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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Busy Bee Aug 12, 2022 6:28 PM

Mercury Green, Croydon Cream & Swamp Holly Orange...

Quite the lineup... I saw them at RiotFest... Amazing...:P

Steely Dan Aug 12, 2022 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9701093)
The previous green paint on the old 6000's always looked so classic.

https://images.cf.nycsubway.org/imag.../img_14718.jpg
_

Few things can make me more instantly nostalgic about the Chicago of my childhood than the old green & whites.

A classic look indeed!

Randomguy34 Aug 16, 2022 8:33 PM

High Speed Rail Alliance hosted a webinar with Amtrak to discuss the Union Station Access grant. They mention a couple new details, especially in the Q&A portion. Amtrak is planning a concourse and waiting area at Harrison St for the mail platforms, with a potential 2nd entrance at Van Buren St. This would mean you wouldn't have to go through Union Station to access the platforms. Ideally the Metra trains would use the mail platforms for through running between O'Hare and McCormick Place. Amtrak has started discussions with Indiana to increase service and speeds to Indianapolis by using the South Shore Line's West Lake extension.

Video Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7i77mPAcg

BrinChi Aug 17, 2022 4:18 PM

In light of the RLE project, I listened to the below recently. I love this Not Just Bikes guy who moved to Netherlands to raise his family in a walkable community. I'm all for building equitable transit, but it reminds me that to get Americans on board with transit, we need to ensure the transit is useful. Even though I live right next to a green line stop on the south side, when I visit friends in Rogers Park I drive because it'll take at least twice as long, even with LSD traffic through downtown. And I'm someone who prefers taking transit when possible.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000576109913

ardecila Aug 17, 2022 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomguy34 (Post 9704056)
Amtrak is planning a concourse and waiting area at Harrison St for the mail platforms, with a potential 2nd entrance at Van Buren St. This would mean you wouldn't have to go through Union Station to access the platforms.

Yeah this is interesting. I'm curious how this will integrate architecturally with the OPO.

Also I'm not wild about creating a whole satellite station that is disconnected from Union. It's the same mistake that Amtrak made at Moynihan in NYC, but made worse by the fact that OPO is owned by a private landlord and the relationship could turn hostile in the future. Good underground/Pedway connections are essential to make this work, but very expensive to build. Van Buren and Harrison are also awful locations for pickup/dropoff.

Operationally my guess is that the new OPO platforms (I wonder which politician they will name it after) will end up used for regional/corridor services and maybe a McCormick Place service.

MAC123 Aug 17, 2022 5:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9704777)
It's the same mistake that Amtrak made at Moynihan in NYC, .

What are you talking about?

Steely Dan Aug 17, 2022 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegoatman (Post 9704698)
Also would like to see some TOD around the yellow line stations.

or how about even just more in-fill stops on the yellow line the first place?

crawford, dodge, and asbury all seem like some pretty low-hanging fruit.

Rizzo Aug 18, 2022 1:14 AM

I think reopening the Dodge station would be reasonable since it could boost density along Howard and still is far enough from overlapping with metra.

Anybody ever bike ride on the Skokie valley trail? It’s an excellent way to travel north-south from the city to suburbs. It goes by a lot of these projects. There’s plans to complete the missing pieces for a path between Waukegan and Chicago

ardecila Aug 18, 2022 6:20 AM

If Evanston can get transit money, I think they will focus on rebuilding the Purple Line. The current city government doesn’t seem very interested in an Asbury station, seems like that has been shelved.

Steely Dan Aug 18, 2022 1:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9705564)
If Evanston can get transit money, I think they will focus on rebuilding the Purple Line. The current city government doesn’t seem very interested in an Asbury station, seems like that has been shelved.

it is interesting though that the yellow line runs for nearly 2 miles across the entire southside of evanston but without a single stop in it. i'm guesing the municipality spends zero money on the trench ROW and its numerous overpasses, so maybe it is a situation of "if we don't get involved, then we're not on the hook for anything".

that said, a stop at crawford at least would still make a bunch of sense, and that's over in skokie. i wonder if they would ever entertain adding another in-fill station at an obvious spot like crawford to increase the yellow line's utility? it's not wildly dense or urban around crawford, but the tracts around a potential station there still have a respectable street-car suburbia densities in the 6,000 - 9,000 ppsm range.

