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CTA Gray Line Oct 15, 2011 7:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5445156)
^^^^The green line could use several more stops on the near south side like it used to have hopefully we'll see one at maybe 18th and say 31st or so. It could really help with developing the area I think.

Also eventually bring back 63rd all the way to stony or at least the 63rd Metra. Tie it in with the gray line or whatever it would be great.


Or right I am on the green line cool aid right now.....also extend it out to midway it'd be about 4 miles or so....how much could that be :)

In 1996 that is exactly what I had proposed for 63rd & Dorchester (see pages 7 & 8): http://www.box.net/shared/jqvpx489un

Obviously no one listened; now they'd need millions to rebuild it.

M II A II R II K Oct 15, 2011 4:02 PM

Mayor Mandates Public Transit for City Employees


Read More: http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward...131391738.html

Quote:

.....

Under new travel mileage and reimbursement policies outlined Saturday, those who work for city government are required to use Chicago Transit Authority buses and trains as their main mode of transportation once they've clocked in. If that's not feasible due to location, timing or security reasons, the employee will have to provide reasoning on reimbursement forms. The policy was crafted after Emanuel ordered City Comptroller Amer Ahmad to conduct a thorough review of past mileage and travel practices to increase accountability and efficiency across city government, a release from the mayor's office said.

- In his report, Ahmad said he identified several systemic weaknesses including unsupported or limited support for reimbursements, inadequate management review and follow up, unclear monitoring and audit controls, and questionable or inconsistent usage of other local transportation modes, the release said. Ahmad found instances of employees being reimbursed for car washes, transportation to jury duty, parking tickets, excessive parking costs and even late fees on personal credit cards, the release said.

- "Across the board we found inconsistency in the policies and enforcement in our departments and sister agencies,” Ahmad said. "This new policy provides the necessary structure to ensure that city travel is efficient and above all an appropriate use of city resources."

.....

J_M_Tungsten Oct 15, 2011 6:22 PM

Umm why would you post that in a Chicago transit thread?

denizen467 Oct 15, 2011 9:35 PM

Unfortunately, a Cermak station will probably push the priority way down for a stop in the 18th Street area. Might need another boom or two before enough dense South Loop development reaches down to 18th, 19th, Cullerton.

But the future of the Cermak area looks great - the thing that surprised me the most was that the demolition of CHA towers along State between Cermak and 25th was way more comprehensive than originally planned. I think there was an announcement just a few years ago that one building would remain, but I'm pretty sure now virtually everything has been razed. That leaves 3 completely empty blocks along State Street. In fact, there's so much developable land around there you could almost see the outline of a McCormick Place 5 starting to form, straddling State and/or Wabash ... although south of the South Building would be the more likely spot.

Along with Lexington Park and the revitalization of Motor Row, the Cermak Station will help integrate that whole area nicely with downtown.

Also, how are the line crossovers structured between 14th and 18th -- would it ever be possible to run an O'Hare-McCormick shuttle from Blue - Block 37 - Red - Green ?

the urban politician Oct 15, 2011 9:48 PM

^ Problem is, there is so much unsold inventory in the south loop, and so much developable land, one wonders when, if even in our lifetimes, prices will reach a point to actually justify significantly dense development around the new Cermak-Green Line stop.

CTA Gray Line Oct 16, 2011 5:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5445812)
Unfortunately, a Cermak station will probably push the priority way down for a stop in the 18th Street area. Might need another boom or two before enough dense South Loop development reaches down to 18th, 19th, Cullerton.

But the future of the Cermak area looks great - the thing that surprised me the most was that the demolition of CHA towers along State between Cermak and 25th was way more comprehensive than originally planned. I think there was an announcement just a few years ago that one building would remain, but I'm pretty sure now virtually everything has been razed. That leaves 3 completely empty blocks along State Street. In fact, there's so much developable land around there you could almost see the outline of a McCormick Place 5 starting to form, straddling State and/or Wabash ... although south of the South Building would be the more likely spot.

Along with Lexington Park and the revitalization of Motor Row, the Cermak Station will help integrate that whole area nicely with downtown.

Also, how are the line crossovers structured between 14th and 18th -- would it ever be possible to run an O'Hare-McCormick shuttle from Blue - Block 37 - Red - Green ?

