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BG918 Jul 12, 2021 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9337660)
^ Yep

But characterizing large and disparate numbers of people with one dismissive label is pretty much what to expect these days

Yeah I don't get openly saying "f these people, I hope they die" just because they haven't gotten a vaccine. Disagree with them, fine, I do as well. But these are still people with families that love them.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister244 (Post 9337439)
Am I ok with it? Yes, because they CHOSE not to get vaccinated. You keep missing this point, and it's getting annoying.

Well obviously they chose to not get vaccinated....that's what this whole thing is about, and it's annoying to have to tell you that. Thankfully I saw THE SCIENCE (Fauci) suggest mandatory LOCAL shots :tup:. Follow the science....
Quote:

Why should any of us feel sympathy for communities that reject science and have to deal with the consequences?
What if we live in one of those areas?
Nobody said you have to feel sympathy, and if you don't, then it should be easier for you to treat them as "the other". If they don't matter you shouldn't care so much about their choice, and I have been saying we take that choice away from them. That would hurt their feelings the most.
Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 9337746)
Yeah I don't get openly saying "f these people, I hope they die" just because they haven't gotten a vaccine. Disagree with them, fine, I do as well. But these are still people with families that love them.

Yes, I disagree with them but they obviously don't need to die; especially if we can prevent it with one or two shots. What I don't mind doing is stripping their freedom and forcing them to vaccinate, since that's better for them than death.

Vlajos Jul 12, 2021 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9337812)
Well obviously they chose to not get vaccinated....that's what this whole thing is about, and it's annoying to have to tell you that. Thankfully I saw THE SCIENCE (Fauci) suggest mandatory LOCAL shots :tup:. Follow the science....

What if we live in one of those areas?
Nobody said you have to feel sympathy, and if you don't, then it should be easier for you to treat them as "the other". If they don't matter you shouldn't care so much about their choice, and I have been saying we take that choice away from them. That would hurt their feelings the most.

Yes, I disagree with them but they obviously don't need to die; especially if we can prevent it with one or two shots. What I don't mind doing is stripping their freedom and forcing them to vaccinate, since that's better for them than death.

Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

Crawford Jul 12, 2021 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9337996)
Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

We do this all the time, right now. Hardly "scary shit".

You want your kids enrolled in school, or participating in many activities? They better have all required vaccinations, a recent physical, etc.

In a civilized society, when you choose to interact with others, society can request things of you if you want the privileges of said interactions. Of course you can reject such privileges, but the alternative is living like a hobo.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 8:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9337996)
Wow, you want to force people to get medical treatments they don't want? That is scary shit.

...calling it a "medical treatment" :worship:. Clever.
However, it's just a "simple prick of the skin" and people are gonna have to do it if they want to go to school, travel, see their favorite band, ect. I never claimed to not say scary things too, so idk.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9338016)
We do this all the time, right now. Hardly "scary shit".

You want your kids enrolled in school, or participating in many activities? They better have all required vaccinations, a recent physical, etc.

In a civilized society, when you choose to interact with others, society can request things of you if you want the privileges of said interactions. Of course you can reject such privileges, but the alternative is living like a hobo.

That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338133)
That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

Well if you care about the deaths and not forcing people that's ok. It's when people are ok with death but not ok with....hurting the feelings of the unvaccinated.
Like I said though we can get to a point where they are "the other"...and I think that would be with another lockdown. Don't worry though, I'm not saying there will be another lockdown, I just know the threat of it can turn all of you against the unvaccinated.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 9:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338135)
Well if you care about the deaths and not forcing people that's ok. It's when people are ok with death but not ok with....hurting the feelings of the unvaccinated.
Like I said though we can get to a point where they are "the other"...and I think that would be with another lockdown.
Don't worry though, I'm not saying there will be another lockdown, just I feel the threat of it can turn all of you against the unvaccinated.

