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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

ardecila Mar 31, 2009 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abner (Post 4168742)
oops, this is obviously in response to two posts up.

How exactly would one make traveling to the West Loop easier? The Monroe subway, I guess, but the thing is you would still have to transfer downtown no matter what. It sounds like your main complaint is having to transfer downtown to get from one place to another, and that isn't changing anytime soon.

Chicago is really big and there are a whole lot of possible trips. Without a subway system as complete as the bus system, how would you expect a trip between two neighborhoods without a direct train link not to take a long time? Most places in the city have much, much worse transit access than Lakeview and the West Loop.

TUP, taking the bus from the Loop to the West Loop is ridiculously easy, the buses come constantly, and the ride is really short. I don't like buses either, but for connecting two areas that close, complaining about having to take the bus is just whining.

That said, I shouldn't need to tell you that the Clinton Subway is needed because the center of office space in Chicago is shifting westward. Nearly all of the new office buildings built in the last 5 or 6 years have been closer to Clinton than State. The West Loop Gate area between the Kennedy and the river is poised to capture nearly ALL new office growth downtown for the foreseeable future, with its large expanses of parking lots and unimpressive 2-3 story buildings (although there are a few diamonds in the rough).

If a majority of commuters are going to the West Loop, they should have a direct route from the North Side that serves them. Transfers are for trips that are uncommon.

arenn Mar 31, 2009 3:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs (Post 4168307)
Well youre ideas on the Western and Cicero BRT and other E/W BRT are sound. All in all an enjoyable read with some well founded concepts. thanks

Thank you.

Mr Downtown Mar 31, 2009 4:02 AM

And I don't know what will satisfy someone who whines that it takes 25 minutes to get downtown on the Brown Line.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nr3iwx.jpg
"LBJ 200" painting (1965) by Alex S. Tremulis

VivaLFuego Mar 31, 2009 4:45 AM

The 8's really not that bad, and serves the hearts of Lincoln Park and Lakeview. If you're way out near Addison/Lincoln... well OK, take the 9/X9 to the Green Line to Clinton (or, soon, to Morgan). Also quick and non-circuitous.

pip Mar 31, 2009 5:13 AM

^ I used to avoid the number 8 Bus even though it is 100 feet from my door if I wanted to visit a friend in the West Loop or UIC area. I could wait forever for a bus to appear. Now I take it all the time. It works now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4168594)
^ Didn't you get the memo?

Buses SUCK. They are a shitty way to get around any major city, and I"m pretty sure from the horror stories I've heard that Chicago is no exception.

Why not increase rail options in getting around town?

Yup I would rather have rail but you haven't been on the busses lately. I used to think the same thing unless it was an express bus. They are now very reliable and it is just about door to door service. I take them all the time now. The CTA, both bus and trains has improved greatly.

I am not just some booster to be one. I was one to think murder waiting for a bus, 'wtf is that damn bus, I hate the CTA'. How things have changed.

Abner Mar 31, 2009 6:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 4168790)
That said, I shouldn't need to tell you that the Clinton Subway is needed because the center of office space in Chicago is shifting westward. Nearly all of the new office buildings built in the last 5 or 6 years have been closer to Clinton than State. The West Loop Gate area between the Kennedy and the river is poised to capture nearly ALL new office growth downtown for the foreseeable future, with its large expanses of parking lots and unimpressive 2-3 story buildings (although there are a few diamonds in the rough).

If a majority of commuters are going to the West Loop, they should have a direct route from the North Side that serves them. Transfers are for trips that are uncommon.

Sure, you can make a case that those are among the most important future transit projects, and I wouldn't disagree (not strongly anyway, without knowing more). I was just saying that the current situation is not as bad as ChicagoChicago was making it out to be. It's not hard to commute from the north lakefront to the West Loop.

That's not to say it wouldn't be worth making it easier. I'm sure a Clinton subway would be well-used if it were connected to everything else adequately, including the Carroll transit line. I'd like to hear more about the routing of a Clinton subway though. Why does it apparently cross the river at 18th St.? There's nothing down there. Why not cross farther north, like around Roosevelt? If the Red Line is rerouted to Clinton, what's going to use the State subway?

