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ethereal_reality Aug 30, 2013 2:08 AM

oops. sorry

Stage Squint Aug 30, 2013 2:20 AM

The Hollywood Bowl still utilizes a sun shade on many afternoons. Due to the lighting "halo" that extends downstage of the proscenium, it is rigged differently than this one. Also, after performances, the last job for the riggers and carpenters is to stretch netting across the entire opening to keep out birds. ER's photo shows that the reflecting pool is covered. Setting and striking the cover, I am told, was a miserable job as the stringers were massive and the decking was double plywood. In the 1950's the Bowl was on train tracks and could be pushed off-right behind the hill (where restrooms are today) to facilitate other events such as pageants and grand operas.

ethereal_reality Aug 30, 2013 2:28 AM

:previous: Thank you for the information Stage Squint.
I never contemplated all the behind-the-scenes details of a performance at the Hollywood Bowl.
-very naive of me.
__

Tourmaline Aug 30, 2013 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 6249284)
-another man and his newspaper, this time in Westlake Park, circa 1905
http://imageshack.us/a/img819/6602/imzs.jpg
ebay
I can't figure out where in Westlake Park this was taken.

Is it just me, or does the statue to the left of reading man resemble a golem with outstretched arms?

_


Did Westlake have a bridle path? I doubt the statue was designed for that purpose, but the outstretched arm struck me as a logical place to hitch em up. ;)



Not sure how to resurrect a question from a recent post, but since you reposted Sister Aimee's ivy covered Manhattan Place diggs . . . damn the torpedoes . . . does anyone know anything about the Temple Towers Apartment Hotel, Inc. project? Where it was to be located? I am guessing that mundane things like the depression and various church power struggles may have influenced any ultimate decision to proceed. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...ostcount=16359

http://jpg3.lapl.org/pics10/00024543.jpg

And further on the subject of Aimee, I spent time looking for a connection with her and Nat Goodwin . . . that wasn't. I optimistically sought a connection between the two and was equally disappointed. In any case, I perused a few contemporary publications and found most reports dealt with Goodwin's performances, but his personal life was the subject of several articles. Goodwin was a mining "entrepreneur," US Customs officials retained his wife's trunks due to duty avoidance, and as an indirect tie-in with something on this thread, there was a report that Goodwin's late money on a celebrated Jim Jeffries' fight in Reno dramatically reduced the bookmakers' going odds.

Returning to Aimee for a moment, there has been a lot written about her and apparently much of it by herself.

From a recent biography:

Quote:

McPherson arrived in Los Angeles in 1918 with her children and her mother, who helped run the temple for many years. (They eventually parted ways when, in an argument about church business, Aimee punched Minnie and broke her nose.) The preacher's healthy ego (at age 20, she wrote a 686-page autobiography) grew with her fame. Predictably, so did her loneliness. Her own church doctrine, the Foursquare Gospel, prohibited remarriage during the lifetime of a former spouse; but McPherson, a voluptuous woman (who, as Sutton describes, put some carnality into the biblical metaphor of the Church as the Bride of Christ) had a number of dalliances before her eventual, and failed, third marriage. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/06/books/bk-gross6
To reiterate, Aimee only showed up a year before Nat Goodwin final fight for his eyesight and his eventual demise. I was praying for a miracle meeting between two colorful show biz personalities. Then there's the story about Milton Berle and Aimee, but I digress. Ahem.

Tourmaline Aug 30, 2013 3:23 AM

Beating a dead Aimee?

Quote:

In 1926, when she disappeared for more than a month, the New York Times published almost 100 stories about the saga -- about the same number devoted the previous year to the Scopes trial. Her career probably could not have happened anywhere but in Los Angeles: Johnny Mercer's lyrics for "Hooray for Hollywood" boasted that "anyone at all from Shirley Temple / to Aimee Semple is equally understood." Yet she had powerful critics: Sinclair Lewis, Upton Sinclair and Frank Capra made scathing fictional treatments of McPherson. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/06/books/bk-gross6
Frank Capra is probably best remembered for certain Hollywood Classics, and not for a connection with or disaffection for Aimee. Possibly less of a reason to remember him is that he is an Alumnus of the School that in 1920 donned the moniker, "California Institute of Technology."