People smoke, drink, eat fast food and consume copious amounts of sugar and wind up dying from resulting conditions but we still 'allow' free will as we will with those who refuse to get covid vaccines. I'm all for carrot and stick to get more people vaccinated but forcing it is not the solution and would be met with pushback.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 9:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338137)
People smoke, drink, eat fast food and consume copious amounts of sugar and wind up dying from resulting conditions but we still 'allow' free will as we will with those who refuse to get covid vaccines. I'm all for carrot and stick to get more people vaccinated but forcing it is not the solution and would be met with pushback.

Locally there are rules against those, and Fauci did say that he sees a possibility in localized mandates (but not federally). So while not official, the science is pointing to localized mandates. I find it cheesy, but everybody says "follow the science" and Fauci is the science.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338144)
Locally there are rules against those, and Fauci did say that he sees a possibility in localized mandates (but not federally). So while not official, the science is pointing to localized mandates. I find it cheesy, but everybody says "follow the science" and Fauci is the science.

There aren't rules "against those". There are rules making those more expensive and regulating WHERE they can be done. But nobody says you can't smoke period or you can't eat sugar or drink sugary drinks or whatever.

The only consumable we still ban totally are mind-altering drugs and those prohibitions appear on the way out.

In this case, since being unvaccinated and therefore potentially a covid "Typhoid Mary" is a danger to everyone with whom you are in contact, I am for severely restricting the activities where the unvaccinated are allowed to participate including workplaces and most indoor group venues. It was one thing when there was nothing anyone could do except wear a mask to limit their potential as a coronavirus spreader but now there is and I have no sympathy for those who won't take advantage. Let them stay home or go outside and that's about it.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338152)
There aren't rules "against those". There are rules making those more expensive and regulating WHERE they can be done. But nobody says you can't smoke period or you can't eat sugar or drink sugary drinks or whatever.

Oh so those are rules, but not rules? Not sure how I get around that, unless that's the point since I'm being scary to some. Sorry, I wont be scary any more.
Quote:

The only consumable we still ban totally are mind-altering drugs and those prohibitions appear on the way out.
What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338153)

What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

I think I addressed that: Stay home or enjoy yourself outside if you aren't vaccinated but that's close to "it".

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 9337649)
I have to say I'm really not liking how many people have concluded that any adult who hasn't gotten vaccinated yet is an antivax Trumpist moron, and deserves whatever they get.

Large numbers of blacks and Latinos, along with younger people, still haven't gotten the shot. They will presumably be more persuadable than the Qanon folks.

100. It's easy to blame somebody, but it turns out it's more complex than just looking at a map and saying: "look! I told you so!"

Until it's FDA approved, not even the military can force service members to take a shot. And there's been another setback with J&J's vaccine.

Most of the unvaccinated are young adults.

Nite Jul 12, 2021 10:23 PM

in other news, Canada reported just 2 deaths today, 282 new cases nationally, active cases fall below 5,000 for the first time since last August 2020.
2 Provinces and 2 territories are now covid free (No new cases in over a week):

Nunavut
Northwest Territories
PEI
New Brunswick (new member)

https://covid19tracker.ca/province.html

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:25 PM

Quote:

Summer camps hit with COVID outbreaks -- are schools next?
By HEATHER HOLLINGSWORTH, KANTELE FRANKO and LINDSEY TANNER

The U.S. has seen a string of COVID-19 outbreaks tied to summer camps in recent weeks in places such as Texas, Illinois, Florida, Missouri and Kansas, in what some fear could be a preview of the upcoming school year.

In some cases the outbreaks have spread from the camp to the broader community.

The clusters have come as the number of newly confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the U.S. has reversed course, surging more than 60% over the past two weeks from an average of about 12,000 a day to around 19,500, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

The rise in many places has been blamed on too many unvaccinated people and the highly contagious delta variant . . . .

JoAnn Martin, administrator of the public health agency in Pettis County, lamented the difficulty in getting people to take the virus seriously and get vaccinated.

“It has been a challenge since the first case,” she said. “You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot.”

Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University infectious disease specialist, said he isn’t surprised by the outbreaks as camps reopen this year after being closed last summer. He said he had his doubts that some camps “thought through all the implications of camping during COVID.”