BrinChi Aug 18, 2022 6:30 PM

Make sure everyone signs the petition: https://hsrail.salsalabs.org/chicago...ion/index.html

ardecila Aug 18, 2022 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAC123 (Post 9704839)
What are you talking about?

They created a station with two sets of facilities for commuter and intercity passengers. Turf wars. Transferring between the two is harder than it needs to be, and LIRR passengers are not really welcome to wait in Moynihan etc.

At Union Station, the Amtrak trains will likely end up split, with the LD trains loading from the traditional station and the regional corridor trains loading from the new station. Transferring from a Wolverine train to Metra will likely requiring exiting the station, walking 2-3 blocks at the surface level, then going back down into Union Station.

Mister Uptempo Aug 18, 2022 11:34 PM

The Amtrak rep doing the presentation and Q & A openly admitted that he was not the best person to discuss plans for Union Station. He is the Senior Manager for State-Supported Routes.

In the Union Station Master Plan, there is a provision to install emergency exits from the repurposed mail platforms that would open up onto the plaza of the current main post office on the south side of Harrison. Perhaps they decided to allow entry as well as exiting?

He also mentions the plans are in really up in the air ATM. He mentioned possibly allowing access from Van Buren instead, or possibly from both Van Buren and Harrison.

He made no mention, one way or the other, about repurposing the steam tunnels, in Union Station's basement level, to access the mail platforms from below, as suggested in the Master Plan. Is that idea dead and buried, or could the proposed Harrison entrance lead down to the waiting area in the steam tunnels?

The renewed mail platforms will be high-level. If Metra, at some point, wishes to use the platforms and through tracks to provide RER-type services or O'Hare to McCormick service, how will they do that with the current gallery cars or the on-order Alstom Coradia cars, which are both designed for low-level platforms?

ETA - It is possible, I guess, to redesign the Coradia cars to provide a high-level entrance at the ends of the cars, which is the mid-level of the interior. Then Coradias would have to be used for RER and O'Hare-McCormick. You lose revenue seating and go to a lot of trouble and expense for a single stop, but whatever.

Mister Uptempo Aug 19, 2022 2:02 AM

Metra to convert locomotives to battery power
 
Quote:

Metra's board yesterday approved a plan to convert up to six of the Chicago commuter railroad's oldest diesel locomotives to zero-emission battery power.

The railroad's contract with Progress Rail Services Corp. calls for a base order of three locomotives, with options for three additional units, Metra officials said in a press release. The total cost for all six conversions — which will be completed at Progress Rail's facility in Patterson, Georgia — is $34.6 million. The base order is expected to take three-and-a-half years to complete.

------------------------SNIP----------------------------

Metra plans to test the new locomotives — which will have an estimated range of 150 miles per charge — on the Rock Island Line. Charging stations will be designed later and placed in the main yard and at a yet-to-be-determined outlying point.
https://i.imgur.com/lTLxYFJ.png

Story Link

left of center Aug 19, 2022 2:22 AM

Wow, interesting. I wonder how quiet those engines will run. The effect on air quality should also be noticeable. The cost savings on fuel alone makes this a worthy investment. Hopefully they can electrify the entire fleet quickly.

From what I recall (and please correct me if I'm wrong), when Metra took over the old interurban lines, many of those lines were originally electrified (overheard catenary wire) and then years later were converted to diesel. It seems like we are doing a 180 by going back to electric power.

Busy Bee Aug 19, 2022 2:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 9706421)

From what I recall (and please correct me if I'm wrong), when Metra took over the old interurban lines, many of those lines were originally electrified (overheard catenary wire) and then years later were converted to diesel.


This is incorrect. There were no electrified corridors other than the Illinois Central which is now Metra Electric. No other lines had overhead electrification and none of them were interurban RR lines. The SSL is still the SSL and neither the right of way of the CA&E or the North Shore Line are used by current Metra services.

