I don't know about New York, but in some states any death outside of a hospital is considered an "unattended death" and becomes a matter for the local coroner who is supposed to do enough of an autopsy to determine whether any "foul play" could have been involved. Under the circumstances, though, I don't see how any corner could keep up with what's happening in New York or anyplace like it so they are probably finessing much of an examination of the deceased.

However, coronavirus testing materials have certainly been in short supply but I doubt they are in such short supply that a few hundred can't be spared to be used on anybody dying with respiratory symptoms who has not already been tested. Furthermore, every death certificate has to have a cause of death listed by a physician and it's quite possible to diagnose COVID-19 as at least a contributory cause of death even if no testing has been done. If somebody with no history of chronic lung disease suddenly dies a respiratory death, you've got to have some plausible reason and in the middle of a coronavirus epidemic what else are you going to blame? I think even these clinical diagnoses should be counted in the totals if they aren't being.

By the way, where on Worldometer did you see this? I can't find any really current info on Worldometer--current as of the first week in April, not back in late March. Things are rapidly changing as to availability of testing and so on.

^^
Pedestrian, I clicked on the "USA". It's on the April 6th (GMT) report.

BTW, I just read somewhere, not finding the link now, that Madrid might have a 50% underreporting. There are an excess of 9,000 deaths compared to the same period last year for 4,500 of confirmed Covid-19 deaths.

In Los Angeles mayor Eric Garcetti's daily coronavirus briefing, he announced that businesses can turn away customers not wearing face masks starting this Friday.

From LAist:

LA Mayor Garcetti: Shoppers Have To Wear Face Masks Starting Friday

Mayor Eric Garcetti is delivering his daily update on L.A.'s response to coronavirus. You can watch the live video above and follow this post for updates.

FACE MASKS NOW REQUIRED FOR BOTH SHOPPERS AND STORE EMPLOYEES

Starting Thursday night at midnight, businesses will be able to turn away customers who aren't wearing face masks, Garcetti said. Workers in grocery stores, drug stores, restaurants, hotels, taxis, rideshare vehicles, construction sites, among other non-medical essential businesses will have to start wearing face masks as well.

These employers are required to provide face masks to employees or reimburse those employees for purchasing them. They will be required to enforce social distancing for both the public and employees, and provide clean restrooms to their employees and allow those employees to wash their hands every 30 minutes.

[...]

Link: https://laist.com/latest/post/202004...angeles-update

There are many places with cleaner air, even with the current circumstances.

Bisbee's on my list of places to consider retiring, which isn't that far from you. Though TBH, retirement is at least two decades away still.

Yes, absolutely. It happens often honestly. We all got used to the drought years between 2010 and 2016 but the decade prior was very wet if I recall correctly.

Our highest peaks in the LA area, namely Mt Baldy 10,064 feet, San Gorgonio 11,503 feet have snow packs of 10 feet plus right now which is awesome. We should be able to see snow covered peaks almost year round this year :)

Bisbee's very "cute" but awfully isolated. From me it's actually on the other side of a mountain range you have to go around, to the north or south, because there's not really any road that crosses it.

Some good news in Louisiana and New Orleans. The rate of new hospitalizations has slowed dramatically and the number of people on ventilators has started to decline over the past week. The governor stated that we are no longer threatened with running out of ICU beds or ventilators given the recent trends.

The state is also starting to publish onset of symptom data for confirmed cases, and it shows that 75% of all confirmed cases had an onset of symptoms on or before March 26th. Hopefully, they will add more data in the coming days, so we can see if the onset of symptoms numbers start declining in the first week of April as hospital data would suggest. The state went into lockdown on March 16th, so it looks like the stay at home orders are paying off.

https://www.theadvocate.com/baton_ro...d401d04e8.html

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...d1d1.image.jpg

This would bode well for us in South Florida where we generally have very clean air (no topology holding in pollutants, sea breeze which blows it all away, no heavy industry/manufacturing to speak of...etc).

