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ardecila Aug 28, 2019 5:52 PM

nvm

N830MH Aug 29, 2019 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg (Post 8656056)
Wisconsin is trying to connect to the stronger Chicago market. Illinois probably doesn't want that to happen, to keep business in state.

Probably not. I don't think they go for it. I think commuter rail is staying in Illinois.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8656119)
Absolutely.

Think about how it would affect Illinois if well paid professionals were a reasonable commuter rail ride from the Loop but lived in Milwaukee instead of Chicago. Will be even more appealing if JB gets his new income tax increase.

I don't think its happening anytime soon. They can not go to Wisconsin. Too far! Too expensive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg (Post 8656199)
Wisconsin income tax would still be higher for people earning > $50,000, so well paid professionals wouldn't go anywhere. It's the businesses that would move up.

Yes, it is! It's too extremely expensive! I don't think they go for it. Commuter rail is here to stay in Illinois, not go to Wisconsin. Too far!

aaron38 Sep 5, 2019 4:51 PM

Lincoln Park residents divided on Dickens Avenue greenway
The route would provide a safe bike path between Clybourn Avenue and the Lincoln Park Zoo


https://chicago.curbed.com/2019/9/3/...venue-greenway

aaron38 Sep 5, 2019 5:11 PM

The CTA's Secret 9th Line: The Brownge Line
How the CTA and Metra each operate a color-changing rail line every day, unbeknownst to almost anyone who doesn't utilize them regularly
https://www.metroblog.us/2019/08/the...wnge-line.html

Saw this on Reddit the other day, had never heard of this before. Anyone here use this?

Steely Dan Sep 5, 2019 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 8678689)
The CTA's Secret 9th Line: The Brownge Line
How the CTA and Metra each operate a color-changing rail line every day, unbeknownst to almost anyone who doesn't utilize them regularly
https://www.metroblog.us/2019/08/the...wnge-line.html

Saw this on Reddit the other day, had never heard of this before. Anyone here use this?

i rode the brownge line last summer to get from my home in lincoln square (rockwell stop) down to MDW for a morning flight.

a fairly long trip, but at least it was a one-seat ride, which i can't do for ORD (i have to take the montrose bus out to the blue line).

sammyg Sep 5, 2019 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 8678689)
The CTA's Secret 9th Line: The Brownge Line
How the CTA and Metra each operate a color-changing rail line every day, unbeknownst to almost anyone who doesn't utilize them regularly
https://www.metroblog.us/2019/08/the...wnge-line.html

Saw this on Reddit the other day, had never heard of this before. Anyone here use this?

I occasionally end up on one when I ride the Brown Line to the Loop. It's no different, except it goes to Clark and Lake instead of Washington and Wells.

Mr Downtown Sep 19, 2019 3:47 AM

Hmmm. Mayor Lightfoot is not in favor of Cook County's plan to lower fares and increase service on both the Metra Electric and Rock Island lines, saying it could harm CTA.

I'm puzzled by her opposition, as I thought the county had figured out the subsidy transfers necessary for this to work.

k1052 Sep 19, 2019 1:05 PM

This is a disappointing development. Though not entirely unexpected.

I'd expect the CTA recommended that she not support the initiative because everybody's gotta protect their turf even at the cost of better service for the public.

ardecila Sep 19, 2019 7:44 PM

Ugh. Why did I ever get optimistic about this?

Combine the insane turf battles of American transit with a very personal feud between Lightfoot and Preckwinkle and you get this result.

TR Devlin Sep 20, 2019 7:52 PM

Meagan McNeal on the Green Line:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2hjiohH...eo_watch_again

the urban politician Sep 20, 2019 8:27 PM

Greg Hinz with and editorial on this very topic:

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/greg...rd-unity-train

OhioGuy Sep 23, 2019 10:18 AM

A new State/Lake station was announced 2 years ago next month. I haven’t heard much lately on any progress. Anyone know what’s the latest news?

ardecila Sep 23, 2019 6:21 PM

The last update in the city's procurement database for the design contract (Spec #579313) shows that the project is in "contract negotiations" as of 11/30/18, with no further updates. It's possible they picked a design team, but they made an executive decision to put the project on pause and avoid formally awarding the contract until the new mayor's administration had a chance to weigh in. FYI, Lightfoot has still not chosen a commissioner for CDOT.