Ideally, he said, camps would require vaccinations for adults and for campers who are old enough, and would take other measures such as serving meals in shifts, putting fewer youngsters in the cabins and requiring anyone unvaccinated to wear masks indoors.

In the Houston area, health officials reported more than 130 youths and adults tested positive for the virus in cases connected to a church camp. The pastor of Clear Creek Community Church in League City said the outbreak happened in two waves, first at the camp and then when people returned home in late June . . . .

In Illinois, health officials said 85 teens and adults at a Christian youth camp in mid-June tested positive, including an unvaccinated young adult who was hospitalized, and some people from the camp attended a nearby conference, leading to 11 additional cases.

The Illinois Department of Public Health said all the campers were eligible for the vaccine, but only “a handful” of campers and staff had received it. The camp didn’t check people’s vaccination status or require masks indoors, according to the department.

The health department in Leon County, Florida, which includes Tallahassee, tweeted this month that an increase in cases there also was tied in part to summer camp outbreaks.

And in Kansas, about 50 people have been infected in an outbreak linked to a church summer camp held last month not far from Wichita . . . .

Summer camp outbreaks “certainly could be a precursor” to what happens when youngsters return to classrooms in the fall, said Dr. Michelle Prickett, a pulmonary and critical care specialist at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago. The outcome will depend on vaccination rates and which virus variants are prevalent, she said . . . .

Schaffner said he thinks schools won’t face similar outbreaks because they tend to be more structured and disciplined than camps and because most got used to making adjustments over the past year and a half. But he said the best way to reduce the risk is to get most people vaccinated.

“There are many parts of the country that simply have not grasped this,” he said.

It could be several months before regulators make a decision on authorizing shots for children under 12. Studies on such youngsters are still going on . . . .

https://apnews.com/article/health-co...c4caf531c980dc

"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338166)
"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.


Young people that were asymptomatic and lightly ill with cold like symptoms will tell you: It's just a cold. No big deal. etc.

Remember we've had 100,000,000 Americans infected and recovered from Covid.

Fully vaccinated older people are still freaked out and will act as if it's the Black Plague.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338159)
100. It's easy to blame somebody, but it turns out it's more complex than just looking at a map and saying: "look! I told you so!"

Consider the one country that starts with a C. We wouldn't be able to blame them....are you sure? Humans need blame though, and if we can shift it towards the unvaccinated, all of you will care less about their freedoms. That is just human nature, so don't worry about it.

Quote:

Until it's FDA approved, not even the military can force service members to take a shot. And there's been another setback with J&J's vaccine.
They force people to take shots every day, and if it's not FDA approved they use other methods to get people to vaccinate. Like shame, bullying, ect...

Quote:

Most of the unvaccinated are young adults.
Oh...so the whole "they are healthy" argument, well have that with PED.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338153)
Oh so those are rules, but not rules? Not sure how I get around that, unless that's the point since I'm being scary to some. Sorry, I wont be scary any more.

What about localized mandates and lockdowns? To get back to covid.

It's not scary, it's just stupid. Government isn't the answer for everything. Freewill and all. If you want to smoke 3 packs a day and then wash them down with a 2 liter of Mountain Dew, that's your right. As is not getting vaccinated. Society just reserves the right to cut you out of participating in certain activities until you do.

Vlajos Jul 12, 2021 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338083)
...calling it a "medical treatment" :worship:. Clever.
However, it's just a "simple prick of the skin" and people are gonna have to do it if they want to go to school, travel, see their favorite band, ect. I never claimed to not say scary things too, so idk.

That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338175)
Young people that were asymptomatic and lightly ill with cold like symptoms will tell you: It's just a cold. No big deal. etc.

Remember we've had 100,000,000 Americans infected and recovered from Covid.

Fully vaccinated older people are still freaked out and will act as if it's the Black Plague.

In article after article medical professionals who are themselves young talk about how they are now caring for other young people in hospitals and most of those are unvaccinated. Cases are doubling and are now at 20,000 per day. And yet there is denial.

And none of this counts what we don't know about long term consequences.

Just get a shot if you haven't and if you have accept that there was good reason.

