And you seem not to understand a thing about virology. No vaccine has to be perfect just as most vaccines aren't but they can eliminate significant viral transmission in the population if a threshold of people are vaccinated.

Yes, covid is here to stay but it need not be something endemic to the population in every community. It can be limited to rare outbreaks that can be controlled.

This is wrong. And the efforts to try would ruin life for everyone alive today. This has to end now.

Given the choice between say 2 more years of Covid restrictions, or every person over 80 years old dying tomorrow, I would prefer the latter. And I mean it.

Most 80 year-olds are vaccinated and we're not going to go back into the lockdowns and mask mandates like we did last year. Perhaps in the UK but you guys have surrendered a degree of autonomy to the state anyway. Here in most of the US outside the west coast, there would be a revolt.

I was more making a point.

There would be a revolt in the UK too, and I would lead it if necessary.

This article brings to mind our very own Pedestrian. The Telegraph has a really irritating paywall for a paper that doesn’t merit the subscription price, but you can get the gist of it:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.t...-ever-end/amp/

I was arguing for (much) lighter restrictions on the general population coupled with more stringent restrictions on the vulnerable. I still believe this would have been a better approach.

Even without the latter (for whatever legal reasons, which would have been more of an issue in the US than in Europe), there would have been a much stronger response among vulnerable to look after themselves, as opposed to the false sense of security produced in Europe and liberal cities in the US. Essentially this would have been the Florida approach, which was the best one.

Remember much of the early surge was in nursing homes. That really does not bother me all that much, at least not to the point where I support the terrible psychological and economic cost imposed on everyone else. People in nursing homes might not be dead yet, but they aren’t really living. And I stand by the view that the life of an 80-something is not as worthy of saving as the life, future or psychological well-being of a 20- or 30-something.

On a note closer to the original topic of the thread, here's a cool article I saw discussing how commercial real estate may evolve in the post pandemic world. It's not to be taken as gospel, and is simply another writer putting their thoughts down, but some cool ideas on how some buildings in major cities may change in the future.

https://realtybiznews.com/will-inves...m-by/98763255/

In the days since LA County reinstated mandatory masking, I've been to a big shopping mall/lifestyle center, a bookstore, a couple of bars/brewpubs, a couple small shops, three restaurants, and four department stores (new wardrobe after going without anything new since COVID!). In my experience so far, about 90-95% are wearing masks indoors, and the number of people out and about has stayed roughly the same as before.

That is true. There are a lot of reasons for me to hate on living in Texas but this isn't one of them. There's a shocking amount of people who want us all to 'mask up' and having rolling open ended lockdowns for the foreseeable future. The fact that so many are willing to hand over a degree of civil liberty is frightening.

Pasadena will require all city employees to be vaccinated.

The U.S. State Department issued a Do Not Travel alert for the United Kingdom:

Rt values of the G7,
Canada is really standing out being the only G7 member with falling cases. And deaths are down to an average of 7 day now

https://i.postimg.cc/fb9Nj9R2/corona...xplorer-58.png
https://i.postimg.cc/fbK6vfhv/corona...xplorer-59.png

The horror of giving up your liberty by having to pop on a mask when you run into H-E-B! Unfurl the red banners!

I find it hilarious that you talk about your liberty and then want to tell an 18 or 19 year old soldier home from Afghanistan that he can't own a civilian gun until he's 21.

The fact that we are now finding out that some vaccines, and especially those used heavily in the UK, are significantly ineffective against the delta strain (which 10023 and urban politicians said was just like the other strains) indicates that those seriously wishing to protect themselves even if vaccinated SHOULD wear masks indoors in stores and it would be ideal if everyone did since only the N95 and equivalent masks really protect the wearer to any degree (Scott Gottlieb is now advocating we all get those and wear them where masks are warranted rather than the bandanas and other simple cloth masks so many of the "cool kids" affected last summer).

^ I agree with JManc

The very reason we started any Covid mitigations to begin with was to prevent overwhelming the healthcare system.

That goalpost shifted long ago, to nobody anywhere should test positive for Covid.

