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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

suburbanite Jun 15, 2020 1:27 PM

I don't understand how Florida hasn't been devastated yet given the demographics and apparent lack of general concern. At first there were reports of warmer weather helping slow the spread, but it doesn't seem to be helping Brazil that much.

JManc Jun 15, 2020 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8951606)
The restaurants that I care about would be full to capacity if only they were allowed to do so.

And you know this...how? Here Texas where freedom comes first or else, people are staying home despite businesses being open and the types of restaurants 'you care about' are hurting.

hauntedheadnc Jun 15, 2020 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8951959)
I don't understand how Florida hasn't been devastated yet given the demographics and apparent lack of general concern. At first there were reports of warmer weather helping slow the spread, but it doesn't seem to be helping Brazil that much.

Or North Carolina, which is recording up to 1500 new cases per day, or South Carolina with its 800 new cases per day. It's hot as balls here.

iheartthed Jun 15, 2020 2:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8951959)
I don't understand how Florida hasn't been devastated yet given the demographics and apparent lack of general concern. At first there were reports of warmer weather helping slow the spread, but it doesn't seem to be helping Brazil that much.

It's just getting started. Miami shut down early so that slowed the wave a lot, but they never actually stopped the first wave.

eschaton Jun 15, 2020 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8951751)
Really? NE/Midwest were (and still are, to a great extent) still shut down, while South/West (excluding Pacific) were never totally shut down and opened much earlier. Also, the virus already burned through the hardest hit areas. The sickest people in the worst affected areas are already dead.

I mean, in the Northeast Corridor, basically everything is still shut down, and I can't remember the last time I saw someone not wearing a mask indoors. In contrast, my parents are in Florida, and they say no one is wearing a mask indoors anywhere, really. They're in Naples, and say it's as if the pandemic never existed. Also doesn't help that they're in a conservative, elderly, white bubble of retired Midwesterners who tend to lean strongly Trump.

To a certain degree there's a correlation between states opening up early and the new wave, but it's not 1-1.

1. California is having a second wave now, and they did a pretty good job early on. Nevada and Oregon are also spiking now.

2 Despite never really locking down (and having a spike related to meat processing plants back in April/May) the plains states aren't really showing any signs of a major wave.

3. Texas and Florida look quite bad right now, and were states that reopened early. But Georgia also reopened early, and isn't really seeing the same rapid increases as its neighbors.

Some people are suggesting the wave in AZ and the South relates to air conditioning. People in the Northeast/Midwest are out of the house more, but staying outside - and COVID-19 doesn't appear to spread well outside. It does spread well in climate-controlled buildings however. That does not explain the spike on the West Coast however.

SteveD Jun 15, 2020 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 8952030)
It's just getting started. Miami shut down early so that slowed the wave a lot, but they never actually stopped the first wave.

Plus, not unlike Georgia, Florida has been monkeying around with the numbers to make them the least onerous and most favorable they possibly can.

L41A Jun 15, 2020 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8951959)
I don't understand how Florida hasn't been devastated yet given the demographics and apparent lack of general concern. At first there were reports of warmer weather helping slow the spread, but it doesn't seem to be helping Brazil that much.

It is the Fall going into Winter in Brazil / Southern Hemisphere.

suburbanite Jun 15, 2020 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L41A (Post 8952060)
It is the Fall going into Winter in Brazil / Southern Hemisphere.

Ya and it's still probably as hot in Rio as it is in Miami.

eschaton Jun 15, 2020 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L41A (Post 8952060)
It is the Fall going into Winter in Brazil / Southern Hemisphere.

Per capita, the worst-hit parts of Brazil are in the Amazon Basin and other areas right around the equator.

Crawford Jun 15, 2020 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 8952039)
Some people are suggesting the wave in AZ and the South relates to air conditioning. People in the Northeast/Midwest are out of the house more, but staying outside - and COVID-19 doesn't appear to spread well outside. It does spread well in climate-controlled buildings however. That does not explain the spike on the West Coast however.

The West Coast seems to have opened much earlier than the Northeast, though. I believe Hollywood reopened last week; in NY they're talking about studios opening in Fall. Restaurants in CA have been opened for at least outdoor dining for weeks, I believe; in NY still no date, though we're hearing early July (June 22 would be the absolute earliest for Phase 2). So it isn't surprising that the West Coast has had a mini-spike.