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338178)
They force people to take shots every day, and if it's not FDA approved they use other methods to get people to vaccinate. Like shame, bullying, ect...

They force people to take shots that are FDA approved.

Quote:

The Navy reported a 77 percent vaccination rate for active-duty sailors, while 70 percent of troops in the Army are vaccinated, as are 61 percent in the Air Force and 58 percent in the Marine Corps.


However, thousands of military members have still not gotten the vaccine.

The vaccines are under an emergency use authorization by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Therefore, the Pentagon cannot legally require that all military members get the vaccine, although Biden could grant an exception to this rule.
https://news.yahoo.com/why-hasnt-fda...164853572.html

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338186)
In article after article medical professionals who are themselves young talk about how they are now caring for other young people in hospitals and most of those are unvaccinated. Cases are doubling and are now at 20,000 per day. And yet there is denial.

And none of this counts what we don't know about long term consequences.

Just get a shot if you haven't and if you have accept that there was good reason.

And how many of those young people are dying? The statistics aren't lying. Hospitals aren't overwhelmed. That was the entire point of "flattening the curve". We have vaccines and therapeutics and fortunately, our most vulnerable are getting the jab!

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9338183)
That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

The restrictions on that are properly getting tighter. In many of those states "personal belief" no longer works and even religion doesn't in some if you are not a member of an organized religion that has a dogma concerning vaccination which is a very limited number like Christian Science.

Vaccination Rates Rise In California After Personal Belief Exemptions Curbed

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2021 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338192)
And how many of those young people are dying? The statistics aren't lying. Hospitals aren't overwhelmed. That was the entire point of "flattening the curve". We have vaccines and therapeutics and fortunately, our most vulnerable are getting the jab!

The issue about hospitals being overwhelmed was pre-vaccination. Now it's a matter of deaths and serious illness pure and simple as it is with most diseases. The possibility of American hospitals being overhwhelmed was almost unique to covid before there were vaccinations but we still enforce other public health rules concerning diseases that have never overwhelmed the system.

TWAK Jul 12, 2021 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338179)
It's not scary, it's just stupid. Government isn't the answer for everything. Freewill and all. If you want to smoke 3 packs a day and then wash them down with a 2 liter of Mountain Dew, that's your right. As is not getting vaccinated. Society just reserves the right to cut you out of participating in certain activities until you do.

The gov gave us the vaccine, and without that it would be worse. Although, I got ten bucks that says 3 or 4 people disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9338183)
That's BS. Most states have exemptions for religious/personal beliefs.

I know that....am I gonna have to do that with every attempt at "gotcha"? Jesus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338189)
They force people to take shots that are FDA approved.

I know that. As I said, they will find other ways to make people do it. The day that the FDA does approve it, only those with religious exemptions can get away with not having it.

Vlajos Jul 12, 2021 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338194)
The restrictions on that are properly getting tighter. In many of those states "personal belief" no longer works and even religion doesn't in some if you are not a member of an organized religion that has a dogma concerning vaccination which is a very limited number like Christian Science.

Vaccination Rates Rise In California After Personal Belief Exemptions Curbed

I don't think that's true, as of this year the vast majority of states allow for religious and personal belief exemptions. Of course CA and NY are exceptions.

That being said I am pro vaccination personally and believe society should promote most vaccines. Requiring it is scary to me. Glad I don't live in a place the forces it.

Camelback Jul 12, 2021 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338203)
I know that. As I said, they will find other ways to make people do it. The day that the FDA does approve it, only those with religious exemptions can get away with not having it.

They found a way that 58% of marines are vaccinated! That's not much better than the overall public.

Once it's FDA approved 100% will be vaccinated in a matter of days.

JManc Jul 12, 2021 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TWAK (Post 9338203)
The gov gave us the vaccine, and without that it would be worse. Although, I got ten bucks that says 3 or 4 people disagree.

Yes, the government did facilitate vaccine but it's still not their place to hold our hands and make people get it. Even China has banned compulsory vaccinations so you're in uncharted territory thinking our government should.

Crawford Jul 12, 2021 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9338133)
That's not forcing people to do anything but placing conditions in order take part in certain activities. Forcing would be unilaterally mandating vaccinations against personal will. No such case exists right now with childhood vaccines.

