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Martin Pal Jan 24, 2022 9:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Boebert (Post 9512268)
The operative word here is "tale." Debunked over and over again, but too good a story for gullible media types to give up on.

Larry Harnisch is a true professional and knows this case backward and forward. Pay attention to him and ignore the fables.
Cheers,
Earl
_________________________________________________________________

Larry's fine, but he once put something on his website that I confronted him about and showed was untrue. It was about the Hollywood Canteen neighbors and signage and he was trying to debunk someone else who had stated something true that he said was wrong. I linked accurate photos/sources of what he said wasn't right. The only response I got was to have my post deleted and follow ups ignored. So there's that.

riichkay Jan 24, 2022 9:54 PM

Martin, your experience with Harnisch notwithstanding, I think he has done the most comprehensive work on the Dahlia case....his theory of surgeon Walter Bayley as the killer is as good as any I've seen, it's been endorsed by no less an authority than James Ellroy....Betty Short was basically couch-surfing, Harnisch believes she had nowhere to go after she was dropped off at the Biltmore....there were ties between Short's sister and the Bayley family, and S. Norton Ave.....


"Harnisch found the books for the 3900 block of South Norton Avenue and he worked his way through them until he reached the 1940s. Eventually, he found the owner of the house on 3959 Norton Avenue, the woman on the deed who paid the property taxes—Ruth Bayley. Hurrying to the Times morgue, he searched the clips for Ruth Bayley and what he eventually found shifted his role—from writer to sleuth.


The marriage certificate indicated there was a link between the Short family and South Norton Avenue. From studying the microfilmed Times clips he discovered that Ruth Bayley, who owned the house, had a daughter whose married name was Barbara Lindgren. She was the matron of honor at the wedding of Elizabeth Short’s oldest sister in Inglewood. A story about Ruth Bayley’s husband revealed something even more interesting to Harnisch—Ruth had been married to Walter Bayley, a Los Angeles doctor, a surgeon with the skill to have performed the bisection of Short. And his medical office, where he specialized in performing hysterectomies and mastectomies, was only a few blocks from the Biltmore Hotel. The lead detective on the case, Harry Hansen, told the Grand Jury that he believed that Short’s killer had surgical expertise."


Harnisch believes Short, stranded at the Biltmore, looked up Walter Bayley's office address in the city directory, and walked over the few blocks from the hotel....Bayley at the time was exhibiting increasingly erratic behavior, Harnisch thinks Short may have sent him into a murderous rage....

“If she met him on the pretext of getting help, she would have pulled the sob story about having a son who died. Unlike the other pigeons she was trying to con, he would have actually asked how he died because he was a doctor. So now they both have something in common—dead sons. Maybe he figures out she’s lying, it pissed him off, and he erupts…”


Bayley's former home at 3959 S. Norton Ave. (he was going through a bitter separation from his wife) was one block from the body dump site.....Harnisch thinks Bayley chose the site as a warning to his wife.

Above excerpts are from here....

https://crimereads.com/the-black-dah...les-cold-case/

CaliNative Jan 25, 2022 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Boebert (Post 9512268)
The operative word here is "tale." Debunked over and over again, but too good a story for gullible media types to give up on.

Larry Harnisch is a true professional and knows this case backward and forward. Pay attention to him and ignore the fables.

Cheers,

Earl

You are probably correct. It did get a little (or a lot) over the top and off the rails when Hodel said his dad may also later have been the "Zodiak" killer, and he also alleged his dad may have done illegal abortions at his Franklin Av. house, perhaps the go to guy for abortions for the rich and famous of Hollywood. So I defer to you people who know much more about the Short case.

One thing though, Steve Lopez of the LAT seemed to vouch for him (Hodel) a few years ago, or is that incorrect? KFI 640 gave retired detective Hodel two hours on Saturday "Unsolved Cases" show. So who knows? There are evil fathers. Hodel's father had several other children. Do they say Det. Hodel is full of hot air? Do they stand with dad? The whole thing is almost too odd to believe, but Hodel spent 2 hours giving his evidence. All lies? Why would KFI give this former LAPD detective who claims a high case solve rate two hours of air time?

