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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

LouisVanDerWright Apr 4, 2014 2:28 PM

I would love for them to build the Mid City transit line and then upzone the entire length of Cicero to B3-3 or so. Massive TOD would result as there are a lot of very nice, stable, neighborhoods along that route that suffer only from a lack of accessibility. There are some places on the NW side where you are a 20+ minute drive from any L station or freeway.

chicagogreg Apr 4, 2014 4:00 PM

A CTA extension to the Oak Brook/Yorktown area should be a priority. I know several commuters who drive to the forest park blue line stop in order to get downtown everyday. It's either that or Metra, which isn't all that convenient in terms of time, location, etc.

emathias Apr 4, 2014 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transit Plans (Post 6525444)
Today is a very big day for the future of Chicago transit as today is the day that ...

Yay sprawl.

Cicero line, maybe. Implementing Mike Payne's Gray Line, yes. Connecting Brown to Blue, yes. An Ashland route, maybe.

Anything else on that map? No.

Instead:

* Connect Green to Jackson Park again.
* Create new Monroe subway from the Medical District/UIC/Taylor Street through the Loop connecting to a new subway running north under Columbus/Fairbanks then Clark/Broadway to roughly Wilson eventually (start with to either Armitage or Diversey and then build on that)
* Connect that Monroe-north subway with the line utilizing the Metra Electric route.
* Clinton Subway with West Loop Transportation Center, from Clybourn to Chinatown
* Change Orange Line routing to run along east bank of river and connect to Loop at Wells instead of Wabash.
* Extend Pink Line to have transfers with new Orange Line route and run on new lakefront route north.
* Implement the Circle Line as previously described
* Upzone anywhere near a rail station with zero parking minimums.

ardecila Apr 4, 2014 5:36 PM

Ultimately I think DuPage needs to be included even if the other collar counties are left out... It is too central not to be included. That may mean other transit investments in DuPage need to be added as an enticement. A BRT line along 355 would be awesome as a feeder for Schaumburg and the Lombard/Downers area. A BRT along IL-83 would similarly be awesome, and Butterfield too.

There's also not enough investment in the core... I've become convinced that the West Loop Transportation Center is the single most important transit project in the region. Bringing the L to Union Station and allowing Metra trains to run through will drastically change the usefulness of transit for all of Chicagoland. My only concern is that it might be under built with only two Metra tracks and a limited set of vertical access points (since everything is stacked). SF is starting to run into capacity problems under Market St in a similar multi-level subway.

electricron Apr 4, 2014 6:21 PM

DuPage County, in which the City of Oak Brook resides, has just one of fifteen board members on RTA's board. You're crazy if you believe there will be any improvements in five of the six counties in the RTA service area. Chicago controls five, Cook County controls another five. Let's get realistic, Chicago and Cook County will see all the improvements for the foreseeable future - that's how the board is set up.

emathias Apr 4, 2014 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electricron (Post 6526469)
DuPage County, in which the City of Oak Brook resides, has just one of fifteen board members on RTA's board. You're crazy if you believe there will be any improvements in five of the six counties in the RTA service area. Chicago controls five, Cook County controls another five. Let's get realistic, Chicago and Cook County will see all the improvements for the foreseeable future - that's how the board is set up.

It's also how the density is set up.

nomarandlee Apr 4, 2014 7:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6526353)
Yay sprawl.

Cicero line, maybe. Implementing Mike Payne's Gray Line, yes. Connecting Brown to Blue, yes. An Ashland route, maybe.

Anything else on that map? No.
.

Agreed. In general I think some planners or advocates keep looking to see how far we can sprawl the systems we have. To keep extending the lines indefinitely. While these end up looking impressive on a map and a stat sheet I think in general this is the wrong approach.

Very generally the better approach we need is to upgrading and integrating the infrastructure we currently have. Talking about extending CTA lines to Oak Brook, Woodfield, or even Old Orchard are basically nonsense IMO. Its much better to try to push some BRT feeders from Metra stations in terms of the suburbs if anything. Trying to make new suburban TOD nodes in currently long established auto-centric grids running along highways is just a waste of resources. Not to mention the travel times just start becoming too long for most potential riders once the CTA extends further out of the city IMO.

marothisu Apr 4, 2014 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6525501)
Why would all of Cook County tax itself to extend the Blue Line out to Oakbrook or Itasca in DuPage County?

Actually I talked with a transit planner in the suburbs last summer who told me that there's plans to extend the Blue Line to Elmhurst and also Des Plaines. He may have even mentioned closer to Arlington Heights. Actually to Elmhurst makes sense if it were the Green Line with all those train lines that go there - only if they can work it out of course. I'm pretty sure around Maywood it drops to just one set of tracks doesn't it for the Metra. That probably wouldn't work.

marothisu Apr 4, 2014 8:16 PM

The thing they need to do is really connect points, which is what they've shown here in some spots so it's not so Loop-centric. That's what's wrong with the system here really.

guesswho Apr 4, 2014 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 6526667)
The thing they need to do is really connect points, which is what they've shown here in some spots so it's not so Loop-centric. That's what's wrong with the system here really.

