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downtownphxguy12 Apr 6, 2016 8:31 PM

mckinely 7th ave project

first attempt at getting pictures to site

downtownphxguy12 Apr 6, 2016 8:34 PM

that didnt work

CrestedSaguaro Apr 6, 2016 8:52 PM


Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12 (Post 7397626)

Flickr is hard to post images with. I use thr Imgur app myself. As soon as it uploads, it allows you to copy the direct image link.

PHX31 Apr 6, 2016 8:55 PM


Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12 (Post 7397564)
they're restoring the two buildings on mckinley and hope to put small retail or office in them. bar will have a small patio on the east side.

I own the building to the east and might take my site wall down from 6 ft to 3 ft and put an entrance so i can access it more easily.

the alley between us used to be a big homeless handout. nice to see them move on

Very cool! Thanks for the info. I looked on your link and I'm happy to see the plans.

biggus diggus Apr 6, 2016 9:28 PM


Originally Posted by downtownphxguy12 (Post 7397623)

first attempt at getting pictures to site

hey neighbor, love what you're doing over there, I've been keeping an eye on the renovation progress since you started.

downtownphxguy12 Apr 6, 2016 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by biggus diggus (Post 7397736)
hey neighbor, love what you're doing over there, I've been keeping an eye on the renovation progress since you started.

I wish it was my project, im the neighbor to the east. the two story building on the sw corner of mckinley and 6th ave. It was a half way house we converted to offices.

i knew you were somewhere in the area from your posts.

Just found out there is a coffee shop just around the corner on 5th ave. geared towards families?

biggus diggus Apr 6, 2016 10:18 PM

Definitely geared toward families. They have some learning and growing to do, the poor barista in there didn't know what I meant when I offered three descriptions of cold brewed coffee "toddy, cold brew, iced coffee". Eventually he ended up making me an Americano while I wondered to myself how he landed a job in a coffee shop.

They are mostly a tea store though, but I definitely got a weird vibe in there.

Jjs5056 Apr 8, 2016 3:36 AM


Originally Posted by Obadno (Post 7397191)
I don't think it is that silly,

It is two stops from Roosevelt and 2 stops from the east lake park residences by train and only a couple of blocks from 3rd/Roosevelt.

people using the grocery store downtown wont be making large grocery trips they can walk a couple blocks.

anyone doing a large grocery trip would drive anyway.:shrug:

I agree that anyone doing a decent amount of grocery shopping would choose to drive than bring a wheel barrel. If one assumes this to be the case, what is the advantage of driving to Block 23 where parking will be structured (god forbid!), traffic might be jammed, etc., vs. just heading down to McDowell? This is an honest question.

CityScape has 200 units and is the only really walkable residential project nearby. Contrast that to the Central/McKinley area, where Linear, iLuminate, Alliance, Union, and enHance (excluding quite a few others) have the same # of units, and ASU is just south. That's a mass of nearby residents who can do "last-minute" or "essentials" shopping by foot, bike, or rail that probably won't ever be possible for Block 23 (assume Barrister gets its 100 units; the only other possible spots within walking distance for development are the lots surrounding Barrister that are land-banked, and Madison 1st St-Central if the St. James stump is demo'd).

if this were being proposed on any random lot, I would agree with whoever posted "why not?" as in "having one hear doesn't hurt and another can go north later." But, I would consider this the hottest piece of property in all of downtown and is surrounded by successful, active blocks on all sides. If this is designed properly within a mixed use project, that would be great. But, if not, a large portion of space across from CityScape, USAC, and Colliers will have been wasted on something that could have been built anywhere in downtown's limits.

