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-   -   CHICAGO | Riverline | 8 Towers | 600FT - 500FT(X2) - 380FT(X2) - 242FT(X2) - 300FT~ (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221826)

r18tdi Aug 17, 2016 6:44 PM

A few new renderings?
 
I don't remember seeing these before:

http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/8/17/...und-next-month

And it sound like the developer has confirmed the previously reported September ground breaking target. :cheers:

the urban politician Aug 17, 2016 7:57 PM

I never before noticed that a little stream will run through the development. Nice

maru2501 Aug 17, 2016 11:50 PM

seems like maybe a river water situation

roosegoose Aug 20, 2016 3:24 AM

Long time lurker, first time poster...I was just curious if anyone has heard if a grocery store was being considered as one of the retail components or would the options along Roosevelt be the solution although not really in the immediate area? Seems like all the units being added with this project could warrant that. Maybe down the road in the later phases?

BVictor1 Aug 20, 2016 9:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosegoose (Post 7536998)
Long time lurker, first time poster...I was just curious if anyone has heard if a grocery store was being considered as one of the retail components or would the options along Roosevelt be the solution although not really in the immediate area? Seems like all the units being added with this project could warrant that. Maybe down the road in the later phases?

Welcome!

It's way too soon for that. Developers don't usually release the names of perspective tenants.

denizen467 Aug 20, 2016 9:52 AM

^ No, but announcing generically that there will be larger-scale retail tenant spaces, or even announcing that a key amenity like a grocery store will be included, is not unusual.

It's a good question - some real critical mass of residential is building up between Clark and the river. Maybe not enough for a full-scale grocery store, what with Target and others nearby, but some kind of limited market could be a successful component down the road.

Kngkyle Aug 20, 2016 9:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosegoose (Post 7536998)
Long time lurker, first time poster...I was just curious if anyone has heard if a grocery store was being considered as one of the retail components or would the options along Roosevelt be the solution although not really in the immediate area? Seems like all the units being added with this project could warrant that. Maybe down the road in the later phases?

I would say it is very likely, although perhaps not in the first phase. We wont know for awhile still.

Mr Downtown Aug 20, 2016 2:42 PM

I asked Ralph Johnson about that at last night's Friends of Downtown event and he was vague. Apparently he wanted to have the guy from Lend Lease (sitting in the back) speak up, but he didn't. Johnson just said such retail spaces might be closer to Roosevelt, and also said that master plans evolve.

10023 Aug 21, 2016 1:00 PM

It would be nice if that big open space between Roosevelt and 18th were actually turned into a park. Also build a big brick wall along the other side of the river to block the rail yards from view.

jpIllInoIs Aug 21, 2016 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 7537666)
It would be nice if that big open space between Roosevelt and 18th were actually turned into a park. Also build a big brick wall along the other side of the river to block the rail yards from view.

:koko:
You must be joking.
Have you not been paying attention to the premium development along Chicago's downtown riverfront over the past 20 years?
And as for the wall of the rail yards. Well thats just disrespectful of all things that made Chicago great and continue to be great about the city. Why not put a christo sheet over the 21st street bridge?

BVictor1 Aug 22, 2016 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 7537666)
It would be nice if that big open space between Roosevelt and 18th were actually turned into a park. Also build a big brick wall along the other side of the river to block the rail yards from view.

Huh? What? :koko:

There's a park 1/4 mile to the east buy the name of Grant.

alex1 Aug 22, 2016 12:49 AM

Love the boardwalk along the river. Good choice to have a natural tapering from land to water.

Mr Downtown Aug 22, 2016 1:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 7538031)
There's a park 1/4 mile to the east by the name of Grant.

From the south end of River City, it's a .76 mile walk to Grant Park. It's a full mile to the nearest athletic field.

That's why I fought the British School change so fiercely.

wierdaaron Aug 23, 2016 3:10 PM

Riverline Site

http://i.imgur.com/hrzM9Ucl.jpg


Why's the whole area covered in a smoothed-over layer smashed up bricks and debris? It looks intentionally put there. Why?

r18tdi Aug 23, 2016 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wierdaaron (Post 7539699)
Why's the whole area covered in a smoothed-over layer smashed up bricks and debris? It looks intentionally put there. Why?

