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Arquitect Oct 2, 2012 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5852171)
That building would be too small for the permanent museum. Unless they maybe built an extension onto that surface lot North of the building.

For reference the Circles Discs building is 36K sq ft, they want 45K. I think the Circles building would be rad, but they'd need to build an extension onto that parking lot North of it. I'm not sure how interested they are in constructing new extensions like that.

I love the idea of the museum. Although, I would like to see it go up further north, close to the Phoenix Art Museum. It isn't that I don't think a museum would work downtown, but I think there is potential for that area to become an awesome cultural district (In a similar way to Dallas' Arts and Culture District). You already have the Heard Museum, Burton Barr Central Library, Phoenix Theater and the PAM, as well as the new headquarters for the ballet company. It would be great to see smaller museums take over some of the empty lots or some of the large parking lots in the area.

Since it was being developed, I have thought that having the Musical Instrement Museum in the far edge of the city was a huge missed opportunity. Eventhough it is an ugly building, it is a really awesome museum. It is a shame it is too far to get to. I would have loved to see it be in this area.

HooverDam Oct 2, 2012 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arquitect (Post 5852406)
I love the idea of the museum. Although, I would like to see it go up further north, close to the Phoenix Art Museum. It isn't that I don't think a museum would work downtown, but I think there is potential for that era to become an awesome cultural district (In a similar way to Dallas' Arts and Culture District)You already have the Heard, the Central Library, the Phoenix Theater and the PAM, as well as the new headquarters for the ballet company. It would be great to see smaller museums take over some of the empty lots or some of the large parking lote in the area.

I get what you're saying, but I also understand why they want to do it directly downtown. THey want to be walking distance to the Convention Center so people who are visiting downtown have something can quickly/easily do.

Plus all of the museums are easily reachable via LRT, so though they're not pilled up in a single district, I think it works.

nickw252 Oct 3, 2012 1:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5852680)
Plus all of the museums are easily reachable via LRT, so though they're not pilled up in a single district, I think it works.

I would prefer them to be piled into a single Museum District.

Arquitect Oct 3, 2012 1:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5852680)
I get what you're saying, but I also understand why they want to do it directly downtown. THey want to be walking distance to the Convention Center so people who are visiting downtown have something can quickly/easily do.

Plus all of the museums are easily reachable via LRT, so though they're not pilled up in a single district, I think it works.

I agree that any museum anywhere in the urban core is a plus. And as long as it is by the light rail, I am pretty content. The Museum District idea is getting nit-picky about where it should go. From my personal experience as a tourist, visiting museums in cities like Atlanta, Dallas, and San Diego (where several museums are located in clusters) often makes it an easier experience; it has also led me to go check out some museums that I would otherwise missed, since they are not as famous.

The problem with Phoenix is not so much that there isn't interesting stuff to see, but rather that, like the city itself, it is all over the place. For instance, we have a good number of architecture offices doing really awesome work throughout the city, if a their work was concentrated in the downtown core, I bet we would have architects flocking to see all the great work being done in the city. Unfortunately, most tourists aren't really willing to drive a lot in a city they are not familiar with. It would be great for the city to show some innetiative and make it easier for attractions to take home either in downtown or along the light rail.

HooverDam Oct 3, 2012 5:40 AM

I understand what you guys are saying. My worry/experience with specific "Museum only" kind of districts is they can be kinda dead once the museums close. So I like the idea of everything being a bit more mixed, but still fairly proximate (aka along the LRT).

Hopefully Metro can do a better job in the future promoting all the Cultural/Museum attractions along the line for tourists so that they know all they need is a LRT day pass to see all the best stuff.

combusean Oct 3, 2012 7:13 PM

Phoenix already has a museum district.

http://midtownmuseumdistrict.org/

Midtown Phoenix, or at least the more specific area between McDowell and Park Central is never going to be that much of an urban environment with a strong street scene and businesses open way late. The mostly suburban built environment and prevailing corporate (and yes, museum) uses preclude it.

Not only that, large museums tend to be anti-urban in their construction, so another museum should probably go where it's compatible with the neighborhood.

Tylerrrr Oct 3, 2012 7:37 PM

I like putting the museum in the (kind of) museum district along central, north of mcdowell. The more you can make one small area a destination point, the more marketable it is for tourism.

Another place that could be cool would be somewhere along Hance Park as part of the parks remodel into a "world class" park. It would be good to see a few special destinations places open up there.

HooverDam Oct 3, 2012 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean (Post 5854121)

Not only that, large museums tend to be anti-urban in their construction, so another museum should probably go where it's compatible with the neighborhood.

I agree. Keep in mind though that the TV Museum is going to be pretty small. Only 45K sq ft. Thats about an acre. For a point of reference check out this building, its about the right size:

http://levinemachine.com/34-e-jackson-st

Arquitect Oct 3, 2012 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by combusean (Post 5854121)
Phoenix already has a museum district.

http://midtownmuseumdistrict.org/

Midtown Phoenix, or at least the more specific area between McDowell and Park Central is never going to be that much of an urban environment with a strong street scene and businesses open way late. The mostly suburban built environment and prevailing corporate (and yes, museum) uses preclude it.