AMEN. There just needs to be two connecting lines really (one near I-294 north/south) that would connect the airports, and one in the west side of the city (Mid-City/Clinton St. subway?). A dream world would also have a line running up/near I-355 to capture the Schaumburg, Itasca, Lisle/Lombard/Downers Grove combo, and Orland Park labor markets.

Imagine our expressways with no 90/94, 294, 355 (essentially no connectors to the radials like 88, 57, 55, 90, 290). It would be a nightmare to get around. That is how our public transit system is currently set up.

marothisu Apr 4, 2014 10:05 PM

BTW, here's a picture I found on CNT's Facebook page with Rahm at the launch of that thing:

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...62060190_o.jpg

Randomguy34 Apr 5, 2014 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6526353)
Yay sprawl.

* Create new Monroe subway from the Medical District/UIC/Taylor Street through the Loop connecting to a new subway running north under Columbus/Fairbanks then Clark/Broadway to roughly Wilson eventually (start with to either Armitage or Diversey and then build on that)
* Connect that Monroe-north subway with the line utilizing the Metra Electric route.
...
* Change Orange Line routing to run along east bank of river and connect to Loop at Wells instead of Wabash.

You mean this?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/273007dab...fqyo1_1280.jpg

ardecila Apr 5, 2014 5:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 6526663)
Actually I talked with a transit planner in the suburbs last summer who told me that there's plans to extend the Blue Line to Elmhurst and also Des Plaines. He may have even mentioned closer to Arlington Heights. Actually to Elmhurst makes sense if it were the Green Line with all those train lines that go there - only if they can work it out of course. I'm pretty sure around Maywood it drops to just one set of tracks doesn't it for the Metra. That probably wouldn't work.

This is probably not referring to the downtowns of those communities... the south part of Elmhurst touches I-88, and the south part of Des Plaines/Arlington Heights touches I-90. Both Blue Line extensions would likely run along the highway median (sadly) because putting it anywhere else is apparently too difficult...

marothisu Apr 5, 2014 6:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 6527193)
This is probably not referring to the downtowns of those communities... the south part of Elmhurst touches I-88, and the south part of Des Plaines/Arlington Heights touches I-90. Both Blue Line extensions would likely run along the highway median (sadly) because putting it anywhere else is apparently too difficult...


Well, I know you're being facetious but it probably is. The other ways you have to actually tear down peoples' homes, displace and maybe help relocate them, etc. Just one reason I'm more for BRT and legitimate tram/light rail.

Randomguy34 Apr 5, 2014 3:07 PM

The other route they can go about it is by building the new lines as a subway system. The Blue Line extensions and the O'hare-Midway Express don't really need it because they can just run on the expressways while the Gold (Gray) Line is using Metra tracks. However, the Lime (Midcity) Line would have to run subway for the most part unless for some reason every homeowner on Cicero wants there house torn down. This will obviously drive up construction cost and time of completion but at least it won't lead to the displacement of people. Besides, do you really think people will support this project once they found out homes have to be destroyed?

untitledreality Apr 5, 2014 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6526353)
Yay sprawl.

Cicero line, maybe. Implementing Mike Payne's Gray Line, yes. Connecting Brown to Blue, yes. An Ashland route, maybe.

Anything else on that map? No.

Same sentiment over here. I like the ambition, and the drive towards funding, but a few of these are extremely low impact, high dispersion ideas.

marothisu Apr 5, 2014 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 6527374)
The other route they can go about it is by building the new lines as a subway system. The Blue Line extensions and the O'hare-Midway Express don't really need it because they can just run on the expressways while the Gold (Gray) Line is using Metra tracks. However, the Lime (Midcity) Line would have to run subway for the most part unless for some reason every homeowner on Cicero wants there house torn down. This will obviously drive up construction cost and time of completion but at least it won't lead to the displacement of people. Besides, do you really think people will support this project once they found out homes have to be destroyed?

True - but still costs a lot of money but I agree it's better from a social point of view during construction than tearing down homes.

DCCliff Apr 5, 2014 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 6527430)
True - but still costs a lot of money but I agree it's better from a social point of view during construction than tearing down homes.

Wouldn't the right-of-way run along the existing abandoned corridor that roughly aligns with Kenton St. -- not along Cicero?

DCCliff Apr 5, 2014 4:25 PM

The plan also does not seem to address the increasing near-north density. There is still no easy flow from the Blue Line service area to the near north side; and there is no easy connection for the west river terminals to near north

ardecila Apr 5, 2014 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCCliff (Post 6527444)
Wouldn't the right-of-way run along the existing abandoned corridor that roughly aligns with Kenton St. -- not along Cicero?

Yes. Unfortunately this line is just a little too far away from Cicero for TOD - a full two blocks. I could see some of the industrial sites getting redeveloped with dense housing, but they wouldn't be along Cicero. Even transfers to other rail lines would be difficult; you'd have to walk the full two blocks to the existing stations along Cicero.

I'd rather see the rail corridor become a 4-lane truck highway (with toll access for cars) and then two lanes subtracted from Cicero for light rail on the surface, maybe with some short subways or elevated sections at busy intersections.


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