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Quote:

It is one of New York City’s most complex public building challenges ever. Improving the dismal Penn Station, with options constrained by the presence of it’s neighbor above, Madison Square Garden. The MTA, which runs the Long Island Railroad and Metro North is leading the reconstruction project on behalf of Penn Station’s owner, Amtrak and its other major user, New Jersey Transit. The questions pile one on top of another, much as Madison Square Garden is piled atop the cramped station and the even more cramped platforms.

The City Council will decide this month whether to give The Garden a new permit to operateits 20,000 seat arena above the station and under what terms. An Italian developer says it has a $6 billion plan for reconstructing Penn Station that will be both better and cheaper than the MTA’s $7 billion plan, even though ASTM would pay Madison Square Garden half a billion dollars for some of its property, which the MTA does not want to do.

In the meantime, community and planning activists have stepped up their effort to get the three railroads to reconsider their separate but related plan to expand the terminal to the south, taking down an adjoining block, to make way for more trains from New Jersey after a new Hudson river tunnel is finished. Straus News sat down with the official in charge of rebuilding Penn Station, Jamie TorresSpringer, President of MTA Construction and Development.

In a wide ranging interview Torres Springer said he was skeptical of the Italian firms cost estimates. “Its not putting a finger in the air based on some Starchitect drawings,” he said. He also said he believed it was unlikely that the railroads could replace expansion of PennStation by running LIRR and NJ Transit trains through Penn Station instead of terminating ther. e. Andy Byford, the one-time head of NYC’s subways and buses who now works for Amtrak created a stir with recently by floating the idea of “through running” trains. “We just don’t have the space,” Torres-Springer said of the station’s tracks and platforms.

Quote:

Straus News: The last time our readers heard from you was your testimony at the City Council in which, among other things, you said you thought the Council shouldn’t grant a new operating permit to Madison Square Garden until you’d been able to reach an agreement with the Garden on what they needed to do to support Penn reconstruction. Where does that stand?

Torres-Springer: It stands were it stood then. We haven’t heard a word from Madison Square Garden. We’re awaiting that.

Straus News: The Council doesn’t seem likely to wait for that to happen?

Torres-Springer: It’s up to them. the city both through the Planning Commission and through the Council have asked the railroads to help to understand what it would take to make the arena compatible with the station. We’ve given them that information. We can talk about the specifics of what those things are. They’re not particularly difficult things to achieve. So if the question that they’re asking us is, ‘has Madison Square Garden done anything to come to an agreement with us that would insure compatibility?’ the answer is, no. They’ll have to decide what the implications of that are for the process.

Quote:

Straus News: The Italian developer, ASTM, has gotten a lot of attention for their proposal to rebuild Penn Station and have asked the railroads to issue a Request for Proposals in which they could bid to be the overall developer in a public private partnership with the railroads. That is different from the RFP you’ve talked about?

Torres-Springer: There is a lot of dialogue that is confusing a lot of these issues. Led by Governor [Kathy] Hochul, we have a master plan, all three railroads, for the reconstruction of Penn Station for its predominantly seventh avenue, 600,000 daily riders ...We are proceeding with that reconstruction project. We are in what’s called preliminary design. And when you do preliminary design–the station is enormously complex–we have a lot of work to do. When your done with that work, then you go out to seek your contractor, or your builder in an RFP process. We haven’t determined the best way to deliver yet. The RFP could be design/build. It could be p3 [Public Private Partnership]. It could be design then build. There will be that RFP that comes out at that stage. And that’s how the project will get built after we are through that preliminary stage of design.

Straus News: So the version they’ve proposed is one of several possibilities?

Torres-Springer: We would welcome their responding to our RFP when we’ve advanced designs sufficiently. ASTM is a private equity firm based in Italy, but that owns a contractor called Halmar. Halmar is a very good contractor for us.

Straus News: they’ve done other work for you?

Torres-Springer: Oh, yea. They are building Metro North Penn station access for us. They very successfully delivered the third track project to Long island. They are rebuilding the Park Avenue viaduct for us. They’re doing our first p3, which is the improvement of ADA stations that we awarded them at the end of last year. So when we come out with an RFP, or some sort of procurement to proceed with rebuilding the station, we welcome them to respond. Andthere are opportunities there–this is really the new MTA, and how we deliver more efficiently—for the contractor to come back and say we think you could do things differently. We think you could do it this way. We think you could do it that way. You could finance it differently. And then we get to take advantage of that. I have no idea where their cost estimate comes from. I see no information about it other than them coming out in public and saying it will cost $6 billion not $7 billion. But if its really true they can save us a billion dollars that’s great. And we really welcome them to enter the competition to deliver the project.

Quote:

Straus News: One of the biggest differences in cost estimates seems to be their argument that you don’t need to rebuild that bridge that runs above the taxiway and brings fans from Seventh Avenue into Madison Square Garden.

