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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

JManc Jun 21, 2020 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957895)
And you don’t have to! You can stay the fuck at home.

As for the age discrimination point, it’s no more illegal than telling us we have to stay at home, or ordering legitimate businesses to close. None of this is normal or legal. I will do what I want, and if I’m fined I won’t pay it.

Total fucking Trumpster rhetoric...

https://ca-times.brightspotcdn.com/d...20200510-1.jpg

craigs Jun 21, 2020 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957998)
Because others are not at risk from my going out unless they make it so. And they’re not really at risk anyway, because this virus isn’t nearly as deadly as was once feared.

Your childish desire to 'do whatever you want' no matter how many people you might sicken or kill is not a compelling argument for anything at all.

dc_denizen Jun 21, 2020 5:53 PM

Right ! For example attending mass protests and riots during a pandemic is extremely selfish . How dare people

the urban politician Jun 21, 2020 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_denizen (Post 8958200)
Right ! For example attending mass protests and riots during a pandemic is extremely selfish . How dare people

:haha:

The hypocrisy of the Left keeps growing. Morally lecturing everybody and then doing exactly what they admonish others for doing.

mhays Jun 21, 2020 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957998)
Because others are not at risk from my going out unless they make it so. And they’re not really at risk anyway, because this virus isn’t nearly as deadly as was once feared.

^^This is a failure of public education, particularly the first point.

As for protests, if you can type on a computer, you can grasp the difference between being outside wearing a mask in a group vs. being inside without a mask.

craigs Jun 21, 2020 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8958207)
:haha:

The hypocrisy of the Left keeps growing. Morally lecturing everybody and then doing exactly what they admonish others for doing.

I think I can speak for decent people everywhere when I say we wish there had never been such an astonishing and hideous murder that people felt the need to protest in the first place. The response to that killing is one of outrage for what happened to that victim, and to many other victims who died in simlar circumstances--a motivation imbued with a sense of civic duty to bring much needed change in society in order to save others' lives. It is the very opposite of what motivates this Midwestern Marie Antoinette insisting the lives of all the olds and fatties in the world are worth less than a weekly fashy at some Sloane Square salon.

In any case, it turns out these COVID-19 surges in the US are not linked to the protests. If you've got links to mainstream sources reporting on data to the contrary, then produce them.

Unlike the protests, we do know for a fact that the novel coronavirus has been spread in churches--so let's see links to your posts denouncing indoor religious gatherings because they spread the disease. Or are you yourself just a politically-motivated right-wing hypocrite, and a terrible doctor?

Qubert Jun 21, 2020 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8958368)
I think I can speak for decent people everywhere when I say we wish there had never been such an astonishing and hideous murder that people felt the need to protest in the first place. The response to that killing is one of outrage for what happened to that victim, and to many other victims who died in simlar circumstances--a motivation imbued with a sense of civic duty to bring much needed change in society in order to save others' lives. It is the very opposite of what motivates this Midwestern Marie Antoinette insisting the lives of all the olds and fatties in the world are worth less than a weekly fashy at some Sloane Square salon.

In any case, it turns out these COVID-19 surges in the US are not linked to the protests. If you've got links to mainstream sources reporting on data to the contrary, then produce them.

Unlike the protests, we do know for a fact that the novel coronavirus has been spread in churches--so let's see links to your posts denouncing indoor religious gatherings because they spread the disease. Or are you yourself just a politically-motivated right-wing hypocrite, and a terrible doctor?

I'm as far from a Trump supporter as you can get, but you're basically saying that the moral underpinnings of what people are gathering for (Trump Rally vs George Floyd Protest) determine wither or not it is an appropriate behavior during a pandemic. That's not just simply partisan, it's an outright rejection of science and public health for political/social purposes.

If a Floyd protest is okay, then Trump rallies are okay. There is simply no factual, tangible or scientific argument otherwise. I'm not here to get into the right/wrongs of an individuals choice to gather for whatever reason, but here simply to state that the credibility of public officials and medical experts is on the line. If (when) the next pandemic hits, you're sowing the seeds of mass disobedience that will inevitably lead to tragedy.

If one subset of society suffers (Blacks, Hispanics, Essential workers, Trump-world, whoever...) we all will feel the effects. Viruses don't care about politics, police brutality, race or moral superiority. At some point the medical/political elites need to realize their ability to dispense socially and ideologically unbiased advise is critical to saving lives. Failure to do so not only leaves blood on their hands, but will fan the flames of the very social movements you abhor.