Mister Uptempo Aug 19, 2022 3:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by left of center (Post 9706421)
Wow, interesting. I wonder how quiet those engines will run. The effect on air quality should also be noticeable. The cost savings on fuel alone makes this a worthy investment. Hopefully they can electrify the entire fleet quickly.

I'm far more concerned about acceleration, pulling a load of 10 or 12 packed gallery cars, as well cold weather performance.

ardecila Aug 19, 2022 1:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo (Post 9706321)
The Amtrak rep doing the presentation and Q & A openly admitted that he was not the best person to discuss plans for Union Station. He is the Senior Manager for State-Supported Routes.

I guess I can reserve judgment until the plans are completed (hopefully Goettsch is involved so we get decent architecture). However, the way the mail platforms are situated makes it very difficult to provide a connection to the existing Union Station facilities.

And decisionmakers in Chicago don't really prioritize connections between nearby stations or different operators. They just dump you on the sidewalk with no signage and expect you to figure it out. So many missed opportunities for connections around Chicago and they neglect it every time - rail lines are apparently to be used for a one-seat ride to downtown, and nothing else matters.

Quote:

He made no mention, one way or the other, about repurposing the steam tunnels, in Union Station's basement level, to access the mail platforms from below, as suggested in the Master Plan. Is that idea dead and buried, or could the proposed Harrison entrance lead down to the waiting area in the steam tunnels?
I think it would be very difficult or impossible to retrofit the sub-level steam tunnels given fire codes and accessibility/ADA issues. They were never meant to handle crowds of people passing through.

Quote:

The renewed mail platforms will be high-level. If Metra, at some point, wishes to use the platforms and through tracks to provide RER-type services or O'Hare to McCormick service, how will they do that with the current gallery cars or the on-order Alstom Coradia cars, which are both designed for low-level platforms?
There are multiple issues with a ORD-McCormick service, rolling stock is just one issue among many. Honestly the whole idea is bonkers, McCormick has a handful of events through the year and the rest of the time is totally empty. But we are somehow gonna let the needs of this huge anti-urban complex and out-of-town conventioneers dictate transit planning for the region. If they want to extend to Hyde Park or Kensington and orient CTA bus service to the express train stops, *that* would be interesting in terms of providing for the needs of actual Chicagoans.

k1052 Aug 19, 2022 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Uptempo (Post 9706466)
I'm far more concerned about acceleration, pulling a load of 10 or 12 packed gallery cars, as well cold weather performance.

Bet they will only run paired with diesels. This is likely to end up a waste of money that should be spent electrifying the line or at a minimum just buying SC-44s.

Mr Downtown Aug 20, 2022 3:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9706692)
And decisionmakers in Chicago don't really prioritize connections between nearby stations or different operators. They just dump you on the sidewalk with no signage and expect you to figure it out. So many missed opportunities for connections around Chicago and they neglect it every time

Any specific examples come to mind? The guy who handles interagency signage for RTA is a friend. He's managed to get lots of signage put up over the last decade, including introducing the lettered bus stops at all the downtown terminals.

OhioGuy Aug 20, 2022 1:04 PM

Maybe this is better for the transportation forum, but with the talk of Skokie and the yellow line, has Skokie ever indicated recently whether there's still any interest/work being done in evaluating extending the yellow line to Old Orchard? Not saying it's of high importance, but in the past it was sort of under consideration. Would one of the North Side's main shopping malls and nearby Niles High School be decent enough potential ridership anchors to justify perhaps a single track extension to a terminus at Old Orchard Road (though I also recall some resistance to an extension involving the high school and its parking lots)? Maybe some opportunity for transit-oriented redevelopment of the mall parking lots along Old Orchard Road for housing that can blend into the outdoor shopping mall?

k1052 Aug 20, 2022 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioGuy (Post 9707615)
Maybe this is better for the transportation forum, but with the talk of Skokie and the yellow line, has Skokie ever indicated recently whether there's still any interest/work being done in evaluating extending the yellow line to Old Orchard? Not saying it's of high importance, but in the past it was sort of under consideration. Would one of the North Side's main shopping malls and nearby Niles High School be decent enough potential ridership anchors to justify perhaps a single track extension to a terminus at Old Orchard Road (though I also recall some resistance to an extension involving the high school and its parking lots)? Maybe some opportunity for transit-oriented redevelopment of the mall parking lots along Old Orchard Road for housing that can blend into the outdoor shopping mall?

