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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

Pedestrian Jul 24, 2021 8:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9348923)
^^^
They may be back but where are the riders? Used to be so crowded people would be hanging off the sides.
There are not yet any riders. They are training new drivers as apparently a lot of the ones they had before covid retired or otherwise left.

My guess is once the service is fully opened, there will be plenty of riders. Cable cars are essentially open air vehicles unless you chose to ride inside. I'm avoiding Muni's busses and streetcars but I'd hang on the side of a cable car.

Pedestrian Jul 24, 2021 8:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9349040)
Looks like they're testing it. Also, aren't the cable cars mostly just a tourist trap now?
They're not a "tourist trap" at all. If I'm going where they go such as down to the Embarcadero, I love riding them. There were, before covid, and I assume will be again, 3 operational lines. The Powell St lines tend to be dominated by tourists but the one I photographed is the California St line which few of the tourists seem to know about and whose riders are largely locals.

https://www.sfcablecar.com/images/sfroutes.gif
https://www.sfcablecar.com/routes.html

By the way, when this car passed me I smiled and waved and both drivers (one I assume training the other) smiled and waved back. They know how popular the things are.

Pedestrian Jul 24, 2021 8:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9348966)
^ They re all working from home.

That’s the irony of San Francisco’s role of being the premier tech center. A victim of its own success, tech made it possible for all of the overpaid & socially awkward dorks that once commuted to their jobs to now fulfill their lifelong dream of no longer having to interact with people.

They can now eat Cheetos on their couch and play with their computers while getting paid.

Meanwhile the city and commercial landlords sit there wondering, “Now what the fuck are we gonna do?”
Keep building is what they're gonna do:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a492b468_b.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RVOmNLhh.jpg

By the way, since you love calling me "Howard", I'm now calling you "Antoine".

JManc Jul 24, 2021 9:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9349221)
They're not a "tourist trap" at all. If I'm going where they go such as down to the Embarcadero, I love riding them. There were, before covid, and I assume will be again, 3 operational lines. The Powell St lines tend to be dominated by tourists but the one I photographed is the California St line which few of the tourists seem to know about and whose riders are largely locals.

https://www.sfcablecar.com/images/sfroutes.gif
https://www.sfcablecar.com/routes.html

By the way, when this car passed me I smiled and waved and both drivers (one I assume training the other) smiled and waved back. They know how popular the things are.
Didn't ride them but the streetcars are pretty cool piece of history. Just about every city had them at one point but SF kept it real.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...992649ee_b.jpgFisherman's Wharf by ConfusedWithACamera, on Flickr

Nite Jul 25, 2021 2:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9349221)
They're not a "tourist trap" at all. If I'm going where they go such as down to the Embarcadero, I love riding them. There were, before covid, and I assume will be again, 3 operational lines. The Powell St lines tend to be dominated by tourists but the one I photographed is the California St line which few of the tourists seem to know about and whose riders are largely locals.

https://www.sfcablecar.com/images/sfroutes.gif
https://www.sfcablecar.com/routes.html

By the way, when this car passed me I smiled and waved and both drivers (one I assume training the other) smiled and waved back. They know how popular the things are.

If it's not a tourist trap, why don't they use modern vehicles with much greater capacity like everywhere else in the world
In North America, Toronto has a streetcar network that's several magnitudes larger and all vehicles are climate control, modern, high capacity and high frequency

https://www.railinsider.co.uk/wp-con...-dtwn-16-9.jpg

homebucket Jul 25, 2021 3:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9349414)
If it's not a tourist trap, why don't they use modern vehicles with much greater capacity like everywhere else in the world
In North America, Toronto has a streetcar network that's several magnitudes larger and all vehicles are climate control, modern, high capacity and high frequency
You mean... like dis?

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b234f16b_b.jpg

https://64.media.tumblr.com/79cd71dd...lg7o1_1280.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n1BN_63AtVE/maxresdefault.jpg

Pedestrian Jul 25, 2021 6:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9349283)
Didn't ride them but the streetcars are pretty cool piece of history. Just about every city had them at one point but SF kept it real.
SF actually bought most of its fleet from other cities keeping it "less real". That's why they use the logos of all those different cities on the cars. I loved spying one from DC Transit--I rode those all the time as kid (but unfortunately, the ones to the dentist were the most memorable).