And no such case exists now, or ever, with adult vaccines.

But the anti-vax crowd will claim people are "forcing" such behavior, when there's no such thing. But employers, airlines, universities, and many, many services will require evidence of vax, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in a civilized society.

And I'd argue that requirements for children are borderline force. You cannot enroll your kids in probably 99% of public and private schools absent the standard childhood vax. And many states have strict rules re. home schooling. And it's illegal to not have your kid in formal education in most states, between first grade and age 16. So requiring vaccines is borderline force, because you'd generally be breaking state laws re. kids education by refusing to vax. But I support such requirements 1000%.

JManc Jul 13, 2021 1:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9338265)
And no such case exists now, or ever, with adult vaccines.

But the anti-vax crowd will claim people are "forcing" such behavior, when there's no such thing. But employers, airlines, universities, and many, many services will require evidence of vax, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in a civilized society.

And I'd argue that requirements for children are borderline force. You cannot enroll your kids in probably 99% of public and private schools absent the standard childhood vax. And many states have strict rules re. home schooling. And it's illegal to not have your kid in formal education in most states, between first grade and age 16. So requiring vaccines is borderline force, because you'd generally be breaking state laws re. kids education by refusing to vax. But I support such requirements 1000%.

But several here have expressed support for just that. No, it doesn't exist now and it doesn't exist for children either...hence the anti-vax lunacy and the jump in childhood diseases.

Steely Dan Jul 13, 2021 1:07 AM

#antivaxlivesDONTmatter

:D

iheartthed Jul 13, 2021 1:12 AM

Just saw a stat that's pretty mind-boggling. San Francisco has roughly the same population as South Dakota, but (as of today) there have been 4 times as many COVID deaths in SD than in SF. In fact, across the board Bay Area counties had fewer deaths than states of equivalent size.

San Francisco (pop. 874K) 559 deaths ---- South Dakota (884K) 2,039 deaths
San Mateo (767K) 583 deaths ---- North Dakota (762K) 1,532 deaths
Santa Clara (1.928M) 1,703 deaths ---- Nebraska (1.934M) 2,262 deaths
Alameda (1.671M) 1,270 deaths ---- Idaho (1.787M) 2,165 deaths
Contra Costa (1.154M) 821 deaths ---- Montana (1.068M) 1,674 deaths
Sonoma (646K) 323 deaths ---- Wyoming (578K) 751 deaths

homebucket Jul 13, 2021 2:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9338315)
Just saw a stat that's pretty mind-boggling. San Francisco has roughly the same population as South Dakota, but (as of today) there have been 4 times as many COVID deaths in SD than in SF. In fact, across the board Bay Area counties had fewer deaths than states of equivalent size.

San Francisco (pop. 874K) 559 deaths ---- South Dakota (884K) 2,039 deaths
San Mateo (767K) 583 deaths ---- North Dakota (762K) 1,532 deaths
Santa Clara (1.928M) 1,703 deaths ---- Nebraska (1.934M) 2,262 deaths
Alameda (1.671M) 1,270 deaths ---- Idaho (1.787M) 2,165 deaths
Contra Costa (1.154M) 821 deaths ---- Montana (1.068M) 1,674 deaths
Sonoma (646K) 323 deaths ---- Wyoming (578K) 751 deaths

No doubt. Also remarkable considering the density of these Bay Area counties in comparison to these states, as well as the fact that the Bay Area was one of the first places to get hit by COVID, and thus didn't have the luxury of waiting to respond.

suburbanite Jul 13, 2021 3:23 AM

Good case study for urban areas that can get close to that 80% vaccination threshold.

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2021 8:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 9338208)
I don't think that's true, as of this year the vast majority of states allow for religious and personal belief exemptions. Of course CA and NY are exceptions.

That being said I am pro vaccination personally and believe society should promote most vaccines. Requiring it is scary to me. Glad I don't live in a place the forces it.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/health...tate-laws.aspx

I count 36 that do not have "philosophical" exemptions which I equate with "personal belief" exemptions.

