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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Busy Bee Jan 9, 2007 2:36 AM

A terminus at Old Orchard should (in theory) urbanize the immediate area more. The OO area needs to transition into a pedestrian oriented district with hidden parking and real sidewalks with real people on them, and a real streetwall with people, I don't know, actually living above furniture stores and coffeeshops, and not one with parking moats and a real lack of folks after mall hours end.

Since the first time I visited Old Orchard, I've felt it could be a great little urban district, even though it has historically contributed to downtown retail decline in Skokie and Evanston. And about Old Orchard being one the first shopping malls or whatever, I'm not convinced that people are in love with it that much, and if Westfield ever agreed, could be redeveloped into a very good sized live/work/shop mixed use complex encompassing the entire current boundries with a Yellow Line terminal right in the middle—now that would be a destination.

Urban style development would spread to the immediate area as developers would wisen up to benefits of TOD and the underlying lifestyle desires of North Shore residents, exemplified in the demand (and success) of a development like Old Orchard Woods.

the urban politician Jan 9, 2007 3:34 AM

I'd rather see such money, which is hard to come by, devoted towards building a subway system that connects River North/Streeterville to the West Loop.

It's about a gillion times more densely populated and such a project would be a much better investment.

All of this 'extend such and such line to Ford City or Old Orchard mall' just doesn't make sense to me at all. They're malls--they have tons of parking. People will drive to them.

Build transit in Chicago's urban core first and foremost. That's where it's needed and used the most, and that's where there are still a lot of deficiencies.

Bring the world into the center--invest in the center. Lets not start having people living downtown start taking trains to malls in the suburbs. For Christs sake it's Chicago not Washington DC!

nomarandlee Jan 9, 2007 4:29 AM

Good points Busybee. It would be nice if Westfield and CTA worked in lockstep with one another to make a transit oriented lifestyle center such as the one you propose. Hopefully Westfield will wait for the CTA plans and build around it as the centerpiece of its redevelopment plans. If the two work together it could really a forefront example of new urban suburban development in the country. Hopefully Westfield isn't too locked into any preconceived ideas about OO redevelopment they already may have and they can think a bit out of the box.

I would agre with UP's point about not trying to strech out the CTA to outer limits. And I have doubts on if it will really increase substantial commuter ridership but 100 million seems like a relative bargain for tranist extension this day in age.

Norsider Jan 9, 2007 5:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 2554292)
I'd rather see such money, which is hard to come by, devoted towards building a subway system that connects River North/Streeterville to the West Loop.

It's about a gillion times more densely populated and such a project would be a much better investment.

All of this 'extend such and such line to Ford City or Old Orchard mall' just doesn't make sense to me at all. They're malls--they have tons of parking. People will drive to them.

Build transit in Chicago's urban core first and foremost. That's where it's needed and used the most, and that's where there are still a lot of deficiencies.

Bring the world into the center--invest in the center. Lets not start having people living downtown start taking trains to malls in the suburbs. For Christs sake it's Chicago not Washington DC!


AMEN!!!!!


And please for the love of pete stop with the "hmm, that price seems high to me" nonsense. Like any of us would know.

Chicago Shawn Jan 9, 2007 5:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 2554292)
I'd rather see such money, which is hard to come by, devoted towards building a subway system that connects River North/Streeterville to the West Loop.

It's about a gillion times more densely populated and such a project would be a much better investment.

All of this 'extend such and such line to Ford City or Old Orchard mall' just doesn't make sense to me at all. They're malls--they have tons of parking. People will drive to them.

Build transit in Chicago's urban core first and foremost. That's where it's needed and used the most, and that's where there are still a lot of deficiencies.

Bring the world into the center--invest in the center. Lets not start having people living downtown start taking trains to malls in the suburbs. For Christs sake it's Chicago not Washington DC!

I'm going to dissagre with you there. Sure people drive to them to shop, but the malls have a couple thousand employees, and quite a few of them take public transit to work, more likley would if better service was provided. Plus don't forget, if the station is placed on the west side of the Edens, the cheapest option right on the North Shore ROW, it will be right next to Optima's Old Orchard Woods
https://extranet.emporis.com/files/t.../11/501983.jpg
This would become one gaint TOD. Stanley Tigerman's Hollucost museum is to be located next door too. I head out there at least once a month to take pictures of Old Orchard Woods, and the buses (which there are plenty of them out here) take on a good load of passengers, and yes, some of them use the CTA to go shopping. If the cost is really only $100 milion, then I believe Skokie should throw in half, since they will benifit the most. Any opperating cost increases from the CTA running on the extension can be recouped by triming back existing bus service to Old Orchard Mall. CTA and Pace is the only public transit Skokie has, its a captive market not in compitition with Metra, and is ripe for additional density as Skokie is starting to see quite a few substational infill projects.