And before they put them into service, they had them all completely refurbished. They were like new when SF first got them. You can see the whole fleet in its original livery here: https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/

But there were still places that could refurbish the streetcars under contract. SF for decades has had to have its own cable car workshop where they repair the fleet and occasionally resurrect one that seemed beyond repair. Somewhere they seem to have a stash of old broken down ones.

Pedestrian Jul 25, 2021 6:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9349414)
If it's not a tourist trap, why don't they use modern vehicles with much greater capacity like everywhere else in the world
Why doesn't NY demolish the Empire State Building and put a modern skyscraper in its place?

What a stupid question. The cable cars and old PCC streetcars are wonderful relics and great fun and the city loves them. But the streetcars in particular run on only one line on the surface with a subway using modern light rail vehicles as homebucket posted below. So you have your choice: Ride a piece of history on the surface and enjoy life, or take the subway below and get where you're going fast.

I almost always ride the streetcars. You should come ride this one:

Quote:
https://www.streetcar.org/wp-content...x/560-1074.png

No.1074
Toronto, Canada
Built 1946 • Operational • Tribute livery
This car is painted to honor Toronto, which ran PCC streetcars in regular service from 1938 until 1995. Toronto boasted the largest fleet of PCCs in North America: 745 cars.
Nowhere on the continent have streetcars had such continuing success, with routes running all over Canada’s largest city to this day. When the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) ordered its first PCCs in 1938, the city was already well served by a large fleet of all-steel Peter Witt style streetcars (some of which remained in active service until 1963), but needed more streetcars to meet growing demand. St. Louis Car Company shipped PCC body shells and trucks north for assembly by Canadian Car and Foundry. This became standard practice for Toronto’s ongoing purchases of new PCCs.
But the Canadian city was also a prolific buyer of used PCCs, picking up cars after World War II from Cincinnati, Cleveland (including the PCCs originally built for Louisville), Birmingham, and Kansas City.
The opening of heavy-rail subways decreased the PCC fleet in the late 1960s, and Toronto began replacing its beloved ‘Red Rockets’ in the late 1970s with Canadian Light Rail Vehicles (CRLVs), which themselves are in the process of being replaced by yet another generation of Canadian streetcar.
Muni’s Historic Trolley Festivals in the 1980s partly inspired the renovation of 19 PCCs for the new Harbourfront line that opened in 1990, but these were replaced by CLRVs just five years later, leaving only two PCCs in Toronto for charter service (along with one Peter Witt).
In the 1970s Muni acquired 11 ex-Toronto PCCs (originally from Kansas City) for brief service in San Francisco. They essentially kept this same maroon and cream paint scheme, with Muni’s ‘cable car ribbon’ logo replacing the ‘TTC’ logo. Now, this handsome “Red Rocket” livery is back on San Francisco’s streets to stay.
https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars...oronto-canada/

But to get this back on-topic, the LRVs were among the things suspended during "lockdown" and the service is slowly being resumed. Muni claims they lost so much revenue and trained operators they can't get everything back up and running yet, so that's why I'm so glad to see the cable cars.

iheartthed Jul 25, 2021 3:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9349414)
If it's not a tourist trap, why don't they use modern vehicles with much greater capacity like everywhere else in the world
In North America, Toronto has a streetcar network that's several magnitudes larger and all vehicles are climate control, modern, high capacity and high frequency
He posted a picture of the cable cars, which is a different system from the street cars in SF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9349221)
They're not a "tourist trap" at all. If I'm going where they go such as down to the Embarcadero, I love riding them. There were, before covid, and I assume will be again, 3 operational lines. The Powell St lines tend to be dominated by tourists but the one I photographed is the California St line which few of the tourists seem to know about and whose riders are largely locals.

Every time I've ever walked past the Powell Street cable car terminus, there has always been a line packed with tourists. The one time I actually rode it I'm pretty sure that, like me, everyone on it was from out of town. And at $6/ride, this isn't exactly a cost effective way to get from point A to point B.

Nite Jul 25, 2021 6:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9349487)
Why doesn't NY demolish the Empire State Building and put a modern skyscraper in its place?

What a stupid question. The cable cars and old PCC streetcars are wonderful relics and great fun and the city loves them. But the streetcars in particular run on only one line on the surface with a subway using modern light rail vehicles as homebucket posted below. So you have your choice: Ride a piece of history on the surface and enjoy life, or take the subway below and get where you're going fast.

