increasing borrowing to service debt and interest. See Greece for a similar process.
No, it's not like Greece at all. This is just more conservative/teabagger blather. First, with the 30/10 and America Fast Forward proposals, you have a dedicated stream of income. Over the long-term, this would not increase debt. 30/10 and America Fast Forward would provide this money up front, instead of having to wait thirty years to collect it. You claim to be knowledgeable about economics. There is something called the time value of money that is important with these infrastructure investments. Accelerating construction of the these projects reduces overall project costs because there is less interest to be paid on the cost of capital if the project is built sooner and there is less inflation in the price of building materials if the infrastructure investment is built in five years instead of thirty years.

It is also unlike Greece because you would put people back to work with good jobs building new subways and freeways. These people will then pay taxes, they will spend money in their communities supporting businesses that will also pay taxes. The multiplier effect is another simple economic concept.

Finally, unlike Greece, the money for the 30/10 Plan would not go for pensions, etc... It would go to build physical, tangible, infrastructure assets that LA will have for the next 50-75 years. This will help Southern California residents be more productive by giving them an alternative to highway congestion and it will likely provide them with more discretionary income by giving them an alternative modes of transportation that require spending thousands of dollars per year on oil. Again, this will be money that can be spent locally instead of being sent abroad to import oil.

yakumoto Jul 12, 2012 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pesto (Post 5762411)
You will note that an implicit part of this whole process is permanent increasing borrowing to service debt and interest. See Greece for a similar process.

Is Greece supposed to stand in for California in this analogy? Last time I checked Greece wasn't exactly the "powerhouse economy" of the EU and being forced to pay for the expenses of the other member states...

M II A II R II K Jul 12, 2012 10:11 PM

Freeway 'cap' could reunite downtown with the ocean


July 7, 2012

By Arlene Martinez

Read More: http://www.vcstar.com/news/2012/jul/...town-with-the/

Quote:

In pre-Highway 101 days, the city of Ventura's neat grid of streets ended, at its southern point, at the ocean. Getting to the beach from midtown was as easy as from downtown, and you didn't mind the short walk because it was the less fortunate people who lived nearest the water. Then in the 1950s came Highway 101. The neighborhood known as Tortilla Flats was dismantled, and Chestnut, Fir and Ash streets dead-ended at the freeway. California Street became a narrow offramp, and the result was a large part of town separated from the beach.

Returning Ventura to what it was like before the highway split the town is at the center of an ambitious project to cover the freeway. Known as the "freeway capping" project, the idea is to roof over the freeway with asphalt, creating a tunnel three blocks long for highway motorists. On top of it, a conference center, a transportation hub for trains and buses, and a mix of retail and commercial uses would go up. Streets that now stop at the freeway would extend over it and a new road running alongside the ocean would give motorists greater convenience in flitting between downtown and a lively beachside strip.

"To be able to reorganize and restore the urban fabric that we used to have would be unbelievably huge to the city in so many ways I can't even count them," said Bill Fulton, the former Ventura mayor who now is vice president of Smart Growth America, a Washington, D.C., urban planning think tank. "The question is, if we can pull that off." Ventura's situation mirrors that of cities throughout the state. As populations grew, planners who organized freeways sought a direct path, rather than worrying about keeping neighborhoods intact. "Caltrans was motivated by moving cars as far as they could from one region to the next," said Tyson Cline, project manager of the capping project. "They were charged with moving cars." So cities are moving to correct what are now deficiencies, he said.

.....



http://media.vcstar.com/media/img/ph...35587_t607.JPG

northbay Jul 12, 2012 10:26 PM

So there are THREE capping proposals for the 101 in the LA area? Wow.

The Parkway Presidio under construction in SF is putting the 101 in two sets of tunnels. Previously, the freeway ran on a elevated structure.

Just think its cool the 101 is "going underground" in so many places!
Really hope the Ventura plan comes to fruition and serve as a model for small to mid-sized cities (cough, Santa Rosa, cough)

JDRCRASH Jul 13, 2012 12:00 AM

^ For a grand total of six in the LA Metro: :)

Park 101 cap
Hollywood freeway park
Santa Monica 10 freeway park
Ventura 101 freeway cap
USC 110 freeway park
Glendale 134 freeway park (kinda of new: http://www.melendrez.com/news/Entrie...k_Project.html)

LosAngelesSportsFan Jul 13, 2012 12:29 AM

wow i had never heard of the Glendale proposal. its a natural fit. do you have any other links for this?