L41A Jun 15, 2020 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 8952068)
Ya and it's still probably as hot in Rio as it is in Miami.

Point is that it is the cooler seasons in Brazil. Rio doesn't appear to be as hot as Miami is now. And Sao Paulo is even cooler.

Epidemiologists always said that when we were in January/February/March in the Northern Hemisphere that the Southern Hemisphere may get a wave when their cooler months begin.

Y'all go ahead though. It's interesting how some of y'all contradict yourself (sometimes in your same post) then try to stretch, push, twist, turn to make it make sense. I just made my occasional observation.

L41A Jun 15, 2020 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 8952073)
Per capita, the worst-hit parts of Brazil are in the Amazon Basin and other areas right around the equator.

Could/maybe true about the worst-hit areas per capita in Brazil and I won't deny/refute it.

But I am very deliberate in my communication. I know that in general (irregardless of being near the equator), the Southern Hemisphere is generally more temperate than Northern Hemisphere.

My point in general is that when making comparisons more careful consideration should be given to create reasoned conclusions - and that epidemiologists stated/hypothesized that the rates would rise in the Southern Hemisphere which didn't really fit what the original post implied.

But y'all carry on.

the urban politician Jun 15, 2020 4:12 PM

I am having great difficulty filling many of my apartments in some of my prime north side properties.

I keep slashing rents and still no takers.

The rental market in Chicago is very soft right now.

Obviously this is due to Covid

craigs Jun 15, 2020 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8952078)
The West Coast seems to have opened much earlier than the Northeast, though. I believe Hollywood reopened last week; in NY they're talking about studios opening in Fall. Restaurants in CA have been opened for at least outdoor dining for weeks, I believe; in NY still no date, though we're hearing early July (June 22 would be the absolute earliest for Phase 2). So it isn't surprising that the West Coast has had a mini-spike.

California is opening by county, not statewide. In rural areas restaurants have been open for a couple weeks but are only allowed to operate at 25-50% of max. In SF, restaurants opened today with the same restrictions. I'm not sure about today's status, but I was in Los Angeles late last week and almost every restaurant was still closed to indoor dining. I did notice some al fresco dining in Malibu and Beverly Hills, but generally everything was still boarded up and, if open, to-go only.

mrnyc Jun 16, 2020 5:20 AM

the post says the lockdown is over, time for ny to stop being slobs and re-up the fashion game:


https://nypost.com/2020/06/15/lockdo...ng-like-slobs/

eschaton Jun 16, 2020 1:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8952536)
California is opening by county, not statewide. In rural areas restaurants have been open for a couple weeks but are only allowed to operate at 25-50% of max. In SF, restaurants opened today with the same restrictions. I'm not sure about today's status, but I was in Los Angeles late last week and almost every restaurant was still closed to indoor dining. I did notice some al fresco dining in Malibu and Beverly Hills, but generally everything was still boarded up and, if open, to-go only.

In Cali, it does look like cases are flat in LA and most of the Bay Area. It's the remainder of California that's doing increasingly poorly.

austlar1 Jun 16, 2020 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 8953021)
In Cali, it does look like cases are flat in LA and most of the Bay Area. It's the remainder of California that's doing increasingly poorly.

Hmmmm?? http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/med.../locations.htm

craigs Jun 16, 2020 8:21 PM

LA County has seen record numbers of new daily infections. The Westside was mostly boarded up when I was there late last week. I only saw people dining al fresco in Beverly Hills and Malibu, and even in those areas, most restaurants were still closed.

mrnyc Jun 16, 2020 11:33 PM

this massive mural is in the queens museum parking lot. he died.

more:
https://www.6sqft.com/a-giant-mural-...from-covid-19/



https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...uz-mural-3.jpg

https://imgs.6sqft.com/wp-content/up...uz-mural-4.jpg

iheartthed Jun 17, 2020 8:26 PM

New York City to enter phase 2 of reopening on Monday, June 22. There had been some concern that it would be pushed back a week:

Quote:

As part of Phase 2, restaurants and bars can offer outdoor dining, and professional services, administrative support, real estate rental and leasing, and in-store retail will be allowed to reopen.

https://abc7ny.com/cuomo-vs-de-blasi...n-nyc/6252213/

SignalHillHiker Jun 17, 2020 9:50 PM

We seem to have plateaued for now at 261 cases, three deaths.