It may be of passing interest that someone who lectured at Cal Tech in the early '30s also stayed at the Ambassador Hotel (very close to Aimee's Manhattan Place location) and attended dinners at the Hollywood Roosevelt and the Biltmore. Not aware of any connection with Nat Goodwin. Sigh.

At what Pasadena location did this world famous Physicist hang his trousers?


Albert Einstein's bungalow residence while he was a visiting lecturer at Cal Tech - in 1931. And it's still there. (AE taught during the winters of '32 and '33 but then resided at Caltech's faculty club, the Athenaeum.

707 South Oakland Avenue. Designed by Wallace Neff in '24 for Henriette Stowell.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics31/00050158.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics31/00050158.jpg

A happy luncheon honoring Albert E. (Could the same touchup artist who worked on Aimee's Manhattan Pl home have applied the same talent to some of these luncheneers?)
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics40/00039972.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics40/00039972.jpg


Circa 1931. Mrs. A. (The angle of the photo is from the source. Those of you with a sense of humor, rotate your monitors. Those without a sense of humor, get one. Sorry, if this is offensive!)
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics37/00038111.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics37/00038111.jpg

Another undated "action" shot of Albert E reportedly taken on campus.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics32/00035513.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics32/00035513.jpg

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045855.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045855.jpg



"Three Nobel Prize winners, front row: A. A. Michelson, Albert Einstein, Robert A. Millikan. Back row: Walter S. Adams, Walther Mayer, Max Ferrrand. In front of the Athenaeum, Caltech, 1931"
http://www.einstein.caltech.edu/images/slideshow/9.jpghttp://www.einstein.caltech.edu/images/slideshow/9.jpg


Undated and specifically unidentified location. It is inferentially the interior of 707 South Oakland, but don't bet with Nat G on it!
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045861.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics22/00045861.jpg


The Throop Chemical Building on Cal Tech's Campus. Could this have been where AE lectured?

1920 - Quaint and clean, perfect for scholarly pursuits including development of the Richter Scale. Not confused with the Richfield Tower. :no:
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...X68CLYGMCK.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...X68CLYGMCK.jpg

http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...UNVB7CNYIQ.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...UNVB7CNYIQ.jpg

Tourmaline Aug 30, 2013 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BifRayRock (Post 6247967)

1914 ?? (Still relying on Equine Power!) Station No. 14 3401 S. Central Avenue (Is it really '14? DWP suggests structure was used from 1900-02 as Chemical Engine Co. No. 2, and then from '02 to '19 as Company No. 14.
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GJK4M5SV5I.jpghttp://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...GJK4M5SV5I.jpg

Impressive Church spire in the background. Does it still exist? Station was long ago demolished, with a replacement nearby. There is a Church in the neighborhood, but using the bird's eye feature did not reveal a spire similar to that pictured above in 1914.

Tourmaline Aug 30, 2013 3:57 AM

File this photo under "furnish your own caption."

Source mislabel's this photo as Albert Einstein at Cal Tech. Sorry, but that's not Albert Einstein, nor is it Ignacy Jan Paderewski. Offhand, I do recognize Nobel winner Robert A. Millikan, at the far right. Not even sure it's Cal Tech, as it reminds me of the Huntington. BUT - notice the Golem'esq statue in the background. [ISome might argue Westlake Park had one just like it[/I]!.

Quote:

A meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science at the California Institute of Technology in the 1920s or 1930s. View 1: group photo shows Albert Einstein standing in the middle, wearing a dark suit. View 2: group photo shows Albert Einstein (left), shaking hands.
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics31/00035441.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics31/00035441.jpg

1931 - Albert E greets California Governor James Rolph, Jr. at his residence :previous:
http://www.einstein.caltech.edu/images/slideshow/10.jpghttp://www.einstein.caltech.edu/images/slideshow/10.jpg

Lorendoc Aug 30, 2013 5:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 6248682)
After discovering this thread, one thing that kept bringing me back (and motivated me to contribute) was the polite, almost genteel feel of Noirish Los Angeles.

I completely agree about the tone of this thread. The troll factor is low here, which lets me keep reading. And, 3940dxer, the LMI would have remained unfound without your pictures, input, and willingness to commit misdemeanor trespass with me :P

Godzilla Aug 30, 2013 5:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3940dxer (Post 6249251)
Following up on my recent Santa Fe Avenue post, here are a few more shots from that weekend. Presented in monochrome, to capture the Noir mood.


