This seems more like an admission that the ESA probably won't deliver until at least 2023 since its availability would be crucial to establishing shuttle service to GCT and Penn.

Hoo boy if the 7 train gets to deal with a large portion of the LGA flyers by itself for a year. Think thousands of people dragging luggage on it at rush.

Open toilet, flush money.

I hate this Airtrain nonsense. An alpha city like NY needs a one seat ride to all it's airports.

Expanding the N/W would make the most sense but even a spur along the Grand Central Pkwy from Astoria Blvd to LGA would make more sense than an AirTrain from Woodside.

agreed but there is one positive. with the current cuomo route someday the airtrain could be brought on down the grand central to connect with the jfk airtrain in jamaica. an lga to jfk airtrain would be stellar as would an outer ring of transit.

In a perfect world, or even one that resembled the ability to build transit outside NYC, I would demolish the Astoria line el and bore a new subway tunnel from QP to LGA and terminating in College Park. The tunnel would have 2+2 stacked tracks, top tracks for local Astoria line service and bottom tracks for LGA express, and maybe one station where both stop, like Astoria Blvd. But all this would a) resemble the 21st century way too much and b) cost to much, therefore not even be proposed even though its the ideal solution.

^ i know, any direct rail would be best, but i think they want the separate airtrain system for safety reasons.


***

you will be able to use omny and other cards to tap in to path trains by the end of 2022:


https://www.amny.com/amp/transit/omn...ain-1.32719416

This was proposed once and Queens residents complained it would ruin the scenic nature of...GCP. I swear to god.

it's off! i was so looking forward to this -- what a disaster -- ugh



A judge has forced the city to scrap the 14th Street busway that was set to launch July 1

By Caroline Spivack Jun 28, 2019, 1:00pm EDT

more:
https://ny.curbed.com/2019/6/28/1910...busway-lawsuit

I don't think Schwartz will prevail but it's super annoying. The busway and restrictions won't have the impacts he claims and the city can prove it. It's like all the people saying there will traffic armageddon right outside the proposed congestion pricing cordon...something that hasn't happened anywhere it's been implemented.

yep lots of people hopping mad about it -- but why do i think the city is ok with it because they do not want to have to deal with the headaches :shrug:


14th Street busway supporters slam block associations' lawsuit as classist

https://www.amny.com/transit/14th-st...uit-1.33243425

pa is out on the defense re lga airtrain costs:


Port Authority defends rising LGA AirTrain cost, now at $2.05 billion

https://www.amny.com/transit/port-au...ran-1.33057339


https://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/..._768/image.jpg

If there has ever been a more thrown together, ill-conceived and politically expedient transportation project of this scope in the city I can't think of it. They could likely extend the Astoria Line for 2-3 billion.

It will probably be $3B by the time they finish.

What an enormous waste of money.

more backlash over the 14st busway lawsuit:

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/7/9/20687...usway-nyct-mta

best subway performance in years, over 80% on time, so what to they do?

reorganize to screw over andy byford -- ugh:


Subway on-time performance hits 6-year high as MTA reorganization looms


The city's subway system continued gradual improvement in June as a potentially mammoth reorganization of the MTA looms.

The MTA’s on-time performance of trains surpassed 80 percent last month for the first time in nearly six years. On-time performance measures the percentage of trains that arrive at a terminal within five minutes of their scheduled time and is a common benchmark for quality of service.

MTA officials continued to credit the Subway Action Plan, a strategy to increase maintenance, and the Save Safe Seconds program to re-evaluate speed restrictions and fix faulty speed control equipment, the latter of which the MTA believes had slowed train movements for years. New subway vacuum equipment also helped reduce train delays, allowing more efficient clearing of flammable debris from the tracks, according to the authority.


more:
https://www.amny.com/transit/subway-...nce-1.33726030

True, it is a waste because it's 3 billion for a 2 seat rail ride, when most cities around the world did it properly the first time and have a one seat ride to the airport.

My dream solution would have been to replace the Astoria line with a new bored tunnel from Queensboro Plaza to LGA and (then with one leg onto College Point & one leg south to Willets Pt connecting with LIRR & 7) with express tracks that facilitated nonstop trains from QB to a subterranean LGA station. The new line could have also added local stations in Steinway and at the foot of the Rikers bridge in anticipation of its' future re-purposing.

I know of no cities that have a true one seat ride, unless they only have one terminal, and a tiny downtown. Certainly not Paris, London or any of the heavyweights.

Paris CDG, for example, has three terminals, and only T2 is connected to RER. And RER heads to Chatelet which is a ways east of the business heart of Paris. So the only way you have a "one seat ride" is if you're lucky enough to arrive at T2 and your destination is on the RER B (highly unlikely if you're a business or leisure traveler).