Torres-Springer: I’m really not sure. I don’t know anything about their cost estimates. They allege that they are building our plan exactly. There has been some talk about not rebuilding the bridge. But then adding this Hulu Theatre, which is a billion to two billion dollars. By adding that it significantly increases the cost .... when we produce a cost estimate we have to do it to meet the requirements of the Federal Railroad Administration. It’s a serious business. Its not putting a finger in the air based on some Starchitect drawings. We have to include the cost of all the track outages. The flagging. The support. We have program management and project management. We have to make sure all those things are in. I suspect you’re seeing an estimate from a group that hasn’t included all those things.

As to the bridge. The governors vision and the vision of the three railroads is a vision that focuses on improving Penn Station for the majority of the people who use it. We look a the whole Penn precinct. 70 percent of riders are on the seventh avenue side of the station. Another 30 percent are on the eight avenue side. Only 15 percent are coming into Eight avenue or leaving from Eight avenue. The other 15 percent are using the A, C and E Eighth Avenue lines. And those users to the extent that they’re using Amtrak trains already have Moynihan train hall. So our focus has been on the Seventh Avenue side of the station. Creating a midblock train hall in that location, with the soaring height and natural light, is a huge opportunity for us to better serve those passengers and also to make the station more safe. Because this is all about making sure we can contain smoke in an emergency and maintain a tenable concourse. It means you need vertical height for smoke to rise into so that people have time to egress from the station. So all of that is going into this midblock train hall concept.

And yes our master plan has us rebuilding the chase square bridge which sits in the middle ofthat train hall. If we are going to spend money -- precious public dollars -- on improving PennStation we want to focus that energy on the Seventh avenue side. That’s why that’s our plan.But we are further evaluating it as we move through design.

Quote:

Straus News: Are you also further evaluating ASTM’s proposal to buy the hulu theathre from Madison Square Garden and demolish it to create a grand entrance and train hall on Eight Avenue?

Torres-Springer: Yes, we will look at Eighth Avenue entrances. We will also look at loading which is a very important question. MSG is really loading either on the public street or in view of the public street. And our plan has an indoor loading facility within it. And we are going to look at that further and make sure that we’ve got the best possible plan for loading.

Straus News: One of the biggest flashpoints has been block 780 which is one of the complexities. It is yet a third issue. Demolishing the block south of Penn Station to make way for an expanded terminal for New Jersey Transit. Can you say a little but about Penn expansion and through running and where you see that at this point.

Torres-Springer: I would really recommend talking to Amtrak about that. Just as the MTA has the majority of the current riders of penn station–long island railroad riders and subway riders–and so we are somewhat managing acting on behalf of the group of three railroads on Penn reconstruction. I think Amtrak and New Jersey Transit are doing something similar on the expansion. Because the expansion is really going to serve those riders. I mean we are partners in this. We support doing the work in the same way they support doing the work that we are doing in Penn reconstruction. But that’s a good question to ask them, just to pursue it slightly.

Advocates have argued that running trains through the station would alleviate the need for expansion and the destruction of block 780. Through running involves New Jersey Transit, obviously. But it also involves the Long Island Rail Road and potentially even Metro North. It depends what you mean by through running. We are doing a study to look at alternatives for through running that should be done soon....We’ve been looking at those questions of whether through running is viable through the existing station or whether it really is more appropriate to achieve it through an expansion of the station.

Quote:

Straus News: So the 2017 study that was recently reported was actually a piece of this larger study?

Torres-Springer: Right. It was a white paper of sorts that was done as part of this master plan for Penn Reconstruction and it gave us some helpful preliminary insight. But as you said we are into enviornmental review under the federal NEPA standards and that we are doing a fuller study building on that analysis that was done.

Straus News: how would you characterize the prelimary findings of that report.

Torres-Springer: I will say the report in a preliminary way determined that there was not really a viable path to building out the existing station for through running. But we are going to confirm that through this more rigourous study. Its about the limitation on the amount of track we have and the size of the platforms. To bring trains in and through in more of a through running mode you just need more room for passengers to wait on platforms, board and alight the trains. We just don’t have that space. Penn Station was built for 200,000 riders and it’s carrying 600,000 riders a day. We are trying to improve the experience for those 600,000 riders. Adding more riders and more capacity is really challenging. Its not just about Penn Station it’s also about what leads into Penn Station from both sides. The East River tunnels. What’s underneath Manhattan. Where you go under the Hudson. There is a real feasibility limitation on expanding the capacity of existing Penn. That I think leads us to the likelihood that it’s the expansion where you could do more train movements like that. But as I said we are researching it. We’re studying it and we’ll be out with something. ....It’s the same three railroads doing it together but its under an environmental review contract.

Quote:

Straus News: Would moving the Garden allow you to do things you couldn’t otherwise do by pulling out presumably many of the columns that run down to the platforms and support the arena?

Torres-Springer: I’m really a little out of my depth here. But I really don’t think so. The Gardens columns are a problem. But it’s sort of marginal compared to the bigger capacity problems we have in the existing train shed.

Straus News: The public is often confused by all the intersecting and overlapping elements of this situation.