As for religion, you'd have to read the law in each state but can people have their own religion that says there is no God but vaccination is the Devil's work? Very few organized religions actually oppose vaccination so very few people can actually have a valid religious objection that amounts to more than personal belief but whether they can get away with that amounts to a fine point of law.

I also said restrictions are getting tighter: In 2019, for example, Maine and Washington removed personal belief exemptions for a number of school vaccinations. In 2020, Colorado tightened up both religious and personal exemptions and in 2021 Connecticut eliminated religious exemptions.

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2021 8:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9338237)
They found a way that 58% of marines are vaccinated! That's not much better than the overall public.

Once it's FDA approved 100% will be vaccinated in a matter of days.

Given who the people in the military are--young people disproportionately from rural, Southern and midwestern backgrounds--I would normally expect vaccination rates to be very low as long as it was voluntary. 58% is actually remarkably better than I would have guessed (and remember, I was a military doctor for 26 years, 6 of those in a clinic serving a recruit training facility and 2 as a Marine Regimental Surgeon).

the urban politician Jul 13, 2021 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9338166)
https://apnews.com/article/health-co...c4caf531c980dc

"You have people who still say it is not real. You have people who say it is a cold. You have people who say what is the big deal. You have people who say it is all a government plot". We have all those right here.

Has even one of these children died?

As a reminder, about 150 US children died of Influenza in the 2019 Influenza season. I don't recall camps closing down due to that

the urban politician Jul 13, 2021 2:08 PM

I get the sense that doctors and the rational scientific community (sans germaphobes like our in house Howard Hughes wannabe Pedestrian) are growing vocal and more fed up with the media and their obsession over non-events like viral mutation, and their effort to turn each and every variant into a sequel movie to spook the public.

I heard a physician last night on PBS (as far from Conservative media as you're going to get) basically telling the public that if you're vaccinated, you're fine, and to basically chill about the Delta variant.

Of course she's right, but there are a few OCD people whom you can't convince. We just need to take the microphone away from them. Or just stop watching.

twister244 Jul 13, 2021 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9338611)
I get the sense that doctors and the rational scientific community (sans germaphobes like our in house Howard Hughes wannabe Pedestrian) are growing vocal and more fed up with the media and their obsession over non-events like viral mutation, and their effort to turn each and every variant into a sequel movie to spook the public.

I heard a physician last night on PBS (as far from Conservative media as you're going to get) basically telling the public that if you're vaccinated, you're fine, and to basically chill about the Delta variant.

Of course she's right, but there are a few OCD people whom you can't convince. We just need to take the microphone away from them. Or just stop watching.

I honestly think it's people that have too much time on their hands at this point. I am basically back to living a normal life... Well, new normal in the sense of being a digital nomad, and I love it. It's not healthy to keep worrying about what this virus is doing halfway across the country in another state. The vaccines are working, the technology has proven itself, and Pfizer is already working on boosters.

Get off the computer and go do something fun that involves being around lots of people without masks on. Trust me, it will help you in your mental health.

suburbanite Jul 13, 2021 4:52 PM

Ontario, the last bastion of lockdowns in North America, is opening indoor dining this Friday with no capacity limits as long as tables are 6 feet apart. Places that want to be classified as bars or clubs (I think having a dance floor is the key qualifier) can operate at the lesser of 25% capacity or 250 people. Yet they are claiming masks are required in a bar/nightclub :haha:. I can understand putting a mask on as you move through the common areas of a restaurant, perhaps limiting spread of possible droplets to different tables that you pass. If you're letting us all congregate in a nightclub, we are going to be breathing in each others air no matter what makes any overzealous public official feel better.