It makes sense, a life time of breathing in crap messes with your lungs. Similar to smoking.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/07/healt...ess/index.html

Nearing the end of our 3rd week of stay-at-home here in California...

...by drinking a hot chocolate with ginger, anise and cinnamon. MMmmmmMMMmmm!!!
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...75&oe=5EB32603
Photo by me

From ABC7 Los Angeles:

Coronavirus response: California to receive more than 200 million masks per month, Gov. Newsom says

Gov. Gavin Newsom says he's put together a deal to buy hundreds of millions of desperately needed N95 masks.

"In the last 48 hours we have secured through a consortia of non-profits and a manufacturer here in the state of California upwards of 200 million masks on a monthly basis," said Newsom.

The governor revealed the news on "The Rachael Maddow Show" on Tuesday night. Newsom said California will have enough masks to meet demand, adding that there may even be enough to send to other states.

The governor said the state has already distributed more than 41 million masks. One million of them have come from the federal government.

Newsom announced earlier the nation's most populous state would also share some of its ventilators, a necessary tool to keep struggling patients breathing, with the national stockpile even as it hunts for more of its own supplies. Newsom suggested that New York may be one of the states to receive the ventilators, but he said the federal government was best poised to decide where they were needed most.

"We're very proud to be able to extend a hand of support with those 500 ventilators and send them back east," Newsom said during a news conference. But he said the state is "not naive" to its own needs.

"We need to continue to procure more ventilators," he said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.


Link: https://abc7.com/6086947/?ex_cid=TA_...ZK87igALr8y6sk

a few scenes around ny:


https://i1340.photobucket.com/albums...pssim00ai1.jpg

https://i1340.photobucket.com/albums...ps20crufdc.jpg

https://i1340.photobucket.com/albums...psulesswh6.pnghttps://i1340.photobucket.com/albums...psq507lva6.png

Today's Conference - Cuomo; 4-8-2020

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...0ea2078a1.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...29f5bc1f1.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...6d37c8a0a.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...44aa6d020.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...0a7b966e1.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...e6b3d8814.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...05cfaa657.jpeg

ohio officially relaxed the rules and joins the booze to go with food orders brigade:

i heard it was already happening informally though lol.

https://www.the-review.com/news/2020...emplate=ampart

Chicago needs to open up the lakefront trail.

Within 15 seconds at an intersection, while biking, I witnessed 12 motorcycles blowing a red light running from a cop(Roosevelt and Wabash) and then about 7 teens blow the light right after them on bikes so I went ahead and went forward. One of the teens decided to yell out that I am a f*ggot.

We need safe places to bike. Period.

Don't worry. Darwin has a way of being right. I hear the dinosaurs called the lttle mammals "f*ggot".

lol

I couldn't believe it, definitely since they looked like they were in the 14-16-year-old range. I thought those kids were more "enlightened" than people from my generation!?

I wonder if this pandemic will have a lasting effect on population density

Will people move out from big dense cities to the suburbs?

I mean, people are irrational. But it doesn't seem other health concerns impact people much...such as our eating habits.

Given how expensive all the desirable cities are, would we really mind at this point? I kind of like the idea of increased affordable housing in densely populated city centers at least for a couple of years.

They're probably pissed the skate park is closed (and it sucks that some park district person has to camp out there in a SUV to make sure people don't use the skate park...).

I would think that they're waiting for San Francisco or the state to extend the shelter at home orders or the ban on large gatherings.

Might be due to insurance purposes.

It's one thing to cancel it, another to cancel it because you can't legally hold the event.

I believe it's the same with San Diego's Comic Con.

I've noticed that person(s). Man, what a job, I want it! lol

Somehow this correlation with population density got put into the conversation but it doesn't have a lot of support. Even in New York City the worst hit areas are in Queens, not Manhattan. Queens is the second least dense borough in NYC. The second hardest hit metro area (as of this post) is Detroit, which is not known for being high density. The third hardest hit metro area is New Orleans, also not a place known for being high density.