I almost always ride the streetcars. You should come ride this one:


https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars...oronto-canada/

But to get this back on-topic, the LRVs were among the things suspended during "lockdown" and the service is slowly being resumed. Muni claims they lost so much revenue and trained operators they can't get everything back up and running yet, so that's why I'm so glad to see the cable cars.
well it's good to see SF has modern rolling stock. But they should modernize the entire system. How is the historic vehicle for people with disabilities? Modern streetcars/trams and much better for the public for accessibility and comfort than older ones. San Francesco should get rid of the tourist trap for an update the entire system.

Pedestrian Jul 25, 2021 6:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9349573)
He posted a picture of the cable cars, which is a different system from the street cars in SF.
Every time I've ever walked past the Powell Street cable car terminus, there has always been a line packed with tourists. The one time I actually rode it I'm pretty sure that, like me, everyone on it was from out of town. And at $6/ride, this isn't exactly a cost effective way to get from point A to point B.
Except it isn't $6/ride if you have a monthly transit pass like many locals do. The cable cars are definitely a money raiser from the tourists who buy one ride at a time but that's fine with city residents.

Pedestrian Jul 25, 2021 6:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9349633)
well it's good to see SF has modern rolling stock. But they should modernize the entire system. How is the historic vehicle for people with disabilities? Modern streetcars/trams and much better for the public for accessibility and comfort than older ones. San Francesco should get rid of the tourist trap for an update the entire system.
Just stay in Toronto. You'll be much happier there. San Francisco values its history and enjoys it. What's the point of life without enjoyment?

craigs Jul 25, 2021 7:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nite (Post 9349633)
well it's good to see SF has modern rolling stock.
You've been on this forum for 14 years and are only now discovering this?

Quote:
But they should modernize the entire system. How is the historic vehicle for people with disabilities? Modern streetcars/trams and much better for the public for accessibility and comfort than older ones. San Francesco should get rid of the tourist trap for an update the entire system.
No, the historic cable cars--a rolling part of San Francisco history--should and shall remain a part of the city's transit mix. In addition to cable cars, San Francisco also has buses, electric trolley buses, modern light rail streetcars, historic streetcars, commuter rail, and heavy rail metro.

Camelback Jul 25, 2021 11:02 PM
Wasn't SF's cable cars a totally different system from what we now know as street cars?

Something like a cable pulling them from underneath due to the hilly terrain of the city and not electrified?

craigs Jul 25, 2021 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9349876)
Wasn't SF's cable cars a totally different system from what we now know as street cars?

Something like a cable pulling them from underneath due to the hilly terrain of the city and not electrified?
Correct, "cable cars" are pulled by a cable under the street, and correct that they are in that way entirely different from the city's other train systems--SF's light rail streetcars, historic streetcars, and heavy rail metro are all electrified, and the commuter rail trains are currently diesel but are undergoing electrification.

Camelback Jul 25, 2021 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9349897)
Correct, "cable cars" are pulled by a cable under the street, and correct that they are in that way entirely different from the city's other train systems--SF's light rail streetcars, historic streetcars, and heavy rail metro are all electrified, and the commuter rail trains are currently diesel but are undergoing electrification.
Ok cool, that's what I thought. I was going off memory from a tour I took in SF years ago.

Maybe your explanation will help Nite realize why SF hasn't "gotten rid of" cable cars for modern day street cars.

Stan31 Jul 26, 2021 12:12 AM
My impression has been that life became more neighborhood centric in NYC, people spend more time in their respective neighborhoods due to widespread work-from-home situations. Midtown is still looking a bit deserted compared to what it was two years ago, but nothing too extreme, there's just no reason to go there now for many people.

SIGSEGV Jul 26, 2021 12:33 AM
Walked by Sundays on State today (how could I not, it's half a block from where I live) and it seemed nice and lively, though not sufficatingly crowded.

JManc Jul 26, 2021 1:02 AM
The Powell Street 'turnaround' is pretty cool. Spent about 2 hours just watching 2 guys manually rotating 5 ton cable cars.

Pedestrian Jul 26, 2021 1:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9349897)
Correct, "cable cars" are pulled by a cable under the street, and correct that they are in that way entirely different from the city's other train systems--SF's light rail streetcars, historic streetcars, and heavy rail metro are all electrified, and the commuter rail trains are currently diesel but are undergoing electrification.
And a lot of the busses are electric too. The city owns a hydropower dam in the Sierra Nevada Mountains and although it has to pay to transport the electricity from dam to city, it still means a lot of its electric power for street lights and transit is awfully cheap.

O'Shaughnessy Dam (San Francisco's city-owned power source)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hnessy_Dam.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...hnessy_Dam.jpg


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