SIGSEGV Jun 21, 2020 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qubert (Post 8958389)
I'm as far from a Trump supporter as you can get, but you're basically saying that the moral underpinnings of what people are gathering for (Trump Rally vs George Floyd Protest) determine wither or not it is an appropriate behavior during a pandemic. That's not just simply partisan, it's an outright rejection of science and public health for political/social purposes.

If a Floyd protest is okay, then Trump rallies are okay. There is simply no factual, tangible or scientific argument otherwise. I'm not here to get into the right/wrongs of an individuals choice to gather for whatever reason, but here simply to state that the credibility of public officials and medical experts is on the line. If (when) the next pandemic hits, you're sowing the seeds of mass disobedience that will inevitably lead to tragedy.

If one subset of society suffers (Blacks, Hispanics, Essential workers, Trump-world, whoever...) we all will feel the effects. Viruses don't care about politics, police brutality, race or moral superiority. At some point the medical/political elites need to realize their ability to dispense socially and ideologically unbiased advise is critical to saving lives. Failure to do so not only leaves blood on their hands, but will fan the flames of the very social movements you abhor.

I participated in /helped organize a march a few weeks ago (UChicago astrophysics/cosmology). One of the reason we felt we needed to have our own march is that many of us did not feel comfortable participating in more general marches where we could not enforce face coverings and social distancing. Still, many of the police officers that showed up were not wearing masks, but they didn't get too close, fortunately. Also, obviously, we were outdoors and discouraged anybody symptomatic from joining. Some people also wore eye coverings (I did, partially because it was my responsibility to communicate with the police should that have become necessary--it didn't).

The point is that it is theoretically possible to have a protest or demonstration or rally where appropriate precautions are taken. I believe there have been a number of marches by medical workers as well, where they are all wearing PPE. Obviously these rules were unfortunately not followed by protestors in many cases, and I suspect that greatly reduced the number the number of people participating. Still, the fact that they were outdoors and many people did wear face coverings obviously helps. At least here, all protestors were strongly encouraged to be tested.

If Trump's rally were outdoors, with enforced distancing and face coverings, then that would greatly limit the potential for spreading and I think it would face a lot less criticism and possibly would have had better attendance.

craigs Jun 21, 2020 11:56 PM

Well put.
Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8958433)
I participated in /helped organize a march a few weeks ago (UChicago astrophysics/cosmology). One of the reason we felt we needed to have our own march is that many of us did not feel comfortable participating in more general marches where we could not enforce face coverings and social distancing. Still, many of the police officers that showed up were not wearing masks, but they didn't get too close, fortunately. Also, obviously, we were outdoors and discouraged anybody symptomatic from joining. Some people also wore eye coverings (I did, partially because it was my responsibility to communicate with the police should that have become necessary--it didn't).

The point is that it is theoretically possible to have a protest or demonstration or rally where appropriate precautions are taken. I believe there have been a number of marches by medical workers as well, where they are all wearing PPE. Obviously these rules were unfortunately not followed by protestors in many cases, and I suspect that greatly reduced the number the number of people participating. Still, the fact that they were outdoors and many people did wear face coverings obviously helps. At least here, all protestors were strongly encouraged to be tested.

If Trump's rally were outdoors, with enforced distancing and face coverings, then that would greatly limit the potential for spreading and I think it would face a lot less criticism and possibly would have had better attendance.


Qubert Jun 22, 2020 1:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8958433)
I participated in /helped organize a march a few weeks ago (UChicago astrophysics/cosmology). One of the reason we felt we needed to have our own march is that many of us did not feel comfortable participating in more general marches where we could not enforce face coverings and social distancing. Still, many of the police officers that showed up were not wearing masks, but they didn't get too close, fortunately. Also, obviously, we were outdoors and discouraged anybody symptomatic from joining. Some people also wore eye coverings (I did, partially because it was my responsibility to communicate with the police should that have become necessary--it didn't).

I'm glad and deeply appreciative of the extensive efforts your colleagues to both keep yourselves and others safe. At the end of the day, maturity and caring about others is the true dividing line.



