Yeah. 50% of activity on the Orange Line is already at the last two stations. The Orange extension would serve the following purposes:

1. Improve reverse commute due to the major employment district along Cicero between 75th and 83rd.
2. Enhance the accessibility of rapid transit service via feeder buses.
3. Greatly expand the Park n Ride capacity. The lots at Midway and Pulaski stations are filled by 7:00-7:30am every weekday morning.
4. Provide an option for southwest siders and near-southwest suburbanites to get downtown on weekends or late night, when the Metra SWS doesn't run. This is a minor benefit and mostly useful for special events.
5. Serve a rather high number of transit-dependent riders (not as high as the Red extension, though).

Of the three extensions (R/O/Y), I think this one would have the most immediate benefit. It would already serve Ford City if there had been enough money back in the late 80s to build it that far. The Red extension would improve service to an area with high transit dependency and low density, meaning the net impact on system revenue/ridership is rather neutral. The Yellow extension serves another significant employment sector, but that area is so non-transit-dependent that it will take some time for development and trip patterns to make full use of the new service.

There's also a simple question of time-distance here. The Orange extension terminus is best positioned out of all the three to provide an excellent option for commuting to downtown (commute trips being the bread and butter of transit ridership). A Yellow extension would not provide an attractive commute option to the Loop, nor would the Red at 130th. Both commuters would have more attractive (i.e. faster) Metra options; a large parking garage could be built at 130th but then you're still talking a ~40-45 minute ride into the loop, versus about 30 minutes from Ford City.

If you factor in political and social justice considerations, Red is the obvious priority for corridor transit improvements, but from a dispassionate system operational standpoint I think Orange comes out on top. Then of course there are the cost/benefit ratio measurements, where Yellow might be a sleeper hit since it doesn't require immense bridges, trenches, or other elevated structures, unlike the other two; just one tricky grade separation at Dempster.

^ One last benefit that you forgot to mention: Everyone will know where Ford City is... ;)

^ What's wrong with you people? I don't even live in Chicago and I've been to the Ford City area twice, along with staying at the Bedford Park hotel area three times.

I know this is cheesy, but I LOVE that little Bedford Park hotel complex immensely. You can walk to places like Friday's (or is it Applebee's) or cross the Cicero Ave gutter to eat at a little strip mall that has a decent Mexican stand, Chicago style hot dog place, and a few other grub spots. It's "outskirts of the city hotel-urbia" at its best. Oh, and don't forget the free 24-hr shuttles between those hotels and Midway, where you can catch the Orange line into the city.

Obviously this part of town doesn't have the kind of urban density that we all wet our pants over, but as Viva said with the Orange Line extension I can see a hell of a lot of improvements in an already vibrant area. This is truly great news, especially with the news that construction may be 2 years away.

Have you even been to the Ford City area? It's not my first choice, necessarily, but I think an Orange Line extension there holds considerable value if for no other reason than it builds a little more of what could, hopefully, become the Mid-City Transitway.

"There is a real need to find more ways to get people in the south suburbs and southwest suburbs on public transportation into the city," Lipinski said. "Down the line, the question should be where do we go from Ford City."


I think we should push Lipinski to see if we can lock in some olympic related funding to take this line out to Toyota Park. That huge lot just screems massive park n' ride and/or "very remote airport parking" outside of soccer season. The lot just sits there unused half the year. There is a ComEd ROW running between Ford City and Toyota Park, so an extension would require no additional property to purchase, just lay the tracks and an underpass below Cicero and Harlem.


Ford City also has a fairly dense residential complex right next to it, with one of Chicago's most remote high-rises: http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=...chicago-il-usa

i completely agree, with toyota park, a brand new water park, new bars/restaurants that's a spot that would thrive with a direct connection to the cta.

NW Indiana needs some help in the transit department. The center of population has shifted south from Gary and Hammond so re-starting the old Valpo-Chicago Amtrak route, this time as commuter rail would open up mass transit to many more people.

^ That brings up an interesting question. Should transit follow people or should people follow transit?

For the most part, it looks more like the former has been true in Chicagoland (Metra "chasing" people as they move further and further out into the suburbs), but with the rising cost of constructing & expanding rail lines in America, I wonder how long this can be kept up.

That is a good question. Roads definitely follow people. The South Shore Line has seen a surge in ridership but for a lot of NW Indiana residents, is too far away to be used. There is a lot of commercial development along U.S. 30 that I think could benefit from re-kindling the old Amtrak route.

