SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

emathias Aug 31, 2011 1:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 5395508)
...

I don't know why they didn't use the synthetic wood that you see all the time now on decks and walkways as opposed to pine.

Or just about any wood other than pine. Pine is really inappropriate for any exterior flooring application. Especially modern pine, which is usually new growth and even softer than it used to be. 100 years ago, pine might be from an older tree and while still soft, more dense. Much of this new stuff is not fit for much of anything IMHO.

Chicago3rd Aug 31, 2011 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5396373)
Well, the designers were balancing both the desire to be historically-accurate and the desire to save money. As I understand it, the project was value-engineered down to the bone, and then cut some more (although there were some perverse incentives like the Arts in Transit stuff that were part of the budget).

However, they couldn't continue to use wood with the traditional creosote treatment because of the concerns about creosote's toxicity. Artificial products would have been too expensive, but like any high-grade building material, the cost savings are made up over time though a longer lifespan and lower maintenance costs.

As an agency that is continually wanting for operating funds, CTA should really be investing in building materials with some longevity. Every time something fails like this, it only exacerbates the budget issues, since the replacement cost has to come out of the already-strained operating budget. Skimping on the materials is penny-wise pound-foolish.

I still have a mixed opinion on the galvanized railings and fixtures... stainless steel wouldn't look right on the historic platforms, but the galvanized stuff will rust much more quickly, and all signs are that the rust won't look very good either. Cor-ten would have been awesome, but apparently I'm the only person in America who actually likes the stuff. (It rusts evenly, so it creates a fairly uniform appearance)

To me it was the Chicago way. Inferior so that in a few years the "buddies" get paid to replace the stuff they laid 5 years ago. The Chicago way. A stupid person like me was wondering when they finished the stations how long the almost raw wood would last what with the weather and all the salt.

MayorOfChicago Aug 31, 2011 2:24 PM

I noticed that too as far as the rusting on the Brown Line. Especially at Fullerton and Belmont with the large white girders holding up the platforms, many of them already look disgusting. The railings are also looking pretty gross on a lot of stations.

They really are a sad sorry example of something built a few years ago!! I mean, with the corregated steel roofs on the platforms?? That's something cheap from the 40's. Look at the one at Sheridan, it's absolutely horrid - and I'm sure that's what the Brown Line will look like in 5 years since they never paint or do any sort of maint.

Nowhereman1280 Aug 31, 2011 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5394606)
^The Skyway was built by a public agency (selling revenue bonds), not with public funds. As lawfin is sure to point out, they were indeed municipal bonds, meaning that the Federal Treasury did not receive as revenue a small increment equal to the interest paid on the bond times the owner's marginal tax rate that year.

The reason those industrial brokers were wetting themselves was not over the prospect of revitalizing the Calumet region. It was over the prospect of churning the current users to fresh new spaces out in the cornfields of Newton and Kankakee counties, leaving behind the current spaces and many of the current workers. A region growing as slowly as ours does not need a new ring road every 20 years.

You still haven't addressed the question of whether or not you think freeways are necessary "to keep any industry" around, or if they do nothing but allow people to "leave the poor behind". You can't have both arguments and I can't respond to your comments until you choose one or the other. So is a robust freeway network necessary for industry or not?

Additionally this is not just "another ring road", this is another bypass for what you know very well is the biggest transportation and trade choke point in the country, perhaps the world (rivaling the world's legendary straits). There are very few ways for trucks to get in and out of Southern Chicago and NW Indiana that don't involve passing through extremely dense and built up areas that are subject to heavy traffic. Having a road that ties the 4 or 5 freeways that head into these areas together lets the trucks drive around that traffic and then head directly to the areas they need to access.

Also, the excitement over the freeway occurred during a conversation that was specifically about the "huge amount of available product" in the Gary/Lakeshore area. So no, they weren't excited about developing corn fields, though I'm sure they would love to do that as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5394741)
Illiana does not face those same urban-environment hurdles, as it runs through cornfields. The ROW does not need to be arrow-straight, it can curve and bend to accommodate farmers who are unwilling to sell or who demand high prices, as well as environmental and historical resources. These are the same farmers who sell out for housing developments every day of the week, except that the Illiana is only a narrow strip of 4-lane highway.

Except that accommodating the squatters greatly adds to the cost of construction. Even one zig zag around a few hundred acre farm could add a mile or more to the length of the road. That's a huge increase in cost and, almost as importantly, in the travel time of the road. Don't act like it's no big deal to build around squatters.

zilfondel Aug 31, 2011 7:04 PM

Pine?!

