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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

twister244 Jan 13, 2022 12:18 AM

The one good thing about Omicron (besides being milder)?

It continues to move the remote work needle further and further....

Robinhood is now going permanently remote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/robi...employees.html

Another couple of recent articles showing this trend has only grown in the last several months:

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/...real-this-time

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/eco...wing-rcna11323


More cow bell!

Steely Dan Jan 13, 2022 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9501316)
Oh shit, now will our resident germophobe change his tune now that his lord and savior Dr. Fauci has said what I’ve been saying for months?

Anyone who believes that they will not be repeatedly exposed to omicron over and over and over again, has their head firmly planted in the sand.

This one is kooky contagious.

The only way to avoid it at this point is to seal yourself in a bubble, under a rock, at the bottom of a cave, on the dark side of the moon.

Omicron is gonna find you!

And it does not matter if you think it won't.

JManc Jan 13, 2022 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9501339)
The one good thing about Omicron (besides being milder)?

It continues to move the remote work needle further and further....

Robinhood is now going permanently remote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/12/robi...employees.html

Another couple of recent articles showing this trend has only grown in the last several months:

https://www.thestreet.com/investing/...real-this-time

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/eco...wing-rcna11323


More cow bell!

I normally hate WFH but in my current situation, I'd welcome it since it means I wouldn't have to relocate to the Bay Area (or Austin) and save on additional rent and expenses.

Kenneth Jan 13, 2022 6:22 AM

it is going away in Detroit now, but I mean everybody new people that caught it, or caught it themselves, i guess the next one gonna clobber us

10023 Jan 13, 2022 8:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth (Post 9501643)
it is going away in Detroit now, but I mean everybody new people that caught it, or caught it themselves, i guess the next one gonna clobber us

Why would the next one clobber us? That’s not how virus evolution works.

It may just be that all of these lockdowns and restrictions (including travel restrictions) have just made it take longer to reach this inevitable point. Once over-50s had all been given the chance to be vaccinated (whether they took it or not), we should have just let it rip. But fucking morons have been convinced that even their damn kids are at risk so here we are still with bullshit masks and (in some places) social distancing and pre-flight tests, etc.

Acajack Jan 13, 2022 1:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9501704)
Why would the next one clobber us? That’s not how virus evolution works.

It may just be that all of these lockdowns and restrictions (including travel restrictions) have just made it take longer to reach this inevitable point. Once over-50s had all been given the chance to be vaccinated (whether they took it or not), we should have just let it rip. But fucking morons have been convinced that even their damn kids are at risk so here we are still with bullshit masks and (in some places) social distancing and pre-flight tests, etc.

I am not a COVID-is-just-the-flu type at all, but the number of people I know who are totally freaked out and paranoid that their (single or double-vaccinated and perfectly healthy) kids are going to get COVID and die just boggles my mind.

Statistically speaking, the drive in a car to the vaccination centre is way more likely to kill your kid than either the vaccine or COVID itself.

(I am also pro-vaccine BTW.)

hauntedheadnc Jan 13, 2022 1:19 PM

6 people out of office of 11 out with covid and several more clients having to be seen outside.

10023 Jan 13, 2022 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9501766)
I am not a COVID-is-just-the-flu type at all, but the number of people I know who are totally freaked out and paranoid that their (single or double-vaccinated and perfectly healthy) kids are going to get COVID and die just boggles my mind.

Statistically speaking, the drive in a car to the vaccination centre is way more likely to kill your kid than either the vaccine or COVID itself.

(I am also pro-vaccine BTW.)

As a technical matter, Covid (or SARS-CoV-2) is obviously not the flu. It’s a different species of virus. But the danger it poses has been grotesquely overblown almost from the start. I say almost because more caution was justified right at the beginning, when nobody knew what it was, but the restrictions should have lasted weeks, not months (let alone years).

People forget that the flu kills as well, in quite large numbers. There have been flu strains with mortality rates much higher than this coronavirus (and not just the Spanish flu). And many of them posed much greater danger to people who were not, due to age or co-morbodities generally caused by their own indifference to their health, already more prone to die sooner rather than later.