The CTA abandoned this expansion amidst strong local opposition IIRC. Unless something has changed they're not going to spend a dime going back to try again.

Busy Bee Aug 20, 2022 10:56 PM

Extract the uniquely American phenomenon of resisting public transit connections over fears of crime from "undesirables", a go-to code word so historical it's practically baseball, it probably would have been accomplished.

Randomguy34 Aug 21, 2022 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9706692)
If they want to extend to Hyde Park or Kensington and orient CTA bus service to the express train stops, *that* would be interesting in terms of providing for the needs of actual Chicagoans.

There actually was a study done a few years back by Cook County on the ridership potential if the MED ran 15 minute, all day frequency from Harvey, IL to O'Hare, using Union Station. Corresponding to scenario 7 (page 34) of the study, Metra's daily ridership would grow by 23,400 riders. Extrapolate that to a full year, that would be over 7 million rides! Even if Metra only ran hourly service, there could still be immense ridership gains.

Study: https://www.cookcountyil.gov/sites/g...scms-final.pdf

ardecila Aug 22, 2022 4:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 9707481)
Any specific examples come to mind? The guy who handles interagency signage for RTA is a friend. He's managed to get lots of signage put up over the last decade, including introducing the lettered bus stops at all the downtown terminals.

Yeah the signage at least has gotten better.

Mr Downtown Aug 22, 2022 5:20 PM

So what were you thinking of when you wrote
Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9706692)
And decisionmakers in Chicago don't really prioritize connections between nearby stations or different operators. They just dump you on the sidewalk with no signage and expect you to figure it out. So many missed opportunities for connections around Chicago and they neglect it every time

The much-lamented Northwest Passage? An underground moving sidewalk from Millennium to Washington/Wabash?

Randomguy34 Aug 22, 2022 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 9708847)
So what were you thinking of when you wrote

The much-lamented Northwest Passage? An underground moving sidewalk from Millennium to Washington/Wabash?

Just cause there's now better signage doesn't mean transfers are smooth. For starters, there used to be a passage way from the Clinton Green/Pink Line station to Ogilvie but that was torn down and hasn't been rebuilt. There's still no pedestrian passage way from Clinton Blue Line to Union Station. Going from the downtown MED/SSL platforms to a CTA platform is at least a five minute walk through multiple different concourses. If you want to get to River North or Streeterville and you're taking Metra, you'll need to take an additional bus, or you gotta power through by walking or biking.

London is the only other city I can think of that has a similar problem with transferring between their suburban/regional rail service and rapid transit lines. Your tube line could have a station at Euston, King's Cross, or Paddington, and it'll still take 5 minutes traversing multiple passage ways to just barely catch your connecting train. That's not even including the out-of-station transfers which are free, but several blocks separate your connections.

Chicago's transfer situation isn't quite as dire as London's, but some short-term solutions to make it more tolerable would be to have a unified fare system to encourage transfers between transit systems and increasing bus frequencies to take riders to other parts of downtown. More mid-term solutions would include reopening the Clinton Green/Pink Line passage way to Ogilvie. Fortunately, in the webinar I posted, Amtrak has expressed interest in establishing a pedestrian connection from Union Station to Clinton Blue Line. After those projects are completed, then we can start talking about long-term/futuristic visions.

Mister Uptempo Aug 22, 2022 6:29 PM

CTA Red Line extension project clears environmental review

Quote:

The Federal Transit Administration and the Federal Highway Administration last week published the Final Environmental Impact Statement (EIS)/Record of Decision (ROD) regarding the Chicago Transit Authority’s Red Line Extension project.