Yeah, I don't think the issue is population density, but crowding, for the spread of COVID-19. Density and crowding aren't necessarily the same thing.

In Chicago the south side is the hardest hit, which is much less dense. My zip code (mostly high-rises) has lower per capita rates. Probably because we can all work from home and get our arugula delivered.

Many people that live on the south side of Chicago don't have a car or depend on public transportation to get around. They're unable to buy in bulk either because of the issue of carrying bags around on a bus or simply because they can't afford to. This is primarily true in the African American neighborhoods.

There is also an issue with young black south siders still hanging out with large groups of friends. Not sure if they are unaware someone with no symptoms can spread the virus but I assume these same kids are the ones spreading the virus to their older family members. There are so many factors involved in the rapid spread on the south side of Chicago.

I've also seen stats of a spike in crime. Possibly because of the nicer weather and the fact there are so many people not working. It's like a perfect storm brewing. I hope I'm wrong.

Its well recognized in the medical community that there a lot more co morbidity's esp diabetes, hypertension, renal impairment from said issues and morbid obesity that is the issue here in some populations. Add up ,fact that more people reside in a residence than usual and add the fact that social distancing is less likely to happen in these areas.

I don't think it is not access to medical care. Everyone gets treated the same if they can pay or not. Its one of the first signs in all of the hospitals from the main entrance and the ER entrance in multiple languages. You don't need healthcare insurance to get the best of the best treatment and they are not even expected nor even tried to get payment from.

Its illegal not to treat anyone actually.


Its an easy answer, and I provided the causes. No links needed. Just "Anecdotal" evidence and 30 years working in a hospital deems what I say is not even worthy of a link. But if you want to google it go for it.

Let's just say the difference between a void contract and a breach of contract is huge.

It looks like NYC's cases overwhelmingly stem from Europe. This must have been circulating for months earlier:

Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show
Travelers seeded multiple cases starting as early as mid-February, genomes show.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/s...e-genomes.html

So probably originated due to heavy European cross-pollination, but wasn't noticed until it started affecting those without the interactions, but with preexisting conditions.

Earlier!!! I think the coasts ended up with a one two punch from across the respective oceans. Stanford researchers are theorizing that California's low numbers might be attributed to a bit of herd immunity if covid starting circulating last fall undetected like we both talked about. FAA records show California regularly gets 8000 daily passengers from mainland China during the fall and winter months...

I'm not considering selling my condo, but I do think that I would be handling this period much better if I had a yard and a driveway. I'm a big mountain biker and I could be screwing around in those areas on my bike, if I had them. Instead, I have to pass through common areas and multiple doors just to get outside. I bought my place specifically to be right by a great urban park, but because I'm in a dense area (for Denver), my street has the same amount of activity as ever (going to/from the park), and I don't feel comfortable going to the park because it's so packed. Again, I'm not considering selling and moving, but these are thoughts that I've had.

Research shows it probably started mid-February. Not "months earlier" (months earlier from now but not months earlier than thought, more like a couple of weeks earlier than we thought). If it was earlier we would have known. NYC's "die at home" is ten times the normal rate. If nurses and doctors were dropping dead in droves months ago people would have noticed (doctors and nurses probably would have noticed at least). People started getting exposed in mid-February (well before any lock downs) so some would start showing symptoms around the end of February/beginning of March but in small enough numbers to not raise any alarms (plus there was no testing).

Had the same thoughts. I have no plans to leave the city, but I definitely would appreciate the space/privacy a house, a yard, and a garage would offer right now. Sick of trying to open common doorknobs in our condo building with my hand in my jacket pocket!

The first confirmed case in the US was in Chicago's Chinatown in mid-to-late January. This was definitely in New York (and elsewhere) at the beginning of the year. I wouldn't be surprised if the same number of people who have it in the US right now had it at some point in early February but just didn't know what it was.