Quote:

The point is that it is theoretically possible to have a protest or demonstration or rally where appropriate precautions are taken. I believe there have been a number of marches by medical workers as well, where they are all wearing PPE. Obviously these rules were unfortunately not followed by protestors in many cases, and I suspect that greatly reduced the number the number of people participating. Still, the fact that they were outdoors and many people did wear face coverings obviously helps. At least here, all protestors were strongly encouraged to be tested.
Agreed. Personal behavior, regardless of the underlying reasons for gathering, is what determines the safety of everyone's behavior.

Quote:

If Trump's rally were outdoors, with enforced distancing and face coverings, then that would greatly limit the potential for spreading and I think it would face a lot less criticism and possibly would have had better attendance.
Let me first state unequivocally that George Floyd's murder and the overarching issue that surrounds it is a moral imperative, and I understand the deep emotions and urgency that goes into making the decision to rally in the face of extenuating circumstances. I'm not here to poo-poo the reality that we all are human and the issues facing our society do not rest for a pandemic.

Having said that, my issue personally lies not with those who choose to attend George Floyd protests rather than the media/public health/political "betters" who willingly choose to blatantly broadcast double standards in regards to which actions are "right" and which are "wrong" in terms of public health and not even attempting to hide their personal viewpoints. This also goes for Trumpworld as well, but I think this site pretty well understands that already.....

Trump and what he represents may be terrible, but let's be clear: Our nation is in an institutional crisis. The corrosion of public trust and thus public cooperation is a direct result of our cultural, civic, political and social bodies no longer pretending to be universal or transcendent, but rather only responsive to our "side". If people cannot trust that something as objective and vital as public health information can be assessed and delivered without regards to one's own personal viewpoint then we are going to begin witnessing things far worse than MAGA rallies.

Mods: sorry for the soapbox. If you will, this will affect cities too.

the urban politician Jun 22, 2020 3:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8958368)
Unlike the protests, we do know for a fact that the novel coronavirus has been spread in churches--so let's see links to your posts denouncing indoor religious gatherings because they spread the disease. Or are you yourself just a politically-motivated right-wing hypocrite, and a terrible doctor?

I don’t give a flying fuck about churches. People who go to church don’t have anything to do with me. They are doing what they are doing at their own risk.

The rioters and protestors completely ignored stay at home and social distancing orders. They took a chance with other people’s’ lives, and perhaps the outcome was ok but there was never any guarantee that it would have been.

Meanwhile, lots of other people obeyed stay at home orders and lost their livelihoods. Not cool.

the urban politician Jun 22, 2020 3:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qubert
Having said that, my issue personally lies not with those who choose to attend George Floyd protests rather than the media/public health/political "betters" who willingly choose to blatantly broadcast double standards in regards to which actions are "right" and which are "wrong" in terms of public health and not even attempting to hide their personal viewpoints. This also goes for Trumpworld as well, but I think this site pretty well understands that already.....

Trump and what he represents may be terrible, but let's be clear: Our nation is in an institutional crisis. The corrosion of public trust and thus public cooperation is a direct result of our cultural, civic, political and social bodies no longer pretending to be universal or transcendent, but rather only responsive to our "side". If people cannot trust that something as objective and vital as public health information can be assessed and delivered without regards to one's own personal viewpoint then we are going to begin witnessing things far worse than MAGA rallies.

Thank you for saying this

The era of the “news network” simply has to end. It’s a complete failure.

Fox News, CNN, MSNBC......they are all pathetic. They just act like cheering squads for one side now. They aren’t news, and we as a society need to end their relevance.

craigs Jun 22, 2020 6:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8958583)
I don’t give a flying fuck about churches. People who go to church don’t have anything to do with me. They are doing what they are doing at their own risk.

Bad doctor. Indoor church gatherings are a proven vector; there is no indication the protests have been a vector. Bias, bias, bias.

Quote:

The rioters and protestors completely ignored stay at home and social distancing orders. They took a chance with other people’s’ lives, and perhaps the outcome was ok but there was never any guarantee that it would have been.
Bad doctor! You're just a biased Republican partisan. Protesters and churchgoers both ignored stay at home orders but one group was outside with masks where transmission was more rare, and the other was indoors without masks and are a proven super-spreader. You denounce one group and ignore the other only because you are a right-wing partisan and a very bad doctor.

mrnyc Jun 22, 2020 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957998)
Because others are not at risk from my going out unless they make it so.

yes probably they aren’t as long as you make it so — and vigilantly wear your mask around them.