One interesting tidbit I found in the solicitation is that part of the scope requested the design team to consider creating a single "Lake" station with platforms roughly centered on Dearborn. This new station would take over the existing connections to the Blue Line from the old Clark/Lake and include new transfers to the Red Line at the former location of State/Lake. The transfer walks wouldn't be short, but they would be entirely in-system. Reducing the number of station stops would continue the process of streamlining operations on the Loop in order to push more trains through. This isn't the firm direction though, it's still possible that they could continue the existing two-station arrangement.

the urban politician Sep 23, 2019 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8695752)
One interesting tidbit I found in the solicitation is that part of the scope requested the design team to consider creating a single "Lake" station with platforms roughly centered on Dearborn. This new station would take over the existing connections to the Blue Line from the old Clark/Lake and include new transfers to the Red Line at the former location of State/Lake. The transfer walks wouldn't be short, but they would be entirely in-system. Reducing the number of station stops would continue the process of streamlining operations on the Loop in order to push more trains through. This isn't the firm direction though, it's still possible that they could continue the existing two-station arrangement.

^ If the station is centered on Dearborn, that would clear up sight lines on State St, which I recall us discussing before. Wow that would be nice

ardecila Sep 23, 2019 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8695780)
^ If the station is centered on Dearborn, that would clear up sight lines on State St, which I recall us discussing before. Wow that would be nice

Not necessarily, it would depend on what kind of structure they build for the transfer connection to the Red Line. There might still be some stair/elevator towers in or around State Street.

One nice advantage of the one-station scheme is that both Clark/Lake and State/Lake could continue operating seamlessly during the construction.

OhioGuy Oct 4, 2019 3:00 PM

In this article about a proposed hotel in the Fulton Market area, there was this little nugget:

Quote:

After the meeting, Ald. Walter Burnett Jr. (27th) said the developer agreed to pay for a left-turning traffic light at Lake and Halsted.

He said he will also encourage CDOT and Mayor Lori Lightfoot to consider reopening the Halsted “L” stop.
Morgan is only 4 blocks west of Halsted. If there’s concern walking 4 blocks is too much, the Morgan platform extends east far enough to have a new entry with controlled faregates between Sangamon and Peoria. That could cut the walk down to about 2.5 blocks from Halsted and would presumably be much less costly than another infill station. Unless the freeway is capped and developers are offered the opportunity to build above if they contribute to a station at Halsted... that might make a Halsted station more reasonable to handle the demand in between Clinton and Morgan.

OhioGuy Oct 8, 2019 1:17 AM

NORTHERN INDIANA COMMUTER TRANSPORTATION DISTRICT ANNOUNCES FEDERAL TRANSIT ADMINISTRATION APPROVAL TO ENTER ENGINEERING FOR THE WEST LAKE CORRIDOR PROJECT
07 OCT 2019
Quote:

The Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (NICTD), operator of the South Shore Line railroad, announced today that it is able to begin the design and engineering phase of the West Lake Corridor Project after receiving approval to enter the New Starts Engineering phase of the Federal Transit Administration's (FTA) Capital Investment Grant program.

"Extending rail service will save Hoosiers both time and money - but it's also a critical part of our efforts to strengthen our economy and attract new residents," Gov. Eric J. Holcomb said. "I'm grateful that local, state and federal leaders have come together to connect northwest Indiana to the nation's third-largest city and beyond so that our workforce and our businesses will be able to mutually grow."
Project maps available here.

k1052 Oct 14, 2019 7:50 PM

CTA State/Lake replacement station got a big CMAQ grant. Hopefully edging closer to some actual construction.

http://https://chi.streetsblog.org/2...hair-friendly/

Quote:

The Chicago Metropolitan Agency for Planning announced earlier this week that it is awarding $56.9 million of the region’s $225.7 million allotment of federal Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality funds to the project.
Quote:

The $56.9 million CMAQ grant won’t cover the full cost of construction. The press release says “The full cost of the new station will not be determined until the design process progresses, but it is expected that it will exceed the construction cost of the new station at Washington/Wabash of $75 million.” The city previously won a $5.5 million federal grant to bankroll the design of State/Lake.

Not mentioned in this article but Metra also got CMAQ money to repower the F59PHIs it bought from Amtrak with Tier 3 engines. Can't happen soon enough IMO. I imagine they'll also use incoming capital money to exercise all the SD70MACH options which will push out another 40 Tier 0 locomotives from Metra's roster.

ardecila Oct 14, 2019 10:00 PM

News sources like to make hay out of these announcements, but due to the piecemeal way our infrastructure is funded it doesn't necessarily mean the project is fully green-lit.

