Oh good heavens this conversation is getting pedantic.

Here's things we can all agree on:

*7 or 8 months out of the year the weather in Phoenix is perfect.
*Encanto Park is a historic, lovely park.
*Encanto Park ISN'T what it used to be, there's far less trees, flowers, and of course the band shell is gone.
* Encanto Park is probably the closest thing Phoenix has to a Central Park, but is in need of a major facelift to be a truly world class park. Right now its basically a nice neighborhood park with some golf courses.

It's just a big nice neighborhood park surrounded by neighborhoods. The end. It doesn't need to be anything else.

I agree, and I do realize this should have been in the General Phoenix Discussion thread instead. Sorry for the sidetracked posts.

Back to devleopment news...:surrender:

Having lived in Denver, I can tell you there's a huge difference between it and a Midwestern city. Denver is usually sunny. It's temperatures vary widely but it's never a six month slog of uninterrupted one thing or another. Yes, there are cold days in the winter. Do they last a long spell? No. Denver's climate is one of its attractions. Denver is also outdoorsy. Colorado has the nation's lowest obesity rate for a reason. If it were always cold, that would definitely be different.

Agree with Hoover..... OMG. move this one to the general discussion or the weather channel! :)

Works for me. :worship:

While I agree that Denver is not Chicago or Minneapolis, it is still a very cold and long winter. I lived in Denver for 15 years, so I am not a neophyte on this subject. My sons still live there and I am up there quite a bit.

I was born in Arizona, so it was a real challenge for me to try and adapt to the weather (I never did). I saw it snow as early as September 10 and as late as June 5. In 2008, there were 89 days in a row with measurable snow on the ground, that is, it never disappeared for almost 3 months.

I went jogging on Christmas day in 1987 and it was minus 13 degrees. For those that claim that it is mostly sunny, well that's because most of the sunny days have at least some time when it's cloudy, overcast, or raining/snowing.

I absolutely HATED shoveling snow in my driveway and the sidewalk in front of my house. It faced north and I had a virtual glacier in front of my house every winter. Denver weather is great in the summer, and yes, there are some beautiful days in the spring and fall, but overall, I would never trade what we have here in PHX for DEN.

Have any of you guys been to Flagstaff or Prescott for any length of time in the winter? Denver's climate is very similar to that.

Hell, I grew up in Ohio and as cold as Flagstaff gets in the Winter, at least its not constantly gray from late October to late March/early April like in the Midwest (as soleri has already alluded to).

As for Phoenix, can we all agree that nothing ever good comes from mentioning it anytime the city is brought up in City Discussions? I know I'm guilty of bashing it in the past, but living elsewhere in Arizona has given me a greater appreciation for the giant metropolis to the south (or as we call it in Coconino County, "the Great State of Maricopa" ;)) over the past several years.

I didn't notice anybody respond to your post but I'd be delighted to. That was a crappy hand that the legislature dealt to Phoenix and smaller owners.

It wasn't the GPLET's that caused this. Had the development not happened then the city would have collected the same tax, nothing. The problem didn't exist until the legislature redid the definitions for local school requirements which for downtown meant these GPLET properties had a taxable value even though no taxes are being collected. It was the legislature that screwed over the smaller guy since they had to make up the difference.

There was a good number of bills that were passed during tha 2009/10 time frame at the legislature just because they could. Many were (obviously) not well thought out or considered unintended consequences.

I would suggest that going forward Phoenix change how they utilize GPLET's as a result.

Okay, I share my chuckle
 

Rest assured the Denver thread has the same debates and frustrations (from many) every time a new apartment is proposed w/o any ground floor retail which is many of them. It's like a political talking point except it's an Urban Talking Point. :haha:

The topic of adaptive reuse of warehouses and/or inclusion as part of a new project has been discussed and Jjs5056 even did some fun mockups. HERE's an example of how Alliance Res. incorporated an historic Piggly Wiggly warehouse in Denver. THIS promo shows the other side. No retail included.

Before you do any envious breathing, Alliance would have known before they even bought the land of the block across from Coors Field what the architectural standards would be and would have to be approved by a design review board. THIS is their current project which will face Coors Field and has no ground floor retail on a very walkable block. The well known Breckinridge Brewery is in the very next block.

Alliance Res. performs and their project along Central will be very welcome in the neighborhood. I look forward to following their progress.

http://azbex.com/biomedical-garage-h...roundbreaking/

This. Looks. Hot!

Hardly even looks like a garage :cheers:

We're getting excited about unnecessary single use parking garages now?

We need to be providing vastly more on street parking so these silly garages don't need to be built. This is such a colossal waste of valuable downtown real estate and really shows how far we are as a City from "getting" it.

There is not enough on-street parking in the vicinity to support all the uses nearby (including that 6 story multi-tenant building breaking ground this fall). It's a necessary evil. At least it looks good and has 1st floor uses. Welcome to reality, it's nice to meet you.

REALLY? ? ? Excuse me in advance, but what in the hell does it look like to you then ?

unless I am missing some intended sarcasm here . . . :sly:

It kind of looks like a taller version of the garage on First and Van Buren across from the Chase Tower.

You may be right about not having enough on-street parking, which is probably why the poster said we "need to be providing" more on-street parking. Welcome to close reading, it's nice to meet you.

It's really just too bad nobody thought to invest over $1B in a light rail system in the area that would theoretically obviate the need for parking.

Again another person that has not been mugged by reality. Unfortunately I hate to disclose this, but I work in a professional setting downtown and can assure you that out of all of my collegues, I am the only person who has utilized public transit. You will need a parking garage for all the existing (and future) uses/ population within the Biomedical campus. Light-rail or no light-rail. Please refer to my original line WestBev, thanks....

And your coworkers all avoid mass transit because we subsidize parking for them. I work downtown, and I'm one of the few people in my office that uses "alternate" transportation. Why? Because our company offers a subsidy for parking, in a garage that was subsidized to build, which is reached by subsidized roads, which were driven on in subsidized cars, which are filled with barely taxed subsidized gasoline.

The reality is, if we want a vibrant downtown, we need to put say a 10 year moratorium on all single use parking structures. Studies have shown Downtown Phoenix is VASTLY over parked. We need more on street parking (easy to provide considering we have so many overly wide roads that can be re-stripped for parallel parking) and shared parking solutions.

Exactly. In reality the world is much more like...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ig1kLPH9My...es-of-Grey.jpg

But we often get caught up in the moment and try to make it black and white.