SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

emathias May 14, 2014 3:58 PM

For those curious about the density of the area in question, here area couple maps showing the density at the Census Block Group level, which is the finest-grain data I have access to, and is smaller than Census Tracts. If there are even pockets of density, they should show up in these maps.

First, a map of the area in question. As you can see from the legend, there are no block groups on the map that are anywhere near as dense as normal advice for heavy metro-style rain would normally be advisable for. The few yellow ones are still just barely above the green areas, and the green areas are at good bus service densities - maybe even BRT levels, but certainly not rapid rail transit levels. I've drawn in the three alternatives (sorry it's just by hand).

http://mathiasen.com/RedExtension_De...kGroup_700.jpg

For comparison, here's the area in context of the rest of Chicago. You can see that the density of the city follows the lakefront, is more on the northside, and roughly follows existing rail routes. Where population densities are lower and rail is heavy, such as the Loop, there are known large employment centers where employment density often exceeds 50,000 jobs per square mile.

http://mathiasen.com/Chicago_Density...kGroup_700.jpg

k1052 May 14, 2014 5:12 PM

The extension should obviously be BRT into the (soon to be new) 95th St Red Line station.

joeg1985 May 14, 2014 5:47 PM

The Gray Line option would actually do very well according to the map above. It would serve all the densely populated hoods along the lake and provide for more growth along the south side. Maybe that option would increase population in the neighborhood to eventually justify an extension of the Red Line.

untitledreality May 15, 2014 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeg1985 (Post 6577378)
Maybe that option would increase population in the neighborhood to eventually justify an extension of the Red Line.

Or just publicly admit that the population densities of that area of the city will never be high enough to justify a $2.3 billion dollar extension, and that a better use of funds would be upgrading existing corridors (South Shore ME and Blue Island ME), and a Southside BRT network.

BVictor1 May 15, 2014 3:03 AM

Apologies if this was posted before.

Video Link

CTA Gray Line May 15, 2014 6:15 AM

CTA to pay $1 million for electrical work on unplugged station
 
http://politics.suntimes.com/article...05142014-833pm

WED, 05/14/2014 - 8:33PM

ROSALIND ROSSI

@ROSALINDROSSI | EMAIL

CTA board members Wednesday agreed to pay more than $1 million for electrical work completed six years ago on the $218 million CTA “Super Station” — now, basically, a big hole in the ground to nowhere......

CTA Gray Line May 15, 2014 6:51 AM

Bus route to Museum of Science and Industry to continue
 
A wonderful, and quite Economic duplication of Transit Services:

http://www.redeyechicago.com/news/ct...0,537433.story

By Tracy Swartz, @tracyswartz RedEye

8:34 a.m. CDT, May 14, 2014

The CTA board today approved a measure to continue running the No. 10 bus route, which travels between Michigan Avenue and the Museum of Science and Industry, for at least two more years......

emathias May 15, 2014 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 6578530)
Apologies if this was posted before.
...

In that video it mentions that about 13,500 people use the station each weekday.

It doesn't mention that 25 years ago that number was more like 30,000. Improving services to keep a place from further depopulating is not a bad idea, but spending $2.2 billion on such an area when areas that are high-growth need additional infrastructure is the height of foolishness.

rigby May 15, 2014 5:25 PM

Coming from someone that used live the Roseland area and visit for family , I don't see the need for the extension. Roseland and West Pullman are low density areas, more a residential area with houses. Also to top it off, the area's population is declining

joeg1985 May 15, 2014 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 6578518)
Or just publicly admit that the population densities of that area of the city will never be high enough to justify a $2.3 billion dollar extension, and that a better use of funds would be upgrading existing corridors (South Shore ME and Blue Island ME), and a Southside BRT network.

You know what THEY say...... Never say never.

BVictor1 May 16, 2014 1:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rigby (Post 6579190)
Coming from someone that used live the Roseland area and visit for family , I don't see the need for the extension. Roseland and West Pullman are low density areas, more a residential area with houses. Also to top it off, the area's population is declining

Which could be a good reason for the extension. Plug the leak of population of the area and rezone parcels along the line higher density.

I'm sick of the southside being written off.

pip May 16, 2014 3:31 AM

I have keep forgetting to ask this. When on the Brown Line going towards the Loop just south of the Armitage stop to the right of the Brown Line tracks when looking South towards the Loop are new tracks being placed. What is going on there?

BVictor1 May 16, 2014 4:12 AM

New Metra station approved at plan commission 05/15/14

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4...D720/ry%3D480/

emathias May 16, 2014 4:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVictor1 (Post 6580025)
Which could be a good reason for the extension. Plug the leak of population of the area and rezone parcels along the line higher density.

I'm sick of the southside being written off.