Also exciting to me is money being allocated to the Bus Priority Zones - real bus lanes on Chicago Ave thru River North with battery-electric technology implemented on the entire route. Also signal priority and queue jump lanes on sections of 79th, Western, Pulaski, Halsted, and Belmont. Rahm allocated $5m to this near the end of his term, but now that's being followed up with another $17m.

Also there is $13m being allocated to a reconstruction of the Pedway, which is welcome news... although it always seemed more like a maintenance and security challenge than an infrastructural one.

orulz Oct 15, 2019 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8716867)
CTA State/Lake replacement station got a big CMAQ grant. Hopefully edging closer to some actual construction.

http://https://chi.streetsblog.org/2...hair-friendly/


The CMAQ grant was 2 years ago.... in 2017

k1052 Oct 15, 2019 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 8717512)
The CMAQ grant was 2 years ago.... in 2017

I quoted the wrong story. The project got a $59M grant in addition to the $57M in 2017.

tjp Oct 15, 2019 10:52 PM

^ Tribune had a story about it a few days ago. It mentions that the stop may "possibly" have an elevator connection to the red line stop there. I was really hoping for a true connection between the two stations - it would make commuting from north side to the west loop a whole lot less annoying.

ardecila Oct 16, 2019 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjp (Post 8718055)
^ Tribune had a story about it a few days ago. It mentions that the stop may "possibly" have an elevator connection to the red line stop there. I was really hoping for a true connection between the two stations - it would make commuting from north side to the west loop a whole lot less annoying.

The Trib article is based on a press release from CMAP on which projects were awarded and how much, plus background from older stories.

I wouldn't assume that the specific project descriptions are accurate and up-to-date. I'm sure CTA/CDOT planners understand the importance of State/Lake to the whole rail system and they would like to put in a great transfer connection, the question is whether a good transfer solution is possible with the amount of money that's been budgeted, and with the physical layout of the area.

I've tried to brainstorm a good way to build that connection and there are no easy answers... a lot of underground construction could push the project budget into the mid-to-high 9 figures, which is way more money than what is available. I think the best solution is to use the median of State Street for a direct elevator/escalator connection, but that requires narrowing the sidewalks.

emathias Oct 21, 2019 3:01 PM

Is there anything that prevents the City from creating a long-term plan for transit, creating an outline of what is planned, and then methodically getting finding for the necessary studies of each and creating budget lines for each that they, over time, apply funding to and implement as finding becomes available? It seems like if they been doing that over the past several decades that they could have had several projects "shovel ready" it at least ready for bids firing the big Federal stimulus a decade ago and gotten some things done then. Certainly that was probably a once in a lifetime thing, but there are also likely to be other times with looser stimulus strings that a prepared City could take advantage of.

I all because it seems like many long-term plans aren't likely to change but don't happen because they rely on sustained political will that rarely comes about. But if it were just part of the standard way the city does business more could get done. I'm thinking of things like the West Loop Transportation Center, or the Clinton Subway, or the 1968 plan for a Monroe to Streeterville and McCormick circulator. All of those things would really benefit the City, but aren't going to happen as just piecemeal projects. But a City that was organized and dedicated to seeing them through over the long term might have a chance of seeing them implemented. If love to see all of those happen in my lifetime because I think they'd push Chicago into a solid, singularly second place for transit access after New York instead of just being in the cluster of "pretty good" American cities behind New York.

Obviously the downtown ones make the most sense from a "bang for the buck" standpoint, but it could also include projects in the outer neighborhoods to build stronger universal support. Things like the Red Line extension, or a South Lakefront solution, or connecting the Brown Line to the Blue or a Cicero line.

Big improvement projects could also for in the planning, like the RPM stuff, and Blue Line subway station rebuilds.

Is it politics alone that prevent that or something else?

ardecila Oct 21, 2019 4:28 PM

Mr. D can probably offer a better "big-picture" answer. My thought is that we haven't really had a master plan since the 1968 plan fell apart, probably because we already have such an extensive network.

We don't have the urgency of, say, Los Angeles or Denver to create a brand-new transit network from scratch, and we're pretty jaded about the ability for transit to relieve congestion or solve broader urban problems.

Combine that with the general shitty fiscal situation in the state and it isn't a great situation for any kind of transit expansion.