We're moving to the least restrictive phase on June 25, which is as open as we'll get until there's a vaccine.

https://i.postimg.cc/WbTyc1QL/Capture.png

Which means the following (we're currently in Level 3, but - unless there is a case of unknown origin between now and then, we'll move to level 2 on the 25th):

https://i.postimg.cc/FFZkFhPX/Capture.png

And the City is implementing a pedestrian mall on our main downtown drag for the summer to try to save the businesses down there.

https://i.postimg.cc/sfpLLhH4/Capture2.png

https://i.postimg.cc/zGZGrMnR/Capture.png

hauntedheadnc Jun 18, 2020 1:04 PM

In my neck of the woods, cases are rising in all of the state's bigger towns and cities, the city of Raleigh is making masks mandatory in public, the state is considering doing the same, and eight people from West Virginia tested positive for COVID after a trip to Myrtle Beach. Elsewhere in SC, Greenville, an hour south of me, is that state's new epicenter for the disease.

A bright spot though... Hendersonville, where I grew up, and in the next county south of Asheville, couldn't hold a Pride festival and instead held a Pride parade where drag queens drove down Church Street and then up Main Street, much to the delight of all.

SIGSEGV Jun 19, 2020 2:35 AM

IO theater is permanently closing. That's too bad, but I'm sure they'll be replaced after this is all over.

hauntedheadnc Jun 19, 2020 12:44 PM

Charlotte brewery, two restaurants close after workers test positive for COVID-19
By Catherine Muccigrosso

Quote:

A Plaza Midwood area brewery, a South End restaurant and an Italian restaurant have all temporarily closed after employees tested positive for the novel coronavirus.

Bruce Moffett of Moffet Restaurant Group decided to temporarily close his Italian restaurant, Stagioni on Providence Road, after a worker tested positive for COVID-19, according to a press release Thursday.

“The employee did not have any direct contact with guests,” the release said.

The worker was asymptomatic, but Moffett made the decision out of “an abundance of caution and to prioritize the health and safety of … staff and guests.”

The Stagioni staff was sent home and tested for COVID-19 despite showing no symptoms, the release said.

The restaurant is being cleaned and sanitized and is expected to reopen June 23.
Source.

Meanwhile...

25- to 49-year-olds make up 40% of Buncombe County COVID-19 cases

10023 Jun 19, 2020 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc (Post 8956308)
Charlotte brewery, two restaurants close after workers test positive for COVID-19
By Catherine Muccigrosso


Source.

Meanwhile...

25- to 49-year-olds make up 40% of Buncombe County COVID-19 cases

I’m pulling my hair out with all these articles about young people among cases. Of course young people can be infected, and they might even have symptoms and feel like shit for a week, but that doesn’t justify lockdowns or social distancing.

eschaton Jun 19, 2020 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956377)
I’m pulling my hair out with all these articles about young people among cases. Of course young people can be infected, and they might even have symptoms and feel like shit for a week, but that doesn’t justify lockdowns or social distancing.

Considering the U.S. does not have a robust test-and-trace system, and certainly isn't forcibly confining young people who are positive to their homes, what is the alternative?

Vlajos Jun 19, 2020 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956377)
I’m pulling my hair out with all these articles about young people among cases. Of course young people can be infected, and they might even have symptoms and feel like shit for a week, but that doesn’t justify lockdowns or social distancing.

It's simply scare mongering at this point. The numbers are beyond clear. The old and the sickly are high risk. The focus should be on keeping those people safe.

10023 Jun 19, 2020 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 8956389)
Considering the U.S. does not have a robust test-and-trace system, and certainly isn't forcibly confining young people who are positive to their homes, what is the alternative?

Let young people get it, build herd immunity, and be done with this.

Most people will get it eventually, before there’s a vaccine that can be widely distributed. The young are not generally at risk, don’t require hospitalization, and will not overwhelm the healthcare system. The more that get it before the predicted second wave the better, because more people with antibodies will actually reduce the severity of said second wave.