I think a new Station on the Green Line to serve the population in the immediate area is a great idea worthy of Funding; but as far as serving McCormick Place - McCormick already HAS a Train Station directly attached to it (like the Merchandise Mart and Thompson Center), the Metra Electric District 23rd St. Station: http://community-2.webtv.net/GLRT2/McCormickPlace23rd/

But in the interest of the ongoing inter-agency "it's-my-ball-and-you-can't-play-with-it" adventure - that possibility is ignored (for now - wait until Sen. Durbin's Study).

jpIllInoIs Oct 16, 2011 1:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5445156)
^^^^The green line could use several more stops on the near south side like it used to have hopefully we'll see one at maybe 18th and say 31st or so. It could really help with developing the area I think.

Also eventually bring back 63rd all the way to stony or at least the 63rd Metra. Tie it in with the gray line or whatever it would be great.

Or right I am on the green line cool aid right now.....also extend it out to midway it'd be about 4 miles or so....how much could that be :)

Lawfin, you hit on one of my favorite CTA extension daydreams. Green Line to Midway. The row along 63rd is intact until Damen, then may need to be a subway until it meets the ROW just east of Cicero. A quick google earth shows that the area is still densely packed with residential and there employment centers are scattered along the route. Plus it would end at Midway.

nicksplace27 Oct 16, 2011 5:56 PM

Express Bus Services OKd on I-90


Read More: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...ews/710129679/

This doesn't look half bad. Can that I-90 corridor evolve into something more than just an auto sewer? If you want to see cool BRT on a suburban highway, check out the I-35 bus service in Minnesota. I hope shaumburg is as forward thinking as Bloomington is.

ardecila Oct 16, 2011 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5445812)
Along with Lexington Park and the revitalization of Motor Row, the Cermak Station will help integrate that whole area nicely with downtown.

Also, how are the line crossovers structured between 14th and 18th -- would it ever be possible to run an O'Hare-McCormick shuttle from Blue - Block 37 - Red - Green ?

Yes, it's technically possible (assuming they find the big money to finish B37) but the 5-block walk to McCormick Place is probably a deal killer.

On the contrary, I think the Cermak station will be a catalyst for the redevelopment of that neighborhood. Motor Row is an intact coherent pedestrian streetscape. It gives that south-of-Cermak neighborhood a "center" that most redeveloping areas simply don't have.

Man, I wish 6-9 story midrises were feasible in Chicago...

ardecila Oct 16, 2011 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs (Post 5446188)
Lawfin, you hit on one of my favorite CTA extension daydreams. Green Line to Midway. The row along 63rd is intact until Damen, then may need to be a subway until it meets the ROW just east of Cicero. A quick google earth shows that the area is still densely packed with residential and there employment centers are scattered along the route. Plus it would end at Midway.

Actually, this was in the planning stages under Daley I. White ethnics east of Kedzie protested, afraid to give their neighborhood such a strong link into the black ghetto. That's why it was cut off at Ashland (the Ashland station is in a kitschy 60s Googie style, the only remnant of that project)

k1052 Oct 16, 2011 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs (Post 5446188)
Lawfin, you hit on one of my favorite CTA extension daydreams. Green Line to Midway. The row along 63rd is intact until Damen, then may need to be a subway until it meets the ROW just east of Cicero. A quick google earth shows that the area is still densely packed with residential and there employment centers are scattered along the route. Plus it would end at Midway.

Even a relatively simple extension to Kedzie (assuming stops added at Western and Kedzie) would probably do wonders for the Green Line's ridership figures.

denizen467 Oct 17, 2011 7:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5446475)
Yes, it's technically possible (assuming they find the big money to finish B37) but the 5-block walk to McCormick Place is probably a deal killer.

It's just over 2 blocks to the doorstep of the West building, which at least is protection from the elements. Beyond that, yeah, indoors it's another couple blocks' worth if the destination is Hyatt or any of the other buildings. If the developable sites along Cermak are eventually built out, there could be an indoor connection even closer to the el station. Setting aside the airport connection, this new station will also be useful for the hundreds (presumably often thousands) of support staff working at McCormick. (Do they mostly use buses and the Red Line now?)