Not only that, large museums tend to be anti-urban in their construction, so another museum should probably go where it's compatible with the neighborhood.

I agree with the fact about large museums, plus we already have two large museums in the area (The Art Museum and the Heard), What I would like to see is smaller museums go up in the Museum district. Some could even be incorporated into mix-use projects, where the museum would take up a couple floors of the development, while the rest of the building could house offices or residential. In my opinion, two museums don't really make a museum district, so it would be great to see a few smaller ones spring up.

combusean Oct 4, 2012 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5854174)
I agree. Keep in mind though that the TV Museum is going to be pretty small. Only 45K sq ft. Thats about an acre. For a point of reference check out this building, its about the right size:

http://levinemachine.com/34-e-jackson-st

45k is half a block in downtown Phoenix, and it's unknown whether that 45k is gross or net square feet. Parking and ancillary uses (pavilion space, a cafe, etc) hasn't even been addressed.

I think it's a bad idea to sacrifice yet another block downtown (whose is anyone's guess) for something that has one entrance and MIGHT be open an evening or two a week. Downtown Phoenix has enough of those already.

Tho truthfully, unless somebody is going to drop upwards of $15 million out of the blue on this it's not going to happen anywhere, downtown or midtown.

combusean Oct 5, 2012 5:55 AM

VERY nice to see the Mayor's office working on a proactive solution...

Historic downtown Phoenix hotels may be razed
City, Suns discuss buildings' future
by Dustin Gardiner - Oct. 4, 2012 08:45 PM
The Republic | azcentral.com

Quote:

A block away from US Airways Center arena in downtown Phoenix, the vintage brick facade of the Hotel St. James contrasts with the gleaming lights of soaring high-rises and billboards.

Plywood covers the hotel's windows, but its early 20th century architecture and neon signage hint at a more significant past, before it became known as a flophouse and, now, another vacant urban relic slated for demolition.

Although the St. James and its older sister, the Madison Hotel next door, aren't ornate, they're a rarity in Phoenix -- a city critics say has few historic buildings to show for its storied past. The hotels are among a handful in the Valley that date to around the time of statehood.

But that history could soon turn to rubble if plans to replace the buildings with a parking lot move forward.

Suns Legacy Partners, owner of the NBA team and the property, has pulled a permit to raze the structures. The Suns want to construct a valet parking lot and hope to begin generating income from the land it bought before the recession for about $7 million, city officials said.

Historic-preservation advocates are fighting the demolition, though no legal barriers to the developer remain. They say losing the hotels would once again show Phoenix's preference for pavement over posterity.

"It would be a historic loss, but economically understandable if it was done in the context of redevelopment" said Brendan Mahoney, a senior policy adviser to Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton. "But simply scraping it is a hard pill to swallow."

The Mayor's Office is attempting to broker a solution that's attractive to the Suns' investors and preserves at least a portion of the hotels. His office has proposed a temporary fix: Lend the team nearby city parking space for games, so the buildings can stand until they find a permanent use.

As of Thursday evening, the Suns and city officials had not announced an agreement. A team representative declined to discuss details.

"The Suns continue to engage in discussions with the mayor's office in hopes of coming to a mutually agreed upon solution, and out of respect for those discussions (we) feel that any further comment would be inappropriate at this time," spokesman Casey Taggatz wrote in an e-mail.

The dispute speaks to the difficulties of historic preservation and redevelopment in downtown Phoenix, which is experiencing a cultural and economic renaissance. Companies that invested millions of dollars to snatch up land and vacant structures often aren't inclined to pursue the type of smaller-scale projects that utilize old buildings.

In the case of the hotels St. James and Madison, located at Madison and First streets, the Mayor's Office and preservation activists envision some form of development that incorporates the structures. They say the downtown area already has more than enough parking lots.

Mahoney said it's unlikely the Suns could make a profit by operating the hotels, which are mostly single-occupancy rooms that lack private bathrooms and other amenities modern guests expect. Renovating the buildings would cost an additional $8 million or more, he said.

But Mahoney said by that preventing demolition, the Suns could save some elements of the buildings and incorporate them into future projects. For example, he said the striking lobby and facade of the St. James could potentially become part of some future building, though some advocates decry the idea.

The National Register of Historic Places has listed the St. James since 1985, though the Madison is not listed. Attempts by the city to give the properties a historic-zoning overlay have failed; the previous property owner opposed such a designation in 2000.

Mahoney said the hotels were never luxurious and didn't host notable guests, but are "treasures" nonetheless because of their age and the rarity of historic buildings in Phoenix. Both hotels initially catered to tourists and working-class travelers coming into the Valley on the railroads.

The Madison opened in 1909 and is one of four territorial-period hotels still standing in Phoenix's central business district, according to the Phoenix Historic Preservation Office. Its brick facade has since been stuccoed over and painted white.