Acme Wiping Materials Co. Filtering waste and sterilized wiping -- why settle for less? 1327 Palmetto Street.

http://dkse.net/david/SF.Ave/Acme.Wiping.bw.jpg


Excellent eye (or eyes)!

Coincidental to your posting I had noticed a confusing (to me) sign for "Sterilized Wiring." Your post clarified things. ( When it comes to waste, why settle for more? :no:)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/...04009f81bd.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/...04009f81bd.jpg


These "color" photos do far less justice than yours. As you are probably well aware, the building is available for filming, inside and out.


http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1220/1...d6d_z.jpg?zz=1http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1220/1...d6d_z.jpg?zz=1



___________________________


Also, thank you (and Lorendoc) for exploring Laurel Canyon's mountain jungles and the Santa Fe trail, er um Avenue. Please be careful, because many of us look forward to more of your camera safaris. Just remember to "Bring 'em back alive!"




Something a little off base, for you or anyone else familiar with the various "passes" between LA proper and the Valley. Aside from Cahuenga Pass, did any of the other passes have street cars - on tracks? (Not referring to America's first Trackless Trolley.) The question is prompted by an "Elder's" recollection of street car traffic either on Benedict, Coldwater, or Franklin Canyon. I have consulted the usual maps, but do not see any of the passes (except for Cahuenga) marked. That doesn't mean the trolley traffic wasn't tried, even experimentally, but I don't recall seeing anything about this.

There might be a slight "sliver" of truth to this thought because there are references to a Coldwater Canyon Line and evidence of what looks like a spur line to the mouth of Coldwater, but not clear there were tracks that led "up and over".

Due to size, link here: http://i.imgur.com/8KKWO.jpg




___________________________






Home built for Thomas and Udora Thorkildsen in 1912. Later purchased by oilman Kirk B. Johnson, and in the 1930s, it came to be known as the Keith Estate. Demolished in the '60s for subdivision.

http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics40/00054610.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics40/00054610.jpg

Undated image of Coldwater, or at least that's what the LAPL says.
http://jpg2.lapl.org/pics40/00054518.jpghttp://jpg2.lapl.org/pics40/00054518.jpg

1920 - Coldwater and surrounds, including Summit Drive (mentioned several times on this thread.)

http://jpg1.lapl.org/00075/00075010.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/00075/00075010.jpg

ProphetM Aug 30, 2013 6:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Those Who Squirm (Post 6248902)
Is this picture supposed to show the raising of the first marker? If it's near the Plaza Church I'd expect to be able to recognize some of the buildings in the background, but I can't. Unless it's in the back of the church which might explain it. That whole block, pretty much, is a parking lot now.

Here's the pic again (man I hate the lack of nested quotes!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psc47f85c7.jpg
bell cal via CityBoyDoug

I think the building on the far left was located next to the Lugo House. Compare the pattern of the arched window and upper brickwork to the building at far right in these two photos:

http://waterandpower.org/Historical_.../Lugo_1938.jpg
DWP

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/c...s/012479pv.jpg
loc.gov, posted earlier in this thread

So the bell-raising shot is looking across the plaza. Here's another shot from californiabell.com, also dated 1906 so I am supposing it is the same event:

http://www.californiabell.com/photos...llblessing.jpg

This one is obviously at the plaza, with the Pico House and Brunswig Building clearly visible. The bell was apparently at the plaza and not directly in front of the church as it is now. This basically agrees with the bell-raising photo I think. This also means that the building at far right in the bell-raising pic must be the old firehouse, the only building in the shot that's still there.

Referring back to the bell-raising pic - the building in the background with visible windows (beneath the bell) would become the home of Soochow Restaurant. I think the part that says "Congress" is the back side of a building facing Alameda Street. One more building to the right (without visible windows) would be the future site of Jerry's Joynt.

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1788/sj1d.jpg
From earlier in this thread but I'm not sure where

Here's another shot of those buildings, next to the Lugo House:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7...hina1a1949.jpg
calisphere via ethereal_reality earlier in the thread

I was not able to find a name for the arch-windowed building next to the Lugo adobe, but in a 1951 photo of the Lugo house being torn down, that building is already gone.

CityBoyDoug Aug 30, 2013 2:31 PM

El Camino Real
 
On a (presumably) hot day in August, 1906, the first El Camino Real Mission Bell was installed near historic Olvera Street in downtown Los Angeles.
Exactly 100 years later to the day, Caltrans celebrated installation of the newest Mission Bell right across the street from the original bell.