ChiArchie Jan 9, 2007 7:13 AM

I think it's silly to think that all the money is coming from the same pocket.

We are talking about $100 million, that's money that will have to come from the Feds. I don't think Skokie or the CTA really has a way to get those funds without Congress.

Money for a proposed Circle Line or an expansion to the Red, Orange or Yellow lines will not come from the same bill in Congress. Plus, it's not like the construction will start in this decade. So to start construction on the Yellow Line by 2017 there has to be a paper trail started now.

Hopefully, by 2017 the Circle Line will be a few years old. You know before the Summer Games of 2016.

RockfordSoxFan Jan 9, 2007 5:49 PM

IMO, I think the best way to go for financing is private and public funds. If Westfield property owners, city of Skokie, the CTA can all chip in, then the state if IL, and the Feds pick up the rest. There is your best bet to get it done, and get it done quickly.

Taft Jan 9, 2007 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 2554292)
I'd rather see such money, which is hard to come by, devoted towards building a subway system that connects River North/Streeterville to the West Loop.

It's about a gillion times more densely populated and such a project would be a much better investment.

All of this 'extend such and such line to Ford City or Old Orchard mall' just doesn't make sense to me at all. They're malls--they have tons of parking. People will drive to them.

Build transit in Chicago's urban core first and foremost. That's where it's needed and used the most, and that's where there are still a lot of deficiencies.

Bring the world into the center--invest in the center. Lets not start having people living downtown start taking trains to malls in the suburbs. For Christs sake it's Chicago not Washington DC!

I agree 100%.

CTA coverage for day to day usage in the city is crap. By allowing for more non-commuting trips, the CTA is extending its rider base considerably. This keeps ridership up during off-peak hours and brings in revenue they sorely need.

Extending lines might up ridership, but it is over a limited geographic area and during limited hours. By upgrading and promoting the system as a way to get around town, we can build a sustainable system that isn't crying to the state every few years to avoid a transit meltdown.

Taft

Marcu Jan 9, 2007 6:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taft (Post 2555462)
I agree 100%.

Extending lines might up ridership, but it is over a limited geographic area and during limited hours. By upgrading and promoting the system as a way to get around town, we can build a sustainable system that isn't crying to the state every few years to avoid a transit meltdown.

Taft

At the same time, getting more of the suburban population involved in transit ridership might help the political fight in Springfield.

Latoso Jan 9, 2007 6:53 PM

Let's stop fighting over what's better and get ALL the projects done. I'm tired of settling for half-assed compromises. By 2016 everyone in chicago should be within 8 blocks of an "L" line and no more than 3 blocks in the central area. Who's with me?

trvlr70 Jan 9, 2007 6:58 PM

What is Daley general position in regards to the CTA? He seems to be so involved in most of Chicago's institutions, but here seems to have a laissez faire attitude. Why no strongarming?

trvlr70 Jan 9, 2007 7:45 PM

United Won!!
 
I just heard that UAL won the bid for the China flight. UA will serve Washington D.C. to Beijing!

Congrats UAL!

VivaLFuego Jan 9, 2007 8:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trvlr70 (Post 2555522)
What is Daley general position in regards to the CTA? He seems to be so involved in most of Chicago's institutions, but here seems to have a laissez faire attitude. Why no strongarming?

Why do you think CTA is so vehemently pursuing the Airport Direct/Express service? Daley has been wanting something like that since the late 90s I think.

Taft Jan 9, 2007 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcu (Post 2555498)
At the same time, getting more of the suburban population involved in transit ridership might help the political fight in Springfield.

I guess you can't discount the political implications. Hell, if building a few extended CTA lines to the suburbs means better funding for existing infrastructure and new projects, I'd be for it.

Quote:

Let's stop fighting over what's better and get ALL the projects done. I'm tired of settling for half-assed compromises. By 2016 everyone in chicago should be within 8 blocks of an "L" line and no more than 3 blocks in the central area. Who's with me?
As long as mass transit agencies have only the scraps left over from asphalt's gluttonous meals, the infighting will continue. It's amazing our priorities haven't changed with the gridlock strangling most urban areas, but they have not. Such is life...

Taft

Taft Jan 9, 2007 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 2555670)
Why do you think CTA is so vehemently pursuing the Airport Direct/Express service? Daley has been wanting something like that since the late 90s I think.

Given we are the only American city I can think of that has service to both its airports, you'd think there would be more important issues at hand. Unless this thing was a major revenue generator (again, we come back to cash...), I do question the wisdom of such efforts. Don't get me wrong, it'd be cool. But a central circulator/streeterville line would be frickin' kick ass. It's all about priorities...

Taft

jjk1103 Jan 10, 2007 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latoso (Post 2555507)
Let's stop fighting over what's better and get ALL the projects done. I'm tired of settling for half-assed compromises. By 2016 everyone in chicago should be within 8 blocks of an "L" line and no more than 3 blocks in the central area. Who's with me?