Hodel's dad has been dead since the 1990s, so he can't defend himself against this heinous accusation by his son. His other children should defend him. Have they? I can't imagine why former detective Hodel would say this about his father if he didn't believe it to be true, unless he was mentally disturbed. Why would he do this? To make money on his book? There seem to be easier ways to make money than calling your father a murderer. Has Steve Lopez at the Times said anything latelyabout the case?

Does anybody here say Hodel MIGHT be correct about the Short killer being his father? I defer to you long term noirishers who know a great deal about the case. If all this stuff from Hodel is made up, this has to be the biggest son-father grudge ever, or at least since Alexander vs. Philip of Macedon ,& Commodus vs. Marcus Aurelius.

Earl Boebert Jan 25, 2022 4:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9513059)
You are probably correct. It did get a little (or a lot) over the top and off the rails when Hodel said his dad may also later have been the "Zodiak" killer, and he also alleged his dad may have done illegal abortions at his Franklin Av. house, perhaps the go to guy for abortions for the rich and famous of Hollywood. So I defer to you people who know much more about the Short case.

One thing though, Steve Lopez of the LAT seemed to vouch for him (Hodel) a few years ago, or is that incorrect? KFI 640 gave retired detective Hodel two hours on Saturday "Unsolved Cases" show. So who knows? There are evil fathers. Hodel's father had several other children. Do they say Det. Hodel is full of hot air? Do they stand with dad? The whole thing is almost too odd to believe, but Hodel spent 2 hours giving his evidence. All lies? Why would KFI give this former LAPD detective who claims a high case solve rate two hours of air time?

Hodel's dad has been dead since the 1990s, so he can't defend himself against this heinous accusation by his son. His other children should defend him. Have they? I can't imagine why former detective Hodel would say this about his father if he didn't believe it to be true, unless he was mentally disturbed. Why would he do this? To make money on his book? There seem to be easier ways to make money than calling your father a murderer. Has Steve Lopez at the Times said anything latelyabout the case?

Does anybody here say Hodel MIGHT be correct about the Short killer being his father? I defer to you long term noirishers who know a great deal about the case. If all this stuff from Hodel is made up, this has to be the biggest son-father grudge ever, or at least since Alexander vs. Philip of Macedon ,& Commodus vs. Marcus Aurelius.

I've discussed the case in some length with Larry and his book is still in preparation so I'm not at all comfortable with relating what I learned in those conversations. So all I can say is that I've done a fair amount of analysis in my day (you can look me up on Amazon) and I am absolutely convinced Larry is right and Hodel is off in some place that I cannot understand.

Cheers,

Earl

CaliNative Jan 25, 2022 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Boebert (Post 9513217)
I've discussed the case in some length with Larry and his book is still in preparation so I'm not at all comfortable with relating what I learned in those conversations. So all I can say is that I've done a fair amount of analysis in my day (you can look me up on Amazon) and I am absolutely convinced Larry is right and Hodel is off in some place that I cannot understand.

Cheers,

Earl

Ok, will wait for the book. It might be interesting to get Hodel & Harnisch together sometime for a debate to present their evidence on who killed Elizabeth, maybe on KFI radio. Cheers. Rest in peace Elizabeth

TB1998 Jan 26, 2022 2:43 AM

Wondering if anyone can identify this building.

It appears in the Richard Donner movie INSIDE MOVES (1980 - AFD) which was mostly filmed in Echo Park.

Some scenes were also filmed downtown and I haven't had any luck finding this place in either location.

Not much to go on, but if anyone has any ideas...

Thanks!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/8840/QzOXKy.png

Mackerm Jan 26, 2022 2:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9513059)
Hodel's dad has been dead since the 1990s, so he can't defend himself against this heinous accusation by his son. His other children should defend him. Have they?

Let me take this opportunity to say something nice about Steve’s brother, Mike Hodel. Mike co-hosted a long running program on KPFK called Hour 25, and I was addicted to it. What stood out was that Mike Hodel was a brilliant interviewer. He came across as truly interested in his guests, whether actors from Star Trek, authors of fantasy novels, or scientists.