LosAngelesSportsFan Jul 13, 2012 8:16 PM

Metro till 2 AM on Fridays and Saturdays. FINALLY!!!

In the nearly three years that I’ve been running this blog, I’m pretty sure the most requested service change from readers has been for more late night rail service, particularly on the weekends.

Metro CEO Art Leahy has decided to do just that. The specifics:

•All Metro Rail lines will run until 2 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights. That includes the Red/Purple Line subway, the Blue Line, Expo Line, Green Line and Gold Line.

•Trains will run every 20 minutes between midnight and 2 a.m.

•The Orange Line will run until 2:40 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights in order to meet the last trains at the North Hollywood Red Line station. The Orange Line will also run every 20 minutes between midnight and 2:40 a.m.

•The plan at this moment is to begin late-night service on the weekend of July 27-28 but Metro is also working to determine if late night service is needed on the Silver Line, as well as working with Metrolink on the possibility of extending their service to connect with Metro’s.

Metro will provide more details on scheduling later in the month and there will be a considerable p.r. push to let everyone know about the new service. Suffice it to say, this is good news for workers and those going out on weekend nights, whether it’s to restaurants, bars or the many events in the region.

ChrisLA Jul 14, 2012 5:47 AM

That's really good news as just last week my wife and I (although we both have cars) was rushing to get one the last running trains back to our car at a expo line station. Our thing was we wanted to stay later but knew we had to make sure we didn't get stranded, or try to figure out a way to take a slow late night bus.

StethJeff Jul 14, 2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan (Post 5764607)
Metro till 2 AM on Fridays and Saturdays. FINALLY!!!

In the nearly three years that I’ve been running this blog, I’m pretty sure the most requested service change from readers has been for more late night rail service, particularly on the weekends.

Metro CEO Art Leahy has decided to do just that. The specifics:

•All Metro Rail lines will run until 2 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights. That includes the Red/Purple Line subway, the Blue Line, Expo Line, Green Line and Gold Line.

•Trains will run every 20 minutes between midnight and 2 a.m.

•The Orange Line will run until 2:40 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights in order to meet the last trains at the North Hollywood Red Line station. The Orange Line will also run every 20 minutes between midnight and 2:40 a.m.

•The plan at this moment is to begin late-night service on the weekend of July 27-28 but Metro is also working to determine if late night service is needed on the Silver Line, as well as working with Metrolink on the possibility of extending their service to connect with Metro’s.

Metro will provide more details on scheduling later in the month and there will be a considerable p.r. push to let everyone know about the new service. Suffice it to say, this is good news for workers and those going out on weekend nights, whether it’s to restaurants, bars or the many events in the region.

I especially liked the graffic over at Curbed that accompanied this story:
http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2012_07_metromapdrink.jpg

StethJeff Jul 14, 2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH (Post 5763752)
^ For a grand total of six in the LA Metro: :)

Park 101 cap
Hollywood freeway park
Santa Monica 10 freeway park
Ventura 101 freeway cap
USC 110 freeway park
Glendale 134 freeway park (kinda of new: http://www.melendrez.com/news/Entrie...k_Project.html)

Honestly, there are a handful of other places throughout Southern California where a freeway cap park could be built: Pasadena 210, Long Beach 405, etc. It's such a good idea that I'm surprised that the Hollywood 101, DTLA 110, or DTLA 101 (my personal favorite) parks aren't further along in the planning or development stages. They create badly needed open park space, link communities together, lead to more development, and can even help a lot with tourism. LA would be seen as an innovator, for a change.

With that said, no park plan in Southern California even comes close to the LA River restoration :(

202_Cyclist Jul 14, 2012 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StethJeff (Post 5765448)
Honestly, there are a handful of other places throughout Southern California where a freeway cap park could be built: Pasadena 210, Long Beach 405, etc. It's such a good idea that I'm surprised that the Hollywood 101, DTLA 110, or DTLA 101 (my personal favorite) parks aren't further along in the planning or development stages. They create badly needed open park space, link communities together, lead to more development, and can even help a lot with tourism. LA would be seen as an innovator, for a change.

With that said, no park plan in Southern California even comes close to the LA River restoration :(

Admittedly, I haven't been to Southern California in a few years but where on the 405 in Long Beach would you cap over? I don't think it is nearly dense enough there to justify this.

Rail Claimore Jul 15, 2012 4:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist (Post 5765451)
Admittedly, I haven't been to Southern California in a few years but where on the 405 in Long Beach would you cap over? I don't think it is nearly dense enough there to justify this.