I'm for sure testing this out on Friday to see if places are actually going to enforce standing around with a drink, taking your mask off, taking a sip, and putting it back on. What a stupid rule.

the urban politician Jul 13, 2021 5:05 PM

^ Just what I've been waiting to do with a mask on....dancing in a crowded nightclub

Minato Ku Jul 13, 2021 10:39 PM

I've seen a vaccination center inside a shopping mall without appointment.
Here it's empty because it's a closing. I imagine it's been busy especially after yesterday's government announcements.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67312d88_c.jpg
4 Temps La Défense, centre de vaccination by Minato ku, sur Flickr

With the development of the delta variant, the loosening of the population and the drop in the number of appointments for vaccination, it was decided that a health pass would be needed for frequenting restaurants, bars, café, shopping malls, cinema theaters, to take trains (urban/suburban public transportation not included), planes and other activities from August.

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2021 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato Ku (Post 9339265)
With the development of the delta variant, the loosening of the population and the drop in the number of appointments for vaccination, it was decided that a health pass would be needed for frequenting restaurants, bars, café, shopping malls, cinema theaters, to take trains (urban/suburban public transportation not included), planes and other activities from August.

I wish we'd do that. You don't HAVE TO get vaccinated unless you want a life beyond your home and the outdoors.

xzmattzx Jul 14, 2021 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minato Ku (Post 9339265)
it was decided that a health pass would be needed for frequenting restaurants, bars, café, shopping malls, cinema theaters, to take trains (urban/suburban public transportation not included), planes and other activities from August.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9339269)
I wish we'd do that. You don't HAVE TO get vaccinated unless you want a life beyond your home and the outdoors.

This is exactly the stuff that QAnon conspiracy theorists say will happen. "Let me see your papers." You basically would need a passport to leave your house. Some people seem to want to prove these lunatics right.

Minato Ku Jul 14, 2021 10:59 AM

Honestly, I don't care of what Qanon or other conspirationists may think.
What matters is fighting the virus without closing the economy.
Nobody is barred from being vaccinated. It's free and there are vaccination centres everywhere.

Everybody can do a test and they are avaible everywhere. It's free until October in France.

Acajack Jul 14, 2021 1:10 PM

Where I live, I've never seen so many surprise shortages of various consumer items.

I mean, we all remember the run on toilet paper in the spring of 2020, but since then I've seen multiple instances of more stuff than ever simply not being available.

In the past you'd see that with popular toys around Christmas time (Cabbage Patch Dolls, Star Wars action figures) but nothing on the scale of what I've seen in the past year.

For example, since the start of the summer where I live there has been a shortage of all sorts of pool and spa equipment.

Not just: we're all out but we're getting more later this week.

Rather: we're all out and not sure when we'll be getting more; might not have any before the end of the season.

I don't know if this is due to increased demand due to the pandemic that traditional supply chains didn't account for, or if it's because the pandemic disrupted traditional production in some way.

But it's very noticeable in a bunch of areas.

suburbanite Jul 14, 2021 1:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9339626)
I don't know if this is due to increased demand due to the pandemic that traditional supply chains didn't account for, or if it's because the pandemic disrupted traditional production in some way.

But it's very noticeable in a bunch of areas.

It's typically just anything recreational that people have been desperately buying up. Golf clubs? Everyone took up golfing when it was the only sport allowed and if you want to order a fitted club you're probably looking at a 3-4 month back order. Boats, Bikes, hell you couldn't even find a dog to adopt around this time last summer.

Nite Jul 15, 2021 7:23 AM

Canada is now the only country in the G7 with an R-Value less than 1.0 (i.e. cases are still falling between 20 and 30% a week with 4 provinces and territories covid free)
Covid is rapidly being stamped out in Canada

https://i.postimg.cc/gJ0Yhm6Y/corona...xplorer-45.png

MonkeyRonin Jul 15, 2021 1:51 PM

:previous: As has been mentioned earlier, 99.7% of cases in the US are now amongst the unvaccinated. If you're fully vaccinated, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not vaccinated, you've made your choice and can deal with the consequences.

If cases are only rising for the unvaxxed, then what exactly is the problem?

Nite Jul 15, 2021 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin (Post 9340672)
:previous: As has been mentioned earlier, 99.7% of cases in the US are now amongst the unvaccinated. If you're fully vaccinated, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not vaccinated, you've made your choice and can deal with the consequences.

If cases are only rising for the unvaxxed, then what exactly is the problem?

Where did i mention anything in my last post about the US


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