Pine won't last more than 2-3 years! Any sort of wet environment should just cause it to rot away, and its so soft that foot traffic (let alone pull-along travel cases) will destroy it.

Historic preservation can be ridiculous sometimes. Although they could have used Ipe, but thats spendy.

Mr Downtown Aug 31, 2011 7:04 PM

Modern industry relies on having freeways near it. Not 20 miles south of it. A freeway that far south of the developed area is simply the dream of someone who wants to make a killing by turning the adjacent farmland into industrial or warehouse space. There are lots of corridors that could be chosen within 10 miles of the Gary lakefront if relieving traffic congestion around the tip of the lake were the real motivation. Hell, we just decided not to bother rebuilding the SH-912 bridge because there's so little traffic in that area.

Where exactly is this huge traffic jam? TravelMidwest statistics show that the worst travel time on I-65 between US 30 and I-80 is only two minutes longer than the average. On the Kingery between the state line and the Bishop Ford it's the difference between six minutes normal and 12 minutes worst-case. How will going 10 miles further south save a trucker coming from Michigan six minutes?

I notice the Illiana made The Infrastructurist's list of useless highway projects.

jpIllInoIs Sep 1, 2011 4:11 PM

^ MR DT, Add to your argument that the Illiana is at the top of Indiana's project list, so much so that their INDOT is spearheading and funding the initial studies. Considering the palpable Hostile relationships the 2 states have with Gov. Mitch Daniels crowing about all of the businesses that are relocating to IN you can only conclude that IN sees this as a net gain for their state. The fact that the Illiana (and planned 355/I-57 connection) will give IN counties direct access to the massive new Joliet Intermodal, makes me believe IN will be using even more state subsidies to extract companies in the logistics business over to their state.

I dont see this as a win for IL at all. If one is against the SSA then how can one be for the Illiana, the 2 projects are joined at the hip. NO F%%N way are companies going to open shop in Gary when the green-fields of southern Lake County, Newton & Jasper County await replete with state incentives and property tax give backs and the same old business model that corporations have been using for decades that extracts legalized bribes and kickbacks from the public bank trust.

Even more troubling is the environmental cost of the project. The entire length of the proposed southern route is within the Kankakee River watershed. That river water is already used for the drinking water of most of Kankakee County, and far Southern Will county as well as the adjacent towns in the Indiana counties. If the expected commercial development follows the Illiana, then it is reasonable to assume that the river will be tapped to supply water. No studies are being done to anticipate this need. In the long run even more Great Lakes water may need to be diverted to support the development associated with expanding commercial development this far south.

lawfin Sep 1, 2011 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5396868)
Modern industry relies on having freeways near it. Not 20 miles south of it. A freeway that far south of the developed area is simply the dream of someone who wants to make a killing by turning the adjacent farmland into industrial or warehouse space. There are lots of corridors that could be chosen within 10 miles of the Gary lakefront if relieving traffic congestion around the tip of the lake were the real motivation. Hell, we just decided not to bother rebuilding the SH-912 bridge because there's so little traffic in that area.

Where exactly is this huge traffic jam? TravelMidwest statistics show that the worst travel time on I-65 between US 30 and I-80 is only two minutes longer than the average. On the Kingery between the state line and the Bishop Ford it's the difference between six minutes normal and 12 minutes worst-case. How will going 10 miles further south save a trucker coming from Michigan six minutes?

I notice the Illiana made The Infrastructurist's list of useless highway projects.

I couldn't agree with you more

ardecila Sep 11, 2011 11:01 AM

Random question: was there once an overpass of the railroad tracks on Sangamon between Kinzie and Fulton?

CTA Gray Line Sep 11, 2011 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5407385)
Random question: was there once an overpass of the railroad tracks on Sangamon between Kinzie and Fulton?

Yes there was, this Google Satellite link shows the intersection of Sangamon and Kinzie, you can rotate the image and see how the street grades rise up for clearance over the Metra/Milwaukee Road tracks: http://g.co/maps/fc59a and the new concrete covering where the demolished overpass began.

Additionally, there were Trolley lines on both Sangamon St., and Morgan St. one block West.

CTA Gray Line Sep 11, 2011 2:50 PM

South Lakefront Corridor Transit Study Meeting Tomorrow
 
Please attend the South Lakefront Corridor Transit Study Meeting tomorrow at the Apostolic Church of God, 5 pm at E. 63rd St. & S. Kenwood Ave.: http://campaign.r20.constantcontact....ONEud7EriGY%3D

The Church is directly across the street from the 63rd St./Woodlawn Metra Electric District Station: http://g.co/maps/gfntp

As the Station is available to the Public at all times I plan to escort small groups to examine the MED infrastructure for conversion to an 'L' operation (I have notified Metra of this, and as long as no one enters areas "Not Open to the Public" there is no problem).