I forget what it's specifically called, but I believe the bricks are there to support the weight of the caisson rigs.

Someone else on here can chime in with a better explanation. :cheers:

harryc Aug 23, 2016 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wierdaaron (Post 7539699)
Riverline Site

http://i.imgur.com/hrzM9Ucl.jpg


Why's the whole area covered in a smoothed-over layer smashed up bricks and debris? It looks intentionally put there. Why?

The site has been leveled - makes drilling holes straight down much easier ;-) . also covers up the numerous holes from where stuff was dug up (see pile on the left of your shot).

(nice color btw).

The Best Forumer Aug 23, 2016 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by munchymunch (Post 7387572)

I dont like the look of those load bearing angled columns that meet at the ground... UGH.

LouisVanDerWright Aug 23, 2016 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r18tdi (Post 7539804)
I forget what it's specifically called, but I believe the bricks are there to support the weight of the caisson rigs.

Someone else on here can chime in with a better explanation. :cheers:

I believe the debris is called "brickbat" which is basically just a term for brick rubble usually re purposed from demo jobs. The process of clearing out and leveling the site with brickbat is called "potholing" which is self explanatory. You don't want your multi million dollar equipment sinking in a soft spot and tipping over.

Randomguy34 Aug 23, 2016 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright (Post 7540197)
I believe the debris is called "brickbat" which is basically just a term for brick rubble usually re purposed from demo jobs. The process of clearing out and leveling the site with brickbat is called "potholing" which is self explanatory. You don't want your multi million dollar equipment sinking in a soft spot and tipping over.

And this is what happens when you don't take the extra precautions to set them evenly in soft ground (of course, drilling into bedrock always helps)

http://archpaper.com/2016/08/san-fra...tower-sinking/

marothisu Aug 31, 2016 12:14 PM

Permit issued yesterday for the foundation of one of the buildings.... 27 stories, 452 units :)

SamInTheLoop Aug 31, 2016 1:27 PM

^ Nice. 'Bout time!

marothisu Aug 31, 2016 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamInTheLoop (Post 7547343)
^ Nice. 'Bout time!

Yep. For anyone wondering too, it's Building D, which is basically at Polk & Wells right near where 801 S Financial is U/C (http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/25/...wer-south-loop).

Jim in Chicago Aug 31, 2016 5:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7547306)
Permit issued yesterday for the foundation of one of the buildings.... 27 stories, 452 units :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marothisu (Post 7547590)
Yep. For anyone wondering too, it's Building D, which is basically at Polk & Wells right near where 801 S Financial is U/C (http://chicago.curbed.com/2016/3/25/...wer-south-loop).

The article talks about 33 stories and more units. Downsizing?

marothisu Aug 31, 2016 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago (Post 7547663)
The article talks about 33 stories and more units. Downsizing?

I think you're getting confused. Riverline is not 801 S Financial Pl. Riverline, at least this building is 720 S Wells. I was providing a link to 801 S Financial so people will remember what that project was (which is a floor or two off the ground now).

Skyguy_7 Aug 31, 2016 11:42 PM

There's new signage up just West of the corner of Wells and Harrison. It's big, eye catching and a beauty of a rendering!

aaron38 Sep 1, 2016 5:00 AM

^^^Is the rendering one we haven't seen before?

BVictor1 Sep 1, 2016 5:56 PM

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/reale...ouch-the-river

Quote:

September 01, 2016
For 3,700-home South Loop project, architects aim to 'touch the river'

By Dennis Rodkin

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

For a weedy 14-acre tract of land along the South Branch of the Chicago River, architect Ralph Johnson has drawn up plans for a series of modern residential towers, public green spaces and a "soft," environmentally friendly connection with the river.

The developers of the property, a joint venture of CMK and Lendlease, expect to break ground on the project in mid-September, beginning the first of several buildings in a 3,700-unit residential community called Riverline.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

"It's not a single building, it's a neighborhood, and that gives us room to do things that really make a difference in the way people live along the river," said Johnson, global design director at Perkins & Will who has designed Chicago buildings including the Boeing headquarters, O'Hare airport's international terminal and a trio of edgy condo towers north, west and south of the Loop.