Thank you Prophet M for your good research.!

MichaelRyerson Aug 30, 2013 3:01 PM

In the long run, these may be useful. In the short run,
 
they answer a recent question...

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5463/9...e8e70746_b.jpg
sanbornabbrv 1 copy


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5547/9...43cd8c3c_b.jpg
sanbornabbrv 2 copy

ethereal_reality Aug 30, 2013 3:21 PM

:previous: That list should be very helpful MR. It's fascinating to read as well.
__

ethereal_reality Aug 30, 2013 9:12 PM

333 S. Manhattan Place
http://imageshack.us/a/img833/5987/jtdg.jpg
LAPL via gsjansen


I bet the architect that designed Sister Aimee's chalet-like home above, also designed the home in the photograph below.
This is merely a guess mind you.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/4373/bvtd.jpg
http://www.kcet.org/
__

Those Who Squirm! Aug 30, 2013 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godzilla (Post 6249476)
Something a little off base, for you or anyone else familiar with the various "passes" between LA proper and the Valley. Aside from Cahuenga Pass, did any of the other passes have street cars - on tracks? (Not referring to America's first Trackless Trolley.) The question is prompted by an "Elder's" recollection of street car traffic either on Benedict, Coldwater, or Franklin Canyon. I have consulted the usual maps, but do not see any of the passes (except for Cahuenga) marked. That doesn't mean the trolley traffic wasn't tried, even experimentally, but I don't recall seeing anything about this.

There might be a slight "sliver" of truth to this thought because there are references to a Coldwater Canyon Line and evidence of what looks like a spur line to the mouth of Coldwater, but not clear there were tracks that led "up and over".

I grew up in Coldwater (born 1958). Although by that time any trolley line would have been long gone anyway, I'm almost certain there was never any kind of public transit through the canyon. I see what looks like a spur on a 1912 PE system map, but from remembering that the main line of tracks through the area ran along Santa Monica Boulevard, this spur must have run up only to about where Sunset and Beverly Drive meet today. There wouldn't have been enough people living in Coldwater or the Valley to justify a rail line when PE was still building them.

Franklin Canyon was never developed, at least not to any great extent, and today is part of the Santa Monica Mountains National Recreation Area.

Laurel Canyon had a trackless trolley during the 1910s, but I don't know if it was in service very long. According to this dude's blog the trolley only ran as far as the peak of Lookout Mountain.

The mountain contours in your pictures look so familiar to me, but I can't place them. Is one of them looking south approximately where Harvard-Westlake is today? Across the Avenue from the school there is a clutch of frame houses with white clapboarding and green trim (or at least that was how they looked years ago when I saw them last). They look very old, but unfortunately I am not able to find any information on the houses. On the County Assessor's maps, for every parcel I can find opposite the school, it simply says that no building information is available.

In the PE map you linked to, I'd like to know what "High Bridge" was, midway between "Country Club" and Sawtelle. Country Club, of course, is the L.A.C.C., which reminds me of an interesting bit of trivia I recently read elsewhere. In the early days, members often rode the trolley to this stop, about where Santa Monica and Wilshire intersect today. This point is still a good distance from the clubhouse, so on arrival the member would hoist a pennant to announce his arrival. Seeing the pennant, somebody up at the club would drive down to meet him.

MrPoe Aug 31, 2013 12:09 AM

Does anyone know if floorplans to the old Camarillo State Mental hospital are available? I know generic ones are that label the units. I'm looking for actual floorplans that detail the interiors, however.

Tourmaline Aug 31, 2013 1:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Those Who Squirm (Post 6250399)
I'm almost certain there was never any kind of public transit through the canyon. I see what looks like a spur on a 1912 PE system map, but from remembering that the main line of tracks through the area ran along Santa Monica Boulevard, this spur must have run up only to about where Sunset and Beverly Drive meet today. There wouldn't have been enough people living in Coldwater or the Valley to justify a rail line when PE was still building them.

I can't offer much personal knowledge about the contours or what may have run where. I agree that the need for public or mass transit probably never existed in the Hills of Beverly. Ridership was probably the single most important concern; however, maintaining easements and rites-of-way can have their own rewards. Looking at the same map, there probably were plenty of seats available on trips toward Sylmar until WW2. As far as unsupported rumors though, I have heard a few concerning scaled down personal railroads in the area, similar to those popularized by Walt Disney and Travel Town.