Torres-Springer: There are a lot of moving parts. But our guiding star here is: we have 600,000 people every day in the rabbit warrens of Penn Station having an uncomfortable experience that is not safe. And so we are laser focused on improving the existing Penn Station. You areright, there are lots of other things going on. But we are designing the improvements. We aredoing the environmental review and we are moving to actually getting work done before 2027when metro north penn access comes into penn and its going to be more difficult for us to get the outages that we need to work. That’s what we are about at the MTA. We are doing it in partnership with the railroads. So we just stay focused on that.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic..._medium=social

NYC’s Long-Awaited Rail Tunnel Set to Get Shovels in the Ground
-Tunnel under Hudson not expected to be completed until 2035
-Construction in Hudson Yards to start in coming weeks

By Skylar Woodhouse
August 10, 2023

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Evidence of the $16.1 billion, long-delayed, once-canceled effort to build a new tunnel linking New York and New Jersey will finally start appearing on Manhattan streets in the coming weeks.

Work is set to begin in Hudson Yards, the waterfront neighborhood on Manhattan’s west side, on a link to connect Penn Station with the Hudson Tunnel, the new regional and commuter rail link known as the Gateway project.

“I didn’t think a year ago that we were gonna be in a position where I could say, wow, we’re gonna see a shovel in the ground,” said Alicia Glen, New York commissioner and co-chair of the Gateway Development Commission, in an interview Wednesday. “But I feel pretty good about that.”

Quote:

Construction was able to move forward after President Joe Biden announced a $292 million grant in January, allowing the commission in May to award a contract to Amtrak to begin work on the Hudson Yards link.

“I have never seen such tremendous movement that we’ve seen in the past year,” said Glen’s New Jersey counterpart, Balpreet Grewal-Virk.

Gateway is key to easing congestion under the Hudson River, a choke point on the Northeast Corridor that runs between Boston and Washington, the country’s busiest passenger-train route. The existing tunnel is more than a century old and increasingly unreliable, Amtrak says.

Efforts to build a new tunnel have been underway since the 1990s but have been plagued by delays.

A predecessor tunnel project, with full funding in place, had started construction when it was canceled by then-New Jersey Governor Chris Christie in 2010, who said the state couldn’t afford it. Gateway was proposed a year later but stalled under the Trump administration.

“We are going to put whatever sort of negative juju there had been about this project over the past ten years aside, and just concentrate on getting it done,” Glen said.

With Vornado finishing up demolition at Hotel Penn and trying to sure up liquidity with the tightening commercial real estate market + higher interest rates, their next move will probably continue demo with their Manhattan Mall/100 WEST 33RD STREET which is almost vacant except one store. Its a potential site to move the aging and most certainly in the way MSG.

From June 20th
https://www.archpaper.com/2023/06/co...ovation-plans/

The lost dream or future? MSG did state last April a willingness to move east...
https://www.archpaper.com/wp-content...3-1200x592.jpg

aaaaand they’re back to tusseling again —

Penn Station overhaul sparks feud between MTA and Amtrak

By Stephen Nessen
Published Aug 25, 2023

The MTA’s $7 billion plan to renovate Penn Station got off to a rocky start last month when the agency’s top officials boxed Amtrak executives out of a closed door meeting on the new design of the Midtown train hub, according to an internal letter from an Amtrak leader.

The July 17 letter was sent to Amtrak, MTA and NJ Transit leaders by Jennie Kwon, the national railroad’s vice president for capital delivery. The memo details a meeting MTA officials held with a firm hired to consult on the station’s redesign.

The letter — which was obtained by Gothamist through a source — states the July 6 “kickoff” meeting was not attended by or approved by Amtrak, which owns Penn Station.

more:
https://gothamist.com/news/penn-stat...mta-and-amtrak

Madison Square Garden Can Stay Put for Another Five Years, New York City Council Says

https://www.costar.com/article/42948...y-council-says

Five years to move east via Vornado or stay put and delay a new Penn Station.

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/6e9/....h467.w700.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperPower (Post 10025775)

https://www.costar.com/article/42948...y-council-says

Five years to move east via Vornado or stay put and delay a new Penn Station.

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/6e9/....h467.w700.jpg

wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? New station and MSG can build a stadium that's not archaic...? Sphere 2.0 on top of a new MSG would be great haha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinoy2.0 (Post 10025808)

wouldn't that be a win win for everyone? New station and MSG can build a stadium that's not archaic...? Sphere 2.0 on top of a new MSG would be great haha

A new arena, yes. On site. MSG isn't moving anywhere, and it's time everyone figured out they're stuck with MSG in it's current location. The constant chatter of "moving" MSG is a waste of everyone's time, and gets nothing done. It's the reason that the parties that are actually involved in this whole scenario (rebuilding Penn) aren't asking for it to be moved.

https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/1...ever-FN2690979

11th Hr. Appeal: Local Bars, Other Small Business Owners, Urge City Council to Renew MSG’s Special Permit Forever
Nearly two dozen small businesses, including a dozen pubs, one real estate tower, two parking garages and the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce, sent a last minute appeal to the City Council asking its committee to recommend renewing in perpetuity the special permit that Madison Square Garden needs to operate the arena above Penn Station. But the Council’s landuse and franschise sub committee voted on Monday, Aug. 28 to only grant a five extension. It still must go to the full City Council for a vote next month before the permit lenght is finalized.