For the vaccinated, who just aren’t going to get seriously ill or die from Covid in numbers large enough to post a societal threat, this is a betrayal.

Leaders are also being coy by saying “Covid cases are rising, this took us by surprise”. Really? When you end Covid mitigation, even with a vaccine, cases are obviously going to rise. We have to accept that. What matters is that hospitals don’t get overwhelmed.

We’ve completely lost sight of the reason we started any mitigations to begin with.

This is a pure, unadulterated lie. You grow more dangerous to reason the more time you spend on this forum. No wonder you were once banned here.

The vaccines work extremely well. Just having Covid in your nares and testing positive is NOT a vaccine failure. Stop being a dolt.

Once the Delta variant gets your memory immune response fired up, your body clears out the infection. It saves your life.

Unbelievable, your lies…..

I applaud the UK for relaxing their mitigations despite the Delta surge.

It reflects good leadership and sound reasoning. They are recognizing that just seeing a surge in cases, while a life saving vaccine is ubiquitously available to the public, is no longer adequate reason to impose these soul-crushing and economy obliterating mandates any longer. They long ago stopped serving their purpose because, you know, we have a damn vaccine.

That, my friend, is true leadership. I’m guessing many US States don’t have that same leadership and I really wish I lived in Texas or Florida right now the way fucktard Pritzker is talking.

London is still requiring masks on public transportation, which includes taxis (though it can only be enforced by the driver and if you’ve ever met a London cabbie you know they don’t care). On the tube there have always been exceptions and so I had stopped wearing one weeks ago.

Private businesses remain able to “request” that customers where masks, but they can’t enforce, and so it’s really just putting a sign up. They don’t even bother asking you to put one on.

I still see maybe 1 in 3 people wearing a mask and it’s probably going to become very political here like the US. But so what. I’ve had both doses of vaccine, and Pfizer not AZ. This is as good and safe as we’re going to get so life needs to go back to normal.

[QUOTE=Pedestrian;9345822]

^ Just whom are you having a conversation with right now? Literally. No one. Is saying “gee I wish we were Canada right now.”

I’d rather sacrifice my left nut than to live in the authoritarian hellhole that you live in, all to just keep cases of the Common Cold as low as possible :haha:

[QUOTE=the urban politician;9345857]Look at this authoritarian hellhole

• Video Link

^ What does that have to do with anything?

This is factually incorrect. They are effective against serious illness and death, and that’s all we need.

I’m not wearing a mask to keep myself from getting a bit sick, just as I never have during cold and flu season (I’ve always washed my hands frequently, which may be part of why I’m almost never sick).

Masks are NOT going to become a normal part of life. Nor should they, given now much they fuck up normal human interaction.

Btw I was in Formentera last week and you would love the see-through masks that the Spanish and Italians (it’s mostly Italian tourists) are now wearing. You can see the person’s teeth and smile through the mask. But hey, it complies with the stupid rule.

You have two other threads for these posts in where they're actually somewhat relevant. Stop spamming them in the thread that's specifically about "life in your city", unless no one went to a restaurant today because the R value crossed 0.8.

Next month Canada will allow fully vaccinated Americans to enter Canada, which is great, except that they're also requiring negative Covid tests, which is gonna be a deal-breaker for almost everyone who doesn't need to go (i.e. family, cottages, etc.).

So when will Canada actually be practically accessible? Are we looking at 2022? Until it's passport + vax card, most are gonna wait to conduct business and leisure travel.

3 of 10 provinces are fully open (as in, no more provincially-mandated COVID restrictions in place). The other 7 are mostly back to life-as-usual now, and/or will be joining those other 3 shortly.

We're basically where the US was at in terms of reopening a couple months ago. Which makes sense, given that the vaccine rollout happened a couple months later here. Reopenings have been frustrating slow & overly cautious at times, but authoritarian hellhole it is not. I mean, you live in Illinois, which only reopened in full in what, June? Wow, so much freedom. Meanwhile those across the border in authoritarian Canada have had to wait 1-2 more months for the same thing.