Actress-singer Ginny Simms might have had a good feel for the older shots of Coldwater. Ginny apparently had a local TV show on Channel 11, but it was well before my time. This is her in her Coldwater Canyon residence in '41.
http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...4P8DJTKQJ8.jpg http://catalog.library.ca.gov/exlibr...4P8DJTKQJ8.jpg

1938 - Coldwater Panorama
http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://hdl.huntington.org/utils/ajax...XT=&DMROTATE=0 For those with difficulty viewing: http://hdl.huntington.org/cdm/single.../id/4371/rec/1

1952 - Coldwater Canyon. An unsuccessful attempt to prove Einstein's theory of relativity or the first claim of "unintended-acceleration"? Or maybe the driver was inattentive while trying to tune in to a Billy Sunday sermon? Whatever the cause this looks bad.
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/co...id/42230/rec/9

http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0


Maybe someone can work some magic with this copy of a 1927 LA Suburbia map> http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/co...d/70239/rec/34



http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0
http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/utils/...yon&DMROTATE=0

Graybeard Aug 31, 2013 2:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tourmaline (Post 6249395)
A happy luncheon honoring Albert E. (Could the same touchup artist who worked on Aimee's Manhattan Pl home have applied the same talent to some of these luncheneers?)
http://jpg1.lapl.org/pics40/00039972.jpghttp://jpg1.lapl.org/pics40/00039972.jpg


http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/2781/p4mx.jpg

Godzilla Aug 31, 2013 2:52 AM

Thank you TWS for the Coldwater information. :previous:


____________________________________________



Undated, Original Raymond Station, construction of replacement station in background, behind the train. An original Raymond Station Wagon, taking passengers/baggage to and from . . . Hotel Raymond!

Viewing problems? Go here: http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/c...8/id/341/rec/5

http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0

http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0

http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


Pasadena Canning Company. NE corner of Raymond and Glenarm
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0



____________________________________________




1929 - Santa Fe Station with the conveniently close Green Hotel in the background.
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


Can't see it? Go here: http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/c...8/id/301/rec/9


http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


http://www.lmharnisch.com/images/pas_hotel_green.jpghttp://www.lmharnisch.com/images/pas_hotel_green.jpg




____________________________________________




Desirous of more modernity? Pasadena's Union Station, circa '45.

For those having difficulty seeing enlargements, here is the source: http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/c...8/id/336/rec/4

http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0


http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0



Source indicates the white building below is/was a Pep Boys. (Suppose when the UP needed new wiper blades, it was within walking distance.)
http://cdm15123.contentdm.oclc.org/u...XT=&DMROTATE=0

Godzilla Aug 31, 2013 3:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nativeangelean (Post 5050571)
http://www.thaddeuslowe.name/MLEchohouse.htm

My parents used to take us up there when we were little, it was a pretty long hike, but not too difficult. Seems the hotel was owned by the owner of the railway, Professor Thaddeus Lowe.

It's probably been mentioned as often as Sister Aimee railed against sin. Thaddeus had a residence at 923 Columbia, South Pasadena. As best as I can tell, it's still there! (As a side note, Thaddeus' granddaughter, Florence Lowe, grew up in the house. Frances is better known as Pancho Barnes, early aviatrix and founding member of the Happy Bottom Riding Club, Muroc - aka Edwards Air Force Base.

Another thing about Lowe, Thaddeus, that has probably been mentioned but overlooked (by me) was Lowe's connection with Abraham Lincoln. Thaddeus's experimentation with Balloons garnered Lincoln's attention. Lincoln's note (below) offers a tiny glimpse into the story. Lowe is also credited with being an ostensible founder of Cal Tech. Lowe observatory?

http://imgzoom.cdlib.org/Converter?i...0&w=1024&h=736



Frances Lowe, aka Pancho Barnes
http://panchobarnesfilm.com/film/ima...ancho1flat.jpghttp://panchobarnesfilm.com/film/ima...ancho1flat.jpg


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PPzc0YQUL.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61PPzc0YQUL.jpg


Why not?
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/a...hoLE110L26.jpghttp://i844.photobucket.com/albums/a...hoLE110L26.jpg


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