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I think it gets murky because of the way the MSAs are defined. No one in their right mind would call Springboro a suburb of Cincinnati, but it gets counted as such due to it being in Warren County in the Cincinnati MSA. Even more weirdly, Greene County (home of the air force base and Dayton's second largest suburb, Beavercreek) is in Cincinnati's ODOT roads district but Montgomery County is in its own roads district. |
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Long story short, there's a reason why the rest of Ohio calls the Queen City "Cincitucky" and why Cincinnati seems to hate everything about Ohio north and east of 275 (King's Island being the lone exception). |
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:haha: Akron/Canton ain’t got no 1.2 million people :haha:
Even Summit County itself (Akron) is probably half Cleveland sprawl suburbs, not Akron’s. |
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Akron the hub of 1.2 M people... and Jacksonville’s skyline is just as impressive as Toronto’s!
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Although the city is nearly dead now, at its industrial peak in the early and mid-20th century the city had ~60-65,000 people, and was an important shipping/manufacturing center. Hopefully, recent efforts to revitalize Chester's Delaware River waterfront, including a new master plan, will keep this old town alive. |
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All the Merrimack Valley mill cities: Lowell, Lawrence, Haverhill, Nashua, Manchester All the Buzzard's Bay and Cape Cod whaling cities: New Bedford, Fall River, Barnstable All the Blackstone Valley and Central Mass mill cities: Worcester, Fitchburg, Leominster |
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I was about to repost the math I did in another tread about the suburbs in the Akron MSA that are Cleveland's, and the ones in the Cleveland MSA that are Akron's, showing how intertwined the two are... but it's not worth it anymore. Yes, Akron = Painesville. Full Stop.
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With the major exception of Galveston, Houston not only lacked any "ring" cities but had essentially no well-developed towns at all nearby until the second half of the 20th century.
-Humble, Rosenburg, Baytown, Richmond, maybe La Porte had like 4 or 5 blocks of main street and a few thousand people each, and those were by far the largest towns in the area. Big enough to at least have a movie theater and high school. -Alief(called "Dairy", hence Dairy-Ashford Rd), Aldine, Stafford, Missouri City, Little York, Almeda, Sugar Land Pearland, Tomball, League City, Spring, etc, would have all been little more than a train depot, a church, a post office, a general store, a filling station, a school, and like a dozen ramshackle little houses full of hard working people. And that's about it. Some named places, like Klein, were more like a rural area identifying itself as a whole community rather than a built up town. Very little of the original footprint of these towns is even noticeable with the exception of Old Town Spring. This would have been true for the above places until like 1965, too. I think this is why even compared to Dallas and Phoenix, Houston's suburbs have so few established centers that aren't a mall, and also why the city doesn't have as many incorporated municpalities in its metro. In contrast, somewhere like Plano and Garland or Scottsdale or Decatur would have all been more built up small towns capable of self-governing and annexing land around them to expand as suburbs in their own right. |
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I wouldn't add Newtown. It's definitely a small town. There are some towns/boroughs though that really are like small cities that I would include that function as "ring cities" to Philadelphia. The problem is, PA's municipalities are so chopped up, their populations are pretty small on paper. Below are the larger "boroughs" or "town centers" surrounding Philadelphia, and the townships that surround them. In most other states, the town centers and townships would be one in the same, and would not be split up into different municipalities. Larger towns surrounding Philadelphia you could count as "Ring Cities": Norristown borough - 34,422 East Norriton township - 14,014 West Norriton township - 15,651 Total Norristown, PA real population - 64,087 Bristol borough - 9,598 Bristol Township - 53,625 Total Bristol, PA real population - 63,223 Conshohocken borough - 8,065 West Conshohocken borough - 1,422 Whitemarsh Township - 18,120 Plymouth Township - 17,570 Total Conshohocken, PA real population - 45,177 Pottstown borough - 22,667 West Pottsgrove Township - 3,876 Upper Pottsgrove Township - 5,739 Lower Pottsgrove Township - 12,112 Total Pottstown, PA real population - 44,394 West Chester borough - 20,048 West Goshen Township - 23,009 Total West Chester, PA real population - 43,057 King of Prussia borough - 19,936 Bridgeport borough - 4,579 Upper Merion Township - 11,120 Total King of Prussia, PA real population - 35,635 Media borough - 5,668 Upper Providence Township - 10,446 Nether Providence Township - 13,743 Total Media, PA real population - 29,857 Doylestown borough - 8,297 Doylestown Township - 17,428 Total Doylestown, PA real population - 25,725 Phoenixville borough - 16,957 Schuylkill Township - 8,641 Total Phoenixville, PA real population - 25,598 In fact, you could even say King of Prussia, Conshohocken, Norristown area is really one city. Their combined populations would be 144,899 in a pretty compact area. |
I think Norristown, West Chester, and Pottstown are perfect examples of Philly ring cities
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Kenosha to downtown Chicago: ~50 miles Kenosha to downtown Milwaukee: ~30 miles But it's all just commuter percentages (and relatively small ones at that) and kenosha has metra commuter rail into downtown Chicago, but only a commuter bus route into downtown Milwaukee. |
Trenton being part of NYC is like saying Akron has 1.2 million people.
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It isn't distance, but transit connections, that determine commuter accessibility. Trenton is on the NEC corridor line, so has better commuter connections to Manhattan than some places a few miles west of Manhattan. This is why you see unbroken sprawl all the way to New Haven, while there are still undeveloped tracts not far from Manhattan, in SI and NJ. |
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However, here is the argument for Mercer County (Trenton) being more closely linked to Philadelphia. There is ABSOLUTELY unbroken sprawl between Philadelphia and Trenton, Hamilton and even Princeton. Mercer County, NJ is a part of the Philadelphia Media Market, not the NYC media market. Mercer County, NJ is also a part of the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission - in case you didn't know, the Delaware Valley is another name for the Greater Philadelphia Area. Philadelphia is also just as connected via Transit to Trenton and Mercer County as NYC is. That same Amtrak line in Princeton and Trenton, also goes into Philadelphia. SEPTA has two transit lines that run into Trenton. Furthermore, the NJ Transit Riverline runs from Trenton down to Camden, and hits all small cities and towns in between. Mercer County also meets commuter numbers to be a part of the Philadelphia CSA, but the numbers are slightly higher to NYC and North Jersey (for obvious reasons) and therefore, goes to NYC. |
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