[QUOTE=Nite;9345860]I have not the foggiest clue what you accomplished by showing me this video. Hardly a soul on the street. What kind of life is that? Might as well live in the countryside.

I don't see any point in vaccination if you can't live you life, and that's exactly seems to be Canada's problem. You guys literally have the shittiest leadership in the developed world (although not as bad as Japan, I guess, which got into the vaccine game super late).

In the US, now, some Governors (particularly in States like Illinois) are sounding the alarm that .....................GASP.............................positive case rates are rising!!!

"We might have to bring mitigations back!!!" says fuckface JB Pritzker :facepalm:

Let me break this down logically:

1. You end all mitigation efforts
2. Obviously, case rates will rise. THIS IS EXPECTED. Let me repeat: THIS IS EXPECTED. People are dining, going to games, having parties---ie living--again.
3. Stop panicking over #2. More people will now die because dolts will be dolts and will refuse the vaccine, but vast majority of deaths will be among the unvaccinated.
4. Let the vaccinated live their life again if you want to have the slightest hope of getting them to comply with a booster shot in the future.
5. COVID will be mutating forever. And ever. And ever. And ever. Get over it, we are never going to defeat it, and will only be defeating civilization as we know it by imposing these destructive top-down measures

I'm sure I convinced nobody with this post, but rant over....

I don’t see why it would be a deal breaker so long as clinics in the US are still offering free testing?

Here in the U.K., I had to PAY for a pre-flight test and a day 2 post arrival test when I came back from Spain, despite being fully vaccinated.

Why is that different than almost everywhere else? You have to get a COVID test to enter almost any country with borders open to U.S. citizens now. And you also have to get a COVID test to return to the U.S. from anywhere.

It's a pain. I have a busy schedule with work and family, and the test is required within 72 hours of arrival. I barely have time to shower lately.

So, for a work or family trip, multiple people would have to each take two hours off for a bullshit test. Not happening. I'll wait.

Are they testing in the airport, prior to departure? I could deal with that.

But I'm not taking an afternoon off to hunt for a clinic test and wait in a room with a bunch of ostensibly ill people and idiots who have refused to vax.

And that's why I'm not headed to Europe this year. My family gets together every September in Germany, and we're missing it for the first time (last year was cancelled). Most people aren't gonna travel until it's a routine/mundane process.

And there are plenty of countries that don't require testing. Basically all of Latin America and the Carribean.

You will need a COVID test to enter most countries in the Caribbean. You even need one to enter Puerto Rico unless you're vaccinated.

Yes and no. Healthcare is under provincial jurisdiction in Canada, which means that most COVID measures are imposed by provincial governments - and different provinces have had very different approaches with different outcomes. Some, like Ontario & Quebec's, have been terrible (draconian lockdowns, yet still had high death rates because they were poorly targeted); while others like BC’s, have been excellent (minimal health measures imposed, yet still had low case rates because they actually "followed the science"). Others, like Alberta & Saskatchewan, took a more hands-off American-style approach (few restrictions, but higher cases loads), while the Atlantic provinces basically achieved zero-COVID by hermetically sealing themselves off from the rest of the world.

The federal government for their part, has some hits (vaccine procurement, income supports) and misses (too slow to close the borders in spring 2020, too slow to reopen the borders in summer 2021).

Considering we now have one of the highest vaccination rates in the world and are either fully or mostly reopened (varying by province, as mentioned earlier) though, I’d say we haven’t done too bad. Except for Ontario’s government, which has been truly terrible in every possible way.





Sounds like an authoritarian hellhole.

^ It's trying to be. Many elected leaders in Illinois, California, etc want their States to be authoritarian, but can't quite pull it off as well as Canada because they still have a public that values civil liberties.

my wife and i are thinking about taking a (no kids!!!) trip down to our time-share in Cabo in nov./dec.

we're both fully pfizer vaxxed.

does anyone know what exact protocols/restrictions are in place for non-essential travel to mexico from the US right now?

LA County, 10 million people:

https://news.yahoo.com/l-county-coro...120023795.html

Be afraid, be very afraid of Delta!