ChicagoChicago Mar 31, 2009 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4168835)
And I don't know what will satisfy someone who whines that it takes 25 minutes to get downtown on the Brown Line.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nr3iwx.jpg
"LBJ 200" painting (1965) by Alex S. Tremulis

Did I complain about the brown line trip? No. I complained about the West Loop accessibility. Get a clue.

aaron38 Mar 31, 2009 2:07 PM

Has there ever been a study on extending the Brown Line down Lawrence to the Blue Line at Jefferson Park? It's only 2 miles and would create a far north east-west link in the system that gives the North side much faster access to O'Hare and a very convinient link from the UP-NW Metra to Linconln Park.

For the proposed Clinton Ave subway, it seems to me it should route south to the Orange line. What if the Orange was then rerouted through the Clinton subway up to North/Clybourn? That would really improve access to Midway. The Loop would keep access because everyone could board the Blue at Dearborn and transfer.

Busy Bee Mar 31, 2009 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 4168835)
And I don't know what will satisfy someone who whines that it takes 25 minutes to get downtown on the Brown Line.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nr3iwx.jpg
"LBJ 200" painting (1965) by Alex S. Tremulis

YES!!! Build it!

orulz Mar 31, 2009 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abner (Post 4169057)
That's not to say it wouldn't be worth making it easier. I'm sure a Clinton subway would be well-used if it were connected to everything else adequately, including the Carroll transit line. I'd like to hear more about the routing of a Clinton subway though. Why does it apparently cross the river at 18th St.? There's nothing down there. Why not cross farther north, like around Roosevelt? If the Red Line is rerouted to Clinton, what's going to use the State subway?

The Circle Line would use the State Street subway, I think. Maybe brown/purple/red would all be shuffled around too.

Discussing the Central Area Action Plan:
They seem to envision using one of the existing railroad bridges at 16th street (SCAL? B&O?) to bring the Clinton Subway across the river. That would probably be cheaper than building a new tunnel under the river. Thankfully absent from that plan is any talk of turning the St Charles Air Line into a bikeway, so I think the Clinton subway should, rather than rejoining the old Red Line route on the Dan Ryan, continue along the SCAL/CN at least as far as McCormick Place (perhaps farther), with transfer stations to other lines at 16th/Clark and 16th/Wabash.

However, as you mention, good connections are essential to making the Clinton Subway work, and the Central Area Action Plan seems to call for just two west loop stations (Monroe and Congress) which IMO isn't enough. A third station at Lake Street would be needed, too, to connect with the Green line, the Carroll Transitway, and maybe even a second link to an infill station on the Blue Line.

Anyway, I have a feeling that all of these plans are really just fantasy. The cost estimates are probably all lowballs, and even so it would be tough or impossible to dig up 13 billion exclusively for transportation in central Chicago by 2020.

the urban politician Mar 31, 2009 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 4168736)
That's complete BS TUP. I don't know how much experience you have with it, but I find the bus system in Chicago to be much faster than the train in most cases if you know what you are doing, especially now that you can see when the next bus is coming on Bustracker.

I'm sorry but who in their right mind takes the Red Line downtown when there is a plethora of wonderful express buses down LSD. The only reason I ever take the El is inclimate weather or rush hour, both of which make the certainty of using Buses go down.

In fact, the best way to get to the west loop from Lakeview is simple if you are going between 6am and 9am and coming back between 3:30pm and 6:30pm on a weekday. The 134, 135, and 136 buses go express from Arlington, Belmont, and Irving Park to Columbus and Wacker and end up on Franklin. These buses are extremely conveinent and take less than 15 min in some cases... When traveling during off-peak hours, simply take the 146 from Belmont express to Michigan and transfer to any Westbound bus through the loop, that will get you there in less than 30 min every time...

If you know how to use the bus in this city you can get from anywhere on the northside to anywhere within about 3 miles of the loop in less than 30 min, you just have to be smart...

^ That's cool. My experience in New York has been horrid when it comes to buses. I hate buses and will not ride them. I guess I"m a train snob

schwerve Mar 31, 2009 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 4169261)
Thankfully absent from that plan is any talk of turning the St Charles Air Line into a bikeway

its in there

orulz Mar 31, 2009 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schwerve (Post 4169315)
its in there

Whoops, you're right. As a matter of fact it seems like it was intentionally removed or unintentionally omitted from the "Near South Projects" page (page 4-54) of the "South Subdistricts" document - notice how item #2 is missing?