To the extent that we have any urgency about transit at all, it's been more about securing funds to shore up and rebuild what we already have before a catastrophe happens - which is a false premise, since a robust program of ongoing maintenance would prevent the need for multi-billion dollar reconstruction projects.

Mr Downtown Oct 22, 2019 2:44 PM

Yeah, I'm smirking at the idea that Northern Illinois could ever have a "long-term plan" for transportation.

For nearly 30 years, the feds have required that we have an MPO to rationalize regional transportation planning. A decade ago, Metropolis 2020 got NIPC and CATS combined into CMAP in hopes it would relate land-use and transportation planning. But mostly for political reasons, CMAP continues to be a "stapler" agency that largely takes in the wish lists from all the different players (IDOT, counties, municipalities, operating agencies) and just staples them together to have "a plan" to give the feds. Go To 2040 was an effort to put some priorities to the various projects folks wished for—and then the biggest project funded and built during the decade, the Circle Interchange, was something not even listed in the document.

Neither CTA nor RTA have much of a long-range planning group, as that's been sacrificed in decade after decade of budget cutting. And both CTA and Metra are primarily devoted to getting the system we have back into a state of good repair. Especially under Daley and Emanuel, projects like Red Line Extension or O'Hare Express have seemed to be more about getting planning grants and disbursing same to consultants than about getting any shovels into the ground.

aaron38 Nov 13, 2019 3:32 AM

Thinking small - Infill, Green Line expansion. Halsted, Racine/Elizabeth, Western. Those three stations added to what's already there would create a very dense walkable corridor through the west loop. Stations can be done one at a time, East to West. Stations should also be minimalist and standard design.

What do you think the odds are that these stations come to pass?

MayorOfChicago Nov 13, 2019 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 8746885)
Thinking small - Infill, Green Line expansion. Halsted, Racine/Elizabeth, Western. Those three stations added to what's already there would create a very dense walkable corridor through the west loop. Stations can be done one at a time, East to West. Stations should also be minimalist and standard design.

What do you think the odds are that these stations come to pass?

Then though you'd have Clinton, Halsted, Morgan and Racine. Those last three would all be within a half mile of track.

What would have been better would probably have been stops at Clinton, Halsted and Racine. The Morgan one kinda pushes out direct needs of Halsted or Racine.

ardecila Nov 13, 2019 6:46 PM

Not sure why Halsted is needed other than the bus transfer. If you rebuilt the station, much of the immediate radius would be taken up by the expressway. Instead, just upgrade the Sangamon entrance of Morgan to a faregate entrance and prioritize redevelopment of the Bridgford property so Lake St doesn't feel so forlorn.

Further west, there is still a 1.5 mile gap between Morgan and Ashland. A new station at Elizabeth would be awesome.

Of course, for the price of two new el stops, you could probably install a streetcar on Canal and Randolph that goes from the Union Station Bus Terminal to Ogilvie to Union Park, providing stronger local access to Fulton Market and potentially eliminating the private shuttle fleets. Milwaukee's streetcar is a similar length and cost about $120M.

Steely Dan Nov 13, 2019 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8747463)
Further west, there is still a 1.5 mile gap between Morgan and Ashland.

morgan to ashland is only a 3/4 mile gap, not 1.5 miles.

the 1.5 mile gap o the green line is between ashland and california, but the new damen stop will chop that down a good bit.

emathias Nov 13, 2019 8:29 PM

I never understood why they put a stop at Morgan. In the long term, placing stations every half-mile is a good pattern for the type of system we have. A Green/Halsted station and an Racine/Elizabeth station would have made a more useful pair than a single station at Morgan.

They could still add one at Elizabeth/Ada, which would have the added benefit of a unique name instead of continuing on with the confusion of multiple same-named stations on different branches (not even only different lines - I'm looking at you, Western and Ashland and Harlem).

Morgan to Ashland is 3/4 of a mile, so splitting that is 3/8th of a mile, which isn't excessively close, especially when it would draw from both north and south of the station. Diversey/Wellington/Belmont are each only 1/4 mile apart, and the West Loop has the potential to be a good deal more dense than even that relatively dense part of Lakeview even if it isn't that dense yet, and it will definitely have more commercial space eventually, as it's turning into borderline downtown as Fulton gets built out. Maybe that's still a long-term possibility.