Either way, build or no-build, people are moving out further and further south of Gary, so the question for me is, do we give them more travel options?

Its hard to say but I think some Metra extensions are at risk of promoting sprawl rather then reigning it in. Maybe it is more of a personal psychological barrier but I just don't feel that catering to areas outside of the Elgin's, Aurora, and Joliet's of the system is a natural or preferable course for the system to take.

I would like to see a serious push to improving present lines and somehow advocating for density by whatever means rather then chasing thousands of people out into the boonies at a time.

I'm not normally a fan of park-n-rides, but it seems like extending to Toyota Park could actually be a good two-way scenario if used as a park-n-ride for weekday commuters or even some long-term airport parking, and giving easy access from the city to Toyota Park which could help the Fire, the Olympic events there and any other event in that area.

How many events per year does Toyota Park host?

If it gets to the point where there are ~20,000 people going to events 100 times a year maybe it'd be worth it, but otherwise a simple shuttle bus service would more than suffice; and the trip from a 75th Street Ford City terminus would be much closer than the current Midway terminus.

25+ for fire games, add in national team games, concerts, we're looking at approximately 40 events a year which would could generate a guaranteed 20,000 people (fire games this year average around 18,000 and with a direct city connection would sell out pretty regularly). couple that with lesser attractions at the park (the soon to be womens soccer pro team, lacrosse team) and the eventual water park/entertainment district at that intersection I'd say there's a genuine market to be served in the near future for a limited investment.

But how many of those people are coming from downtown?

well, for fire games a good portion are coming from downtown/north side but there's a significant population which used to go to see games at soldier field but now won't because it's too inaccessible. while there's a shuttle run by pace from midway, its an extra transfer, another $3, and 20 minutes; when you're coming from the north side that extra transfer and time just kills the willingness to make the trip. i have had so many people tell me that they'd go to more games at toyota park or would be willing to go period if it was just on the orange line. i know that i've stopped taking the orange line there because its just too much time when i can just spend another $7 on a chartered bus and save 30 minutes (and grab a couple of beers on the way).

Ahh, like me... back around 2000-2001 I went to almost every home game, but I haven't been to a single one since they built the new park.

I'm still skeptical that there is enough trip density to justify an actual rail extension. It would be fine as a convenient intermediate stop that could foster TOD (e.g. Madison on the Pink Line or Damen on the Green Line) but as a terminus?

From a commuter population standpoint, the Ford City terminus would still serve many Bridgeview residents as a Park N Ride lot. And for the money it would cost to build an extension to Toyota Park you could substantially build an HOV lane / express bus system on I-55.

Never say never, but any extension out there would absolutely have to be accompanied by serious land use changes (e.g. Bridgeview planning/zoning for a new dense downtown activity node) to be justifiable for rail service.

my understanding is that's what bridgeview is doing to the surrounding area. i'd agree that toyota park in-of-itself isn't large enough to justify an extension but over the next few years that area is targeted for increased retail and entertainment density and an extension in co-ordination with the existing project would facilitate the right type of development in the area.

Huh? I've never had a problem driving or walking there. What's the problem with Soldier Field's access?

not soldier field, toyota park.

TODAY! I can't go, but hopefully some of you can....
 

COMMUNITY MEETING:

Tuesday, August 19, 2008 at 6 pm

McCormick Place West, Room W190 (First Floor)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hosted by Alderman Bob Fioretti and Alderman Pat Dowell, in conjunction
with the RTA, CTA, and Chicago Department of Planning and Development,
to discuss a feasability study on two potential new green line el
stops, one at 18th Street, and one at Cermak Rd.
The purpose of the meeting is to get feedback from the community on the
types of development and amenities they would like to see in and around
these new stations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DETAILS:

WHEN:
Tuesday, August 19th, 6pm
WHERE:
McCormick Place West, Room W190 (First Floor)
**Complimentary Parking Available in Lot 'A'
WHY:

To discuss a feasibility study for two potential new
Green Line 'el' stops at 18th Street, and Cermak, and gather
community feedback onTransit-Friendly Development.

----
Note the irony of providing free parking at a event to discuss TOD. I hoping some of you can go and bring some intellegence to a room to be likley staked with NIMBYs. I can already hear the shreaking of PDNA.

^I've been thinking a stop at 16th would make more sense 'cause both the orange and green would be able to use it. Either way, these stops would provide much needed L access to the burgeoning near south side. I don't think I can make it to the meeting, but I'll see.