There is an archive of program recordings at the UC Riverside library, collected by the official Hour 25 Archivist, Eric Foss. One of my big wishes is to make some sort of crowdsourcing project to index these wonderful shows.

CaliNative Jan 26, 2022 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackerm (Post 9514411)
Let me take this opportunity to say something nice about Steve’s brother, Mike Hodel. Mike co-hosted a long running program on KPFK called Hour 25, and I was addicted to it. What stood out was that Mike Hodel was a brilliant interviewer. He came across as truly interested in his guests, whether actors from Star Trek, authors of fantasy novels, or scientists.

There is an archive of program recordings at the UC Riverside library, collected by the official Hour 25 Archivist, Eric Foss. One of my big wishes is to make some sort of crowdsourcing project to index these wonderful shows.

These interviews by Mike Hodel sound interesting. Can any be heard online at the KPFK website or at the UC Riverside library website? I'm an old trekker, so those sound interesting, plus the ones on science. Do you know if Mike Hodel has commented on his brother's accusation that their father was (possibly) the killer of Betty Short? Hope you make progress on you project. If you have info on how to listen to these shows now, please post the web address. Thanks.

ethereal_reality Jan 26, 2022 7:45 PM

.
Serendipitous (or not) ...You D-cide.


A couple of weeks ago, whilst looking for something totally unrelated, I happened upon an article in the L.A. Evening Citizen News about a suspect in the Elizabeth Short murder case. I didn't think too much about it until I googled his name in Black Dahlia blogs and quite surprisingly he doesn't show up in any of them. :shrug:


The man in question is Paul H. De Royck. (shown below)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/eq8IX6.jpg
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...922/UbPufy.jpg




https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...922/x6LDl2.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...923/Nn7Dau.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/TvHix9.jpg

Link

.

Mackerm Jan 27, 2022 4:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9514600)
These interviews by Mike Hodel sound interesting. Can any be heard online at the KPFK website or at the UC Riverside library website? I'm an old trekker, so those sound interesting, plus the ones on science. Do you know if Mike Hodel has commented on his brother's accusation that their father was (possibly) the killer of Betty Short? Hope you make progress on you project. If you have info on how to listen to these shows now, please post the web address. Thanks.

Not on the KPFK website. Here's the index page for the Hour 25 collection at UC Riverside.

If you search the Pacifica Radio Archives for Mike Hodel, you will get a big list of interviews he gave or produced. These are indices to taped recordings, no nothing online here either. It looks like many of these were excerpted from Hour 25 broadcasts. I wonder if they normally recorded entire programs, or only the interview portion, because the weekly calendar, the "nattering" portion, and things like the "Meech Report" were worth preserving.

There are a few recordings on YouTube.

The moribund official site for Hour 25 is http://www.hour25online.com/

Mike died tragically young - before his father, I think - and well before Steve Hodel began discussing his theory.

Star Trek actors I remember being interviewed on the show were: Walter Koenig, Mark Lenard, George Takei and Nichelle Nichols.

Flyingwedge Jan 27, 2022 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TB1998 (Post 9514401)
Wondering if anyone can identify this building.

It appears in the Richard Donner movie INSIDE MOVES (1980 - AFD) which was mostly filmed in Echo Park.

Some scenes were also filmed downtown and I haven't had any luck finding this place in either location.

Not much to go on, but if anyone has any ideas...

Thanks!

I got in the Google copter to look around, and I think your building is the Olympic Hotel at 725 S. Westlake Avenue.

Also, the building to the left/south matches where the young woman offers to provide John Savage with some company for $25.

It's interesting that "Inside Moves" appears to have been Harold Russell's first film since "The Best Years of Our Lives" in 1946.

CaliNative Jan 27, 2022 7:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackerm (Post 9515697)
Not on the KPFK website. Here's the index page for the Hour 25 collection at UC Riverside.

If you search the Pacifica Radio Archives for Mike Hodel, you will get a big list of interviews he gave or produced. These are indices to taped recordings, no nothing online here either. It looks like many of these were excerpted from Hour 25 broadcasts. I wonder if they normally recorded entire programs, or only the interview portion, because the weekly calendar, the "nattering" portion, and things like the "Meech Report" were worth preserving.