IrishIllini Nov 13, 2019 8:57 PM

A stop at Elizabeth isn’t a bad idea. The short spacing is fine that close to downtown. Get a Pink Line stop at Madison and the West Loop is set for the foreseeable future.

Above all I want the Clinton-Larrabee subway. In a perfect world it’d go north towards Goose Island...A subway beneath Broadway branching from the north side redline would be great too. Have it tie back in at Clark/Division.

aaron38 Nov 14, 2019 10:02 PM

I change my mind, build the infill stations West to East. Green line needs a station at Western, that's agreed right?
There's a lot of excitement around a station at Racine/Elizabeth, I agree that would be awesome.

So leave Halsted for last. If density by that point is crying for a station, build it. If not, shelve it.
Thoughts?

OhioGuy Nov 15, 2019 3:25 AM

This should be interesting!

Geoffrey Baer PBS Special

Quote:

Yesterday, we caught up with popular WTTW host, Geoffrey Baer's Chicago (WTTW), as he completed filming for Channel 11’s new documentary, “Chicago by ‘L’.” This fun informative program debuts in March 2020! Baer was able to interact with some talented musicians at the Jackson Blue Line Station.

Baronvonellis Nov 15, 2019 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron38 (Post 8748889)
I change my mind, build the infill stations West to East. Green line needs a station at Western, that's agreed right?
There's a lot of excitement around a station at Racine/Elizabeth, I agree that would be awesome.

So leave Halsted for last. If density by that point is crying for a station, build it. If not, shelve it.
Thoughts?

Yea, I would do a station at Elizabeth and one at Western, one at Damen is going to be built. I don't think Halsted is needed.

Handro Nov 19, 2019 5:13 PM

Are there any major city/region altering projects incubating at the moment? Whatever happened to Ashland BRT, is that completely dead? Has Goose Island redevelopment spurred any talk about using some of the abandoned track near there?

It seems like ambitious plans float around think tanks but never make it to actual policy makers to discuss, is Chicago ever going to make the region more accessible?

I just read about Pace trying a program that uses ride-share companies as a connection for Pace buses. That just seems so... dumb. Can we be bolder?

ardecila Nov 19, 2019 5:36 PM

^ No. I've slowly come to the realization that Chicago is presently incapable of thinking big or master-planning. When developers try to do it (Lincoln Yards, The 78) they get slapped down.

Our leaders are too busy lurching from crisis to crisis to actually chart a positive vision for how the city can grow. To be fair, a shrinking or static population doesn't create much urgency for large-scale planning, and certainly doesn't give government the financial resources to think big. Why should government spend scarce money creating plans and building infrastructure, when the exodus of minorities from Chicago is already freeing up all the capacity we need to handle the slow growth of white and college-educated groups?

The only new transit we're likely to see is small tweaks - a new L station here, a renovation there, maybe some intermittent bus lanes at bad intersections.

Busy Bee Nov 19, 2019 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8752818)
…. Our leaders are too busy lurching from crisis to crisis to actually chart a positive vision for how the city can grow.

While 100% true this statement works off the presumption our leaders have any vision at all vis a vis paradigm changing transport projects. It's not just a Chicago metropolitan deficit, zoom out to a state level. Even with a progressive governor, where is the emphasis and coalition building both in-state and with neighboring midwestern states necessary to prioritize vision planning, let alone actual funding and building of a midwestern true high speed rail network?

IrishIllini Nov 19, 2019 5:50 PM

^ I think the system we have is mostly sufficient for our needs. We really only need infill stations, renovations, and dedicated bus lanes at this point.

The north branch is an opportunity for new transit infrastructure, but it may be politically challenging to push for shiny new infrastructure through one of the wealthiest parts of the city at this time. Sterling Bay’s vision of Goose Island and LY as the West Loop 2.0 isn’t viable without rail transit. Easier and cheaper to get that infrastructure going before the NIMBYs move in.

Busy Bee Nov 19, 2019 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8752830)
^ I think the system we have is mostly sufficient for our needs. We really only need infill stations, renovations, and dedicated bus lanes at this point.

I beg to differ. Emphatically.

Just one example of an overwhelmingly worthwhile project that has shockingly never come to fruition is a subway extension of the Ravenswood Brown Line to Jefferson Park Blue Line Station. It's my opinion only in the US, not just Chicago, is it possible for this to have never been completed - or even prioritized.