10023 Jun 22, 2020 6:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 8958676)
yes probably they aren’t as long as you make it so — and vigilantly wear your mask around them.

I’m not around people who are at risk from this, and those people shouldn’t be out and about more than is absolutely necessary.

Let me be abundantly clear - this virus is not dangerous enough, to the vast majority of people, for us to give up a year of our lives. Those who are at higher risk for whatever reason should be taking extra precautions. Maybe they are giving up a year of their lives, but better some than all.

Btw there are basically no masks being worn here, or in most of Europe, aside from airplanes and public transportation (which I haven’t taken since March).

the urban politician Jun 22, 2020 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8958673)
Bad doctor. Indoor church gatherings are a proven vector; there is no indication the protests have been a vector. Bias, bias, bias.


Bad doctor! You're just a biased Republican partisan. Protesters and churchgoers both ignored stay at home orders but one group was outside with masks where transmission was more rare, and the other was indoors without masks and are a proven super-spreader. You denounce one group and ignore the other only because you are a right-wing partisan and a very bad doctor.

I’m sure you will deny it, but you are clearly just as politically biased as anyone you are accusing of the same. That’s my diagnosis as a “bad doctor”

And I don’t know why you think I defend churchgoers—I agree it’s a bad idea to congregate in churches right now. Show me where I said that I approve of it. I’m not even Christian, nor do I care much for religion.

mrnyc Jun 22, 2020 1:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8958677)
I’m not around people who are at risk from this, and those people shouldn’t be out and about more than is absolutely necessary.

Let me be abundantly clear - this virus is not dangerous enough, to the vast majority of people, for us to give up a year of our lives. Those who are at higher risk for whatever reason should be taking extra precautions. Maybe they are giving up a year of their lives, but better some than all.

Btw there are basically no masks being worn here, or in most of Europe, aside from airplanes and public transportation (which I haven’t taken since March).


then let me be abundantly clear, you will wear your mask on public transit, airplanes, restaurants, shops and around people who are at risk.

mrnyc Jun 22, 2020 1:19 PM

for a hobby, a photographer shoots pandemic nightshots of tokyo, at night, on film, and posts them on insta:



Hauntingly Beautiful Photos for an Anxious Moment

On Instagram, Kana Hashimoto’s images of nocturnal Tokyo unwittingly capture the odd feeling of time itself as the coronavirus pandemic drags on.

Edward M. GómezJune 20, 2020

https://hyperallergic.com/571311/kan...rgicNewsletter

iheartthed Jun 22, 2020 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8958677)
Let me be abundantly clear - this virus is not dangerous enough, to the vast majority of people, for us to give up a year of our lives. Those who are at higher risk for whatever reason should be taking extra precautions. Maybe they are giving up a year of their lives, but better some than all.

You don't know this. You're speaking definitively about a virus that no one even knew existed just 6 months ago. Nobody has any idea what the long term consequences are of this virus.

iheartthed Jun 22, 2020 2:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qubert (Post 8958389)
I'm as far from a Trump supporter as you can get, but you're basically saying that the moral underpinnings of what people are gathering for (Trump Rally vs George Floyd Protest) determine wither or not it is an appropriate behavior during a pandemic. That's not just simply partisan, it's an outright rejection of science and public health for political/social purposes.

If a Floyd protest is okay, then Trump rallies are okay. There is simply no factual, tangible or scientific argument otherwise. I'm not here to get into the right/wrongs of an individuals choice to gather for whatever reason, but here simply to state that the credibility of public officials and medical experts is on the line. If (when) the next pandemic hits, you're sowing the seeds of mass disobedience that will inevitably lead to tragedy.

If one subset of society suffers (Blacks, Hispanics, Essential workers, Trump-world, whoever...) we all will feel the effects. Viruses don't care about politics, police brutality, race or moral superiority. At some point the medical/political elites need to realize their ability to dispense socially and ideologically unbiased advise is critical to saving lives. Failure to do so not only leaves blood on their hands, but will fan the flames of the very social movements you abhor.

Viruses don't care about politics, I agree 100% with that. The difference is that one side is being encouraged to do irresponsible, counterproductive things by the very face of the government itself. Also, the entire point of that particular group's resistance has been to undermine the very things we need to do to prevent out society from collapsing.


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