MICHAEL ORESKES
28 AUG 2023

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A raft of restaurants, bars and other businesses around Madison Square Garden–saying the Garden’s crowds provided much of their business–appealed to the City Council to give the arena a new permit to operate permanently.

The eleventh hour appeal came as the Council worked toward an August 28th deadline to decide on whether, or for how long, to grant The Garden a new permit to operate and on what conditions, including what MSG will be required to do to facilitate the reconstruction of Penn Station beneath it.

“Madison Square Garden is the economic lifeblood of our community, not only employing thousands but attracting many thousands more to local businesses all year round,” the businesses wrote in a letter to the speaker of the Council, Adrienne Adams and three pivotal members, Erik Bottcher, who represents the neighborhood, Rafael Salamanca Jr., who chairs the land use committee and Kevin Riley, chair of the subcommittee on zoning and franchises.

“With its ability to operate at full capacity for the long term now at stake, we urge you to approve its request to renew its special operating permit in perpetuity”

The letter was signed by twenty local eating and drinking establishments, two parking garages and the Manhattan Chamber of Commerce.

“Our establishments are located within walking distance of The Garden, and we rely on the arena for a great deal of our evening and weekend business.”

Richard Constable, The Executive Vice President of MSG Enertainment, which owns the Garden said: “Our local businesses understand how important Madison Square Garden is to their neighborhood and we appreciate their ongoing support.”

https://www.thecity.nyc/2023/8/28/23...t-penn-station

Five-Year Madison Square Garden Permit Inflates Pressure to Play Ball
A City Council committee shrinks the timeline for the Midtown arena’s operation as Penn Station plans hang in the balance.

BY GABRIEL POBLETE
AUG 28, 2023

Quote:

The local Council member stressed his desire for the owners of the famed arena to play ball with transit agencies in rehabilitating Penn Station, which is located underneath MSG.

During a Zoning and Franchises subcommittee meeting, Councilmember Erik Bottcher (D-Manhattan), whose district includes the complex, said that an antiquated loading setup for concerts and other events clashed with the intensifying transit activity underneath the Garden.

“Because of this use conflict, at this time the Council cannot determine the long-term viability of an arena at this location,” Bottcher said. “Therefore five years is an appropriate term for this special permit.”

Bottcher said the Council would require the development of a transportation management plan. The permit now goes to the full Council, where it is expected to be approved. Mayor Eric Adams has the power to review the permit and veto it if he chooses.

Quote:

MSG Entertainment issued a statement shortly after the vote, calling the Land Use Committee’s decision disappointing.

“A short-term special permit is not in anyone’s best interest and undermines the ability to immediately revamp Penn Station and the surrounding area,” the statement reads. “The committees have done a grave disservice to New Yorkers today, in a shortsighted move that will further contribute to the erosion of the City – that’s true now and will be true five years from now.”

For years now, neighborhood advocates and elected officials have called for MSG to leave its home atop Penn Station, arguing the arena stood in the way of train station improvements. When the City Council last renewed the arena’s special permit a decade ago, Council members said Dolan should look to move the world-famous arena elsewhere.

But MSG executives have made clear they are not budging. Since it owns the property, getting MSG to move elsewhere or denying them the permit could be extraordinarily costly, with a state-estimated price tag of $8.6 billion.

Quote:

In a June letter to the City Planning Commission, MSG Entertainment executive vice president Richard Constable said that while the group is willing to work with the railroads, that doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll give up their property.

“As we have discussed with Department of City Planning staff, MSG’s commitment to partner with the Rail Agencies does not, in any way, mean that MSG must offer easements on our private property, or offer to transfer ownership of our private property, at less than fair market value,” Constable said in the letter.

follow the $ —

Madison Square Garden PAC Funds Council Members Who’ll Vote on Arena’s Future

By Gabriel Poblete, The City
Posted on September 6, 2023

The company that owns Madison Square Garden has donated the maximum dollars allowed to more than a dozen City Council campaigns, while the Council readies to vote on the Midtown arena’s permit and weighs a bill that would end its controversial use of facial recognition technology.

more:
https://www.amny.com/news/madison-sq...uncil-members/

Business

Manhattan officials want The Theater at MSG razed to make way for Penn Station grand hall

By Max Parrott
Posted on September 12, 2023

Tear down this theater!

That was the message from two Manhattan elected officials Tuesday as they called for the demolition of The Theater at Madison Square Garden to open up space for a grander redesign of Penn Station.

more:
https://www.amny.com/nation/the-thea...nd-hall-plans/

https://www.amny.com/wp-content/uplo...-1200x873.jpeg
Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine, Congress Member Jerry Nadler, Assembly Members Tony Simone and Daniel O’Donnell, and City Council Member Erik Bottcher speak outside The Theater at MSG on Sept. 12, 2023.
Photo courtesy of Manhattan Borough President’s office

https://www.crainsnewyork.com/transp...struction-plan

Judge rules in favor of state’s Penn Station reconstruction plan

AARON ELSTEIN
September 20, 2023

Quote:

The Hochul administration’s plan to help pay for reconstructing Penn Station by having 10 supertall towers built around it survived a test in court after a judge dismissed a lawsuit brought by community groups.

Penn Community Defense Fund, the City Club of New York and two other plaintiffs had alleged Empire State Development acted arbitrarily and capriciously. They contended the state agency failed to assess how much revenue would be contributed to Penn Station from the new towers and that officials rolled over to the wishes of Vornado Realty Trust, the firm that seeks to redevelop the area near the dismal commuter hub.

But in order to derail the plan, the plaintiffs had to demonstrate ESD acted without a legal basis for its decisions and they failed to do so, state Judge Lucy Billings said in a ruling released Tuesday. She added the law “unambiguously allows” state officials to defer questions about the project’s financial details to some undetermined date.

Quote:

Richard Emery, an attorney for the plaintiffs, said he disagreed with the judge’s decision and is weighing an appeal.

“Very unfortunately, the laws in the books don’t provide a safeguard that good public policy deserves,” said Layla Law-Gisiko, chair of the land use committee for Community Board 5, who opposes the state’s plan.

The person who wrote this article doesn't understand that part of the environmental review is to look at the alternatives - in this case there are 3 "options" - before moving forward with the preferred alternative. Everyone knows the expansion will be south, but the alternatives have to be looked at anyway. Only when the "preferred alternative" is announced will it become official.

Keep that in mind when reading through this. None of this is new.

https://nypost.com/2023/09/19/penn-s...-plans-reveal/

Penn Station expansion could balloon beyond single block, hit whopping $16.7B, new plans reveal

By Nolan Hicks
Sep. 19, 2023

Quote:

The MTA’s controversial plan to demolish a block of Midtown to expand Penn Station has grown even larger and $4 billion more expensive — with a price tag that could now approach $17 billion, records show.

Newly revised schematics reviewed by The Post call for a terminal that would be far larger than the massive $11 billion one just dug under Manhattan’s Grand Central Terminal for the new Long Island Rail Road station — a project that ran so late and over budget it became a poster child for mismanagement.

The new Pennsylvania Station is being designed to fit extra trains to run under the Hudson River after the completion of the $16 billion Gateway Project. That project involves the construction of a new tunnel linking New York and New Jersey and refurbishing existing century-old Penn tracks that were badly damaged by Superstorm Sandy.

Originally, plans were to build an eight-track extension that would be largely confined to one block and carry an estimated price tag of $13 billion.

But the 200-plus-page revised Penn Station engineering document — developed in coordination with Amtrak and New Jersey Transit — lays out three new plans for the expansion.

Quote:

The first proposal would dig a cavern to build a 12-track station that would be split across two levels — and be 50% larger than the LIRR’s Grand Central Madison station — at an estimated cost of $16.7 billion.

The project would be mostly contained within the block between Seventh and Eighth avenues from 30th to 31st streets.

But the proposed 12-track station would no longer fit with the connections that are supposed to link it to the new Hudson River tunnel being built as part of the Gateway project, forcing officials to spend more than $280 million to redo the work.

The second proposal calls for a new nine-track station that would be split across two levels. It would allow the MTA to use the existing tunnels linking the station to the Gateway tunnel.

Quote:

But the document warns that the nine-track proposal would likely sprawl well beyond Seventh Avenue to the east — potentially a third of the way to Sixth Avenue.

“[The station] would be located primarily … between Seventh and Eighth avenues and between West 30th and West 31st streets,” it states. “The station area would extend under these streets and would also occupy [the block between 30th and 31st streets and Eighth and Ninth avenues] to the west and more of [the block between 30th and 31st streets and Sixth and Seventh avenues] east of Seventh Avenue.”

That plan would cost an estimated $12.3 billion.

The third proposal would build a 10-track terminal to the north of Penn Station, beneath Herald Square — contained in the block bound by Sixth and Seventh Avenues between 33rd and 34th streets, which currently contains a Target and an H&M.

It would cost an estimated $15.6 billion.

Quote:

Officials are believed to favor the first two proposals, to the immediate south of Penn Station, over the Herald Square plan.

The project’s outside consultants and designers justify the station’s ballooning size with an extraordinary assumption: This modern multibillion-dollar facility will be less efficient than the current century-old Penn Station complex.

It assumes that trains will spend an average of 22 minutes at each platform, which is more than double the time currently needed by the LIRR or New Jersey Transit to board and disembark.