IrishIllini Nov 19, 2019 7:25 PM

I said it was mostly sufficient ;). That’d be a great project. Not sure how it’d work or if the costs are worth the benefits. Would the brown line tie into the blue line or run beneath it?

It’s tight at Kimball. A lot of property would need to be seized via eminent domain. I don’t see the neighbors going for any elevated or at-grade extensions. It’d have to run in a subway.

wwmiv Nov 19, 2019 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8752830)
^ I think the system we have is mostly sufficient for our needs. We really only need infill stations, renovations, and dedicated bus lanes at this point.

The north branch is an opportunity for new transit infrastructure, but it may be politically challenging to push for shiny new infrastructure through one of the wealthiest parts of the city at this time. Sterling Bay’s vision of Goose Island and LY as the West Loop 2.0 isn’t viable without rail transit. Easier and cheaper to get that infrastructure going before the NIMBYs move in.

(1) brown line extension
(2) circle line
(3) infill stations
(4) Clyborne corridor / Lincoln Yards

Busy Bee Nov 19, 2019 7:44 PM

.

IrishIllini Nov 19, 2019 7:50 PM

I’ve fallen out of love with the circle line but seems like I’m in the minority there.

ardecila Nov 19, 2019 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8752829)
While 100% true this statement works off the presumption our leaders have any vision at all vis a vis paradigm changing transport projects. It's not just a Chicago metropolitan deficit, zoom out to a state level. Even with a progressive governor, where is the emphasis and coalition building both in-state and with neighboring midwestern states necessary to prioritize vision planning, let alone actual funding and building of a midwestern true high speed rail network?

But where's the need for ambitious planning if the region isn't really growing?

The cities and regions in North America that are building large-scale projects are generally the ones facing significant growth pressures. If you want to think about it politically, the very real growing pains in these regions provide politicians with cover to spend billions on transportation projects. Our city government is broke as a joke, but even if they magically found billions, I imagine most taxpayers would prefer that money go into schools, crime prevention, and public services.

Illinois state government has all the same issues as Chicago government - poor fiscal condition and low growth pressure. I wouldn't expect Springfield to act any differently.

Busy Bee Nov 19, 2019 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8752949)
I said it was mostly sufficient ;). That’d be a great project. Not sure how it’d work or if the costs are worth the benefits. Would the brown line tie into the blue line or run beneath it?

It’s tight at Kimball. A lot of property would need to be seized via eminent domain. I don’t see the neighbors going for any elevated or at-grade extensions. It’d have to run in a subway.


So glad you asked :D I've been thinking about this for years.

I think what you'd have to do to make an O'Hare (or at least transferable connection @JP Blue Line) extension work is the following:

1) An obvious assumption would be the entire Kimball Yard and station complex would have to be closed and rebuilt below grade. The lead tracks from the at-grade corridor would have to start their northward turn further east by at least 100 feet so they could make the western turn to under Lawrence with the same corner radius so no property acquisition/condemnation for easement would be necessary. On top of a new Kimball Station and Yard complex (likely 20-25 feet below grade) would go a large income generating for the Cta mixed-use development (think 10+ floors). If accommodating the Kimball Yard on the same footprint proved to be too logistically difficult or even impossible an obvious solution lies under the large empty lot on the north side of the Teddy Roosevelt High School property.

2) In order to do this you would really have to eliminate the at-grade Brown Line running section (the "garage door corridor") well before the Kimball station. This could either start immediately to the west of the North Branch bridge or immediately after the Francisco station between the Francisco station and the Kedzie station. Either way the Kedzie station would also be below grade, but a "lid" to the trench would not be necessary until immediately before the Kimball station. I realize this idea may make many a Chicago railfan nauseous at the thought of eliminating these at-grade outer reaches of the Brown Line and all their railfanning charm, but ultimately I think it would be for the best in the interest of modernization and line extension.

3) The new subway extension westward could be accomplished by cut and cover in a quick and modular manner using the latest technology. I don't believe using a TBM would make sense in any way as the geologic depth would not justify its use. A shallow cut-and-cover would be a perfect solution paired with the latest noise and vibration cancelling track to ballast isolation materials and technology as well as the latest in sound/vibration isolating the roof of the concrete box. From there it's the mile or so straight west until...