I was stunned a couple weeks ago when you wrote about the Red-to-B37 crossover never having been built. (What on earth were they doing along the Red platforms for so long?) What is a "bellmouth" structure?

denizen467 Oct 17, 2011 7:48 AM

Has anyone ever seen photographs of whatever rail facilities were eventually built underneath Block 37 ? A fortune was spent on that project and I feel we know less about it than NORAD, or Cheney's "undisclosed location." Also, is there provisioning for escalator access in the bottom level of the shopping mall - if so, where?

nicksplace27 Oct 17, 2011 4:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5446879)
Has anyone ever seen photographs of whatever rail facilities were eventually built underneath Block 37 ? A fortune was spent on that project and I feel we know less about it than NORAD, or Cheney's "undisclosed location." Also, is there provisioning for escalator access in the bottom level of the shopping mall - if so, where?

I would think it's right in the center of the Pedway area around the atrium. All that cordoned off white space space can't be just retail.

Daley did do a really good job locking it up. It's gonna take a few years before the CTA can use it again because by then it will become a long lost transit project; not a recent boondoggle that bankrupted the city and took away thousands of pensions.

Mr Downtown Oct 17, 2011 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawfin (Post 5443870)
This blog post [puts the lie] to Mr Downtown's. . . claim that highways are self-funded via user fees....ie gas tax.


As we’ve discussed before, there are lots of flows between levels of government that make it impossible to look at a single budget to determine whether highways pay for themselves. The average person actually has no easy way of determining who pays for a particular stretch of roadway.

Table HF-10 of Highway Statistics 2005 (Bureau of Transportation Statistics) is a nationwide summary of highway receipts and disbursements—covering all highways and local streets—which balanced out at $154,690 million each in 2005. It's true that $39,214 million of the receipts shown are from non-user general revenues, but motorists in turn sent at least $59,543 million of user fees the other direction, to non-highway and mass transit uses.

So highway users fall 25 percent short of paying the total direct cost of highways and streets—but remember that this is looking at all streets, even local streets that existed long before there were motorists to pay fuel taxes. In the 20 years I have been studying this issue, the shortfall has been as low as 15 percent, but fear of the words “tax hike” has prevented Congress from raising fuel taxes to keep up with inflation since the early 90s. They’ve been dipping into the general fund to allow them to still attend ribbon-cuttings without facing attack ads at reelection time. Certainly a lot of the 2008-2009 use of general funds was for employment "stimulus" rather than true transportation needs.

Any accounting, of course, has to make decisions about where income and expenditures are properly allocated. Given the history of the highway network (the Interstate system was a political nonstarter until Congress agreed to pay for it with fuel taxes on motorists only), I think it's still proper to say that motorists pay the entire cost of the numbered highway system, and about half the cost of local side streets.

ardecila Oct 17, 2011 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denizen467 (Post 5446878)
It's just over 2 blocks to the doorstep of the West building, which at least is protection from the elements. Beyond that, yeah, indoors it's another couple blocks' worth if the destination is Hyatt or any of the other buildings. If the developable sites along Cermak are eventually built out, there could be an indoor connection even closer to the el station. Setting aside the airport connection, this new station will also be useful for the hundreds (presumably often thousands) of support staff working at McCormick. (Do they mostly use buses and the Red Line now?)

I was stunned a couple weeks ago when you wrote about the Red-to-B37 crossover never having been built. (What on earth were they doing along the Red platforms for so long?) What is a "bellmouth" structure?

This is a bellmouth structure.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4133/...1eb944d0ba.jpg
source

Basically, when one subway track splits off from another, you need to build a wedge-shaped space underground (in a floorplan, it looks like a bell, hence 'bellmouth'). It must be large enough that when you reach the end of it, there's enough clearance for two tunnels to exist side-by-side. This can't be bored like a typical tunnel, so you usually need to blast or dig it out manually and then put in steel or concrete to hold up the walls and ceiling of the space. There are various ways to do this, but it becomes vastly more complicated when you're working around an active subway tunnel.

I thought that they never built the bellmouth at Block 37. The reality is more complicated. From what I can tell, the bellmouths are half-built. The floor and ceiling (technical terms are "invert" and "diaphragm", respectively) were poured, but they never built finished walls for the bellmouth space or broke through the existing 1940s tunnel walls.