And yet, we’ve never shut down the world, locked people down, banned travel, required them to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on tests, self-isolate at home even without symptoms, etc. It’s been a ridiculous two years.

photoLith Jan 13, 2022 2:55 PM

^
Yes, hopefully all of the people that caused this insanity are able to reflect on how stupid and gullible to propaganda they’ve been in like ten years. But I wouldn’t bet on it.

I’d surmise in 5 years there will still be tons of loons wearing masks and still worried, pushing for restrictions and social distancing.

the urban politician Jan 13, 2022 3:16 PM

I just sent a guy back to the hospital who spent a month there. Nonsmoker, 50 year old healthy male. He spent a month in the hospital with COVID Pneumonia. His lungs are trashed, he was sent home on 5L of Oxygen. When he saw me I diagnosed him with a pneumothorax (collapsed lung). He had to go back to the hospital and be readmitted to the ICU. This was caused by COVID.

He never got vaccinated.

Another guy wanted me to prescribe him hydroxychloroquine even though he has COVID with very mild symptoms (sniffles, sore throat, etc). I said that that medicine is useless and I'm not in the business of treating people with garbage. I told him that if he wanted to do something meaningful, he should have gotten vaccinated. He said he will "never" get vaccinated. I could read his political stripes just through this interaction.

There are morons everywhere. But the vaccine is the single most important thing we have. The people who are still scared after vaccination and boosting are equally moronic. They need to be shaken from this mass delusion as well.

pdxtex Jan 14, 2022 3:10 AM

I hope the search for the origin doesn't get conveniently memory holed though. Dirty sea food market or weapons lab fck up?? That part of the story still makes this thing a future liability. Also psychos in Portland continue to smash windows? Are you retail districts still being ransacked?

Pedestrian Jan 14, 2022 7:01 AM

Quote:

Over 700 employees self-isolating due to COVID-19, says Community Medical Center
by Peter Lopez
Wednesday, January 12th 2022

FRESNO, Calif. (FOX26) — Community Medical Center has announced that hundreds of hospital employees are self-isolating due to exposure to COVID-19. The Center also mentioned that a large percentage of those checked into Community Medical hospitals with COVID are not vaccinated.

According to CMC, 717 community hospital employees are self-isolating due to being exposed to COVID-19 and many of those are at home as they wait for COVID test results to come back.

Of that 717, however, 690 employees are COVID positive.

“This reflects how contagious the Omicron variant is to the public and how important it is to be vaccinated, wear a mask and socially distance,” said Senior VP and System Chief Medical Officer, Thomas Utecht, M.D.

CMC says, just in the last week, 280 patients have checked into community hospitals with COVID-19 and 71% of those individuals were not vaccinated against the virus. This, Utchet says, along with other uncontrollable issues, has put a strain on local hospitals . . . .
https://kmph.com/news/local/over-700...d-19-says-crmc

hauntedheadnc Jan 14, 2022 10:33 AM

And then there were 3 people left, out of an office of 11, still well enough to work. At this point coming to work feels like Clue (the one with Tim Curry), or one of those Agatha Christie mysteries where the weekend guests at the English country estate keep getting picked off.

the urban politician Jan 14, 2022 1:01 PM

Quote:

“This reflects how contagious the Omicron variant is to the public and how important it is to be vaccinated, as well as how abysmally useless, harmful, and wasteful mitigation measures have been and continue to be. wear a mask and socially distance,” said Senior VP and System Chief Medical Officer, Thomas Utecht, M.D.”
^ Fixed that quote

10023 Jan 14, 2022 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc (Post 9503007)
And then there were 3 people left, out of an office of 11, still well enough to work. At this point coming to work feels like Clue (the one with Tim Curry), or one of those Agatha Christie mysteries where the weekend guests at the English country estate keep getting picked off.

Are any of your colleagues really not well enough to work? Or are they just required not to come to work as a matter of policy?

Obadno Jan 14, 2022 4:13 PM

Are we still pretending covid matters ?

2 years has not yet dissuaded you?

5 million deaths over two years. Wake me up when a plague kills 5 million a day. That would be a story.