4) ...And here is where it gets tricky. The subway has to get under the Edens so it would have to drop to about 40-50 feet below Lawrence before it and continue at that depth until the Kennedy (which would require bored tunnel). At this point I should clarify. If you are making this kind of investment it really makes sense to through-run Brown Line trains straight to O'Hare not requiring a multi-minute and walking distance transfer connection @ JP Blue Line, a connection which I've never really fleshed out how would work considering JP station is several hundred feet further north from Lawrence and sense you're tunneling anyway why not just through-run trains directly right? That said, the median Blue Line r.o.w. has the width to accommodate between the two directional tracks two portals north and south offset from one another that get Brown Line trains onto the Blue Line just south of the JP station... and there you have it, direct access to O'Hare from the mid northside and vice versa without having to go downtown first or bussing it to a Kennedy Blue Line station and transferring.

Potential stations along the extension depending on ease of construction could be located at Pulaski Road, Elston Ave or under the MD-North Line creating the potential for a combined Cta/Metra station creating more commuting options.

Busy Bee Nov 19, 2019 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwmiv (Post 8752968)
(1) brown line extension
(2) circle line
(3) infill stations
(4) Clyborne corridor / Lincoln Yards

Yep

IrishIllini Nov 19, 2019 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 8753016)
So glad you asked :D I've been thinking about this for years.

I think what you'd have to do to make an O'Hare (or at least transferable connection @JP Blue Line) extension work is the following:

1) An obvious assumption would be the entire Kimball Yard and station complex would have to be closed and rebuilt below grade. The lead tracks from the at-grade corridor would have to start their northward turn further east by at least 100 feet so they could make the western turn to under Lawrence with the same corner radius so no property acquisition/condemnation for easement would be necessary. On top of a new Kimball Station and Yard complex (likely 20-25 feet below grade) would go a large income generating for the Cta mixed-use development (think 10+ floors). If accommodating the Kimball Yard on the same footprint proved to be too logistically difficult or even impossible an obvious solution lies under the large empty lot on the north side of the Teddy Roosevelt High School property.

2) In order to do this you would really have to eliminate the at-grade Brown Line running section well before the Kimball station. This could either start immediately to the west of the North Branch bridge or immediately after the Francisco station between the Francisco station and the Kedzie station. Either way the Kedzie station would also be below grade, but a "lid" to the trench would not be necessary until immediately before the Kimball station. I realize this idea may make many a Chicago railfan nauseous at the thought of eliminating these at-grade outer reaches of the Brown Line and all their railfanning charm, but ultimately I think it would be for the best in the interest of modernization and line extension.

3) The new subway extension westward could be accomplished by cut and cover in a quick and modular manner using the latest technology. I don't believe using a TBM would make sense in any way as the geologic depth would not justify its use. A shallow cut-and-cover would be a perfect solution paired with the latest noise and vibration cancelling track to ballast isolation materials and technology as well as the latest in sound/vibration isolating the roof of the concrete box. From there it's the mile or so straight west until...

4) ...And here is where it gets tricky. The subway has to get under the Edens so it would have to drop to about 40-50 feet below Lawrence before it and continue at that depth until the Kennedy (which would require bored tunnel). At this point I should clarify. If you are making this kind of investment it really makes sense to through-run Brown Line trains straight to O'Hare not requiring a multi-minute and walking distance transfer connection @ JP Blue Line, a connection which I've never really fleshed out how would work considering JP station is several hundred feet further north from Lawrence and sense you're tunneling anyway why not just through-run trains directly right? That said, the median Blue Line r.o.w. has the width to accommodate between the two directional tracks two portals north and south offset from one another that get Brown Line trains onto the Blue Line just south of the JP station... and there you have it, direct access to O'Hare from the mid northside and vice versa without having to go downtown first or bussing it to a Kennedy Blue Line station and transferring.

I do love those at-grade crossings and I’d be bummed to see them go. I’d be curious to see a cost-benefit analysis between this and a Clinton-Larrabee subway that continues northwest under Clybourn to Belmont, northward under Western to Irving Park, and westward under Irving Park to the existing blue line before heading out to O’Hare. At the south end, maybe have it cut east down Monroe and terminate at the downtown superstation.

Other than being my baby :D, I feel this fills a lot of holes in our transit system on the north side. It’d get a subway tunnel beneath Western (future expansion potential) and frees up some capacity on the blue line by providing a bypass for the worst stretch of it. It connects the north side to the West Loop. Ogilvie and Union Stations are now connected to the North Branch. It also creates the environment necessary to put an end to the auto centric land uses along Clybourn, Elston, and Western. You have access to O’Hare through a North/Clybourn transfer or shorter bus ride west. Winning bigly!

emathias Nov 20, 2019 3:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 8752988)
But where's the need for ambitious planning if the region isn't really growing?
...