Whoever posted the pics of Chicago's version of an urban grocery store shows why I am hesitant. That is exactly what CAN'T happen here. This urban safeway project is *exactly* how I'd like to see Block 23 developed, replacing the left 2 towers with a taller condo-tel, and having the tower in the back (i.e., facing 2nd st) be office:

Note that this project has active uses along all of its sides; translated to Block 23, this would mean something like:
1) 1st St would have Safeway's entrance and windows, garage ramp flanked by 2 small stores, and a corner restaurant/bar at Washington/1st St
2) Jefferson would have 3-5 retail spaces hiding the windowless part of the Fry's; underneath the office tower could be something like a Nike Concept Store
3) 2nd Street could have the office lobby, 1-2 small restaurants, loading docks and office garage ramp
4) Washington could have the hotel restaurant/bar on the 1st St corner, residential/condo lobby, one more nightlife/bar space, and a West Elm/HomeGoods on the corner of 2nd St

I don't expect more than 1/4 of the lot to be developed, but it would be great if at least the right side of that photo was built - residents and jobs would be great additions.

Jjs5056 Apr 8, 2016 4:30 AM

Now, this is the kind of project, architecture, and density Phoenix needs. This was designed for Davis, who won the original Barrister bid with PB Bell; but, their proposal was for two, 6-story buildings. And, Davis did not submit a bid for the 2nd RFP, unless it was under a different name. So, I'm not sure why this was commissioned or if it ever had a realistic shot at being submitted by Davis for the site, but 6 stories/100ish units (which is the same as Crescent proposed for its winning proposal the 2nd time) on this site is pure stupidity, and this rendering shows how well-done modern architecture can complement the scale of smaller historic buildings regardless of height.


I love everything about it, down to the integration of digital signage that isn't an embarrassment to the half-assed Legends Entertainment District like the fucking TV monitors on top of CVS and Alliance Bank.

In fact, I think that design shows off the Barrister much better than the original plans. I've never seen this amount of detail re: those plans, and while I'm happy this won't be built, I don't expect much more from Crescent. IMO, designing buildings at exactly the same height make the Barrister disappear and the extreme - and ugly - modernism of the new buildings make it look to be the odd one out.


I don't trust RED to do much right, but if they say they're building residential on Block 23, at least they'll be giving us a 20+ floor tower. 6 stories barely makes a dent in Evans Churchill... on Jefferson/Central? Pathetic.

biggus diggus Apr 8, 2016 4:37 AM

Looks like someone was just having fun. A 38 story building won't be able to go on that site.

Jjs5056 Apr 8, 2016 7:19 AM


Originally Posted by RonnieFoos (Post 7397521)
I think most of us want street life and density which is currently the trend that Phoenix is going in. Having an occasional 200ft building thrown in (such as Circles and Derby) help add to that density without going overboard on height when it's not needed right now in Phoenix.

I certainly prefer street life to height, but firstly, the character or size of a skyline does mean something. For a downtown with such a small imprint, the lack of towers means a lack of jobs and lack of residents. It's telling that downtown doesn't have a single impressive tower; the residents of the metro area simply don't take pride in downtown as the heart of their city. And so, we have our few HQs choosing the suburbs, when in other cities, they'd be building impressive towers downtown. Picture the State Farm towers combined into 2 single highrises on Block 23, or a UofP/Apollo tower on 7th Street/Fillmore that used copper like the I-10 midrises? Adams, Monroe, and Van Buren would be filled with towers if companies like Avnet, First Solar, Coldstone, Waste Management, Henkel, and so many more felt that they had to be located in the city center. We should be talking about a flagship Sprouts with rooftop urban farm for Block 23, yet it's miles north in exurbs. I hope one day, a few of these relocate because it would have a domino effect that just doesn't happen when the only leases signed are from tenants who used to be down the street.

Downtown also lacks consumer goods retail, and many stores would be more willing to open on the ground level space of the tallest tower downtown, or one with great architecture. It's too bad ASU and the PBC are so sprawled, because their designs above the first floor are impressive. There should be at least 1 liberal arts college downtown that would certainly need to build for classrooms, offices, and dorms. Not to mention the jobs they would generate. If MCCCD hadn't half-assed it with Phoenix College and Rio Salado downtown, even a Central Phoenix CC the size of MCC could've helped transform 7th Avenue.