I also have a Meeting with Re. Cynthia Soto (D-Chicago) Monday morning to discuss the Gray Line, and the necessity of Metra and CTA Fare Increases and Service Cuts.

Hope to see you at the Corridor Study Meeting,

Mike Payne

ardecila Sep 12, 2011 5:58 PM

Has anybody been by the Halsted bridge lately? Just wondering if they finished the abutments and started the steelwork yet. CDOT's flier has a completion date of November 2011.

CTA Gray Line Sep 13, 2011 2:36 PM

Group Wants CTA ‘Gray Line’ on Metra Electric Line
 
FOX Chicago News - Published: Tuesday, 13 Sep 2011, 7:43 AM CDT:

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news...aring-20110913


Chicago - Some South Side residents want to convert Metra's Electric Lines to a new CTA line. They call it the Gray Line.

There was a public hearing about the idea on the South Side Monday night.

The Gray Line would run from downtown through Grant Park, along the lakefront to the far South Side.

Supporters said the Gray Line would provide easy access to the Museum of Science and Industry, Ford's Torrence Avenue Plant and Chicago State University.

lawfin Sep 14, 2011 6:58 AM

I hope it happens' that part of the southside is fairly dense for the southside and would serve and underserved part of the city.

Would they intend on increasing frequency of service if it is turned over to CTA or would it run as a commuter schedule only

CTA Gray Line Sep 14, 2011 7:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5410599)
I hope it happens' that part of the southside is fairly dense for the southside and would serve and underserved part of the city.

Would they intend on increasing frequency of service if it is turned over to CTA or would it run as a commuter schedule only

One of the main points of the whole proposal is for Gray Line trains to run no less than every 10 minutes all day long (like the 'L') - except for the Blue Island and Hegewisch Shuttles (20 min. off peak).

lawfin Sep 16, 2011 6:15 AM

By Jonathan Bullington Tribune reporter
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6390950.story

9:16 p.m. CDT, September 15, 2011
An ongoing study of where to build a new CTA Yellow Line station in Evanston has identified Dodge or Asbury avenues as the preferred locations.

At the second in a series of public meetings on the topic, city officials on Thursday night said these spots might be good for a station because they are near current or potential businesses and residential developments.

Topics
Commuting
Transportation
Chicago Transit Authority
Maps
Evanston, IL, USA

The officials stressed that the study of where to put a station is still in its infancy.

A third potential station location at Ridge Avenue, while not ruled out, has fallen out of favor with the city’s advisory and technical advisory committees because the surrounding neighborhood is already highly developed, officials said.

k1052 Sep 16, 2011 1:18 PM

The article mentions direct downtown service, hopefully this is something that is seriously being considered.

It shouldn't be to terribly hard to run it over the Purple line routing any maybe switch it over to the Red after Addison to avoid it going over the loop elevated. Run it up the 13th street incline, switch tracks, and head back up north.

Nowhereman1280 Sep 16, 2011 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 5412998)
The article mentions direct downtown service, hopefully this is something that is seriously being considered.

It shouldn't be to terribly hard to run it over the Purple line routing any maybe switch it over to the Red after Addison to avoid it going over the loop elevated. Run it up the 13th street incline, switch tracks, and head back up north.

If only they could get ridership up enough on the Yellow line to justify running full-sized Red Line trains up there. Then every second or third Red Line train could just keep going up to Skokie. Too bad the platforms can't handle that...

k1052 Sep 16, 2011 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 5413060)
If only they could get ridership up enough on the Yellow line to justify running full-sized Red Line trains up there. Then every second or third Red Line train could just keep going up to Skokie. Too bad the platforms can't handle that...

Yea, I doubt the platforms will be built out to 10 car lengths. I would think that a more frequent express service from Skokie to the Loop would be a fairly popular alternative to Metra and there is room for a considerable garage just south of Dempster to do a park and ride.

VivaLFuego Sep 17, 2011 12:01 AM

Back in the 70s through 80s, the Skokie Swift ran at a 4-5 minute headway in the peak, which would provide pretty painless 2-seat service via a cross-platform transfer at Howard to Red Line trains running every 3-4 minutes. However, that also implies nearly doubling the current peak period demand on the branch to justify increasing the frequency to those levels.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.