Wouldn't $2.2 billion be better spent making it safe and attractive to live near the EXISTING South Side rail system? People don't live on the South Side because they're either scared or tired of poor service. Adding a white elephant to the cost structure of the CTA is exactly the wrong way to go about improving the South Side. $2.2 billion would go a LONG way to subsidize increased Green Line frequency and improve police activity to bring down crime levels near it. Bump up the zoning near the existing Green Line stations and require TOD design and the South (Side) just might rise again. But force the CTA to increase their operating budget without an increase in new ridership and South Side service levels will go down, crime will stay the same, and population will continue to fall.

Improving service without spending outrageous sums of money to do it isn't "writing off" the South Side, but spending billions on something not needed while ignoring other very real, very pressing needs should be considered a patronizing insult to the South Side.

emathias May 16, 2014 4:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip (Post 6580154)
I have keep forgetting to ask this. When on the Brown Line going towards the Loop just south of the Armitage stop to the right of the Brown Line tracks when looking South towards the Loop are new tracks being placed. What is going on there?

They are refurbishing the stretch of the Brown Line tracks between Armitage and the River to eliminate slow zones.

http://www.transitchicago.com/ravenswoodconnector/

pip May 16, 2014 4:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6580208)
They are refurbishing the stretch of the Brown Line tracks between Armitage and the River to eliminate slow zones.

http://www.transitchicago.com/ravenswoodconnector/

Ah ok thanks. I read through the link and other links, but still it seems as if they are adding an additional, fifth, set of tracks to the right of the current Brown Line tracks looking west from the Brown Line train heading towards the Loop. I'm curious as to what that is for.

UPChicago May 16, 2014 4:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6580206)
Wouldn't $2.2 billion be better spent making it safe and attractive to live near the EXISTING South Side rail system? People don't live on the South Side because they're either scared or tired of poor service. Adding a white elephant to the cost structure of the CTA is exactly the wrong way to go about improving the South Side. $2.2 billion would go a LONG way to subsidize increased Green Line frequency and improve police activity to bring down crime levels near it. Bump up the zoning near the existing Green Line stations and require TOD design and the South (Side) just might rise again. But force the CTA to increase their operating budget without an increase in new ridership and South Side service levels will go down, crime will stay the same, and population will continue to fall.

Improving service without spending outrageous sums of money to do it isn't "writing off" the South Side, but spending billions on something not needed while ignoring other very real, very pressing needs should be considered a patronizing insult to the South Side.

YES! A Green Line extension would be 1000% a better option!

BVictor1 May 16, 2014 5:41 AM

Quote:

Bump up the zoning near the existing Green Line stations and require TOD design and the South (Side) just might rise again. But force the CTA to increase their operating budget without an increase in new ridership and South Side service levels will go down
I agree with the upping of the density along the green line, and there's a 3rd Ward meeting with Ald. Dowell this Thursday

When: May 22nd, 6-8pm
Where: Washington Park Arts Incubator (301 E. Garfield Blvd.)

Who's forcing the CTA to increase their operating budget? The extension is kind of their plans and idea.

the urban politician May 16, 2014 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6580206)
Wouldn't $2.2 billion be better spent making it safe and attractive to live near the EXISTING South Side rail system? People don't live on the South Side because they're either scared or tired of poor service. Adding a white elephant to the cost structure of the CTA is exactly the wrong way to go about improving the South Side. $2.2 billion would go a LONG way to subsidize increased Green Line frequency and improve police activity to bring down crime levels near it. Bump up the zoning near the existing Green Line stations and require TOD design and the South (Side) just might rise again. But force the CTA to increase their operating budget without an increase in new ridership and South Side service levels will go down, crime will stay the same, and population will continue to fall.

Improving service without spending outrageous sums of money to do it isn't "writing off" the South Side, but spending billions on something not needed while ignoring other very real, very pressing needs should be considered a patronizing insult to the South Side.

^. Very well said. Clearly the massive dead zones around the Green Line are ample evidence that having transit alone will do nothing to stimulate development on the south side.

The Red Line extension and the Illiana project are both wasteful boondoggles that need to go away. This city has too many of its priorities wrong.

And goddamn it, there are far too many strip malls in Chicago! Sorry, I had to add that last little rant after spending a lot of time in the city yesterday

emathias May 16, 2014 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip (Post 6580225)
Ah ok thanks. I read through the link and other links, but still it seems as if they are adding an additional, fifth, set of tracks to the right of the current Brown Line tracks looking west from the Brown Line train heading towards the Loop. I'm curious as to what that is for.

I don't know and haven't seen the trackwork there, but I think they used to have turn-back tracks for staging purposes of work equipment or rush hour trains in that vicinity that they occasionally used. That might be what they're used for. But like I said, I don't actually know.


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:25 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.