In 1929, the St. James followed. Designed by prominent Phoenix architect Lloyd LeRaine Pike, the hotel is by far the more visually appealing of the pair, with its original Spanish Colonial Revival influence facade, classic awnings and neon lighting.

The hotels eventually fell into disrepair, and in more recent decades gained a reputations as cheap boarding houses for transients and drug addicts. A Phoenix New Times piece from 1996 described the St. James' vibe, noting marijuana plants and a plastic syringe could be seen in the alley next to the hotel.

But preservation advocates are optimistic somebody could restore the St. James and Madison to meaningful use. Jim McPherson, president of the Arizona Preservation Foundation, said the hotels would join the ranks of businesses thriving under historic roofs in the surrounding warehouse district.

"Let's be creative about these buildings," McPherson said. "Why does history have to be the victim in this? Preservation is an incredible economic-development tool."

HooverDam Oct 5, 2012 3:50 PM

Word from the inside is the City may end up with a deal where they sacrifice the Madison in order to save the St James. Initially of course they were trying to save both and offered the Suns all sorts of free parking options, i.e. in the Barrister building, the proposed shutting down Madison on game days, etc. but Robert Sarver the worlds biggest shit head is dead set on tearing something down.

PhxMatt Oct 5, 2012 11:31 PM

The links below are from the Cassidy/Turley Website which have some information on a few projects in the midtown area... sorry I cannot download the PDF's on this computer, links was the best I could do.

The former Church on 7th Street and Osborn...
http://www.brephoenix.com/Property/0...bornNWC_CT.pdf

The former Post office on 7th Street and Highland...
http://www.brephoenix.com/Trans/0273...andESEC_CT.pdf

The PDF's have some renderings and how the buildings are being divided. It's nice to see so many things happening on 7th Street, from downtown to Sunnyslope.

Vicelord John Oct 6, 2012 1:08 AM

Interesting, I didn't even realize that post office had closed up, but then I realized when was the last time I needed to go to a post office?

That building will probably need to become a law office/architect/etc. because I don't think the traffic or visibilty is there for a restaurant.

KevininPhx Oct 6, 2012 4:04 PM

Museum of TV
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5851398)
Not sure if I've mentioned this before, but here it goes...

A guy named James Comisar wants to build a Museum of TV in Downtown PHX. This guy owns more TV props/artifacts that the Smithsonian. Here's a link to his idea:

http://museumoftelevision.org/


Not only does this guy want to bring this museum to Phoenix, he wants it to be downtown. When I say Downtown I mean South of the I-10 and within walking ditance to a Light Rail stop.

He really wants to be able to show the City (and his investors) that he's got good community support behind him. So what can you do? 2nd the idea on the MyPlanPHX site here:
http://www.myplanphx.com/shaping-pho...vision-phoenix

and like it on Facebook here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-C...72030246190815


This is a great idea - love it! But I'm concerned that it's not close to other museums. Museums like MIM are a destination. Smaller museums do well when they're part of a bigger museum experience. Still, I support it 100%.

nickw252 Oct 6, 2012 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phxguy (Post 5852312)
http://azremagazine.com/news/evergre...n-office-tower
This is what needs to start happening to the rest of the Midtown high-rises. This is perfect. The urbanization of Midtown/Uptown needs to begin somewhere and this is where it should start (Right in the area that brought about it's death.)

The one floor strip mall across the street from One Thomas facing Central Avenue is being worked on now also. I can't quite tell what's happening yet.

In other uptown news, the hotel looking building at the SE corner of 7th Ave and Thomas looks like it's being worked on. Anyone know what's going on there?

PHX31 Oct 6, 2012 8:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickw252 (Post 5857960)
In other uptown news, the hotel looking building at the SE corner of 7th Ave and Thomas looks like it's being worked on. Anyone know what's going on there?

That building has been worked on then abandoned then worked on for the last eight years. Now apparently it is being turned into $200,000 condos for sale. I can post a link later.

nickw252 Oct 6, 2012 9:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 5857969)
That building has been worked on then abandoned then worked on for the last eight years. Now apparently it is being turned into $200,000 condos for sale. I can post a link later.

I hadn't heard that. Please post a link. It's a nice looking building but it looks more like a hotel than condos. If I were to buy a $200k condo in Phoenix I would at least want a balcony (something that building lacks).

PHX31 Oct 6, 2012 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickw252 (Post 5857976)
I hadn't heard that. Please post a link. It's a nice looking building but it looks more like a hotel than condos. If I were to buy a $200k condo in Phoenix I would at least want a balcony (something that building lacks).

http://www.jimmessenger.com/metropolitan-lofts.php

Upon further review, I think that is what that was going to be before the crash (and before it was going to possibly be a "GW Hotel"). My co-worker sent me that link but it's old.

Vicelord John Oct 6, 2012 10:21 PM

that link is very old, you can especially tell because the link to the picture (probably from a developer website) is showing up as a red x.


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