Rage on

JManc Jan 14, 2022 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9503142)
Are any of your colleagues really not well enough to work? Or are they just required not to come to work as a matter of policy?

If you have Covid at my job, you get a two week paid vacation. Doesn't count against any sick time or PTO. Not too shabby.

photoLith Jan 14, 2022 4:53 PM

^
Man, that's a sweet gig, Id say I have rona every 2 weeks.

the urban politician Jan 14, 2022 5:13 PM

The more we test, the more we hinder the economy. Period.

Pedestrian Jan 14, 2022 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 9503224)
Are we still pretending covid matters ?

2 years has not yet dissuaded you?

5 million deaths over two years. Wake me up when a plague kills 5 million a day. That would be a story.

Rage on

Sick puppy.

photoLith Jan 14, 2022 8:22 PM

^
Worldwide 140 million people are born, and around 57 million die each year. 5 million for the whole world really isn't that big of a deal. Sorry.

Obadno Jan 14, 2022 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9503609)
Sick puppy.

Our society is to freaking weak. Sorry but the world crippled itself over a moderate dangerous raspatory illness. It was idiotic and incredibly destructive to all of us and it all did nothing see omicron variant.

I know people that died, im sorry but it still does not justify what we did over covid.

Toughen the F up. I cant imagine what would happen if we had a real crisis, Jesus I think our civilization would simply collapse outright.

pdxtex Jan 14, 2022 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9503319)
The more we test, the more we hinder the economy. Period.

I'm not sure who is in charge of the narrative right now. Its like herding bipolar cats. The governor in Oregon didn't make any new mandates yet the school teacher's decided to collude with one another and shut down the schools. All the governor candidates for the fall election want them open, the city isn't bringing its ppl back to work either and 1/2 of downtown is zombieland. Its peak bizarre. At least when they were rioting ppl were downtown. Its just hobos and a few straggler tourists rightnow.

TWAK Jan 14, 2022 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 9503698)
Our society is to freaking weak. Sorry but the world crippled itself over a moderate dangerous raspatory illness. It was idiotic and incredibly destructive to all of us and it all did nothing see omicron variant.

I know people that died, im sorry but it still does not justify what we did over covid.

Toughen the F up. I cant imagine what would happen if we had a real crisis, Jesus I think our civilization would simply collapse outright.

Yet there you are complaining and unable to deal with restrictions. :haha:
Toughen up and tighten that mask.

Steely Dan Jan 15, 2022 5:43 AM

Covid is full of surprises.

Omicron vectored into our household via my son.

He had a potential exposure at his basketball league, and after he become symptomatic, we got him tested and sure enough he was positive. Then myself, and then my wife, came down with symptoms too - fever, sneezing, sniffles, body aches, etc.

But my 7 year old daughter, who has asthma and who was hospitalized on 5 separate occasions as a toddler with bronchiolitis because of her narrow and easily infected airways, absolutely nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Not a single sniffle!

Now we're all fully vaxxed, so it's not at all shocking that one of us remained completely asymptomatic throughout our family's little dance with the omicron, but it's still just so odd that my little girl was the one who skated on through 100% symptom-free. Given her medical history, she woulda been the absolute last one that I would've bet on.

photoLith Jan 15, 2022 6:38 AM

^
Just another reason as to why all of the restrictions and masking have been pointless. I would surmise that most in Chicago wear masks everywhere inside, pretty sure its needlessly mandated there again (however I could be wrong). And yet, anyone other than the elderly unvaccinated get mildly sick and don't need to be hospitalized. Not really a big deal.

SIGSEGV Jan 15, 2022 7:53 AM

In labor and delivery now (for who knows how many hours), they are definitely a bit short on nurses. We'll see how sleeping with a KN95 on goes lol. At least I'm not the one laboring...

craigs Jan 15, 2022 7:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9504139)
In labor and delivery now (for who knows how many hours), they are definitely a bit short on nurses. We'll see how sleeping with a KN95 on goes lol. At least I'm not the one laboring...

Hang in there and best of luck to you both (but especially her)!