....you have my $1 !!!!!!!!!!! :notacrook:

VivaLFuego Jan 10, 2007 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taft (Post 2555680)
Given we are the only American city I can think of that has service to both its airports, you'd think there would be more important issues at hand. Unless this thing was a major revenue generator (again, we come back to cash...), I do question the wisdom of such efforts. Don't get me wrong, it'd be cool. But a central circulator/streeterville line would be frickin' kick ass. It's all about priorities...

Taft

That wasn't my point (I fully agree with you on priorities), I meant who do you think is advocating such a project?

Taft Jan 10, 2007 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego (Post 2557344)
That wasn't my point (I fully agree with you on priorities), I meant who do you think is advocating such a project?

Ah. Sorry.

This is the downside to having a benevolent dictator. Sure, the city is doing better than ever, but we lose street vendors and decent CTA priorities in the process. Oh well...

Taft

Chicago Shawn Jan 10, 2007 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taft (Post 2555673)
As long as mass transit agencies have only the scraps left over from asphalt's gluttonous meals, the infighting will continue. It's amazing our priorities haven't changed with the gridlock strangling most urban areas, but they have not. Such is life...

Taft

I love that line. Perfect example is the Blue Line, with a slow zone beyond Jeff Park in place right after the derailment, and still in place 6 months later; meanwhile that entire stretch of the Kennedy has been completly resurfaced, and that job was completed 3 months ago. So damn pathetic. :hell: Most folks believe the solution to traffic is wider and wider roads, they have no concept of induced traffic. So yes, we need to convince suburbanites and still plenty of city residents why expanson of public transit helps everyone.

pip Jan 10, 2007 8:44 PM

Big service cuts ahead for North Side CTA riders
(Crain’s) — Downtown commuters are about to receive another huge jolt from the delay-plagued Chicago Transit Authority: sharp, two-year cuts in rush hour service on the North Side’s Red, Brown and Purple L Lines.

Under plans detailed for the first time on Tuesday, the CTA this spring will, one by one, stop using the four tracks which serve the North Side L lines. The stoppage will enable the CTA to build new tracks to accommodate widening of L platforms at the Belmont and Fullerton stops and complete other work as part of the modernization of the Brown Line.

But while the work goes on, the CTA will be without one of the four tracks on its main north/south trunk line. Since those tracks already are used to capacity during rush hour, something will have to go—trains that already are filled during rush hours.

“Overall travel time will significantly increase” for most Red, Brown and Purple Line commuters, at least initially and especially during evening rush periods, CTA officials announced at a monthly board meeting Tuesday.

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While the CTA hopes to add some trains back after any initial glitches are resolved, rush hour capacity will be cut about 20% overall, with the number of trains reduced by up to 40% between 5:30 and 6:30 p.m.

The cuts are worse in the evening rush hours because the first track to be taken out of service and reconstructed is the most easterly of the four. That means that during the evening, when most trains are headed north, all Red Line and Brown Line and Purple Line trains will be using just one track from Armitage north to the Clark Junction between Belmont and Addison.

The work is scheduled to begin no earlier than April 2 and to continue until the Brown Line job is finished, not anticipated until December, 2009.

CTA President Frank Kruesi urged commuters, who have had to cope with a variety of other CTA woes in the past year, to focus on the long-term gain of getting a new Brown Line that will be able to run longer trains serving brand-new stations. “There’s no way to avoid some pain,” he said, but the payoff will be worth it.

Officials said they intend to beef up bus routes serving the same neighborhoods during the L work, and emphasized that the work will not begin until modernization of the Dan Ryan leg of the Red Line is completed.

In another effort to speed service, Purple Line trains will begin running counter-clockwise around the Loop L structure, using the inside track. That should speed train switching and service, officials said.

Officials also urged commuters to study alternative CTA routes to get to work before the new project begins, and asked for patience, particularly in the first few days after the first track goes out of service.

The earlier Brown Line project was hit with huge cost overruns, many stemming from the CTA’s decision to keep the line in service during construction rather than shutting it for two years, as was done in earlier reconstruction of portions of the Green and Blue Lines.





I have read many people complain about lack of funding for the CTA but I do have to ask do you really think the CTA is responsible enough to handle the money.

The CTA is a disgrace. The trains are packed during rush hour. I have to wait for several trains to go by even to squish on the train that will crawl making me wonder if walking is faster. And now they are going to cut the number of trains by 40% during rush hour. Jesus.

I have had it with the CTA. The Republican suburbs are right. Time for the CTA to go. I do not blame them one bit for not wanting to fund the CTA. It screws up everything. How much over budget and behind schedule is the Brown Line reconstruction so far. It has barely begun. Why through money at this organization?


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