Conveniently on the same night as the Orange Line extension meeting out at Ford City.

^^ The CTA is seeking neighborhood feedback, and each meeting deals with transit improvements in a radically different part of the city. I'm sure the CTA isn't expecting somebody to try to attend both meetings.

I'm not sure about the Green Line meeting being a NIMBY fest. A stop at Cermak would decrease neighborhood traffic by allowing more access to McCormick Place, and reducing the through-traffic in the Prairie District. Plus, the Cermak corridor is still very lightly-populated compared to further north. The 18th Street stop may draw more anger, though.

Since Fioretti is apparently involved in this somehow, hopefully we can expect a meeting soon about the Morgan station in the West Loop (also in the 2nd Ward). Maybe the CTA will pursue Morgan if there is too much opposition to the 18th Street stop.

Since when did common sense and PDNA coincide? I'm sure their biggest concern will be more anticipated development in the nearby area, development which should be required with this type of public investment. I would like to know how Bob "Greenest ward in the city" Firoretti will embrace new TOD plans around this station should it progress forward.

There's opposition to a CTA station at 18th? In God's name, why? Wouldn't that be a boon to everyone who lives there? A boon to their property values, a reduction of traffic? Who loses on that?

^ No shortage of morons in tacky condos, my friend....

Well, the only argument I can see being used against the station would be a crime argument... since a Green Line station would provide a direct link between that part of the South Loop and dangerous neighborhoods further down the Green Line.

Because everyone knows the CTA makes the best getaway vehicle.

Actually, I think it's just that the south loop meeting is a DPD/CDOT project since it's downtown, and not CTA-administered like the Alternative Analysis studies.

So did anybody go to the meeting? How were the NIMBY shitbags tonight, were they on good behavior?

this just shows what is wrong with the public transit process, they have to dance through hoops to get even the most logical projects done. They shouldn't even have to ask for community support, if qualified people say that a stop there makes sense then just do it. Heck, they should have a stop at 16th and cermak.

You have to wonder if any new lines will ever be constructed after the decades it will take to do feasibility studies, alternatives analysis, impact studies, just freakin' grab the land and build the damn thing. If there is one area other than education where you can generally throw indiscriminate amounts of money and expect a return on investment, it's in infrastructure. Due process blows.

also, you have to remember that its not just the condo commandos that make up nimbies. the ghetto communities have some of the worst nimbies out there.

The "i want to pretend i still live in bloomingdale" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it will encourage new development thus bring more people, life, action to the area (things most of us consider good in an urban environment)

The "i do nothing to help my neighborhood because we're disenfranchised" nimby doesn't want the new stop because it means new people will be heading into their area and they'll lose the power they have in the community. They don't care if their community stagnates just so long as they control what happens (i.e. pretty much the entire south side, especially chatham)

And if people in the area are worried about crime, they shouldn't be. All the gang bangers already hang out at the roosevelt station when they either come over from douglas park on the #12 bus (like the 3 guys who murdered another by pushing a kid onto the tracks) or from the green or red line.

The Orange Line meeting was well-attended - I'd guess around 75-100 attendees total - and seemed to generally have very positive support from the wide mix of community members, business owners, and the handful of elected officials in attendance. They all seemed to be excited about the investment, aside from a couple isolated comments re: crime (as if Ford City is an idyllic paradise right now....sorry, guys...) and only wish the Federal funding process didn't take so long.

Hey - you have to realize that many of the people living in the South Loop probably think this way. They're totally misguided, of course, but what do you expect from a bunch of aging suburban-expat baby boomers who think they need to lock their doors to drive through Lincoln Park?

is Chicago's west loop transit station dead?
 

Union Station may become Denver's gateway again -- if it stays on track

link

saw this report on Denver's grand plans for a intermodal transit center. it seems like there is a plethora of car-dependent western and southern cities, whose beefed-up transit systems are beginning to make Chicago look bad (charlotte, denver, dallas, etc.) is the west loop transportation center just another one of those long forgotten much talked-about pipe dreams that we'll read about and yearn for, for the next 20 years with chagrined hearts and teary eyes on chicago-l.org??

I lock my doors driving through Lincoln Park - frat boys are SCARY!

Seriously? I mean, those cities are doing praiseworthy extensions (largely because of the federal funding guidelines that are biased against dense cities with established transit and towards cities with little/no transit), but come on...