Riverline's use of a naturalistic river edge in place of the customary stark seawalls—a fundamental piece of Perkins & Will's approach—will be visible in the first phase of work. All the project's green space, 5.8 acres, is part of the first phase, along with the first two buildings—a 452-unit apartment tower called Ancora and a 282-condominium building called Current. The green space includes parklike areas both north and south of the existing River City building, as well as more than half a mile of new riverwalk from Harrison Street to Roosevelt Road.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/apps/...20160901120945

Quote:

As Riverline develops over the course of years, the design of future buildings now on the boards may change. One pie-in-the-sky possibility is an 80-story tower made of wood instead of steel. Timber construction has captured the imagination of architects, including Johnson, who want to build tall buildings with lighter-weight, renewable resources in place of energy-intensive steel. Working with Cambridge University, Perkins & Will designed the wood tower for a site at the north end of Riverline, but Johnson said that at the moment it's largely an academic exercise. "A lot would have to happen for that to get built, but it was something we looked into," he said.

Skyguy_7 Sep 1, 2016 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 7548467)
^^^Is the rendering one we haven't seen before?

It's the top one on Bvic's post, above

marothisu Sep 1, 2016 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyguy_7 (Post 7548957)
It's the top one on Bvic's post, above

Are you sure? The permit is for a 27 story building. The first two from his pics above are under 20 stories.

Jibba Sep 1, 2016 8:54 PM

They're talking about what's in the rendering that's on a banner up at the site, not the permitted building.

Zerton Sep 1, 2016 10:22 PM

Kinda reminds me of Parco Vittoria in Milan. The lowrise portions at least.

http://www.interimmobili.it/public/gallery/P1/10.jpg

Source: http://www.interimmobili.it

go go white sox Sep 1, 2016 10:52 PM

Nice renders this is really going to change the south loop and trigger the beginning of a whole new side of Chicago. This project is like adding downtown Evanston in one parcel of land lol (I'm exaggerating) but can you guys imagine what related Midwest has in stored on the much bigger parcel south of this, going to be like a city within a city.

KWILLSKYLINE Sep 2, 2016 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 7540248)
And this is what happens when you don't take the extra precautions to set them evenly in soft ground (of course, drilling into bedrock always helps)

http://archpaper.com/2016/08/san-fra...tower-sinking/



^^^^^^
http://sf.curbed.com/2016/8/9/124167...ng-sf-building

spyguy Sep 10, 2016 8:03 PM

https://s21.postimg.org/9i7lndz7r/Cr...Uk_AAw8t_L.jpg

Will be interesting to see what the owners of Harrison & Wells do - hopefully go big.

chris08876 Sep 10, 2016 8:25 PM

IMO, this is slightly underwhelming for the area. Shame they really can't really capitalize on this location ( The huge, elongated tract on which this is being built on) . 7,000 units would be the sweet spot as opposed to 3,700. Given the walkability of the area, in the CBD or on the fringes of it, would be worthwhile.

Kumdogmillionaire Sep 10, 2016 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 7556967)
IMO, this is slightly underwhelming for the area. Shame they really can't really capitalize on this location ( The huge, elongated tract on which this is being built on) . 7,000 units would be the sweet spot as opposed to 3,700. Given the walkability of the area, in the CBD or on the fringes of it, would be worthwhile.

Gonna have to go and disagree completely. There isn't even enough infrastructure in place to manage 3700 new units let alone 7000. 7000 units would cause such a clusterfuck in new traffic on very small and out of the way routes. That would create so many problems, also the demand for 7000 units wouldn't fulfill the potential of the area. There is no demand for 7000 units there, therefore there isn't a missed potential.

pilsenarch Sep 10, 2016 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 7556967)
IMO, this is slightly underwhelming for the area. Shame they really can't really capitalize on this location ( The huge, elongated tract on which this is being built on) . 7,000 units would be the sweet spot as opposed to 3,700. Given the walkability of the area, in the CBD or on the fringes of it, would be worthwhile.

Agree with this... infrastructure can follow... people adapt... for god's sake, it's in walking distance to everything...