Steely Dan Jan 15, 2022 3:49 PM

SIGSEGV, good luck to you and mama and baby!

Matthew Jan 15, 2022 5:25 PM

A family member in the Chicago-area has COVID-19 and is on oxygen, but not a ventilator. He gave a ride to a friend who was sick and now all five people in his household have it, but he is the only one in the hospital. I'm guessing he is around 45-50 years old, with pre-existing conditions? Everyone in his house was careful, wearing masks and avoiding big crowds. He wasn't vaccinated and was concerned the vaccines weren't tested enough to know if they are safe. Yes, after a year! They are safe! Get vaccinated!

Others in the family are very angry at him for not getting vaccinated.

10023 Jan 15, 2022 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9503609)
Sick puppy.

To make an argument that you will obviously disagree with, because of age and the very different manner in which you live your life:

There are more important things than preserving the remaining lifespan of every old and sick person. You can’t turn the whole world upside down to save grandma. And grandma should have taken more personal responsibility for her own safety (and severely curtailed her own activities) rather than all these restrictions and travel bans and expensive testing.

SIGSEGV Jan 15, 2022 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9504140)
Hang in there and best of luck to you both (but especially her)!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 9504220)
SIGSEGV, good luck to you and mama and baby!

Thanks... there's a lot of waiting around with not much happening (yay epidural?).

Steely Dan Jan 15, 2022 11:13 PM

^ I remember that game.

My wife was induced for our first kid and all told it was like a 30 hour process from when we arrived at the hospital until our baby girl was actually born.

Our son came a out A LOT quicker.

Hang in there

homebucket Jan 16, 2022 3:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9504139)
In labor and delivery now (for who knows how many hours), they are definitely a bit short on nurses. We'll see how sleeping with a KN95 on goes lol. At least I'm not the one laboring...

Congrats! Hope mom and baby are healthy and doing well.

homebucket Jan 16, 2022 3:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew (Post 9504278)
A family member in the Chicago-area has COVID-19 and is on oxygen, but not a ventilator. He gave a ride to a friend who was sick and now all five people in his household have it, but he is the only one in the hospital. I'm guessing he is around 45-50 years old, with pre-existing conditions? Everyone in his house was careful, wearing masks and avoiding big crowds. He wasn't vaccinated and was concerned the vaccines weren't tested enough to know if they are safe. Yes, after a year! They are safe! Get vaccinated!

Others in the family are very angry at him for not getting vaccinated.

I mean...

Pedestrian Jan 16, 2022 7:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew (Post 9504278)
A family member in the Chicago-area has COVID-19 and is on oxygen, but not a ventilator. He gave a ride to a friend who was sick and now all five people in his household have it, but he is the only one in the hospital. I'm guessing he is around 45-50 years old, with pre-existing conditions? Everyone in his house was careful, wearing masks and avoiding big crowds. He wasn't vaccinated and was concerned the vaccines weren't tested enough to know if they are safe. Yes, after a year! They are safe! Get vaccinated!

Others in the family are very angry at him for not getting vaccinated.

So I guess he has now "tested" covid enough to know whether it is real and safe.

This is what I'll never understand. With something like 200 million Americans having now had at least one shot of vaccine (very rough math--please, no criticism on that), we'd be dropping like flies in a cloud of Black Flag if it was anything like as unsafe as covid. So just looking at the issue in relative terms, remaining unvaccinated makes even less sense than getting in a closed car with someone who is sick while you are yourself unvaccinated.

Pedestrian Jan 16, 2022 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9504353)
To make an argument that you will obviously disagree with, because of age and the very different manner in which you live your life:

There are more important things than preserving the remaining lifespan of every old and sick person. You can’t turn the whole world upside down to save grandma. And grandma should have taken more personal responsibility for her own safety (and severely curtailed her own activities) rather than all these restrictions and travel bans and expensive testing.

This argument is so old and tired.

Absolutely nobody on this side of the Atlantic is talking about measures beyond vaccination and wearing masks in limited (mainly indoor) circumstances yet you keep bringing up "turning the world upside down" or other complete straw men.