I was about to ask the same question. Capping a freeway to what, connect oil refineries with Ikea?

pesto Jul 15, 2012 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan (Post 5762422)
you cant simply cut your way out of debt and revenue issues. you need to spend to spur growth. its common sense. When business is slow, you spend more on advertisement and marketing, along with cuts, to spur new business.

This is a new theory to me and one that would lead to rapid bankruptcy. In general, no one spends more on advertising and marketing when the economy is slow. This is just plain wasting money because people without funds won't buy no matter how much you advertise.

I can vouch first hand for SV, because this is what I do; marketing costs have been enormously slashed and small PR and marketing firms gone out of business.

You really have to get away from these "simplified Keynesian" ideas. Other than left-leaning politicians, these haven't been believed or in vogue for about 40 years now.

pesto Jul 15, 2012 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northbay (Post 5763631)
So there are THREE capping proposals for the 101 in the LA area? Wow.

The Parkway Presidio under construction in SF is putting the 101 in two sets of tunnels. Previously, the freeway ran on a elevated structure.

Just think its cool the 101 is "going underground" in so many places!
Really hope the Ventura plan comes to fruition and serve as a model for small to mid-sized cities (cough, Santa Rosa, cough)

And the 134 through Glendale. But not until someone finds some funds.

You would propose to cap the 101 through Santa Rosa? It seems like there is neither the density nor the lack of park or open space there that this sort of thing would require. I would stick with the current widening project and then look for other ways to spend money.

northbay Jul 16, 2012 2:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pesto (Post 5765919)
And the 134 through Glendale. But not until someone finds some funds.

You would propose to cap the 101 through Santa Rosa? It seems like there is neither the density nor the lack of park or open space there that this sort of thing would require. I would stick with the current widening project and then look for other ways to spend money.

Of course I would (in a perfect world where money is not an issue at least).

The 101 tears right through the middle of the city, dividing the entire town. Nowhere is this more apparent than with downtown and Railroad Square. To this day, this is a huge problem as it gives the feeling the city has two struggling centers, rather than a unified core (one for the tourists, the other for business). That is what freeway capping is about, reconnecting divided neighborhoods.

With the main SMART SR station in Railroad Sq, passengers heading to downtown will have to cross under the monstrosity.

Sure, with all of society's unmet needs there are plenty of other ways to spend the money. And for the record, the freeway widening in Santa Rosa is complete. So the freeway will likely remain as it is for at least the next decade. One can still dream.

JDRCRASH Jul 16, 2012 2:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan (Post 5763788)
wow i had never heard of the Glendale proposal. its a natural fit. do you have any other links for this?

Unfortunately no, I don't, other than the Curbed article on the Ventura park.

202_Cyclist Jul 16, 2012 1:50 PM

Subway Line Meets an Obstruction: Beverly Hills High School (NY Times)
 
Subway Line Meets an Obstruction: Beverly Hills High School

By ADAM NAGOURNEY
July 15, 2012
NY Times

"BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. — The Subway to the Sea, a train that would tunnel more than 15 miles from downtown Los Angeles to the Pacific Ocean, has encountered no shortage of obstacles over the years: from how to pay for it to skepticism about a huge mass transit project in a region that once ripped out trolley car tracks to make way for automobiles.

Now, a new impediment has stepped onto the tracks: Beverly Hills High School.

Beverly Hills has gone to court to block the proposed subway line from burrowing under a high school celebrated for its roster of famous graduates and its ZIP code. Beverly Hills contends that the tunnel poses a safety threat to students — the high school is built on a still-active oil field and is near an earthquake fault — and would interfere with the school district’s $3 million plan to renovate the campus..."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/16/us...roadblock.html

202_Cyclist Jul 16, 2012 3:51 PM

San Fernando Valley commuters flock to new Expo Line (LA Daily News)
 
San Fernando Valley commuters flock to new Expo Line

By Dakota Smith
07/15/2012
Los Angeles Daily News

"The dozen riders aboard the Expo Line train car early Wednesday morning used the quiet morning commute in different ways: fiddling with phones, playing video games, or reading a book. All were strangers, but a handful on the train were neighbors, of sorts.

North Hollywood resident Dairenn Lombard sat near the window, headed to a job as a computer network engineer near Culver City. A few seats away was Sherman Oaks resident Carlos Mora, who works as an academic review counselor at USC. And farther down the car, Andre Fields was heading to teach kids at a summer camp in Westchester after leaving his home in Chatsworth earlier in the morning.

Turns out, San Fernando Valley commuters are flocking to the new Expo Line..."

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_210...-new-expo-line


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