Let's pretend you have unlimited money and no NIMBYs. How could you do a one seat ride to, say, JFK? There are seven terminals. Where would it go in Manhattan? Even if it went directly to Times Square it would not give most visitors a one seat ride.

The LGA Airtrain isn't ideal, but it's a huge improvement, and there's no better option, so I'll take it.

I think there is an overblown focus on one seat rides however what NY has for JFK and is proposing for LGA is effectively a three seat ride. At several billion dollars in cost this seems like an extremely wasteful investment given the PA's other needs.

Given total freedom I would have extended the N/W via subway through Astoria Heights and Jackson Heights (adding 2-3 neighborhood stations) right onto the airport property with a loop to avoid terminal constraints. Also buy all open gangway rolling stock to service the line's increase in ridership.

Whilst you are correct that there will for the majority of people never be a completely one-seat ride because the ultimate onward destination could be anywhere in a city especially for massive cities from New York to Paris, it completely ignores the whole reason for airport express services. Namely dedicated express services have dedicated train paths to segregate them from day-to-day commuter passengers and those travelling to/from a city centre and airport. They tend to have extra space for luggage, few stops, and when they do stop it is typically for onward access to other parts of a city and destinations further afield.

The problem with this LaGuardia AirTrain concept is that it replicates the same issues of getting to/from Manhattan to JFK and Newark, namely that you are forced to make a transfer regardless of your end destination, and you’re competing for non-airport passenger capacity on a train. All three of New York’s airports could easily have accommodated small branches to the LIRR and NJT lines that come close to the stations. The vast majority of infrastructure for a Newark to JFK service already exists for example.

If you are in London you can take the train from Paddington to LHR directly into whatever terminal you are going. If you live near Paddington it's a one seat ride. Otherwise it's a two to three seat usually (depending on taxi, subway line connections, etc) Most tourists/travelers would do it in 2 because they would be taking a car to the station due to luggage.

If you are in walking distance of the 7/LIRR in NY you can get to LGA in 2 seats, but most people will need 3+ seats to get there depending on subway lines/taxi, etc.

Hmm, well in a way you are right, it all depends on the city, where you are staying, the airport layout, transit system. True one seat rides of course are only for people staying/working near the terminus and where the arrival point is in the terminal of choice. For the majority of people, the airtrain is turning what is a two seat ride in many cities into a 3 seat ride, and that could be a major turn off for a lot of folks. It all depends on many factors though, and a comparison would have to be done city by city to see how air train stacks up.

That's correct. Heathrow Express provides nonstop service between all of Heathrow's terminals except T4. It runs every 15 minutes, and it only takes 15 minutes (21 minutes from T5) to get to what's more or less Central London. From there, it's a 10-minute Tube ride to Piccadilly Circus. I've never taken the HE, but I have ridden the Hong Kong MTR's Airport Express line (modeled after the HE), and it's fantastic. Whether an AirTrain or a Subway extension, neither experience would compare to what has existed in cities like London and Hong Kong for a while now. Even Toronto has its own airport-to-city rail link now in the Pearson Express.

I don't think the AirTrain is a terrible idea in and of itself. What is terrible, however, is the planned connection at Willets Point... the opposite direction of where most of the travel demand is. I understand the desire to connect with LIRR, but as has been mentioned, that's a commuter rail line that doesn't operate on a periodic schedule. Who the hell is going to take the 7 from Manhattan, LIC, or Sunnyside to outer Queens, only to backtrack 2 miles? It'll only be a great option for those who live in Flushing or Jackson Heights; otherwise, a cab makes much more sense.

I think NYC not having direct rail access to its airports isn't that big of a deal. How about finishing the SAS and improving the existing infrastructure first? The London Underground is even older than the NYC Subway, and its stations look as good as new.

Yes, this is a much bigger priority. SAS should be finished and extended to Brooklyn/Bronx. The airport connections are far from ideal, but unless you demolished the airports and rebuilt, I see no way you could ever do a one-seat ride, also because there is no true center in Manhattan.

The incremental improvements (the new Airtrain at LGA, the PATH extension to Newark and the Airtrain rebuilding/expansion at JFK) are fine, if less than ideal, for now. There are far bigger regional transit priorities.

^ Is nito correct that the infrastructure is already in place for an express rail airport link between, say, Jamaica and Grand Central? Heathrow Express shares tracks with other commuter rail services, but I don't know how it would impact LIRR or if there's capacity at Grand Central.

I think direct rail service between Jamaica and the WTC PATH Station would make sense if it's an extension of the LIRR from the Atlantic Terminal.

No, this isn't true. There's a rail line, of course, but it's at capacity into Manhattan. And Jamaica isn't JFK. There's a second LIRR tunnel into Midtown but it won't have service for a few more years (East Side Access).