There are a few recordings on YouTube.

The moribund official site for Hour 25 is http://www.hour25online.com/

Mike died tragically young - before his father, I think - and well before Steve Hodel began discussing his theory.

Star Trek actors I remember being interviewed on the show were: Walter Koenig, Mark Lenard, George Takei and Nichelle Nichols.

Many thanks. I'll snoop around and see what I can find. If I do, I'll mention it here. You too, if anyone locates an online site for these interviews.

TB1998 Jan 27, 2022 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 9515702)
I got in the Google copter to look around, and I think your building is the Olympic Hotel at 725 S. Westlake Avenue.

Also, the building to the left/south matches where the young woman offers to provide John Savage with some company for $25.

It's interesting that "Inside Moves" appears to have been Harold Russell's first film since "The Best Years of Our Lives" in 1946.

You have nailed it! Thanks so much! :worship:

Godzilla Jan 28, 2022 4:25 PM

La Brea Hospital, 1233 N. La Brea
May 12, 1959 Location currently occupied by Ralphs Grocery



https://hdl.huntington.org/digital/a...58/default.jpghttps://hdl.huntington.org/digital/a...58/default.jpg

ethereal_reality Jan 28, 2022 8:21 PM

.
:previous:

This is where the Finn Twins recuperated after their incarceration (and hunger strike) while imprisoned on Terminal Island. The twin were in a fight with the U.S. Government over a surplus plane they had purchased from the Bakersfield School District to start an airline.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/9W2sr5.jpg
gettyimages

July 15, 1954

What got them in the most trouble was the citizen's arrest of U.S. District Attorney Laughlin Waters outside the Biltmore Bowl. (see below)

"After serving in the Air Corps during World War II, the pair bought a C-46-twin-engine transport plane from the Bakersfield school district with the intention of retrofitting it and using it as the first plane in their company. The federal government, however, said the sale was not valid and took possession of the plane. The Finn brothers went to extremes to battle for their plane and their company, including stealing and hiding the plane in Nevada, handcuffing U. S. District Attorney Laughlin Waters in a citizens arrest, and participating in a 71 day hunger strike. The plane was eventually sold in a Sheriff's auction in 1957."


Here they are in happier times. (pre-arrest?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...924/Cb0C1n.jpg
faithandfreedom, February 1956



.

ethereal_reality Jan 29, 2022 7:32 PM

.
A mystery building.



I need a little help with this photograph that was just listed on eBay

If I'm not mistaken, this the First Congregational Church at Sixth Street and. .um. .Occidental Blvd/Hoover St. (the two split there)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/IBCKl2.jpg
eBay

The biggest mystery to me is the arched building with the two turrets to the right of the church. At first I thought that it might be the old bandshell in Westlake/MacArthur Park. .



But take a look at this.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/kQyWZB.jpg
eBay

As you can see the building is much too big to be the bandshell and, if I'm not mistaken, Westlake Park would be 'behind' the photographer.

So what is this building?


Photographer's stamp.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/3...923/ENO0DC.jpg

......Will Connell - 428 Rampart - Los Angeles
.

HossC Jan 29, 2022 8:00 PM

:previous:

That's what-is-now the Joohyang Presbyterian Church at 3412 W 4th Street. The 1973 CD lists it as the Korean Royal Church. Sadly, the turrets are now gone. See here.

ethereal_reality Jan 29, 2022 8:08 PM

.
:previous:

So it is. :)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/qgEv6O.jpg

Thanks Hoss!





. . .perhaps if we show them the photograph they'll put the turret crowns back on. ;)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...922/SnZ12p.jpg

It looks like it wouldn't be all that difficult to do.



https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/6...924/jfDY1e.jpg


.

Lwize Jan 29, 2022 9:48 PM

I don't remember if this one's been posted.
1935 Wilshire Blvd.
Video stabilized, color-added and sound-added.
:)

Video Link

Harrys Jan 29, 2022 9:49 PM

The Hollywood Terminal Building - an image taken only a couple of days before the opening:


https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...UI0nVr9=s16000


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