The milestone advances the project to the next step to begin construction on the extension, which would extend Chicago’s most-traveled rail line from the existing terminal at 95th Street to 130th Street, CTA officials said in a press release.

The 5.6-mile extension will include four new stations and a modernized, efficient rail-car storage yard and maintenance facility.

The full story here

Link to the CTA's Red Line Extension FEIS page here

Direct link to the Red Line Extension FEIS/ROD report here

If all goes according to plan, CTA projects the opening of the Red Line Extension to occur sometime in 2029.

ardecila Aug 22, 2022 7:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 9708847)
So what were you thinking of when you wrote


The much-lamented Northwest Passage? An underground moving sidewalk from Millennium to Washington/Wabash?

The Pedway still generally sucks with signage, yes (unless something's changed in the last year or two). Not easy or intuitive to go from Millennium to CTA lines. I wouldn't ask it to be a moving sidewalk.

I don't think the Northwest Passage was particularly useful except as a way to avoid street people when West Loop was a rough area, so I wouldn't bring it back. A truly useful connection would require a new concourse at Level +2 above the Ogilvie platforms, but I would love to see a special treatment of the Clinton sidewalks at grade level to emphasize the connection from the existing suburban concourse.

O'Hare's CONRAC has poor signage to get to Metra. Many neighborhood Metra stations have incredibly poor signage - damaged, vandalized, or outdated (some even refer to the legacy railroads still). CTA bus connections are poorly marked at these stations, but so is everything else.

SIGSEGV Aug 22, 2022 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9708978)
The Pedway still generally sucks with signage, yes (unless something's changed in the last year or two). Not easy or intuitive to go from Millennium to CTA lines. I wouldn't ask it to be a moving sidewalk.

I don't think the Northwest Passage was particularly useful except as a way to avoid street people when West Loop was a rough area, so I wouldn't bring it back. A truly useful connection would require a new concourse at Level +2 above the Ogilvie platforms, but I would love to see a special treatment of the Clinton sidewalks at grade level to emphasize the connection from the existing suburban concourse.

O'Hare's CONRAC has poor signage to get to Metra. Many neighborhood Metra stations have incredibly poor signage - damaged, vandalized, or outdated (some even refer to the legacy railroads still). CTA bus connections are poorly marked at these stations, but so is everything else.

The pedway signage was actually dramatically improved this year for getting from Millenium to the CTA stations. I'll try to remember to take a picture tomorrow...

nomarandlee Aug 28, 2022 5:01 PM

Knowing the history and philosophy of Metra it is way too much to expect them to piggyback on this wave in the next few years. Maybe a 2075 introduction rate if all goes well?

The only silver lining to pin any hopes on perhaps is that the recent new train set contracts are with Alstom? if I remember correctly?

Quote:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/c...ins/index.html
The world's first hydrogen-powered passenger trains are here
Julia Buckley, CNN • Updated 24th August 2022

.......Fourteen hydrogen trains powered by fuel cell propulsion will exclusively run on the route in Bremervörde, Lower Saxony. The 93 million euro ($92.3 million) deal has been struck by state subsidiary Landesnahverkehrsgesellschaft Niedersachsen (LVNG), the owners of the railway, and Alstom, builders of the Coradia iLint trains. The Elbe-Weser Railways and Transport Company (EVB), which will operate the trains, and gas and engineering company Linde, are also part of the project.
The trains, five of which which debut Wednesday, will gradually replace the 15 diesel trains that currently run on the route, with all 14 running exclusively by the end of the year. Just 1 kilo of hydrogen fuel can do the same as around 4.5 kilos of diesel.
The trains are emissions-free and low-noise, with only steam and condensed water issuing from the exhaust. They have a range of 1,000 kilometers (621 miles), meaning they can run for an entire day on the network on a single tank of hydrogen. A hydrogen filling station has already been established on the route. The trains can go at a maximum of 140 kph, or 87mph, though regular speeds on the line are much less, between 80-120 kph........
..

ardecila Aug 28, 2022 8:53 PM

This is not a solution to pin the future on. The German trains are just an experiment, and it could be several decades until the technology is "ready" - that is, commercially viable and low or no emission.

Most hydrogen produced now is "gray" hydrogen that is produced from natural gas and the process emits tons of CO2 into the air, so you've got to deal with all the environmental impacts of fracking and oil spills even if there are no emissions at the point of use. The proposed solution to this is "blue" hydrogen where they just pump the CO2 into the ground instead of the air. Just like the "clean coal" myth. In theory you can produce "green" hydrogen from water via electrolysis, and you can get the electricity from renewable sources like solar or wind, but nobody has figured out how to do this cost-effectively.

Compare this to electrification the traditional way, with overhead wires. This is expensive up front, but it relies on mature technology that is 100 years old. And the actual source of energy can be anything, so even if you run it off natural gas or coal power plants initially, it will decarbonize over time as the grid switches over to renewables (or nuclear).

In fact Germany is continuing to electrify its busier lines, the only reason hydrogen made sense for this particular line is because it doesn't run frequently enough for electrification to make sense financially. I think the threshold in Europe is usually around 2 trains per direction per hour, so a 30-minute headway is when electrification makes sense. Metra is very close to that threshold. (Germany is also in a pickle because it relies on Russia for most of its oil&gas, so they need a fast way to cut back on their diesel use.)

ardecila Aug 28, 2022 9:09 PM

That being said, the (sketchy) new proposal for KRM commuter rail up in Wisconsin is proposing to use hydrogen trains. They would probably need to be from Alstom, since nobody else is making them yet.

I'm 95% sure that KRM project will die yet again, but there's a slim chance the Biden administration decides to send them a big check - Dems love to build rail projects in red states, like Obama and all of his streetcar lines.

Randomguy34 Sep 4, 2022 12:26 AM

The MED has been pretty packed during off-peak this week. Too bad Metra will likely respond by adding more rush hour service

VKChaz Sep 17, 2022 6:58 PM

FYI:

APTA ridership report for 2nd quarter available, comparing ridership across systems

https://www.apta.com/research-techni...ership-report/

OhioGuy Sep 24, 2022 1:13 AM

Concrete on the new flyover still making headlines since it hasn't been fixed yet:

Video Link

Busy Bee Sep 24, 2022 1:23 AM

The engineer and the contractor really should be tarred and feathered.

ardecila Sep 24, 2022 7:04 PM

Seems like mostly a cosmetic issue, and the complaints are being pushed by people who opposed the flyover in the first place. I don't think there have been any injuries or property damage.

I'm guessing the contractor doesn't know which spots were grouted and which were not, so they are waiting for the spalling to run its course before doing a one-time fix. I am surprised that Walsh/Fluor hasn't put up netting, though. Seems like an simple way to protect against liability.

WrightCONCEPT Oct 3, 2022 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9740700)
Seems like mostly a cosmetic issue, and the complaints are being pushed by people who opposed the flyover in the first place. I don't think there have been any injuries or property damage.

I'm guessing the contractor doesn't know which spots were grouted and which were not, so they are waiting for the spalling to run its course before doing a one-time fix. I am surprised that Walsh/Fluor hasn't put up netting, though. Seems like an simple way to protect against liability.

Concrete doing that seems like there was something wrong with the mix and pour or most likely the rebar that can cause that crumbling.

ardecila Oct 3, 2022 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WrightCONCEPT (Post 9749812)
Concrete doing that seems like there was something wrong with the mix and pour or most likely the rebar that can cause that crumbling.

The parapet panels are held in place with epoxy anchors, the CTA has already admitted that not every anchor was properly filled with epoxy. This likely allowed certain panels to flex because of wind or the train vibrations, and the flex led to shear forces that caused failure at the concrete slab edge. I'm not sure there is an easy fix for this, though. Likely they will need to design some kind of reinforcement for this joint, probably something ugly bracketed on the outside of the structure.

I hope they figure out a solution, because there will be roughly 6 miles of similar sound parapet walls yet to be installed on the RPM project. I still think the problem is not safety critical, but I take back what I said about it being "cosmetic".