JFK Airtrain was built to heavy rail/LIRR standards, so you could hypothetically run LIRR directly from JFK, but if such a service were started, it would go through Brooklyn, because that route has capacity, and they wanted to tie it into WTC reconstruction.

But additional tunneling would have to be dug, and the lower level of the WTC station would have to be finished. Bloomberg supported this extension, but it was controversial, never fully funded, and killed under DeBlasio. It may someday be resurrected but would cost billions and still won't serve most visitors, and I can think of about a dozen higher priority projects.

The AirTrain guideway was built to dimensional and electrical compatibility with LIRR but not to take the weight of existing LIRR rolling stock. The idea IIRC was that at some point in the future some sort of light weight stock could be built that could use regular LIRR trackage and AirTrain. Regulations, until recently, have made that an impossibility.

Forget Grand Central. New York Penn connects the NJT Northeast Corridor Line (for Newark) and LIRR Main Line (for JFK). Spurs on these lines (including to the LIRR Port Washington branch line for La Guardia), and you’d have one-seat rides from New York Penn to the three primary airports of New York.

These aren’t massive engineering projects; short spurs to existing lines, the introduction of digital signalling (which will be needed anyway at some point to facilitate higher frequencies) and airport express rolling stock. New York is peculiar among world cities in that it has dilapidated infrastructure whilst spending extortionate sums on projects that make little sense, compounded by lack of regional masterplanning. East Side Access and Penn Station South are incredibly ill thought out projects and would never get off the ground in Paris or London.

^ A project in Paris or London would have come in the form of a New Penn Station and ESA would have come in the form of a run-through connection between GCT and Penn instead of a stub terminal under GCT for a dozen billion dollars.

Once again, you cannot do that. The Penn tunnels are at capacity. The Penn platforms are at capacity. If you want a JFK to Penn direct link you would have to build a new tunnel. Good luck with that.

There are plans to run direct trains from JFK and LGA, but not until ESA is completed, and to Grand Central, which has capacity.

I don't know what this means. Paris and London both have massive rail projects which aren't dissimilar, and both ESA and Penn South are desperately needed projects.

Penn South is, by far, the most important transit infrastructure project in the U.S.

yes nigel nitro is being ridiculous.

gateway/penn south is the most important priority transit project in the nation.

i suggest he read up about it from news sources other than the cbc/bbc.

i dk why anyone complains about lga. i dont think anything needs to be done there. its by far the easiest airport to get to for most people. if you dont have much luggage its a two seat subway/bus trip from anywhere for $2.75. so its much cheaper than using the jfk airtrain, which btw is raising prices. or if you have lot of luggage its like $30 from manhattan by cab or car service of your choice. i mean i know people like rail service to airports, and rail is definitely needed for newark and jfk, but eh for lga.

locally though, i would prefer second avenue and some push toward triboro rx be priorities.

also, there is hope for filling in transit gaps and outer loop service with cuomo's push for new mnrr stations in the bronx ---
--- and the possibility of running this new lga airtrain down the van wyck to connect to jamaica someday.

Portal Bridge replacement
 

This would be excellent news if this bridge replacement received funding.

Portal Bridge replacement project poised to pass key milestone

Thursday, July 25, 2019
Associated Press

"NEWARK, New Jersey -- A $1.6 billion project to replace a century-old rail bridge between Newark and New York City is poised to pass a key milestone.

Federal transit officials recently indicated that the Portal North Bridge project is on track to clear a hurdle as it seeks funding to begin construction.

Last year, the project received a low rating that disqualified it from a federal grant program, in a dispute over New Jersey's funding sources. The rating is scheduled to be revisited this fall..."

https://abc7ny.com/traffic/portal-br...stone/5419241/

In the interim restricting the hours of opening that the Coast Guard agreed to have substantially helped the situation. Most of the traffic the bridge opens for is sludge barges from the waste treatment plant upriver so not exactly time sensitive cargo that should require opening the bridge at rush hour and risk melting down the NEC services.

No shit!

so all that hand wringing and hoo ha and no l-pocalypse.

basically, hanging the wires and bondo-ing up the tunnel bench wall is fine.



Speedy cable installation latest step forward in fast-moving L-train East River tunnel repair job Brooklynites once dreaded

Clayton Guse
By CLAYTON GUSE
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
JUL 28, 2019


It took a contractor just two weekends to finish a big chunk of the L-train East River tunnel repair project, which the MTA says is moving along swiftly.

Workers hung 40,000 feet of cable along a wall of the Canarsie Tunnel’s northern tube during the two weekends over the last month. Construction crews will install cable racks on the other half of the tunnel in the coming months.


more:
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...piq-story.html

The tunnel will still need a complete rebuild this just kicks it down the road...which is problem in this region.