As for your first sentence, though, the defense on here used to be that a city of midrises filling the skyline was preferable to 1 or 2 500'+ towers. But, I've been told multiple times that street life doesn't matter in criticizing the majority of what's going up right now. I don't know how someone could defend the PBC, ASU's campus, Alta Fillmore, and Linear and then say that a city is defined by its street life and not by its towers. What do these projects bring to the city that a tower wouldn't? HINT: you can't say jobs, residents, etc., because obviously taller = more of those same things. So, it's basically gone from "street life > height," to "anything > nothing," which is why Phoenix has neither an icon in its skyline or a defining district or feature, (Balboa Park, 16th St. Mall and Union Station, Power & Lights, The Riverwalk). Support of demolishing Circles for a generic 20-story building is something people would have tooth and nail for a decade ago (we lost a W for the Sun Merc!), but explaining why its presence is important is becoming irrelevant as the creative class flocks to Grand Ave.

*DISCLAIMER* And, none of this means that good things aren't happening. But, I would still take a Luhrs Building over the Marriott being built any day. I want to see the pockets of action to stand a chance at one day being connected, though, and so I'm going to be mad when a parking garage is proposed for 80% of Central Station, or the awesome new businesses between Garfield-McKinley are kept separated from Roosevelt by crap like Linear.

Jjs5056 Apr 8, 2016 7:27 AM


Originally Posted by biggus diggus (Post 7399857)
Looks like someone was just having fun. A 38 story building won't be able to go on that site.

Yes, obviously, since the winner is building 6-story condos with a grand total of 111 units. My point was how out of scale that is for the lot, and that the height of the Barrister didn't need to arbitrarily shorten any new buildings as has been implied.

6-stories anywhere in the CBD is a pretty terrible use of land, but especially here when we were just talking about the need for residential density to support the grocery store, and the fact that it's in the middle of the most concentrated retail node.

biggus diggus Apr 8, 2016 1:50 PM


Originally Posted by Jjs5056 (Post 7399936)
Yes, obviously, since the winner is building 6-story condos with a grand total of 111 units. My point was how out of scale that is for the lot, and that the height of the Barrister didn't need to arbitrarily shorten any new buildings as has been implied.

6-stories anywhere in the CBD is a pretty terrible use of land, but especially here when we were just talking about the need for residential density to support the grocery store, and the fact that it's in the middle of the most concentrated retail node.

Oh, sorry, I didn't read your whole post before i replied, when there are that many words I just skim so that's why I didn't get your general point.

ASU Diablo Apr 8, 2016 4:51 PM

Retail, restaurants and co-working concept coming soon to the u.s. Bank tower
Update on Union Market @ US Bank Building


Union Market is set to make its Phoenix debut this November with plans for a co-working space, an indoor food and retail marketplace and shared office suite.

The 55,000-square-foot project is quite the undertaking. The concept will usher in small restaurant concepts, shops and services, and an entrepreneurial spirit to the vacant ground floor, top floor and, later, the basement of the U.S. Bank tower.

“We really allow access to big markets that small stores can’t afford or won’t get the opportunity to locate in,” said Russell Young, who heads the project. “Some of the smaller, really viable concepts just need a place to land, exposure and a place to meet their customers.”

He said they look for the best concepts — businesses they feel have passionate owners, great product and service, and that will fit the Union Market identity.

“I’m trying to the build the market as a whole to be successful, and so the content and how it all comes together is really important,” Young said.

A Phoenix native, Young spent the last 20 years in California but jumped at the chance to work on a project in his hometown.

“I love Phoenix. I’ve been waiting for downtown to get to that point, and right now it’s just thriving,” he said. “I took one look at this building, and I looked at the perimeter of this building, and I knew I had to be downtown.”

