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-   -   CHICAGO | Salesforce Tower | 850 FT | 60 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=217949)

Notyrview Oct 7, 2016 2:21 PM

I was quick to vilify Reilly but I think it's definitely a possibility that the agreement to reduce the height bc of traffic concerns is a pretext for shrinking rental demand. Why tarnish the project in any way? Just blame it on traffic concerns.

SamInTheLoop Oct 7, 2016 3:00 PM

I also think it's much more likely that the developer simply does not need a 750' tower here. It's not that they are not continuing to be quite bullish on the rental apartment market - this tower will be over 700 units! That's a huge apartment tower, quite (appropriately) dense. The PD allotments are just that - allotments, and this one allowed some flexibility as to use. 750' may very well have come in handy for a ~50-55 story office tower on the E parcel, but it's just not necessary for a 700 unit apartment tower. I'm actually still slightly perplexed by the decision to not move next with the south tower as a condo/hotel tower, and then wrap-up with East (likely next cycle) as office.......that would have made the most sense - not that the scheme they are working toward won't also work. The condo market is going to surprise many over the next few years - to the upside. It's got good room to run. Hotels might be a little more iffy - although this year downtown is a down year (has a lot to do with the convention schedule), my expectation is that the hotel market will be back and perform better the next couple. Meanwhile, apartment demand is holding up decently for the most part - it's just that supply is growing more quickly, and will likely continue to........plus, I think there will be an incremental shift in market share as far as demand (and then new supply) toward ownership and away from rentership (don't believe the hype about the millennial generation staying permanent renters - or their ownership rate staying relatively flat - that's largely nonsense.....they will not stay in their 20s and early 30s forever, they'll get married, have kids, etc....many will move to the suburbs of course and get the single-family market kicked into a higher gear......which in turn will increase empty nester moves to city condos, etc).....

Anyway, OT, back to Wolf Point - I think the design of WPE is exceptionally nice - much like WPW. This is by far most important. Frankly, I would be pleased as punch if we were to get an 850' tower at WPS that was of similar caliber in design as the first two........

Kumdogmillionaire Oct 7, 2016 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryanrule (Post 7585201)
I find the black cars must less of a fuck than the normal uber. At least they tend to be actual drivers as their job. The normal uber goobers have no idea.

That first sentence made me think I was having a stroke

Ryanrule Oct 7, 2016 6:51 PM

Well, that is as a rider. I dont drive downtown if I can avoid it. I drive to the korean and japanese food marts in the burbs, or drive up to the parents in green bay.

Near North Resident Oct 7, 2016 7:09 PM

Received an e-mail from the RNRA (aka idiot river north nimby association) and there is the finalish "plan" for wolf point that you can see here lots of details in the PDF https://gisapps.cityofchicago.org/gi...m_medium=email

heres an even higher detail pdf of the plans https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...m_medium=email

RNRA is bitching about traffic flow and other garbage per the usual

Pilton Oct 16, 2016 1:16 AM

^ ... http://archpaper.com/category/print/eavesdrop/

Looks like it is still uncertain what the heights and uses of WPE and WPS will be - despite "facts" in the linked article.

However, I was glad to see the water taxi dock close to WPE is still in the plans. Also, I liked that there seems to be some office space planned for WPS. But, WPE and WPS seem to be shorter than originally planned. Neither over 70 floors. That's discouraging and not good for the most prominent site in Chicago for a supertall.

Just have to wait and see what pops up as WPE next spring.

SamInTheLoop Oct 16, 2016 2:59 AM

^ Hey, Copernicus (Jarta), WPE's program and size are finalized - thus it's on Thursday's Plan Commission and Reilly's email. Do keep up. WPS likely not finalized......

BVictor1 Oct 20, 2016 4:05 PM

Well, the project just went before the plan commission, as a 'courtesy'. According to the developers, the reason for the changes is because the projects programming changed from office to residential rental.

The wording in Reilly's email was a politician politicking. Kissing some NIMBY ass to get points and make them think it was him.

I mentioned that the square footage change needs to be shifted to the south tower. I said the south tower needs to be monumental and special as that site to too important.

Chris Kennedy was there.

harryc Oct 20, 2016 5:32 PM

One last look - before the moon is forever blocked by the new towers....

sentinel Oct 21, 2016 4:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7598889)
Well, the project just went before the plan commission, as a 'courtesy'. According to the developers, the reason for the changes is because the projects programming changed from office to residential rental.

The wording in Reilly's email was a politician politicking. Kissing some NIMBY ass to get points and make them think it was him.

I mentioned that the square footage change needs to be shifted to the south tower. I said the south tower needs to be monumental and special as that site to too important.

Chris Kennedy was there.

GOOD, glad you said that.

I'm wondering if the developer is going to use the lower height of WP East as a bargaining chip to increase the height of WP South? Is that even possible?

Kumdogmillionaire Oct 21, 2016 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sentinel (Post 7599943)
GOOD, glad you said that.

I'm wondering if the developer is going to use the lower height of WP East as a bargaining chip to increase the height of WP South? Is that even possible?

I know that's exactly what they did for Wanda Vista when they decided to drop the proposed height of Lot O, so I'm sure there are some legal groundings in place for that sort of move

BVictor1 Oct 21, 2016 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 7600121)
I know that's exactly what they did for Wanda Vista when they decided to drop the proposed height of Lot O, so I'm sure there are some legal groundings in place for that sort of move

I mentioned that as well.

ardecila Oct 29, 2016 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 7600121)
I know that's exactly what they did for Wanda Vista when they decided to drop the proposed height of Lot O, so I'm sure there are some legal groundings in place for that sort of move

Of course. The PD specifies a maximum FAR for the site and a list of approved uses. Pretty much everything else is negotiable (site plan, architectural details, building heights, etc) often at the administrative level without having to go back in front of City Council.

vexxed82 Oct 31, 2016 4:04 PM

Did a little work on 150 two weeks ago. Managed to get access to the Mart's roof for a few shots. Naturally, I took a few of WP & RP.

http://nickulivieriphotography.zenfo...59925676-5.jpg

http://nickulivieriphotography.zenfo...74299798-5.jpg

http://nickulivieriphotography.zenfo...12580726-5.jpg

Pilton Nov 7, 2016 12:51 AM

493' WPW - 500 apartments

663' WPE - 700 apartments

All that will have been built at WP when WPE is finished are 1,400 parking spaces and 1,200 apartments and nothing spectacular on probably the most prominent location in Chicago.

Unless the "missing" density is added to WPS (as ardecila points out it could be - but will it?), WP will be a disappointment. No supertall. No luxury condos, no hotel and no office space. Nothing unique on a very unique site that cries out "supertall."

Kumdogmillionaire Nov 7, 2016 4:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilton (Post 7614663)
493' WPW - 500 apartments

663' WPE - 700 apartments

All that will have been built at WP when WPE is finished are 1,400 parking spaces and 1,200 apartments and nothing spectacular on probably the most prominent location in Chicago.

Unless the "missing" density is added to WPS (as ardecila points out it could be - but will it?), WP will be a disappointment. No supertall. No luxury condos, no hotel and no office space. Nothing unique on a very unique site that cries out "supertall."

I don't want to add to the debby downer party but I'm feeling that way as well. I know height isn't everything, and the designs we see going forward are solid, but a site like this deserved something extraordinary.

VKChaz Nov 7, 2016 6:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilton (Post 7614663)
493' WPW - 500 apartments

663' WPE - 700 apartments

All that will have been built at WP when WPE is finished are 1,400 parking spaces and 1,200 apartments and nothing spectacular on probably the most prominent location in Chicago.

Unless the "missing" density is added to WPS (as ardecila points out it could be - but will it?), WP will be a disappointment. No supertall. No luxury condos, no hotel and no office space. Nothing unique on a very unique site that cries out "supertall."

Given the views and historical significance, am disappointed there will not be even one hotel at the River branch simply for the benefit of public accessibility - a high floor outdoor hotel restaurant would have been nice, for example. The Holiday Inn Mart Plaza provides some nice views today (including from the indoor bar), but I expect those to eventually be obscured.

Kngkyle Nov 7, 2016 6:27 AM

I wouldn't read too much into the proposed programming for WPS yet. It can easily change just like the programming for WPE has changed. It doesn't sound like there will be any movement on WPS until WPE is finished and that is at least 3 years away at this point.

Notyrview Dec 27, 2016 3:37 PM

I'm so stoked for WPE to start. I hope it breaks ground in Jan.

harryc Dec 27, 2016 7:59 PM

Waiting ....
 

12/19/16


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