Yeah there is no way to know how long the type of repairs they did in the Canarsie tunnel will last.

^ its supposed to last 40yrs and they are installing sensors to monitor things.



this from a vice interview with branko kleva, head of mta sandy related repairs:

The first thing I learned from our conversation is that the damage from Sandy—and the threat it poses—is not necessarily infrastructural; it’s not that the tunnel itself is about to collapse due to water damage, but that everything inside of it that makes the trains run is essentially fried. (Although they are repairing cracks and leaks in the concrete liner during the shutdown, too.) Because inside the Canarsie Tunnel is a spider-web of electrical cables, for communications, signals, emergency alarms, and, of course, power. The emergency repairs made after Sandy were temporary, explained Kleva, which is why the L runs now. But that won’t last much longer.

They think it will last 40 years. Nobody has tried to stabilize a detriorating bench wall with FRP to my knowledge. The cable racking isn't a big deal but only time will tell if not demoing all the affected bench wall was a mistake. They're rolling the dice.

by hanging the cables they don't need the bench wall. now they just don't need to tear it out, which is what they were going to do. its not a structural issue.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...uhe-story.html

The bench wall will continue to deteriorate. There is no guarantee the FRP will contain it long term.

it won't, but it doesn't matter. its no longer needed. its being repaired where necessary for any possible structural issues, and the rest covered over and monitored.

remember its purpose was to hold the wiring inside, which got soaked with salt water and ruined during sandy, but that does not compromise the structure of the tunnel, as the multiple experts noted above.

also remember they were going to tear the whole of it out, its just that by hanging the wiring and bondo-ing it up now they don't have to bother.

so let's give them some credit here, its not the hudson tunnels situation, its more similar to what they did for the montague tunnel --- and that hasn't fallen on our heads for the past five years. ;)

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).

:tup:

That the now unused bench wall is cracking and spalling concrete is the problem and that sections of it will possibly collapse in the future. Not removing it gambles that there won't be significant problems as it continues deteriorating. Should the FRP not be strong enough to retain the wall in the case of such a failure you could get concrete on the tracks. The sensor system doesn't give me a lot of comfort for agency that can't keep escalators running, it's drains unclogged, or computer systems functioning.

The MTA closed Montague for a year and the contractors tore out and rebuilt all the bench wall that was impacted, like 30K feet of it. In the Canarsie the MTA, or Cuomo rather, decided to only demo the worst parts and cover the rest.

Here is the new bench wall being installed in Montague:

https://i.imgur.com/gcuYDAG.jpg


This is what they're doing in the Canarsie instead:

https://i.imgur.com/ntyROIY.png

Will there be problems in 5 or 10 years? Probably not. After that though I wouldn't care to place a wager. The Montague repair is certain to last many decades.

except they needed to do that because they replaced the wiring the same way as it had been.

thats not what they are doing here.

they are hanging the wiring.

so that bench wall is not needed.

it won't crumble, because they will remove any crumbley sections now (perhaps up to 40% of it or so i have read), but, well, have you ever owned an old car? even if more does crumble in the future, you just remove it or re-bondo it.

you seemed worried that its holding the tunnel together or something. its not. its not integral to anything now.

Bench wall pieces on the tracks would be bad and could cause a derailment. No the tunnel won't collapse but there are risks.

as i am sure you are well aware there is a lot of crap on the tracks right now that could cause derailments.

at least the very small potentiality here will covered up and monitored --- and also it seems much of it will be tore out anyway.

the girders and crap they leave everywhere on the tracks worry me much, much more than this will, as do the el pieces falling on our heads.

The R train tubes will last 100 years that was a complete rebuild. Another Sandy like storm will most likely take out the L tunnel..

no, montague was a complete rebuild of the tunnel systems, ie., where they put the wiring and etc., not of the whole tunnel. again, this is exactly what they did:

(The Authority closed the Montague tunnel because Hurricane Sandy’s salty flood water corroded its mechanical and electrical infrastructure. The $308 million rehabilitation includes work on tracks, tunnel lighting, circuit-breaker housings, power substations, pump rooms, power cables, fans, and ducts, according to the Authority. Workers also repaired leaks in the tube and replaced thousands of bolts that hold the tunnel’s 18-foot cast iron tunnel rings in place.).


^ let's face it all that stuff will get ruined again anyway if and when we get another sandy. so canarsie will be fine as long as hanging the wiring works, which it should because it does all over the world. :tup:

I believe they also installed doors to seal off the tunnels in the event of another Sandy.

^ i know - im sure those will work fine and that all the leaks were patched. :uhh: