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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

dktshb Aug 15, 2021 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9365995)
Yes, get a vaxxed. I have and so has everybody else I know. However.....

The vaccines are proving to be less effective than natural immunity, so much so, that a third booster shot is being administered in other nations and in immunocompromised populations here. There still is an extreme outlier that the vaccines actually enhance viral loads when re-exposed with potential variants, that would be the worst possible outcome because 72% of us have at least 1 shot.

Actually according to the CDC if you had a past covid infection and have natural immunity you're twice as likely to catch delta than vaccinated people.

ttps://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/natural-immunity-vaccine-delta-variant

Pedestrian Aug 15, 2021 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9365995)
The vaccines are proving to be less effective than natural immunity, so much so, that a third booster shot is being administered in other nations and in immunocompromised populations here. There still is an extreme outlier that the vaccines actually enhance viral loads when re-exposed with potential variants, that would be the worst possible outcome because 72% of us have at least 1 shot.

I believe it's more subtle than that nor do I believe vaccines "enhance viral loads".

For one thing, those currently with "natural immunity" are a mixture of people who got covid from the various strains. It seems logical that those who were infected with the delta strain and recovered would have stronger immunity than those who got the shots which are based on the original strain. But it's less clear about those who got infected last year with the original or alpha strains.

Second, there are various ways to play the game. I've been saying, if I could get it I would want a third shot of the Chinese vaccine. That's because that vaccine is made the way nearly all vaccines used to be made: With killed virus. And thus it contains the entire panoply of viral proteins including those which don't seem critical to viral attachment to human cells but which may be critical to other viral functions like replication or which simply are more a stable and mutate less often. The immunity thus conferred is likely weaker than natural infection but otherwise similar and, on top of the strong immunity the mRNA vaccines confer for the limited range of viral proteins they confer immunity toward, might be the best situation of all (all, that is, except getting a mild case of delta covid on top of being double immunized with the RNA vaccine).

Pedestrian Aug 15, 2021 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 9366002)
Actually according to the CDC if you had a past covid infection and have natural immunity you're twice as likely to catch delta than vaccinated people.

Again--it might depend on which strain you had and I haven't seen a study which controlled for that.

dktshb Aug 15, 2021 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9366006)
I believe it's more subtle than that nor do I believe vaccines "enhance viral loads".

For one thing, those currently with "natural immunity" are a mixture of people who got covid from the various strains. It seems logical that those who were infected with the delta strain and recovered would have stronger immunity than those who got the shots which are based on the original strain. But it's less clear about those who got infected last year with the original or alpha strains.

Second, there are various ways to play the game. I've been saying, if I could get it I would want a third shot of the Chinese vaccine. That's because that vaccine is made the way nearly all vaccines used to be made: With killed virus. And thus it contains the entire panoply of viral proteins including those which don't seem critical to viral attachment to human cells but which may be critical to other viral functions like replication or which simply are more a stable and mutate less often. The immunity thus conferred is likely weaker than natural infection but otherwise similar and, on top of the strong immunity the mRNA vaccines confer for the limited range of viral proteins they confer immunity toward, might be the best situation of all (all, that is, except getting a mild case of delta covid on top of being double immunized with the RNA vaccine).

Actually it is clear. If you had a previous strain you'er twice as likely to catch delta than a vaccinated person. For those who got delta their natural immunity will not last as long as the vaccine which is why people who decide they want to get vaccinated after they had delta and now see the light are told the get vaccinated 90 days later.

Pedestrian Aug 16, 2021 2:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 9366020)
Actually it is clear. If you had a previous strain you'er twice as likely to catch delta than a vaccinated person. For those who got delta their natural immunity will not last as long as the vaccine which is why people who decide they want to get vaccinated after they had delta and now see the light are told the get vaccinated 90 days later.

There are some studies that show that. I don't think most scientists consider them conclusive even though there's absolutely no reason for those who've been infected to rely on that and not get vaccinated. But you need to site the studies you are relying on anyway to have credibility and preferably in the original peer-reviewed journals, not some third hand MM account.

These pages are too full of unscientific opinion and "journalism" by reporters who don't know what they are talking about.

Here's the study we need (peer reviewed): Natural delta infection vs full vaccination. And we need a clinical study--actual reinfection/breakthrough infection--not anibody titers because that ignores cellular immunity, the significance of which remains uncertain with this virus.

10023 Aug 16, 2021 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9365955)
Places that were too restrictive earlier in the pandemic aren't going to fare too well with variants. Not much natural immunity within the community (Oregon).

That’s what I meant. If infection rates are low because of vaccination then that’s a different matter (but wouldn’t necessarily be the case with children, who aren’t being vaccinated anywhere yet).

But all of the places bragging about how low their case rates were last winter and spring were just shitty places to be during Covid.

10023 Aug 16, 2021 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dktshb (Post 9366020)
Actually it is clear. If you had a previous strain you'er twice as likely to catch delta than a vaccinated person. For those who got delta their natural immunity will not last as long as the vaccine which is why people who decide they want to get vaccinated after they had delta and now see the light are told the get vaccinated 90 days later.

But let’s be honest, for people with healthy immune systems, the “natural immunity” from past infection will be more than enough to prevent a serious case later. That’s why proof of recovery from infection is accepted as part of the “green pass” being used by European countries.

Yuri Aug 16, 2021 6:57 PM

This weekend, São Paulo (city), vaccinated over 500k people, including the first doses of everybody between 18-21 y/o.

98% of eligible people were vaccinated. Exceptionally high numbers.

scruffytraveller Aug 17, 2021 6:02 AM

What's next after Delta? What's next after developing vaccines? Another booster shots for another discovered variants? I'm tired of hearing this news.

craigs Aug 17, 2021 6:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffytraveller (Post 9367485)
I'm tired of hearing this news.

Who cares?

Pedestrian Aug 17, 2021 6:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffytraveller (Post 9367485)
What's next after Delta? What's next after developing vaccines? Another booster shots for another discovered variants? I'm tired of hearing this news.

Hopefully there will be a new booster based on current predominant variants of the virus. And after that maybe you will have to get an annual shot like for the flu.

So what? Why is that a big deal. I walk across the street to CVS and get my flu shot sometime in the fall every year. While there I pick up some other stuff I usually need. It takes a few minutes. Why are you dramatizing it?

10023 Aug 17, 2021 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9367499)
Who cares?

Who cares about Delta? You can hide at home for as long as you like, but most of us are tired of this shit.

Covid is not going away. People will continue to die from it. It does not matter.

10023 Aug 17, 2021 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9367503)
Hopefully there will be a new booster based on current predominant variants of the virus. And after that maybe you will have to get an annual shot like for the flu.

So what? Why is that a big deal. I walk across the street to CVS and get my flu shot sometime in the fall every year. While there I pick up some other stuff I usually need. It takes a few minutes. Why are you dramatizing it?

That’s fine, as long as people expect that vaccination is the only reasonable step to take. There can be no more masks, no more social distancing, no more travel requirements.

And requirements to prove vaccination should not be in place for basic, everyday activities. Showing proof of vaccination to board a plane is one thing. It can’t be a requirement to go have a drink in a bar.

TWAK Aug 17, 2021 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffytraveller (Post 9367485)
What's next after Delta? What's next after developing vaccines? Another booster shots for another discovered variants? I'm tired of hearing this news.

The official post-COVID thread?
Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9367540)
That’s fine, as long as people expect that vaccination is the only reasonable step to take. There can be no more masks, no more social distancing, no more travel requirements.

And requirements to prove vaccination should not be in place for basic, everyday activities. Showing proof of vaccination to board a plane is one thing. It can’t be a requirement to go have a drink in a bar.

Well if you don't want that, I got some bad news for yah....
At least rural areas don't require it!

iheartthed Aug 17, 2021 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9367540)
And requirements to prove vaccination should not be in place for basic, everyday activities. Showing proof of vaccination to board a plane is one thing. It can’t be a requirement to go have a drink in a bar.

It seems perfectly reasonable to me during a public health emergency. It's better than the alternatives.

JManc Aug 17, 2021 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9367861)
It seems perfectly reasonable to me during a public health emergency. It's better than the alternatives.

I don't mind flashing my vaccine card IF the bar requires it but I do when it's required by the government, so far just NYC here in the US. Here in Texas, it's just the total opposite; the state is barring establishments from being able to require costumers show proof of vaccination upon entry. More government over reach.

C. Aug 17, 2021 5:28 PM

Hey! Has there been any news on potential lockdowns or curfews? Thinking specifically in Louisiana now that cases are surging.

craigs Aug 17, 2021 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9367538)
Who cares about Delta? You can hide at home for as long as you like, but most of us are tired of this shit.

Covid is not going away. People will continue to die from it. It does not matter.

"Hide at home?" I flew up to Oregon for a week and just got back the day before yesterday, dipshit.

COVID matters. What doesn't matter is some noob who 'doesn't want to hear' about that fact; what also doesn't matter is whatever some COVID-obsessed, pretentious, misanthropic twit thinks about any of this.

10023 Aug 17, 2021 10:01 PM

^ noob? What are you, some teenaged gamer dork?

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9367861)
It seems perfectly reasonable to me during a public health emergency. It's better than the alternatives.

We are no longer in a public health emergency.

One needs to be able to walk in and out of a bar, or several bars, with ease and without waiting at the door for a staff member, or there is no normal life. Same for shops and other businesses. That’s one of the things that distinguishes urban life from a cloistered suburban one, where you drive and park outside of a restaurant and that’s the one place you go that evening.

JManc Aug 17, 2021 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9368340)
^ noob? What are you, some teenaged gamer dork?


We are no longer in a public health emergency.

One needs to be able to walk in and out of a bar, or several bars, with ease and without waiting at the door for a staff member, or there is no normal life. Same for shops and other businesses. That’s one of the things that distinguishes urban life from a cloistered suburban one, where you drive and park outside of a restaurant and that’s the one place you go that evening.

Well, we actually are but the can is being kicked down the road as to how long it's going to drag on with new variants popping up and how much of a risk they pose even to those who are vaccinated. I feel like the hysteria is going to be perpetual. We will get a booster in a month or so and then new variant that could breakthrough that will emerge and we will revert to crisis mode. Rinse and repeat. Sooner or later, we will just have to live with this without the mandates and social distancing.

austlar1 Aug 17, 2021 10:32 PM

Fully vaccinated Texas governor Abbott now has covid. He's naturally getting all the good drugs and best care. No thoughts and prayers from me. Motherfucker should have worn a mask.

Pedestrian Aug 17, 2021 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9368355)
Well, we actually are but the can is being kicked down the road as to how long it's going to drag on with new variants popping up and how much of a risk they pose even to those who are vaccinated. I feel like the hysteria is going to be perpetual. We will get a booster in a month or so and then new variant that could breakthrough that will emerge and we will revert to crisis mode. Rinse and repeat. Sooner or later, we will just have to live with this without the mandates and social distancing.

I consider the booster that we may get soon just a delaying tactic. We need a new, reformulated vaccine now targeted either directly at the predominant delta and lambda variants or at proteins produced by stable parts of the viral genome that don't mutate as frequently or at both.

It's my understanding Pfizer is working on an updated version of its mRNA vaccine targeted at the new variants. Also, now that we can see how the virus is trying to evade existing vaccines, we may be able to make that more difficult, again by targeting other viral proteins that are stable even if not critical to viral function.

homebucket Aug 17, 2021 11:00 PM

Quote:

Mask mandate: LA County requiring face coverings at major outdoor events, like concerts, festivals

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- People attending major outdoor events in Los Angeles County will be required to wear a mask, regardless of vaccination status, under a new order issued by the county health department.

The order says those attending "outdoor mega-events" must wear a face covering at all times except when eating and drinking.

The new mandate is an addition to existing orders issued last month which require masks while entering most public indoor spaces, including major indoor events of 5,000 or more, as well as bars, restaurants and gyms.

The county had previously exempted outdoor mega events from that order.

An outdoor mega event is defined as a gathering of more than 10,000 people outdoors in one location, such as sporting events, marathons, festivals, concerts and car shows. The operators of the events are responsible for making sure patrons follow the mask rules, the county says.
https://abc7.com/la-county-mask-mand...ules/10957503/

Vlajos Aug 18, 2021 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by austlar1 (Post 9368379)
Fully vaccinated Texas governor Abbott now has covid. He's naturally getting all the good drugs and best care. No thoughts and prayers from me. Motherfucker should have worn a mask.

Most likely he has little to no symptoms. But carry on.

jd3189 Aug 18, 2021 12:51 AM

I could see COVID being an on and off issue for the remainder of this decade, being another thing we have to worry about along with the seasonal flu. As long as it becomes more similar to the common cold than Ebola, we’re good.

Kngkyle Aug 18, 2021 2:53 AM

Mask mandate being reinstated for Chicago starting this Friday. Applicable for all indoor public spaces, although no new capacity or distancing restrictions yet.

Justification being that new cases continue to rise, however both hospitalizations (-32% since last week) and deaths (-35%) are decreasing at the same time. Unclear how many of these positive tests are symptomatic vs not.

Current daily deaths are at 0.7 per 1 million residents. Daily hospitalizations are at 5 per 1 million residents. Daily cases around 150 per 1 million residents.

There's currently 66 ICU beds occupied with COVID patients out of a total capacity of 1,101 beds.

It was a nice few months of not having to deal with any covid restrictions here but now the media has successfully scared everyone back into submission. The gross miscalculation of risk continues.

craigs Aug 18, 2021 3:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368609)
Mask mandate being reinstated for Chicago starting this Friday. Applicable for all indoor public spaces, although no new capacity or distancing restrictions yet. . . . It was a nice few months of not having to deal with any covid restrictions here but now the media has successfully scared the vaccinated ultraliberals back into submission. The gross miscalculation of risk continues.

Would you have us believe that nearly two-thirds of Americans are "vaccinated ultraliberals?"

Because, in reality, polls show 64% support for local mask mandates overall.

Kngkyle Aug 18, 2021 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9368622)
Would you have us believe that nearly two-thirds of Americans are "vaccinated ultraliberals?"

Because, in reality, polls show 64% support for local mask mandates overall.

I edited my post since it was a bit too political for this thread.

However the point still stands. The media has successfully convinced a majority of people (as your poll shows) that the vaccine is not effective enough at reducing risk by itself and thus further mandates are necessary. This is a gross miscalculation of risk and is counterproductive to solving the actual problem of convincing the unvaccinated to get the very effective vaccine.

SIGSEGV Aug 18, 2021 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368637)
I edited my post since it was a bit too political for this thread.

However the point still stands. The media has successfully convinced a majority of people (as your poll shows) that the vaccine is not effective enough at reducing risk by itself and thus further mandates are necessary. This is a gross miscalculation of risk and is counterproductive to solving the actual problem of convincing the unvaccinated to get the very effective vaccine.



The "unvaccinated people must wear masks" signs don't work, unfortunately. anyway, most people are wearing masks inside anyway, regardless of the rule (and I'm required to at work when not alone in my office, despite a vaccination requirement for all students/staff, and on the train, so big difference this rule makes...).

Kngkyle Aug 18, 2021 3:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9368639)
The "unvaccinated people must wear masks" signs don't work, unfortunately. anyway, most people are wearing masks inside anyway, regardless of the rule (and I'm required to at work when not alone in my office, despite a vaccination requirement for all students/staff, and on the train, so big difference this rule makes...).

Yes, but unvaccinated people choosing not to wear a mask are only hurting themselves or others who have also made the decision to accept that risk. The only exception to this is if hospital capacity is threatened, which is the one justification I can accept for implementing capacity/mask/distancing requirements. Otherwise it's just counterproductive to solving the actual problem of people not getting vaccinated because it's acknowledging that the vaccine is not effective. It's also counterproductive at solving this the only other way possible - them actually getting antibodies from infection instead of the vaccine.

:shrug:

craigs Aug 18, 2021 3:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368655)
Yes, but unvaccinated people choosing not to wear a mask are only hurting themselves or others who have also made the decision to accept that risk.

I just spent a week at a lake house. Among our crew was a two-month old infant (cannot be vaccinated), a four year old girl (cannot be vaccinated), four healthy and vaccinated adults, and an elderly cancer survivor who is vaccinated but still at risk because of her compromised immune system. Not everyone who can get sick with the uncontrolled spread of COVID has 'made the decision to accept that risk.'

And the ones who have made the decision not to get vaccinated can go fuck themselves, fuck their feelings, and fuck their freedumbs.

SIGSEGV Aug 18, 2021 3:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368655)
Yes, but unvaccinated people choosing not to wear a mask are only hurting themselves or others who have also made the decision to accept that risk. The only exception to this is if hospital capacity is threatened, which is the one justification I can accept for implementing capacity/mask/distancing requirements. Otherwise it's just counterproductive to solving the actual problem of people not getting vaccinated because it's acknowledging that the vaccine is not effective. It's also counterproductive at solving this the only other way possible - them actually getting antibodies from infection instead of the vaccine.

:shrug:

hospital capacity is a lagging indicator, if you wait until it's jeopardized it's too late for mitigations already. I'm also hopeful there will be relatively few hospitalizations here (there is probably a large overlap between people who aren't getting vaccinated and people who already had COVID-19 here), but I assure you that Arwady et al are not making this decision for optics.

10023 Aug 18, 2021 4:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9368622)
Would you have us believe that nearly two-thirds of Americans are "vaccinated ultraliberals?"

Because, in reality, polls show 64% support for local mask mandates overall.

Then 64% of Americans can wear masks.

Ifactwo Aug 18, 2021 5:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9368662)
I just spent a week at a lake house. Among our crew was a two-month old infant (cannot be vaccinated), a four year old girl (cannot be vaccinated), four healthy and vaccinated adults, and an elderly cancer survivor who is vaccinated but still at risk because of her compromised immune system. Not everyone who can get sick with the uncontrolled spread of COVID has 'made the decision to accept that risk.'

And the ones who have made the decision not to get vaccinated can go fuck themselves, fuck their feelings, and fuck their freedumbs.

Hope they will come to their senses. Vaccines is about protecting most specially the vulnerable ones. I've seen a video of a two year old baby who died because of COVID. Parents are fully vaccinated but, still, precautions are needed.

JManc Aug 18, 2021 6:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ifactwo (Post 9368717)
Hope they will come to their senses. Vaccines is about protecting most specially the vulnerable ones. I've seen a video of a two year old baby who died because of COVID. Parents are fully vaccinated but, still, precautions are needed.

We're (USA) not going to achieve herd immunity and I think it's an unrealistic goal politicians need to come to terms with. I think medial and public health officials have already accepted this. Two year-olds dying from Covid or bribes from county public health officials aren't going to convince fence sitters to change their minds especially now with talk of a booster.

Pedestrian Aug 18, 2021 6:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 9368740)
We're (USA) not going to achieve herd immunity and I think it's an unrealistic goal politicians need to come to terms with. I think medial and public health officials have already accepted this. Two year-olds dying from Covid or bribes from county public health officials aren't going to convince fence sitters to change their minds especially now with talk of a booster.

Disagree. Herd immunity doesn’t just come from vaccination. It also comes from infection. With a virus as contagious as the delta strain of SARS-CoV-2, you either get vaccinated or you eventually get infected and sometimes both which probably gives the strongest immunity of all. This is why I agree with Scott Gottlieb that we may be seeing the last “wave”. It may well leave herd immunity in its wake.

Herd immunity does not mean no more cases. It means no more mass outbreaks with packed hospitals. There will still be cases just as there are still cases of mumps and measles, and the virus will take advantage if, over time, a population of vulnerables who aren’t vaccinated and have never had it accumulates. But, again, no more large waves like January and now. It happened with previous pandemics even in the absence of vaccines.

craigs Aug 18, 2021 6:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 9368702)
Then 64% of Americans can wear masks.

Oh, I forgot--Lord Pretend literally opposes democracy.

Nope. No mask, no service. Maskholes can go fuck themselves.

JManc Aug 18, 2021 6:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9368745)
Disagree. Herd immunity doesn’t just come from vaccination. It also comes from infection. With a virus as contagious as the delta strain of SARS-CoV-2, you either get vaccinated or you eventually get infected and sometimes both which probably gives the strongest immunity of all. This is why I agree with Scott Gottlieb that we may be seeing the last “wave”. It may well leave herd immunity in its wake.

Herd immunity does not mean no more cases. It means no more mass outbreaks with packed hospitals. There will still be cases just as there are still cases of mumps and measles, and the virus will take advantage if, over time, a population of vulnerables who aren’t vaccinated and have never had it accumulates. But, again, no more large waves like January and now. It happened with previous pandemics even in the absence of vaccines.

This is one instance I want to be proven wrong.

10023 Aug 18, 2021 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9368751)
Oh, I forgot--Lord Pretend literally opposes democracy.

Nope. No mask, no service. Maskholes can go fuck themselves.

Clearly you don’t understand the concept of “tyranny of the majority”, which is one of the things the Founders were trying to avoid when they made the United States a republic and not a pure democracy.

If 64% of Americans opposed gay marriage, should their view prevail upon everyone? Or should they just not marry members of the same sex? Thought so.

Crawford Aug 18, 2021 11:49 AM

It isn't a big deal to wear masks, but I'm annoyed at the constant moving of goalposts. I thought vaxxing would be the path to normalcy.

Sane people in first world countries are vaxxed by this point. The risk to children is infinitesimal, and their vax will be ready in a few weeks. Why do we need to endlessly mask and social distance? Unhealthy vax skeptics have made their choice; F them.

I'm back in office two days a week, with masks and social distancing. It's absurd, and there's no productivity. We're all vaxxed and relatively young/healthy. At what point do we just let people die already? We're gonna be doing this idiocy for another year, I fear.

10023 Aug 18, 2021 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9368788)
It isn't a big deal to wear masks, but I'm annoyed at the constant moving of goalposts. I thought vaxxing would be the path to normalcy.

Sane people in first world countries are vaxxed by this point. The risk to children is infinitesimal, and their vax will be ready in a few weeks. Why do we need to endlessly mask and social distance? Unhealthy vax skeptics have made their choice; F them.

^ Exactly.

What is the endgame here? What do the people in favor of masks think will be different in 2022 or 2023?

But I also think masks are a bigger deal than some people like to admit. Western culture is different from East Asian culture, and even there people have never worn masks universally, only when they feel they might be sick. It is generally less distant and I prefer that (it’s one of the reasons that I vastly prefer Southern Europe to Northern Europe, in fact). Not being able to see half a face, or smiles, throws off the normal means through which we form bonds with strangers.

And I also have a really hard time understanding what people are saying through a mask (which isn’t surprising, given that I can’t even understand my wife when her head is turned away from me).

SIGSEGV Aug 18, 2021 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 9368788)
It isn't a big deal to wear masks, but I'm annoyed at the constant moving of goalposts. I thought vaxxing would be the path to normalcy.

Sane people in first world countries are vaxxed by this point. The risk to children is infinitesimal, and their vax will be ready in a few weeks. Why do we need to endlessly mask and social distance? Unhealthy vax skeptics have made their choice; F them.

I'm back in office two days a week, with masks and social distancing. It's absurd, and there's no productivity. We're all vaxxed and relatively young/healthy. At what point do we just let people die already? We're gonna be doing this idiocy for another year, I fear.

The alternative is for hospitals to stop admitting vaccine-eligible but unvaccinated COVID patients, if you value being able to go to a hospital if something happens to you. I don't think that's a palatable alternative...

Kngkyle Aug 18, 2021 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9368667)
hospital capacity is a lagging indicator, if you wait until it's jeopardized it's too late for mitigations already. I'm also hopeful there will be relatively few hospitalizations here (there is probably a large overlap between people who aren't getting vaccinated and people who already had COVID-19 here), but I assure you that Arwady et al are not making this decision for optics.

Hospitalizations are indeed a lagging indicator but the trends in Chicago are suggesting something else is going on because the significant decreases in hospitalizations and deaths should not be happening.

I'm not sure what it is, so this is complete speculation, but perhaps a significant chunk of the new 'cases' are asymptomatic individuals getting tested to have proof of a negative test for travel/work/school/event reasons?

https://i.ibb.co/qFn3N1P/covidsnapshot.png

SIGSEGV Aug 18, 2021 2:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368890)
Hospitalizations are indeed a lagging indicator but the trends in Chicago are suggesting something else is going on because the significant decreases in hospitalizations and deaths should not be happening.