So, in order to complete the tunnel connection, they would need to break through the tunnel wall and then install the new tracks, power supply, and signal systems. Additionally, they would need to finish work inside the existing subway tunnels - cutting through platforms and removing columns to allow the far-side track to cross over. With extraordinary cost control, you could probably finish the work for $45 million. That's not including the work required to actually build out a new station in Block 37, which would probably add another $15 million.

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4...bornstconn.jpg

CTA Gray Line Oct 18, 2011 6:52 AM

Metra Proposed 2012 Budget Public Hearing Schedule pdf
 
http://metrarail.com/content/dam/met...20Schedule.pdf

lawfin Oct 18, 2011 6:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5447221)
As we’ve discussed before, there are lots of flows between levels of government that make it impossible to look at a single budget to determine whether highways pay for themselves. The average person actually has no easy way of determining who pays for a particular stretch of roadway.

Table HF-10 of Highway Statistics 2005 (Bureau of Transportation Statistics) is a nationwide summary of highway receipts and disbursements—covering all highways and local streets—which balanced out at $154,690 million each in 2005. It's true that $39,214 million of the receipts shown are from non-user general revenues, but motorists in turn sent at least $59,543 million of user fees the other direction, to non-highway and mass transit uses.

So highway users fall 25 percent short of paying the total direct cost of highways and streets—but remember that this is looking at all streets, even local streets that existed long before there were motorists to pay fuel taxes. In the 20 years I have been studying this issue, the shortfall has been as low as 15 percent, but fear of the words “tax hike” has prevented Congress from raising fuel taxes to keep up with inflation since the early 90s. They’ve been dipping into the general fund to allow them to still attend ribbon-cuttings without facing attack ads at reelection time. Certainly a lot of the 2008-2009 use of general funds was for employment "stimulus" rather than true transportation needs.

Any accounting, of course, has to make decisions about where income and expenditures are properly allocated. Given the history of the highway network (the Interstate system was a political nonstarter until Congress agreed to pay for it with fuel taxes on motorists only), I think it's still proper to say that motorists pay the entire cost of the numbered highway system, and about half the cost of local side streets.

Do you always misquote and additionally attempt to diminish said quote by editorializing that it is merely a "blog post" yet fail to mention that in fact the post was simply reporting on the release of a GAO report that indicates that roads are not self-funded and the attached graphic also soured from GAO that indicates the same.

Data does matter

Mr Downtown Oct 18, 2011 11:29 PM

^But that's not what the GAO report actually says. Reading comprehension does matter.

lawfin Oct 18, 2011 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 5448714)
^But that's not what the GAO report actually says. Reading comprehension does matter.

Indeed, it does. Perhaps you should try it.

Here I will quote, not misquote, as seems to be your MO, directly from the GAO report:

"Federal funding for highways is provided to the states mostly through a series of grant programs known as the Federal-Aid Highway Program,
administered by the Department of Transportation’s (DOT) Federal Highway Administration (FHWA). In 2005, the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA-LU) authorized $197.5 billion for the Federal-Aid Highway Program for fiscal years 2005 through 2009. The program operates on a “user pay” system, wherein users contribute to the Highway Trust Fund through fuel taxes and other fees......

.....
From 2005 to 2009, every state received more funding for highway programs
than they contributed to the Highway Account of the Highway Trust Fund. This was possible because more funding was authorized and apportioned than was collected from the states, and the fund was augmented with about $30 billion in general revenues since fiscal year 2008.........

..........The infusion of general revenues into the Highway Trust Fund affects the relationship between funding and contributions, as a significant amount of
highway funding is no longer provided by highway users.
Additionally, using rate of return as a major factor in determining highway funding poses challenges related to performance and accountability in the highway program; in effect, rateof-return calculations override other considerations to yield a largely predetermined outcome—that of returning revenues to their state of origin. Because of these and other challenges, funding surface transportation programs remains on GAO’s High-Risk list......

............... Our analysis of the entire 5-year period of SAFETEA-LU shows that every state was a donee state, receiving more funding for highway programs than their users contributed to the Highway Account (see fig. 3). Funding received for each dollar contributed ranged from about $1.03 for Texas to about $5.85 for the District of Columbia. Every state was a donee state during the 5-year SAFETEA-LU period because overall, more funding was authorized and apportioned than was collected from highway users, since the account was supplemented by general funds from Treasury. "


Read & comprehend that. I know you can if you try.


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