Older people should continue to be in a more strict lockdown, like France and Italy had in March/April, while all of this happens.

mousquet Jun 19, 2020 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956449)
Older people should continue to be in a more strict lockdown, like France and Italy had in March/April, while all of this happens.

Italy has had a notorious demographic problem (which is a pain to me, because I like their country very much), but France's fertility rate and youth are still the most dynamic of Western Europe on average, year after year... I don't fear anything much. My country can get over anything. It is strong in spite of all our ugly faults.

Look at figures and see how pitiful the UK has been in the crisis. It is worse than Spain and Italy.

Mon grand, s'il faut te remettre à ta place, moi je le ferai sans pitiè, hein. I don't care about your queen. I don't even know about her story.
Mais tu crois que t'es qui ? Un seigneur sorti d'on ne sait où ? T'es rien de plus que n'importe quel autre frère ici.
Voilà.

SteveD Jun 19, 2020 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956449)
Let young people get it, build herd immunity, and be done with this.

Most people will get it eventually, before there’s a vaccine that can be widely distributed. The young are not generally at risk, don’t require hospitalization, and will not overwhelm the healthcare system. The more that get it before the predicted second wave the better, because more people with antibodies will actually reduce the severity of said second wave.

Older people should continue to be in a more strict lockdown, like France and Italy had in March/April, while all of this happens.

Meanwhile, right now, today, we're still in the first wave, and right now, today, Florida is spiking and running out of ICU beds. Florida has a Cult45 MAGA governor just like GA.

mhays Jun 19, 2020 4:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956449)
Let young people get it, build herd immunity, and be done with this.

Most people will get it eventually, before there’s a vaccine that can be widely distributed. The young are not generally at risk, don’t require hospitalization, and will not overwhelm the healthcare system. The more that get it before the predicted second wave the better, because more people with antibodies will actually reduce the severity of said second wave.

Older people should continue to be in a more strict lockdown, like France and Italy had in March/April, while all of this happens.

I guess if you start with your misconceptions, then why not go for it. But we have to start with what we know instead.

You're like a recurring advertisement in why basic Covid education is important.

10023 Jun 20, 2020 9:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet (Post 8956465)
Italy has had a notorious demographic problem (which is a pain to me, because I like their country very much), but France's fertility rate and youth are still the most dynamic of Western Europe on average, year after year... I don't fear anything much. My country can get over anything. It is strong in spite of all our ugly faults.

Look at figures and see how pitiful the UK has been in the crisis. It is worse than Spain and Italy.

Mon grand, s'il faut te remettre à ta place, moi je le ferai sans pitiè, hein. I don't care about your queen. I don't even know about her story.
Mais tu crois que t'es qui ? Un seigneur sorti d'on ne sait où ? T'es rien de plus que n'importe quel autre frère ici.
Voilà.

Has the UK been pitiful?

There have been more deaths per capita, as everywhere mostly very elderly people, but we have not been subjected to such a strict lockdown as France or Spain. That’s a good trade off in my view.

10023 Jun 20, 2020 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8956564)
I guess if you start with your misconceptions, then why not go for it. But we have to start with what we know instead.

You're like a recurring advertisement in why basic Covid education is important.

What have I said that’s incorrect?

The UK has had less than 400 deaths of people under 40, and almost all of those had serious pre-existing chronic health conditions.

eschaton Jun 20, 2020 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957351)
What have I said that’s incorrect?

The UK has had less than 400 deaths of people under 40, and almost all of those had serious pre-existing chronic health conditions.

I simply don't see how you manage to selectively lockdown older people, unless perhaps you go the route that was being mooted in Israel where you intentionally infect volunteers in the armed forces, keep them isolated until they have cleared the virus, and then use them as a pandemic labor force.

10023 Jun 20, 2020 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschaton (Post 8957367)
I simply don't see how you manage to selectively lockdown older people, unless perhaps you go the route that was being mooted in Israel where you intentionally infect volunteers in the armed forces, keep them isolated until they have cleared the virus, and then use them as a pandemic labor force.