Increasing the amount of time a train spends at a platform increases the number of platforms a station needs to handle more trains to fit its schedule.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

A schematic of a new Penn Station expansion plan includes a 12-track station at a whopping cost of $16.7 billion.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

This second proposal for Penn Station’s expansion would have two levels as well, but not be stacked on top of each other, thus requiring more land.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

The third proposal would build a 10-track station to the north and east of the current Penn Station between Sixth and Seventh avenues and 33rd and 34th streets. A portion of it would tuck in beneath the Herald Square Macy’s.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

These renderings from the MTA show what the current Penn Station complex would look like after its current proposed $7 billion renovation of the facility. The plan, however, would not increase capacity through the current station complex.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/n...son-river.html

New Phase of Gateway Tunnel Project in Hudson River to Begin
Work on the long-delayed rail tunnel is set to speed up this month, as Senator Chuck Schumer announces an additional $3.8 billion in federal funding.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023...y=75&auto=webp

By Patrick McGeehan
Nov. 3, 2023

Quote:

Construction of the long-delayed rail tunnel under the Hudson River is about to speed up, as the project gets an additional $3.8 billion in federal funding.

Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, announced the latest grant on Friday, just before he and Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary, proclaimed that work would start this month on the next phase of the $16.1 billion tunnel known as the Gateway project.

The new, early phase of the project involves building a concrete casing on Manhattan’s West Side for trains to pass through under Hudson Yards, between the river’s edge and Pennsylvania Station.

On the New Jersey side of the river, work is also scheduled to begin this month on the realignment of a highway so that the digging of the tunnel can start. Plans laid out by the project’s sponsor, the Gateway Development Commission, call for two giant boring machines to grind their way through the Palisades cliff, under the river and into the Manhattan bedrock.

Quote:

Digging is expected to begin in 2025. The new tunnel is scheduled to open 10 years later.

On Friday, Mr. Buttigieg called the tunnel project “the largest and most significant infrastructure project” in the nation and likened it to “cathedrals of our infrastructure,” such as the Golden Gate Bridge and Hoover Dam.

The plan to build a tunnel between the station and New Jersey has been a political football for more than 15 years. But with the enthusiastic support of the Biden administration, Mr. Schumer, the Democratic majority leader, has lined up more than $10 billion in federal funds for the tunnel, which Mr. Buttigieg has called a national priority.

“With so much money already there, there’s virtually no chance it won’t be completed,” Mr. Schumer said on Thursday.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023...y=75&auto=webp

https://ny1.com/nyc/manhattan/news/2...in-new-funding

Gateway Tunnel project work begins as $3.8B in new funding is announced

By Erica Brosnan and Spectrum News Staff
Nov. 03, 2023

Quote:

.....Schumer also announced Friday the allocation of an additional $3.8 billion in federal funding for the project, which is set to be the nation's largest public works project.

The announcement came on the heels of $6.88 billion Schumer unveiled in July, the largest such grant to a mass transit project in U.S. history.

Schumer said the newly secured $3.8 billion from the Federal Railroad Administration will be allocated toward critical elements such as track, signals and systems, while the July FTA funds will support the concrete core and shell of the Gateway Tunnel.

"This is huge for mass transit and transportation across New York," Schumer said at a news conference, calling the allocation a "major, major milestone" for the project. "With these new dollars, Gateway's future is assured. All systems go. There is no turning back."

The new rail tunnel under the river will serve Amtrak and New Jersey Transit. As part of the project, workers will also repair an existing tunnel damaged during Hurricane Sandy.

The existing tunnel is the only passenger rail tunnel between New Jersey and New York. More than 200,000 passenger trips are made on trains through it each weekday, according to the Biden administration.

Schumer said the project will also provide a large boost to the economy, predicting the creation of 72,000 jobs and $19 billion in economic activity.

The new tunnel will provide a vital artery in the northeast for rail traffic, where travel demand could rise as much as 32% more than pre-pandemic levels by the time the project is completed, according to estimates by the Regional Plan Association, a century-old nonprofit dedicated to the development of the New Jersey-New York-Connecticut region.

"For 30 years, Americans travelers, businesses, workers have been hoping for this day. But years of inaction, excuses, delays and the infighting are finally over," Gov. Kathy Hochul said at the news conference.

"We're now heralding in a new era of working not against each other, but working together to accomplish great things," she added.

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Groundbreaking for Hudson Rail Tunnel Draws Politicos and Protestors

The feds are going to kick in 70 percent of the Hudson rail tunnel known as the Gateway Project, but the reality is more trains will not roll into Penn Station until 2038. And no one is saying yet where the extra trains well go in Penn Station.

MICHAEL ORESKES| 06 NOV 2023 | 10:23

Officials announced a major step forward on building a new Hudson river tunnel that would double the number of trains that can come from New Jersey, but they left unaddressed the controversial question of exactly where at the already overcrowded Penn Station those trains would go.

Senator Chuck Schumer arrived at a photo opportunity in Hudson Yards with news that the Federal Government would pay a bigger share– more than 70 percent–than previously expected of the $16.1 billion project known as Gateway.

Governor Kathy Hochul said she already had ideas for construction projects the state could fund with the money it would save by the reduction of its share of the Gateway project.