I'm not sure what it is, so this is complete speculation, but perhaps a significant chunk of the new 'cases' are asymptomatic individuals getting tested to have proof of a negative test for travel/work/school/event reasons?

https://i.ibb.co/qFn3N1P/covidsnapshot.png

could very well be.... I've had 5 tests for travel in the last few months.

Kngkyle Aug 18, 2021 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9368863)
The alternative is for hospitals to stop admitting vaccine-eligible but unvaccinated COVID patients, if you value being able to go to a hospital if something happens to you. I don't think that's a palatable alternative...

There is no threat to hospital capacity on the horizon for Chicago though, so why the new mandates? It seems like delta might have already burned through the city since hospitalizations peaked at 30ish per day a few weeks ago and have since dropped to single digits. For comparison purposes the initial 2020 peak was 200 hospitalizations per day and the winter peak was 150 per day. So we're implementing new mandates with single digit hospitalizations? :shrug:

This just shows that it's a purely political move as a result of the media hysteria. Nothing more.

the urban politician Aug 18, 2021 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368890)
Hospitalizations are indeed a lagging indicator but the trends in Chicago are suggesting something else is going on because the significant decreases in hospitalizations and deaths should not be happening.

^ Why not?

2020 called, it wants its COVID fears back.

We have a vaccine, you know.....

the urban politician Aug 18, 2021 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368908)
There is no threat to hospital capacity on the horizon for Chicago though, so why the new mandates? It seems like delta might have already burned through the city since hospitalizations peaked at 30ish per day a few weeks ago and have since dropped to single digits. For comparison purposes the initial 2020 peak was 200 hospitalizations per day and the winter peak was 150 per day. So we're implementing new mandates with single digit hospitalizations? :shrug:

This just shows that it's a purely political move as a result of the media hysteria. Nothing more.

:tup: Now we're talking.

Moving goal posts. Moving goal posts. Moving goal posts.

Our leaders have lost track of why they initially got into the business of controlling people's lives and commerce in March 2020. To preserve hospital capacity they got their hands in, and now they don't want to get their hands out.

And the subset of people who have an authoratarian-porn element to their personality are loving every second of it and want more. They've been waiting for this all of their lives. Particularly socially awkward and physically unattractive people who welcome the benefit & security of wearing masks everywhere.

For astonishingly handsome people like myself, mask wearing is like kryptonite for Superman :(

photoLith Aug 18, 2021 3:03 PM

Fucking Pittsburgh is talking about having another pointless mask mandate again. Looks like I’ll be doing all my dining and shopping outside city limits again.

SIGSEGV Aug 18, 2021 5:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kngkyle (Post 9368908)
There is no threat to hospital capacity on the horizon for Chicago though, so why the new mandates? It seems like delta might have already burned through the city since hospitalizations peaked at 30ish per day a few weeks ago and have since dropped to single digits. For comparison purposes the initial 2020 peak was 200 hospitalizations per day and the winter peak was 150 per day. So we're implementing new mandates with single digit hospitalizations? :shrug:

This just shows that it's a purely political move as a result of the media hysteria. Nothing more.

There is certainly a chance of a threat, if not necessarily a guarantee, with case counts increasing. A mask mandate on Friday won't have an effect on hospitalizations until 1-2 weeks after that. If we see hospitalization rates rise next week then we'll be happy to have intervened. Otherwise, it'll be clear it was not necessary and can be revoked after a few weeks, no big deal. Better to unnecessarily slightly inconvenience people than to end up with flooded hospitals because of not being able to perfectly predict the future

JManc Aug 18, 2021 6:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 9369147)
There is certainly a chance of a threat, if not necessarily a guarantee, with case counts increasing. A mask mandate on Friday won't have an effect on hospitalizations until 1-2 weeks after that. If we see hospitalization rates rise next week then we'll be happy to have intervened. Otherwise, it'll be clear it was not necessary and can be revoked after a few weeks, no big deal. Better to unnecessarily slightly inconvenience people than to end up with flooded hospitals because of not being able to perfectly predict the future

I don't think that is a compelling enough reason. There either is or isn't a threat. Case counts are rising all over the place but that doesn't mean Covid patients will be lined up and down Michigan Ave.


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