You give different guidance to old people and young people, and businesses like restaurants and bars are allowed to have a maximum age for entry just as they have a minimum age of entry today.

the urban politician Jun 20, 2020 2:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet (Post 8956465)
Italy has had a notorious demographic problem (which is a pain to me, because I like their country very much), but France's fertility rate and youth are still the most dynamic of Western Europe on average, year after year... I don't fear anything much. My country can get over anything. It is strong in spite of all our ugly faults.

Look at figures and see how pitiful the UK has been in the crisis. It is worse than Spain and Italy.

Mon grand, s'il faut te remettre à ta place, moi je le ferai sans pitiè, hein. I don't care about your queen. I don't even know about her story.
Mais tu crois que t'es qui ? Un seigneur sorti d'on ne sait où ? T'es rien de plus que n'importe quel autre frère ici.
Voilà.

You guys keep criticizing the UK and the US over the pandemic response.

The truth is, more top-down, administrative-heavy societies (Continental Europe, China, etc) that tolerate more central authority are naturally going to respond better to a pandemic. That’s just a strength within that type of system.

UK and US have a culture of weaker central Government and a stronger private sector. Make no mistake, this type of system has a natural disadvantage when you are trying to lockdown and get everybody to fall in line (as they say, trying to “herd cats”).

But let’s not forget that when this pandemic is finally over, everybody will once again be looking to open, liberal places like the US and UK to bring prosperity and innovation back.

No more looking down our noses at the nations that made today’s world essentially what it is, despite some of their inherent flaws.

Encolpius Jun 20, 2020 2:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957351)
What have I said that’s incorrect?

The UK has had less than 400 deaths of people under 40, and almost all of those had serious pre-existing chronic health conditions.

10023, even if you have relatively mild symptoms COVID may permanently damage your sense of smell and taste.

How are you, of all people, not more frightened of this? Is the whole food snob schtick just an act?

the urban politician Jun 20, 2020 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encolpius (Post 8957403)
10023, even if you have relatively mild symptoms COVID may permanently damage your sense of smell and taste.

How are you, of all people, not more frightened of this? Is the whole food snob schtick just an act?

I don’t ever recall 10023 saying that people shouldn’t try to avoid getting sick.

I mean, his point is clear as day if anybody will spend two seconds processing it. The response to the pandemic has been WAY too dramatic and is destroying lives every single day. A virus that makes you lose the sense of smell (temporarily in a majority of situations) would not be worthy of mandating a complete lockdown everywhere.

mhays Jun 20, 2020 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957351)
What have I said that’s incorrect?

The UK has had less than 400 deaths of people under 40, and almost all of those had serious pre-existing chronic health conditions.

Oh my god, where to start. How about the impossibility of separating the "young" from the more highly at risk. And the resulting devastation when that separation doesn't happen.

You seem to think that guy-on-street logic should trump actual knowledge.

Vlajos Jun 20, 2020 4:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8957450)
Oh my god, where to start. How about the impossibility of separating the "young" from the more highly at risk. And the resulting devastation when that separation doesn't happen.

You seem to think that guy-on-street logic should trump actual knowledge.

It's impossible to separate people? That's news to me.

iheartthed Jun 20, 2020 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encolpius (Post 8957403)
10023, even if you have relatively mild symptoms COVID may permanently damage your sense of smell and taste.

How are you, of all people, not more frightened of this? Is the whole food snob schtick just an act?

He's being deliberately obtuse. There are enough examples of younger people suffering serious complications that no one at any age should take for granted that they will survive an infection without complications.

There also has not been a medical consensus on whether people who were previously infected become immune to reinfection. In other words, herd immunity might not even be possible.

Quote:

Doctors at Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago announced Thursday they've performed the first successful double-lung transplant on a COVID-19 patient in the United States.

The woman in her 20s was otherwise healthy but developed a severe case of COVID-19 that resulted in hospitalization, says Dr. Ankit Bharat, Northwestern's chief of thoracic surgery.

For two months, she was in the intensive care unit on a ventilator and another machine, known as ECMO, that pumps and oxygenates blood outside of the body. Although she eventually cleared the coronavirus from her body, she remained in severe condition.