Officials billed the day as the official start of construction of the long delayed Gateway. Schumer and Hochul made their remarks in front of construction equipment gathered as a backdrop to announce the start of a seemingly prosaic piece of the project–a concrete casement to carry trains from the envisioned tunnel through the eastern portion of Hudson Yards.

Along with the start of the casement on the Manhattan side, work began on moving a road on the Jersey side to make way for tunneling.

The tunnel itself won’t be ready for ten years or more, but the casement needs to be built now so it won’t later impede potential plans to deck over the rail yard. The developer, Related Companies, has proposed building a Casino above the yards. Its executives attended the photo opportunity.

The western portion of Hudson Yards was decked over some ten years ago and is now a complex of residential, hotel and commercial buildings. Before that deck was built a concrete casement was built for trains coming through a tunnel that at the time was only a hope.

The casement being started now will connect to the one already built under the western portion of Hudson Yards. But where the trains will go from there is a subject of intense debate.

New Jersey Transit has seemed to favor a plan to expand Penn Station to the south, demolishing the block between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, sometimes described by its tax roll identification, Block 780. Right now that block is populated by small businesses including bars, restaurants, a pizza place, delis, coffee shops, a Meyer’s Parking garage and even St. John the Baptist Catholic Church.

Community and preservation groups fiercely oppose this plan. They gathered outside the gates of Hudson Yards to press their view on Hochul, Schumer and the other assembled officials.

“We reiterated our support for the Gateway Tunnels under the Hudson, but reiterated our belief these tunnels should be connected to the Moynihan Penn Station Complex and not a terminal station with more tracks to the south of Penn Station,” said Samuel Turvey, a leader of the opposition.

A spokesman stressed that the Gateway project was entirely separate from any decision to expand Penn Station.

“There is no question as to where the trains that go through both the new tunnel, and the rehabilitated existing tunnel, will arrive,” said the spokesman, Stephen Sigmund. “They will arrive at Penn Station. From Day 1. And from the day forward. You are correct that at some point in the future Penn Station may be expanded. Even if that happened, they would still arrive at Penn Station.”

The configuration of the concrete casement already built or the one begun last week will not preordain any decisions about how to handle the increased traffic, Gateway officials argued.

Turvey and the other opponents argue that Block 780 can be saved if New Jersey Transit and the other railroads that use Penn Station–the Long Island Railroad and Amtrak–integrate their operations so they run trains through the station rather than terminating their runs there.

This, the argument goes, would increase capacity without increasing tracks and improve service by allowing passengers to take one seat rides from, say, Queens to New Jersey or Seacaucus, NJ to the Hamptons.

Amtrak said last summer that it was reviewing this option as part of an overall environmental review and plans to hold public outreach. But nothing further has been said since.

The chair of Amtrak, Anthony Coscia, said at the event that the expansion of rail capacity made possible by the new tunnel could allow innovations, such as running service directly from Long Island to Washington D.C.

Amtrak trains already run through Queens on their way from Boston to Washington through Penn Station, but they don’t stop there. Amtrak has previously said it would like to extend its intercity service out on Long Island to Ronkonkoma by working with the MTA and its Long Island Railroad “for each provider to expand services on the other’s route” a small version of through running of the sort Turvey and others are arguing for on a large scale.

The bigger question is whether New Jersey Transit and the Long Island Rail Road, run by the MTA, could run trains through Penn Station onto each others services. Andy Byford, the former had of the New York Transit Authority and now head of high speed rail for Amtrak, has supported this concept.

But Amtrak says he is not working on the Gateway Project or the related plans to improve Penn Station.

“The proposed southern expansion of Penn Station doubles down on dated train operating methods at Penn today,” Said Turvey. “Instead of streamlining operations at Penn by implementing the modern methodology of through running, the railroads are opting to expand the highly inefficient use of terminal tracks.

“This means that instead of having trains pass through Penn productively to stops across the region they will sit in train yards or return near empty to their points of origin. This dated model will cost two to three times more than through running, provide poorer service and will require the gratuitous demolition of one block and a half of Manhattan.”

The new Hudson River tunnel has been repeatedly delayed. An earlier plan which would have brought trains in to the north of Penn Station, under Macy’s, was scuttled by then NJ governor Chris Christie. And efforts to revive the project were slow walked by the Trump Administration.

Senator Schumer stressed that the combination of the increased federal financing he was announcing and the start of the casement construction were a signal that the project will now proceed.

The need for the new tunnel was dramatized ten years ago by Super Storm Sandy. Schumer, Hochul and the others were gathered, in fact, in an area that had been submerged by sea water during the storm. The water also flooded the current tunnel, built 110 years ago by the Pennsylvania Railroad.

The damage is so severe that service is frequently delayed and officials worry they might have to shut them down for long term repairs, disrupting an economic lifeline of the northeast.

When the new Gateway tunnel is finished, projected to be in 2035, the old tunnel will be taken out of service for repair. Only after it is returned to service, in 2038, will the full increase in rail capacity be realized.

https://www.ourtownny.com/news/groun...tors-YB2838991

https://nypost.com/2023/11/08/metro/...aimed-records/

Penn Station revamp plan to cost $2B more than first claimed: records

By Nolan Hicks
Nov. 8, 2023

Quote:

One of the two major renovation plans to revamp and operate Penn Station is likely to cost $2 billion more than its supporters initially claimed, The Post has learned.