I guess the modern term is "gaslighting". But your comments amount to pretty much nothing else.

What is turning the world upside down at the moment is the number of people sick with covid who cannot or should not work (just as if they had a bad cold except this number of people never get colds all at once). And if they were all vaccinated and wore masks when it is the sensible thing to do (and maybe, yes, limited indoor public socializing to times and places that are terribly important to them), it's likely fewer of them would be sick all at once and the world wouldn't be quite so turned upside down.

Trae Jan 16, 2022 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9504681)
So I guess he has now "tested" covid enough to know whether it is real and safe.

This is what I'll never understand. With something like 200 million Americans having now had at least one shot of vaccine (very rough math--please, no criticism on that), we'd be dropping like flies in a cloud of Black Flag if it was anything like as unsafe as covid. So just looking at the issue in relative terms, remaining unvaccinated makes even less sense than getting in a closed car with someone who is sick while you are yourself unvaccinated.

I dont understand why people think this though. Some only have one dose because that one dose caused adverse reactions. If we all dropped like that immediately then no one would trust the vaccine, which means the vaccine manufacturers wont make any money. They know what theyre doing. Like the corrupt food industry. Remember when the "food scientists" said margarine was safer than butter? We know how that turned out. Similar thing here with natural immunity being turned into a conspiracy theory.

10023 Jan 16, 2022 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9504684)
This argument is so old and tired.

Absolutely nobody on this side of the Atlantic is talking about measures beyond vaccination and wearing masks in limited (mainly indoor) circumstances yet you keep bringing up "turning the world upside down" or other complete straw men.

I guess the modern term is "gaslighting". But your comments amount to pretty much nothing else.

What is turning the world upside down at the moment is the number of people sick with covid who cannot or should not work (just as if they had a bad cold except this number of people never get colds all at once). And if they were all vaccinated and wore masks when it is the sensible thing to do (and maybe, yes, limited indoor public socializing to times and places that are terribly important to them), it's likely fewer of them would be sick all at once and the world wouldn't be quite so turned upside down.

Again, the experience differed by geography. Only in Florida et al was it “vaccination and wearing masks in limited circumstances. Over here in Europe the restrictions were severe, and in some places they continue to be (curfews, etc) for absolutely no reason.

“Limiting indoor socializing” and limiting travel does turn the world upside down. You were young once, I guess. Years of youth have been stolen from people that they can’t get back. And I live in London essentially so that I can travel.

The gaslighting was done by governments and public health authorities who convinced so many people that this was a killer virus, that their children were/are at risk, that employers were basically committing murder by making their 20-something year old staff go to work, etc. But that was what they did to try to achieve some compliance with the rules, otherwise everyone under 50 or 60 would have (rightfully) decided that they didn’t really give a damn.

There is no point to masks now. Everyone is going to get Covid, unless they are extremely cautious (meaning they don’t go out). If you are still so concerned even after the vaccine, then you should stay home, order groceries, and watch Netflix. But I’m not going to keep wearing a fucking mask over my face just because a few old farts think they should be able to go to restaurants and shops and other public spaces without getting a ridiculously infectious cold. We owe you nothing.

montréaliste Jan 16, 2022 1:45 PM

^^^^


There must be a reason you had to squeeze in: " And I live in London essentially so that I can travel." Out of nowhere…

Lol

someone123 Jan 16, 2022 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9504721)
The gaslighting was done by governments and public health authorities who convinced so many people that this was a killer virus, that their children were/are at risk, that employers were basically committing murder by making their 20-something year old staff go to work, etc.

There's been gaslighting on both sides. Both with danger from the virus in most populations (e.g. vaccinated people under age 65, unvaccinated children) and on the side of the severity of public health measures. As you suggest, masking requirements, vaccine passports, travel restrictions, and rolling school closures or even curfews (which Quebec had until recently) are not minor. Yet they are applied for long periods of time with a low evidence bar and a lot of people are happy to do a 180 and support restrictions that a few months earlier they would not have imagined or said were inappropriate.