Nowhereman1280 Mar 31, 2009 5:29 PM

Here is a sun-times article further explaining the infrastructure plan that was published the other day.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/150...tion31.article

They also make reference of building parks over the top of Kennedy between Lake and Washington.

I think they should do it the whole way, it would be relatively cheep (road is already below grade) and would radically increase property values in the area just like Millennium Park did on the east side of the loop. It would also do wonders in the fact that it would permanently reconnect the West Loop with downtown after it was cut off when the freeway was built.

God I love that plan, I hope it all gets built. The Sun-Times says that 13.5 billion over 12 years isn't much higher than our normal capital improvements budget, lets hope that's the case and that most of these projects get completed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4169273)
^ That's cool. My experience in New York has been horrid when it comes to buses. I hate buses and will not ride them. I guess I"m a train snob

Next time you are in Chicago, try using some buses, for whatever reason, they are super effective on our grid system. Check out the the bustracker website, it saves ton of time because you don't spend any extra time waiting on the street. My building now has a computer screen in the lobby that constantly displays bustracker: ctabustracker.com

bnk Mar 31, 2009 6:08 PM

http://www.wbbm780.com/City-Plans--1...ojects/4117385

City Plans $15.5B In Downtown Projects


CHICAGO (STNG) -- A draft of Chicago's plans for the city's central area through 2020 calls for $15.5 billion in public works, mostly for transportation improvements, and asserts the projects are attainable with or without the 2016 Olympics.

The projects include a West Loop transit hub beneath Clinton Street with an estimated price tag of almost $6 billion. The hub would connect Metra and CTA rail and bus lines with a proposed Carroll Street rail line, itself a $260 million item, near the north bank of the Chicago River.

Other big-ticket items include $1.5 billion for CTA express train service to the airports and a $500 million for a landscaped roof over the Kennedy Expy. from Monroe to Washington around which new office buildings could be added. A $377 million plan foresees moving part of Lake Shore Drive east from Navy Pier to the Oak Street curve, creating space for bike and pedestrian paths.

The city's share of the total $15.5 billion cost should be in the range of $6 billion to $8 billion, the report said. Most of the money would come from tax-increment financing, a property tax source that diverts money from regular government expenses. The rest would have to be drawn from state and federal aid or corporate deals, it said.

The authors, principally officials with city planning agencies or consultants working for them, said the proposed expenses aren't out of line with recent budgets for capital projects.

Called the Chicago Central Area Action Plan, the draft has been posted on the Web site of the city's Zoning and Land Use Planning Department. Its appearance this year observes the centennial of Daniel Burnham's 1909 Plan of Chicago.

VivaLFuego Mar 31, 2009 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 4169470)
The Sun-Times says that 13.5 billion over 12 years isn't much higher than our normal capital improvements budget, lets hope that's the case and that most of these projects get completed!

Well, that would mean our "normal" (such as it is) capital improvements budget would have to more than double - which isn't even getting into the fact that the normal budget (....such as it is) is already inadequate to maintain existing infrastructure in an acceptably modern and efficient state. The existing budget is, for the most part already fully programmed 5+ years out, which again, is already deferring necessary maintenance projects. I mean, c'mon, the city started on the subway station renovations 10 years ago, and look how many more there are left to do.

Quote:

My building now has a computer screen in the lobby that constantly displays bustracker: ctabustracker.com
That's neat. Was that just someone in the building taking initiative to set that up, or was there push/cooperation with CTA, local alderman, etc?

ChicagoChicago Mar 31, 2009 6:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 4169273)
^ That's cool. My experience in New York has been horrid when it comes to buses. I hate buses and will not ride them. I guess I"m a train snob

You aren’t the only one. Buses in Chicago aren’t horrendous, but let’s just say they cater to a little seedier clientele.

VivaLFuego Mar 31, 2009 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoChicago (Post 4169636)
You aren’t the only one. Buses in Chicago aren’t horrendous, but let’s just say they cater to a little seedier clientele.

Yeah, the 156, 134 et al are real shady :rolleyes:

lawfin Mar 31, 2009 8:24 PM

13.3 billion......or about 1 month in Iraq....hmm

LucasS6 Mar 31, 2009 8:27 PM

Oh no! On a bus with a black guy!


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