The Central Area is growing quickly, both in population and in jobs and is, in my opinion the area most in need of enhanced rail transit. Other areas in Chicago where expanded transit would be useful are also either growing or the enhancement would support the increased demand in the Central Area. The 1968 plan to link the West Loop, Streeterville, and the McCormick Place areas is exactly what we need today, and would not only improve things that currently exist, but support the projected additions of population and jobs projected for the areas.

Things like the Circle Line and a Kimball to Blue Line connection would support the edges of the area growing the fastest and link areas many people who work downtown live in getting to O'Hare for both leisure and business travel. Depending on how exactly it was implemented, it could greatly enhance popular areas for living and/or bolster areas for a non-downtown jobs area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8753200)
I do love those at-grade crossings and I’d be bummed to see them go.

I was riding a Brown Line train that struck and killed a cyclist while crossing Kenzie in 2014. While quaint, I have zero love for at-grade crossings and firmly believe there should be plans to get rid of them, regardless of cost.

My preferred solution would be to run a line from Monroe and the Art Institute north, under St. Claire, west under Delaware, North under Clark to Diversey, then under Broadway to Wilson, then under Wilson to Kimball, then jog *south* to Montrose, west to Montrose Blue, with a transfer to the Blue Line and existing MD-N and a new UP-NW station. Then either terminate as a transfer station, or turn south parallel to Cicero to Six Corners (which is only 1/2 mile away from there), or continue west deep under Montrose work limited stops, probably at maybe Milwaukee but definitely Narraganset/Wilbur Wright College, Harlem (near the HIP), then popping up above ground for two stops in Rosemont, a stop at Terminal 5 and then either joining the Blue Line to terminate with it, or burrowing under the airport to serve western terminals for the new rebuild at O'Hare. Once the portion under Wilson to Kimball was done, the Brown Line North of Wilson could be demolished with a connection North of Montrose to the new subway section, or kept with a transfer station at Wilson and terminated at Western to eliminate at-grade crossings.

Second choice would be to simply add a subway under Lawrence west of Western to e Blue Line at Jefferson Park and remove the at-grade section altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8753200)
...
I’d be curious to see a cost-benefit analysis between this and a Clinton-Larrabee subway that continues northwest under Clybourn to Belmont, northward under Western to Irving Park, and westward under Irving Park to the existing blue line before heading out to O’Hare. At the south end, maybe have it cut east down Monroe and terminate at the downtown superstation.

If we did that, I think going west under Belmont past the Blue Line and then as a deep subway with limited stops, almost an express, would be more useful. Belmont has a lot of commercial stuff along it and remains fairly dense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishIllini (Post 8753200)
...
Other than being my baby :D, I feel this fills a lot of holes in our transit system on the north side. It’d get a subway tunnel beneath Western (future expansion potential) and frees up some capacity on the blue line by providing a bypass for the worst stretch of it. It connects the north side to the West Loop. Ogilvie and Union Stations are now connected to the North Branch. It also creates the environment necessary to put an end to the auto centric land uses along Clybourn, Elston, and Western. You have access to O’Hare through a North/Clybourn transfer or shorter bus ride west. Winning bigly!

Western is so lost that, if it's cheaper, I'd even be fine with elevated tracks over Western.

I kinda think a narrower Circle Line, with the east part of it being the Clinton subway, plus a new Lakefront Line from Hyde Park to Streeterville to Broadway to Wilson to the Blue Line would be best, plus adding a subway under Monroe between the IMD/UIUC and the Are Institute to link to the aforementioned new Lakefront Line. The Clinton Subway South of Roosevelt could jog West to Halsted to Pershing to my newly proposed Lakefront Line.

I recognize my preferred additions would likely cost on the order of $12-20 billion, but they'd solve most of the needs both now and for the next 50 or more years. And there are a few details to work out, but it mostly sticks to areas that are growing or already need more rail.

SIGSEGV Nov 20, 2019 5:05 AM

I think a few bus lanes and better Metra Service in the city (fare integrated, at least every 20 mins, and with infill stations) would go a long way to improving Chicago's connectivity. Some sort of circulator from Navy Pier to the train stations to McCormick would be good but could be done with bus lanes.


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