It reminds me of 9/11 where there was a real threat but it was exaggerated, and then measures to cope with that exaggerated threat were pushed far beyond a reasonable cost-benefit. I believe in the future, when the political aspect dies down and the people who made the decisions are out of the picture, this will look like a similar era of massive policy failure. Many people have a warped view right now because they are fearful or partisan (remember when the US was doing badly due to Donald Trump and Joe Biden was going to bring things back to normal? :)).

I think for us to have an "off-ramp" we will need some kind of narrative for why the measures are not needed anymore (even though many did nothing or were never justified). I'm hoping the shift from omicron will provide this pretext, and maybe it just can't happen right now because of high cases. Wide availability of vaccines would have been a good point at which to dump most of the restrictions.

10023 Jan 16, 2022 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montréaliste (Post 9504741)
^^^^


There must be a reason you had to squeeze in: " And I live in London essentially so that I can travel." Out of nowhere…

Lol

The point was that travel restrictions are not minor. Travel is most of why I’m here. I don’t live in London because I want to experience England.

My sister and her husband have been in Tokyo since late 2019 and will return to Europe this summer. It was supposed to be an amazing experience, largely to travel that part of the world. Covid restrictions have ruined that, and since spring of 2021 there has been no reason for them.

10023 Jan 16, 2022 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9504795)
There's been gaslighting on both sides. Both with danger from the virus in most populations (e.g. vaccinated people under age 65, unvaccinated children) and on the side of the severity of public health measures. As you suggest, masking requirements, vaccine passports, travel restrictions, and rolling school closures or even curfews (which Quebec had until recently) are not minor. Yet they are applied for long periods of time with a low evidence bar and a lot of people are happy to do a 180 and support restrictions that a few months earlier they would not have imagined or said were inappropriate.

It reminds me of 9/11 where there was a real threat but it was exaggerated, and then measures to cope with that exaggerated threat were pushed far beyond a reasonable cost-benefit. I believe in the future, when the political aspect dies down and the people who made the decisions are out of the picture, this will look like a similar era of massive policy failure. Many people have a warped view right now because they are fearful or partisan (remember when the US was doing badly due to Donald Trump and Joe Biden was going to bring things back to normal? :)).

I think for us to have an "off-ramp" we will need some kind of narrative for why the measures are not needed anymore (even though many did nothing or were never justified). I'm hoping the shift from omicron will provide this pretext, and maybe it just can't happen right now because of high cases. Wide availability of vaccines would have been a good point at which to dump most of the restrictions.

I made the comment a year ago that the travel restrictions and masks are mostly “public health theater”, in the same way that removing your shoes and liquids at airports is “security theater”. I can’t remember who coined the term but it’s been floating around since about 2003.

On the gaslighting point - a big part of why Covid was so overblown in the US is that it’s why Trump lost the White House. It’s no surprise that the NY Times and similarly inclined media went hard on the “pandemic apocalypse”/Trump-will-kill-us-all angle. You can say “both sides” are gaslighting but everyone knows Joe Rogan and his ilk are morons - it’s a shame to see the NYT become just as nonsensical, albeit in the opposite direction.

lio45 Jan 16, 2022 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9504795)
or even curfews (which Quebec had until recently)

Still in force as of right now actually, but going to be lifted soon.

Not as annoying as the 8 pm one, but still having an annoying impact occasionally. I was taking care of non-urgent building repairs yesterday, and had to quit everything I was doing at 8 pm because I was two hours away from home; I had to drive faster than usual and managed to get in my driveway at 9:59 pm.

I was thinking while driving, it would be ironic if I hit a deer and ended up in the hospital because I was paying less attention to the road (I was paying a lot of attention to the clock, to calculate the time I had left and the distance I still had to drive, in order to constantly readjust my speed upwards) and driving faster.

iheartthed Jan 16, 2022 4:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae (Post 9504719)
I dont understand why people think this though. Some only have one dose because that one dose caused adverse reactions. If we all dropped like that immediately then no one would trust the vaccine, which means the vaccine manufacturers wont make any money. They know what theyre doing. Like the corrupt food industry. Remember when the "food scientists" said margarine was safer than butter? We know how that turned out. Similar thing here with natural immunity being turned into a conspiracy theory.