MiamiSpartan Sep 11, 2016 1:01 AM

If I was to move back home, this neighborhood would be up near the top of places to live....
:tup:

BrinChi Sep 11, 2016 3:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 7556967)
IMO, this is slightly underwhelming for the area. Shame they really can't really capitalize on this location ( The huge, elongated tract on which this is being built on) . 7,000 units would be the sweet spot as opposed to 3,700. Given the walkability of the area, in the CBD or on the fringes of it, would be worthwhile.

Ok trying to determine the population density...

13 acres = 0.0203 square miles;
3700 units. Let's conservatively say 1.5 residents per unit. That's 5,550 residents.
5,550/0.0203 = 274,000 people per square mile.

Assuming my math is correct... isn't this plenty dense?

Randomguy34 Sep 11, 2016 3:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrinChi (Post 7557241)
Ok trying to determine the population density...

13 acres = 0.0203 square miles;
3700 units. Let's conservatively say 1.5 residents per unit. That's 5,550 residents.
5,550/0.0203 = 274,000 people per square mile.

Assuming my math is correct... isn't this plenty dense?

IIRC, that's denser than most of the tracts in the Upper East Side. This is not even taking into account that the Harrison/Wells site also has potential to be pretty dense

chris08876 Sep 11, 2016 4:03 AM

Has nothing to do with density, but how developers in general don't capitalize on the idea that many people want units close to the CBD or in the CBD, without paying an extraordinary amount. A project like this could cater to millennials, couples, your everyday office worker who is in the area. Essentially a great location for affordable housing.

I believe the demand is there to make a project in the range of 3.7k + feasible, and one that caters to people who live outside of the CBD (who would love to live there but can't afford the rent/unit.

For the time table that this project has (isn't it 2023-25 tentatively), a much larger project could work, in which, the phases would absorb "X" amount of units sold, and move on to the next phase.

Its great project, don't get me wrong, but I just think its another example of developers in America not catering enough to make a dent in the housing crisis and/or making our cities accessible to people who would like to live there. Aggressive marketing and sales is the key.

A project like this wouldn't really be a burden on the infrastructure assuming it has limited parking and caters to those who walk or take the bus.

If you build it, they will come. Developers don't need to sell 100% of the units right away. They often take the risk of waiting; in some cases, towers can take years to fill up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumdogmillionaire (Post 7557021)
There is no demand for 7000 units there, therefore there isn't a missed potential.

I'm not saying short term, but over a decade. Essentially the time line of the project and a little after. The demand is there. If they price these units at a reasonable price that caters to your people or couples making 60-120k, they will sell units easily.

ardecila Sep 11, 2016 4:31 AM

^ You can't apply a New York lens to Chicago. It's a very different market, there is not a bottomless well of demand for highrise living with zero lake views. CMK has been operating here for decades, and in the South Loop specifically.

Let's compare two previous mega-developments in Chicago, Lakeshore East and Central Station. Both are on the lakefront, both are similar size, and both are Loop-adjacent. Central Station embraced a mix of housing types, with highrises alongside townhouse developments and a few midrises thrown in. Lakeshore East went all-in on highrises.

Today, Central Station is pretty much complete while Lakeshore East will not be finished for another decade or two. Each project that Magellan does at Lakeshore East is a whole new battle with community groups, lenders, investors, etc. If a recession hits, you're not gonna build more highrises, period. On the other hand, if your master plan includes some lower-density phases, you might be able to get those off the ground even during lean times and keep your company in business.

Let's say in Chicago there are X number of people looking to buy a highrise condo, Y number of people looking to rent an apartment, and Z people looking to buy a townhouse. If you build only highrises, then your pool of customers is limited to only X+Y. If you mix up the housing types and include townhouses, your pool of customers just increased to include Z as well. Diversifying the housing types (and lowering overall density somewhat) raises your total pool of customers and, to some extent, insulates you against various kinds of risk.

marothisu Sep 11, 2016 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 7557258)
IIRC, that's denser than most of the tracts in the Upper East Side. This is not even taking into account that the Harrison/Wells site also has potential to be pretty dense

The tracts in UES vary a bit - most of them are over 100,000 ppsm, but a few are under. There's a few around 90,000 ppsm which would be almost the densest in downtown Chicago and there's a few around 60,000 ppsm which would be equivalent to downtown Chicago. However, there's numerous UES tracts at 125,000 - 200,000 ppsm.