Transforming both the ground floor and top floor into shared storefront and office space — Young said the Union Market will truly rebrand the building. The concept will do away with the traditional office tower lobby and replace it with a business marketplace, cafe-style seating and retail space. The top floor will provide private and shared office suites to creatives and entrepreneurs.

Though the designs aren’t official, Young said major renovations are planned for the exterior of the building.

The new design includes extending the storefront to the edge of the property line, adding patio space, and building a new steel and concrete facade — to mirror that of the adjacent 111 W. Monroe building — with immense, floor-to-ceiling windows, some of which will open up to the outside.

“When people get to Monroe on First Avenue, they’ll feel like they’re coming into a district,” he said. “It’s going to have a symmetry to it between the two buildings.”

Upon completion, the first floor alone would accommodate more than 20 different businesses — a few of which he has secured and many that are nearly secure including a Mexican restaurant called Mole, a Cajun restaurant, a coffee shop and bakery, and a few retail stores.

“It’s urban, it’s real, it’s passion — all the people are just really vested in what they’re doing,” he said.

And while Young’s excited for the ground floor, he couldn’t stop raving about the concept just 30 stories above.

Taking up the entire top floor — all 14,000 square feet of it — Young has plans to turn the space into a hub for entrepreneurs, creators and innovators. Young said they plan to divide the space into a co-working space called The Society, private offices and storefronts, as well as a cafe, beer and wine bar (with incredible views looking down Central Avenue).

He said it’s designed to be as flexible as possible with built-in garage doors instead of drywall, so Union Market can adjust the size of the office suites — and therefore the rent — to fit an entrepreneur’s financial and spatial needs. Essentially, the concept would give companies a chance to have a storefront space they wouldn’t otherwise be able to afford.

“It’s very hard for someone to come in, spend the money on a lawyer to get through their lease with a big developer,” he said. “With us, it’s scalable. They can come in and take 200, 400, 1000 square feet.”

Young is also working on a project in Mesa, called Mesa Riverview that will also cluster several small businesses, restaurant concepts and retail shops in one are central location. However, the Downtown Phoenix project is further along in the process.

Build-out of the top floor is now underway, which Young expects to be fully complete within the next three months. Renovations of the ground floor will begin soon, and are expected to wrap up in November.

gymratmanaz Apr 8, 2016 7:02 PM

That looks amazing!!!!!!!!

nickw252 Apr 8, 2016 7:08 PM

Why does the palm tree on the right look like it's falling over? :D

KingLouieLouie76 Apr 10, 2016 11:59 PM

This could be intriguing...especially on how Cityscape can potentially fit into the equation....

ASU Diablo Apr 11, 2016 12:08 AM


That's what I have said all along...let COP run the ballpark. This was never about DBacks leaving...but rather finding a new partner. Sports Mecca would be awesome and I hope it happens. Maybe a partnership between the city, DBacks, and other investors can bring back JSED

PHX31 Apr 11, 2016 5:12 PM

Aren't these the guys that took up shop in the Luhrs Tower?

nickw252 Apr 12, 2016 1:48 PM

More info on the Fry's. kjzz


The man who led the design and construction of Ralph’s grocery store in downtown Los Angeles will do the same with Fry’s in Phoenix. That’s what a representative for the developer told members of the Downtown Phoenix Partnership Monday.

The main entrance for the grocery store will be on the corner of 1st and Jefferson streets, according to Jeff Moloznik, vice president of development at RED Development.

Fry's will take up 45,000 square feet on the street level with another 10,000 square feet just below, where baking and other preparation will take place before products are moved to the sales floor. Fry’s will make up the base of one tower with its pharmacy, parking and office space above the food store.

Moloznik said the high-rise construction will include a second tower with approximately 300 residential units. Phoenix council members must approve the plan, which could happen as early as June.

Fry’s wants to open downtown in 2018.

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