There aren't really any restrictions on entering Mexico if traveling by air. You'll probably still need a negative COVID test to re-enter the U.S. via air travel by then, regardless of vaccination status.

As of a month ago, most resort/hotels have testing on site in the lobby area. I think you'll still need that to fly back.

Not sure about Mexico, but international travel is so fluid right now in terms of what's needed, not needed. Because we never got on the vaccine passport train at the federal level, there's no one-stop shop to prove your vaccinated. The exception of course is flashing your card.

In the UK, you can prove your vaccination through the NHS app, but only UK citizens can do that. In the EU, they just rolled out a vaccine passport. Right now, only EU citizens can sign up, but there's been talk that non-EU citizens might be able to sign up.

I think the best thing you can do is just book your tickets, and if things become too difficult, you can always back out and cancel. It's changing constantly though.

Again, the various restrictions & reopenings in Canada have generally mirrored those in the US, but with a 1-2 month delay because vaccination was 1-2 months behind.

Is that 1-2 month delay the difference between freedom and tyranny?

Yeah, Mexico doesn't care about that lol. The government decided long ago to prioritize their tourism industry over COVID mitigation.

Mexico has no restrictions right now. We're headed to Mexico City in a few months for a wedding and some down time. And Mexico isn't gonna change, they don't care about anything but tourism revenues.

But the U.S. might still require negative test for a return, though I believe most major hotels/resorts provide this service.

Gate agents don't care either. You show your results (from the hotel) and they're like whatever, you're good.

thanks for the info guys. :tup:

checking with our resort, they offer free on-site covid tests for anyone needing them for returning to their home country.

so i guess we'll just go ahead and book it, and be sure to buy travel insurance in case shit gets all stupid again in 5 months.

Ugh, that reminds me I'll be in "real" Mexico, not tourist/resort Mexico, and we generally won't be staying at tourist hotels, but rural haciendas, and an apartment building in Mexico City, meaning I might have to scramble to find a Mexican clinic to get a negative test for my family.

My in-laws nextdoor neighbor is a physician. Maybe I can get him to scribble something down.

No, but I know three people that are in Mexico right now

It's potentially pretty annoying. For Canadians returning there's a window for the negative result so you need a certain turnaround time.

My main issues with these policies (for Canada; maybe the US is the same, maybe not) are:

1) Canada has giant exemptions for all sorts of travelers. We have millions of trucks going back and forth annually (it's impossible for Canada to completely separate itself from US trade). They don't need to be tested or vaccinated. Our border is completely porous to variants, with the delta variant already being quite common here. The idea that Canada had "closed borders" during the pandemic is fiction.

2) Plenty of people aren't vaccinated. It's unlikely the median fully-vaccinated traveler will be any more of a public health hazard than an unvaccinated Canadian. Unclear why travel to say Washington state is riskier than visiting Manitoba.

3) We have low rates of death, hospitalizations, and cases. The justification seems to be based on predicting the future although like I said if there are bad variants they will come here regardless.

Hopefully we'll soon move to a regime without testing requirements for vaccinated travelers, at least with some countries.

Things are doing quite better down here. In São Paulo state 52% of population got at least one dose and nationwide polls show a record high of people intending to get vaccinated: 94%.

By September, I guess 80% of the adult population will be covered by at least one dose.

And masks, well, they are still used by virtually everybody.

P.S. I got my shot last week. Pfizer.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/a...D-16327404.php

Currently 75% of San Franciscans of all ages (83% of those 12 and older) have received one dose of vaccine and 69% of all ages (76% of 12 and older) are fully vaccinated.

I know it's terrible, but maybe we just need to let this saturate so we can just get it done with as fast as possible, especially if we have all the anti-vaxxers refusing.

While I can agree in spirit, the problem with letting it kill off the stupid is that while it kills off the stupid, it's still mutating. That's the danger here, that the delta variant will mutate into something that can completely break through the vaccine.

May. And that's a very big may that doesn't really have any evidence or substantive research behind it at this point.