The difference between UES and this is the amount of commercial, business, and retail though. Riverline doesn't have THAT much planned - at least compared to pretty much any avenue in UES. No comparison really at that point. Population density is nice, but if you have density and not a lot of retail, commercial, etc then it's kind of lost. People live in dense areas for a reason - sure one reason is for the proximity to work but also the ability to have a lot of mercantile options right around.

I mean quite honestly - if I had the choice of living in a place that was 15,000 ppsm with a lot of restaurants, bars, etc right around versus a place with 125,000 ppsm with not that much in the way of restaurants, bars, etc I'd take the 15,000 ppsm area in a heart beat with no hesitation.

the urban politician Sep 11, 2016 1:15 PM

^ Just because Riverline doesn't have much retail doesn't mean there isn't enough retail (or potential retail) easily within walking distance.

Also, I'm not understanding the complaints about lack of density. This project is plenty dense. It has lots of highrises on a small sliver of land, and of course it has townhomes. I like that. Townhomes break up the density, create sightlines, and humanize the space. They add to the variety of housing types, and create eyes on the street in the way that towers with podia don't. This mix creates a civilized atmosphere, and I like that Chicago has this instead of those Chinese cities with their cut and paste rows of highrises.

marothisu Sep 11, 2016 1:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 7557392)
^ Just because Riverline doesn't have much retail doesn't mean there isn't enough retail (or potential retail) easily within walking distance.

Also, I'm not understanding the complaints about lack of density. This project is plenty dense. It has lots of highrises on a small sliver of land, and of course it has townhomes. I like that. Townhomes break up the density, create sightlines, and humanize the space. They add to the variety of housing types, and create eyes on the street in the way that towers with podia don't. This mix creates a civilized atmosphere, and I like that Chicago has this instead of those Chinese cities with their cut and paste rows of highrises.

Yeah, there is some commercial/retail within walking distance. I never said that - just saying you can't compare an immediate area (i.e. walk downstairs and have options right away) with a lack of retail/commercial to an area like Upper East Side no matter how dense it is.

Anyway, if the math on that is correct and it would be around 275,000 ppsm, then that's very dense by any first world standard.

spyguy Sep 11, 2016 4:23 PM

Quote:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/stretch-...ver-1473586213

Stretch of Chicago River to Get $1.5 Billion Makeover
High-rises, townhomes planned for undeveloped area south of downtown Loop with Riverline project, adding to a frenzy of construction along the waterway


A once-gritty stretch along the Chicago River across from an industrial sprawl of concrete and train tracks is headed for transformation as a $1.5 billion development of high-rises, townhomes and a public river walk breaks ground Monday.
The article still mentions that Phase 1 will be the 29 story apartment building, 18 story condo building, and 62 townhomes.

spyguy Sep 11, 2016 4:30 PM

Also looks like the Riverline website has some actual content on it now: http://www.riverlinechicago.com/

https://s17.postimg.org/63f33f0ov/co...background.jpg
https://s18.postimg.org/9yvxqfdop/image1.jpghttps://s18.postimg.org/pt1ytjstl/riverwalk.png

Randomguy34 Sep 11, 2016 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spyguy (Post 7557459)
http://www.wsj.com/articles/stretch-of-chicago-river-to-get-1-5-billion-makeover-1473586213

Looks like the article also give some bits of information for Related's plot of land:

Quote:

Riverline isn't the only project changing the face of the river in South Loop. Related Midwest is planing to invest billions to build up an even bigger plot of overgrow riverfront directly south of Riverline, the company said in an e-mail

The 62-acre site will unite Riverline with Chinatown in the south and is expected to be complete in around 15 years, thought Related Midwest hasn't released specifics.

LouisVanDerWright Sep 11, 2016 5:36 PM

There is plenty of retail already by Riverline that desperately needs demand to fill up. There is 500,000 sf of it in the River City mall that has sat vacant for decades. It's owned by Marc realty and they will be quick to capitalize on it once the demand is there.

the urban politician Sep 11, 2016 5:49 PM

^ Plus I'm betting ground level retail will start humming across the street on Wells St once the demand is there


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