Former MTA chairman Pat Foye and his new employer, Italian transportation conglomerate ASTM, have been claiming their bid to rebuild and privatize the station will cost no more than $6 billion – but records obtained by The Post show it will come in at more than $8 billion.

The newly surfaced estimates were included in a 200-plus page engineering analysis authored by the MTA and its consultants back in 2020 — when Foye was still helming the agency — as they examined a variety of plans for rebuilding the station.

The report was finalized a year before Foye departed the MTA and ended up on ASTM’s payroll as a top executive.

ASTM and the MTA are the only two parties now vying for the lucrative contract to overhaul the Midtown Manhattan transport hub.

Quote:

Under the ASTM and MTA’s plans, both would spend $4.7 billion to tear apart the station’s warren of floors and narrow corridors and turn it into a new and easy-to-navigate structure that would consolidate all passenger-related functions on a single level.

ASTM’s pitch, however, would then build a grand new Eighth Avenue entrance by blowing out the west side of Penn Station and the Madison Square Garden’s Hulu Theater above it.

The MTA’s analysis considered a nearly identical proposal to ASTM’s plan, which found that it would cost another $1.2 billion to carry out that work, the records show.

And that’s before paying MSG’s controversial owner, James Dolan, for the land, which ASTM has publicly estimated would cost another $500 million.

The pandemic-era inflation bubble of 2020-2022 would push that $6.4 billion total up to $8.1 billion — assuming there’s not a drop of debt required to finance the proposal.

Foye and ASTM have gotten powerful Manhattan elected officials onboard with their pitch by claiming they could finance the overhaul, run the station and turn a profit by charging the MTA, Amtrak and New Jersey Transit a seemingly incidental annual fee of $250 million for 50 years.

However, the engineering docs and subsequent analysis by The Post show that would only generate $7.5 billion over three decades, meaning the operation would be deep in the red for years unless taxpayers and riders shell over larger payments.

Quote:

“Press releases are not financial plans and are not comparable to a thorough analysis of cost completed by the MTA,” said Rachael Fauss, an MTA expert at watchdog group, Reinvent Albany. “Transit riders need more than a PowerPoint to explain how the costs are going to add up.”

“Trust us, ‘you’ll get a steal on the front end and you’ll just have to pay a bit over the years’ — it’s a gimmick,” she added. “We’re going to pay either way. What appears to be cheaper will likely cost more in the end. The amount of risk they’re asking taxpayers to take on is enormous.”

In comparison, the MTA’s plan swaps out the grand Eighth Avenue train hall proposal for a dramatic midblock entrance, which would replace the existing shuttered taxi way and require a complicated reworking of the skybridge that links MSG to a neighboring office tower.

The midblock proposal was estimated to cost approximately $750 million in 2020.

All in, the MTA’s proposal was estimated to cost $5.45 billion in 2020, a price tag that’s been pushed to $7.1 billion by inflation, the agency has said.

Dolan has fiercely opposed the MTA’s plan and claims it could interrupt operations at the MSG, potentially forcing the Knicks and Rangers to play elsewhere.

His company has provided engineering support and other assistance for ASTM’s proposal, which MTA insiders have viewed as a stalking horse to score a large property payout from demolishing the Hulu.

Government watchdog groups have flagged Foye’s involvement as a likely violation of state regulations that bar him from any interactions with his former agency for two years and impose a lifetime ban on matters he was personally involved with.

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

https://nypost.com/wp-content/upload...y=75&strip=all

Saw on the news the rebuilt 7th Avenue entrance will reopen this weekend.

So they’ve finally reopened the 7th Avenue entrance, which connects to the upper level. Nothing spectacular (will look better when all the scaffolding and excess is removed). But it was a major inconvenience having it closed.

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Wonder what will be going where the Amtrak/ Vornado welcome signs are. Would be nice to have train times, idk what else would work unless it's just going to be ads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleu1117 (Post 10084362)

Wonder what will be going where the Amtrak/ Vornado welcome signs are. Would be nice to have train times, idk what else would work unless it's just going to be ads.

They probably won't put the train times, at least like the regular screens, because they don't want people blocking the entrance. It could be more like the touristy/advertising stuff they do over at Moynihan.

For comparison, this is what it used to look like...

https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/sta...07056020537610

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_UHoCWW...pg&name=medium

Was admiring the new entrance area around 2 Penn earlier, and the MSG entrance is great. It's what stands out. From that side, it would be hard to believe the actual crap that is the arena building. Dolan needs to do better.

Back to Gateway, the new Portal Bridge is making steady progress. A sign and a reminder that the new tunnel is on the way, and better days are ahead for Penn.

This video is already a couple of weeks old, but I always forget to post them.

• Video Link

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^ Yeah, they’ve been busy there for a while now. Gateway is definitely moving forward.

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