Oh I know, I wasn't snarking at you, rather just at the notion that public transit = crime in my neighborhood.

I love how people who didn't even attend the meeting have made up mythical comments from nonexistent residents so they can complain about the NIMBYs.

I'm not aware of anything but feverish support for the idea of a South Loop Green Line station. The question to be resolved is whether it should be at 18th or at Cermak.

I didn't make up anything. I am justing stating that I would expect NIMByism to show up based on my experiance with some people living in the South Loop in various community meetings and then durring the municipal campaign season, and my own NIMBY cousin who lives over on 16th Street. PDNA is filled with idiots who should not have moved next door to the largest convention center in North America, and have pushed for things like Cul-de-sacing Calumet Avenue. This station should bring in new density, bring in more pedestrains (and more "crime") and this is what they fear. They want sterile suburbia at 18th and Prairie. Now if there wern't any objections, then that is great, and a step forward in the right direction.

... did anyone actually attend the South Loop meeting, and if so, what was the tenor?




Also, I thought I'd share this interesting Reader article from 1997 (originally linked from the Hyde Park Progress blog) about the demolition of the Jackson Park leg of the Green Line.

https://securesite.chireader.com/cgi...r%20brazier%22

Wow, great article. I have already read through the archives and related articles over at Chicago-L.org; but this one really angers me. I really hate Arthur Brazier, he just orchistarted his power to make people belive the El was the cause of all the problems in woodlawn. Now that the scapegoat is gone, and his vison of turning Woodlawn's 63rd Street into a auto-centric suburban community has never materialized, we still have a blighted strecth of vacant lots. Hmmm, guess the el wasn't the reason for 63rd's blight, in fact there are even fewer businesses now. I'm glad it stayed vacant, and I hope this Columbia Pointe garbage now proposed for the land is a victom of the sour housing market. If you think Lowenburg high-rises are bad, then you don't want to see his single family homes planned for 63rd Street.

Why is it that all of the stupid crap always happens on the south side of Chicago?

as i south looper myself, my impression of people's sentiment is not so much that the transit "creates" crime (which it most certainly does not) but that the south loop's actual location lends it self to co-mingling of the gentry and the ghetto. The roosevelt and wabash intersection serves as a point of entry to the downtown area for a lot of surrounding areas that are not what you would call "safe" communities (douglas park to the west and whatever you call the area between the south loop/Chinatown & Bridgeport/IIT). It is kind of similar to the weird element that congregates around clark and division or at least when cabrini was still there.

I do think that you can say in some instances the transit station attracts crime. Would the thugs be there if there was no station? No, they'd go someplace else. But again, the crime is indicative of the community and not any inherent characteristic of transit. When a person blames transit for crime in the area its like a hitter blaming the fence for being too far away as the reason for not hitting a home run.


^^^ TUP, i really do think the "gang" mentality permeates even the good south side communities. They are so intent on protecting their turf that they turn away any potential connection with something outside their dominion. For example, most of the north side communities have made very little noise regarding potential venues and housing for the olympic games, yet most of the south side communities see this as an opportunity to leverage their power. I've worked on a few south side building projects and the only ones that make it with aldermanic approval are the ones that have a particular street organization or block group's blessing. They end up exerting their control so absolutely that any real dollars that could come in and revamp an area look elsewhere for the "low hanging fruit".

With the potential for density in that area, I'd be okay with one at each.

Did anyone go to the August CTA Board meeting? Were there really no presentations, as reported on transitchicago.com?

.......I rode the Blue Line in from O'Hare ......there didn't appear to be any slow zones ?! .......or was I just lucky that time ?

^There are still a few slow zones between Addison and Jefferson Park, and I think the speed is still limited to 35mph around some of the special trackwork (e.g. crossovers). But the overall travel time from O'Hare to Clark/Lake is finally down to a respectable 41-44 minutes.

What's the ideal travel time, if the tracks and signals are all in good condition and there are no accidents or bad weather? Will the new Blue Line railcars be able to reduce this time with better acceleration or possibly a higher speed?

.........once again the Red Line is being re-routed to elevated for the weekend ? .....what are they doing in the subway......and when will it all be finished ?

The same thing they have already done in the subway from Clark/Division to Roosevelt, replacing the wooden half ties with concrete and installing dampened tie plates. They're scheduled to be done in the next month and a half IIRC.

Well they're working like crazy. I was on the Kennedy at 2am last night, and it was an army out on the tracks, at about Montrose.