By early June, Bharat says the patient's lungs showed irreversible damage. She was at risk of further decline and began showing signs that her kidneys and liver were starting to fail with no improvement in her lung function.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...med-in-chicago

JManc Jun 20, 2020 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957369)
You give different guidance to old people and young people, and businesses like restaurants and bars are allowed to have a maximum age for entry just as they have a minimum age of entry today.

LOL, No they're not. That's straight up age discrimination and very illegal. You are as bad as Dumpsters downplaying the virus and refusing to wear a mask because of freedumb.

Again, you're focusing on deaths but I don't know about you but even without the risk of dying, I don't want to risk getting severely ill if I don't have to.

craigs Jun 20, 2020 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8957414)
I don’t ever recall 10023 saying that people shouldn’t try to avoid getting sick.

Then you have an Alzheimers-grade memory. From the very same page:

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8956449)
Let young people get it, build herd immunity, and be done with this.


mhays Jun 20, 2020 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlajos (Post 8957458)
It's impossible to separate people? That's news to me.

Yes it is.

First there's the issue of deciding who's at risk and who isn't. Many potential "co-morbidities" are unknown until after death. Existing Covid cases are unknown initially. But let's bypass this one...everyone over 60 or with a potential second condition goes behind a wall, separated by your choice of 6 feet (somewhat effective) or 20 feet (better) to stay out of the droplet/vapor zone.

Next, how do you get supplies to tens of millions of people, via a society where most other people will get it at some point? There's the risk at point of transfer, as well as the unprecedented logistical problem. Of course these supplies will need to be paid for since the quarantined mostly don't have incomes.

After that, how do you maintain these practices without errors? The average person isn't bright, and half the people are stupider than that (it's said). People will leave their quarantines, and they'll do it into an endemic world.

Some will do that out of necessity. How do our old people get medical attention, with each living in their own residence? Or do you expect them to live in large resettlements, where any break in the wall means thousands of people at a time are at risk?

The reason the "wall off old people" idea isn't debated outside of fan boards is that even a minute's thought shows it to be competely unworkable.

10023 Jun 21, 2020 3:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8957493)
LOL, No they're not. That's straight up age discrimination and very illegal. You are as bad as Dumpsters downplaying the virus and refusing to wear a mask because of freedumb.

Again, you're focusing on deaths but I don't know about you but even without the risk of dying, I don't want to risk getting severely ill if I don't have to.

And you don’t have to! You can stay the fuck at home.

As for the age discrimination point, it’s no more illegal than telling us we have to stay at home, or ordering legitimate businesses to close. None of this is normal or legal. I will do what I want, and if I’m fined I won’t pay it.

the urban politician Jun 21, 2020 3:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8957616)
Then you have an Alzheimers-grade memory. From the very same page:

Obviously one should interpret that as “let young people go about their life and in the process build herd immunity”, which doesn’t necessarily mean that young people should actually make an effort to get sick.

craigs Jun 21, 2020 5:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8957902)
Obviously one should interpret that as “let young people go about their life and in the process build herd immunity”, which doesn’t necessarily mean that young people should actually make an effort to get sick.

That is not obvious at all. Care to make it so?

craigs Jun 21, 2020 5:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8957895)
You can stay the fuck at home.

So can you. Why should anyone choose your pleasure over others' survival?

10023 Jun 21, 2020 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 8957960)
So can you. Why should anyone choose your pleasure over others' survival?

Because others are not at risk from my going out unless they make it so. And they’re not really at risk anyway, because this virus isn’t nearly as deadly as was once feared.

the urban politician Jun 21, 2020 1:46 PM

Just so I’m clear.....

A great number of people living in liberal Western societies (including many on this forum) are okay with having the Government force the closure of everything, and essentially force you to stay at home against your will.

As opposed to:

Strong public messaging highly recommending that people stay at home, especially if they are elderly or have health problems, as well as requiring a mask in public.

It almost seems like some of you here, who for your entire lives have lived in a liberal Western democracy, are just so ready to throw away what you have taken for granted for your entire lives.

I mean, yes—China is doing this Covid response thing better than we are. Let’s admit defeat. We can’t beat them at this. But take a step back and ask yourself this: do you want to have their kind of society or the kind that we currently enjoy? You cannot have both.


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