Stairs help. A 25-minute set of stairs up / elevator down can take the place of normal exercise. Actually I find I'm working harder with stairs. All with hand sanitizer and a mask for the elevator (but not the stairs!) of course.

This may be true. I had a cold from late January through early February. Went to the university clinic. They said it was an upper respiratory tract infection. Told me to just rest and drink lots of fluids. It took me about two weeks afterward to get rid of it.

I knew it was coronavirus ( due to the winter season), but I don’t know if it was COVID-19. If it was the latter, I’m essentially immune to this thing now and I also unknowingly spread it among my classmates through February.

I now spend at least an hour per day shopping for groceries because of social distancing and long lines to enter shops.

You still grocery shop on a daily basis? We've been trying to get to the store only once every two weeks or so.

I don't know why anyone would be going everyday in this current environment.

In an ideal environment you would grocery shop daily so you can get the freshest meat and produce available, but in this day and age, I would recommend reducing it to every other, or every few days.

How? Food doesn’t stay fresh that long and I’m not going to live on canned goods. I also have a tiny European fridge that doesn’t hold much.


Well for starters I am not remotely concerned about catching this. I’ve also probably already had it.

But... you waste an hour standing in line everyday. Why not just buy enough so that you don't have to waste an hour standing in line everyday?

So every other day then? I don’t have an American fridge. There simply isn’t any space if one is making 2-3 meals a day for two people at home. And that’s with cooking things like beans in bulk (which of course then need to be refrigerated).

I’m also adamant about supporting local business during this time, so I’ve tried to stop going to Whole Foods (the typical UK high street grocery stores suck), and instead go to the greengrocers, a bakery, a butcher, a fishmonger, etc.

Provided you're single and living alone, fridge size shouldn't matter that much. I'm married with two kids and we've managed to work things out, more or less.

As to the how we've done it, off the top of my head:

1. Personally drink a powdered meal replacement (Huel) for breakfast every day, and for lunch except when there's leftovers to work through.

2. We've been eating a lot of pasta (and the kids have been eating mac and cheese).

3. Produce has been burned through pretty quickly, but I still have some tomatoes and Brussels sprouts which are still good from two weeks ago. Plus lots of onions and potatoes which could go several more weeks without refrigeration.

4. Bread is the hardest thing, given my wife/kids love it, and a loaf often goes stale/moldy before the week is done. I had to break down and start freezing loafs, even though I hate it when people do that.

5. Dairy products last for two weeks no problem. Sometimes longer for cheese or yogurt.

The big grocery stores are a nightmare but local ones near me have little to no lineups - most butchers and seafood places also do delivery or curbside pickup. We order most of our vegetables from a restaurant supplier that's doing weekly deliveries. I can get good sourdough bread at a local brewery, which kills two birds with one stone (also getting beer deliveries on top of that...).

We have had all our grocery deliveries done by a local IGA, Costco and we have also found a local artisan group that teamed in mid crisis to deliver their goods. My wife ordered sausages, couscous meals, and a bunch of other stuff. Looking at their website, I noticed a couple of additional businesses that joined their group in the past couple of days. Some of them used to cater to major hotels and fine restaurants in the Montreal region, their clientele was therefore out of commission and they are trying to go to homebound consumers.

I’m not single, there are two of us.

I drink protein shakes as a supplement anyway, but meal replacement drinks are anathema to me. Food is very important to me and I love to cook.

Pasta and potatoes are far too carb heavy unless I’m doing a lot of cardio, and my wife especially considers both “special occasion” foods. And bread, well, sourdough might last a few days at a push but a baguette needs to be eaten the day it’s made. Packaged sliced white bread is not something that we buy.

I don’t know what milk you’re buying that lasts two weeks! Or even cheese.

Basically, I’m not going to compromise how I cook or eat because of this lockdown nonsense.

So you don't actually have to stand in line everyday for an hour. You're just a masochist.