Over 200 million people in the U.S. are fully vaccinated. And probably billions globally. If there was something wrong with the vaccines, we'd almost certainly know it by now.

someone123 Jan 16, 2022 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45 (Post 9504808)
Still in force as of right now actually, but going to be lifted soon.

I saw the announcement from the Quebec premier and if I recall correctly he said they could relax restrictions now because the peak has been hit. I doubt he will say it but this timing and rationale is an admission that these measures did nothing and/or were never needed.

All they can do is "flatten the curve" and to the extent that they flattened the curve they'd "conserve energy" for spread upon relaxation. If they had been highly effective, releasing them when there's significant prevalence just a bit below the peak would cause cases to go up again, perhaps to a new even higher peak.

someone123 Jan 16, 2022 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9504801)
You can say “both sides” are gaslighting but everyone knows Joe Rogan and his ilk are morons - it’s a shame to see the NYT become just as nonsensical, albeit in the opposite direction.

It is even more slanted in Canada and still we have people carrying on as if all our problems are due to the 5% of people who get their medical advice from Joe Rogan or whoever the evil people are. We are up to around 93% of eligible vaccinated around here and a good chunk of the 7% is 5-11 year olds. Of course a lot of Canadians mindlessly follow American media and get mad at Republicans and Donald Trump so to them if people in Mississippi are dying and Trump is saying bad things about Mexicans we must do something in Canada.

I would argue that if your public health policy requires 99% of people to carefully follow your elaborate multi-year rules and not 95%, you have bad policy, not necessarily a bad public (here in Canada we have one of the most compliant populations anywhere). Eventually we have to get a grip with reality. The vaccine rollout gets us 95%+ of the benefit for < 1% of the cost of the other stuff.

lio45 Jan 16, 2022 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9504823)
I doubt he will say it but this timing and rationale is an admission that these measures did nothing and/or were never needed.

Of course they weren't "needed": the jurisdictions that didn't go anywhere near as far... ALSO peaked with similar-ish timing.

Omicron's going to rip through the population quickly, curfews or not. May as well not destroy the economy gratuitously, given that it won't change much.

someone123 Jan 16, 2022 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45 (Post 9504844)
Of course they weren't "needed": the jurisdictions that didn't go anywhere near as far... ALSO peaked with similar-ish timing.

Omicron's going to rip through the population quickly, curfews or not. May as well not destroy the economy gratuitously, given that it won't change much.

I agree but my point is it's even more plainly ridiculous than if they had been kept in place until "the danger had passed" and Legault argued that the measures made some kind of difference (argue there was an even worse counterfactual; Quebec would have been 4x as bad as everywhere else if not for the life-saving curfew). Lots of people believed this type of argument before, and the omicron dynamics were pretty similar to past waves except for the whole process being faster (maybe due to shorter generation time?). Turns out if you pessimistic modeling you can convinced a lot of people you saved them from something. :)

I do think the wheels are falling off of this a bit, and fewer and fewer people think this approach is reasonable. But I still know a lot of people who are basically in the #zerocovid camp or at least say it's "irresponsible" not to adapt behaviour a lot based on variants/cases/whatever (although TBH I notice many of these people don't behave very differently, they just say they are more concerned but do what others do).

10023 Jan 16, 2022 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9504835)
I would argue that if your public health policy requires 99% of people to carefully follow your elaborate multi-year rules and not 95%, you have bad policy, not necessarily a bad public (here in Canada we have one of the most compliant populations anywhere). Eventually we have to get a grip with reality. The vaccine rollout gets us 95%+ of the benefit for < 1% of the cost of the other stuff.

Absolutely.

I still have friends (or really acquaintances at this point) in the US who are posting things in their IG stories to the effect that the CDC “isn’t doing anything” as Omicron “ravages” the country. They live in places like Brooklyn and LA, so I know they can’t help it, but honestly. They’ve given you a very effective vaccine and you can wear a mask or not go out if you want. What the fuck do you want, to be told to stay home again? Jesus Christ.


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