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...nder-shear.png
src

Busy Bee Oct 3, 2022 9:55 PM

I'm sorry but the engineering here is just so stupid. Why even the need for parapet walls made of concrete...and if were getting right down to it why even the need for parapet walls at all? Sound control? Sound control on the up and over roller coaster but none on either side makes limited sense. And if you are going to have parapets instead of a simple galvanized safety fence why not use a lightweight material that has a straightforward and conventional means of attachment? "Epoxied rods into concrete" just sounds like the title of the case study done before a multi-million dollar redo snafu just a couple years after completion. Oh wait...

ardecila Oct 3, 2022 11:18 PM

The sound parapet walls are required mitigation since CTA is adding a new structure (the flyover) that did not exist before. If you look at the Orange Line, you will see similar parapets on the viaducts, although those are more conventional type similar to highway ramps. A better example would be the Belmont and Fullerton stations, which had a mixed steel/concrete parapet wall that seems to be more durable but not as sleek.

CTA is also rebuilding 2 blocks of the Main Line from Belmont to Cornelia and that will get parapets as well, and the new structures from Lawrence-Ardmore too.

Epoxy is a common means of attachment these days, it's not exotic. Gets used all the time on Chicago highrises.

Busy Bee Oct 4, 2022 1:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 9750110)

Epoxy is a common means of attachment these days, it's not exotic. Gets used all the time on Chicago highrises.


Yes I'm quite familiar with the use of epoxy anchorage in construction. My fair suggestion is maybe it wasn't the best application in a situation where 300 tons of steel and load rumbles those connections 100+ times a day. The fact they are failing sort of backs up that concern for me.

Klippenstein Oct 4, 2022 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 9750234)
Yes I'm quite familiar with the use of epoxy anchorage in construction. My fair suggestion is maybe it wasn't the best application in a situation where 300 tons of steel and load rumbles those connections 100+ times a day. The fact they are failing sort of backs up that concern for me.

Then why didn’t the ones that were filled with epoxy properly fail?

ardecila Oct 4, 2022 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klippenstein (Post 9750778)
Then why didn’t the ones that were filled with epoxy properly fail?

Without an independent investigation its hard to know whether this was a design flaw or a construction quality issue.

I don't think there is an issue with the use of epoxy here per se, but design factors like the embedment depth, edge distance, etc make the difference between success or failure just as much as the execution does.

Not much point in continuing to debate this here on SSP unless more information comes out.

CaptainJilliams Oct 7, 2022 8:18 PM

Via @ChiBuildings on Twitter, it looks like the Damen Green Line station has finally broken ground:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeblFHjW...name=4096x4096

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeblFHpX...name=4096x4096

lakeshoredrive Oct 7, 2022 8:32 PM

Good to see Damen breaking ground. Now they just need to get going on the State/Lake station and we need to push for a Halsted station for the Green/Pink line in Fulton Market. What other lines need new stations?

Any update on whether or not CTA will rehab the Forest Park branch of the blue line? So many of the stations past IMD need desperate rehab.

Klippenstein Oct 7, 2022 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakeshoredrive (Post 9754772)
Good to see Damen breaking ground. Now they just need to get going on the State/Lake station and we need to push for a Halsted station for the Green/Pink line in Fulton Market. What other lines need new stations?

I know the red line is already full of stations, but it seems to me that it would make sense to add a station on Clyborn just north of Division. Orange line could use a stop at 43rd. It sucks that so much of the track is surrounded by highway/industrial/strip malls. The city should really consider rezoning and promoting residential like around the Kedzie station for instance. Pulaski has space for some big development around it as well, but Ashland was probably the worst location they chose. The stop would make so much more sense a little further out, just South of the 55. Then you coulda also put a stop at Loomis without the stations being too crowded. The orange line is a mess, but I still think a 43rd street station would be good.

Not CTA, but Metra Electric could use another stop between 47th and 26th.
MD-N and W could use a stop in Humboldt Park and, of course, at Ashland/Ogden.
SWS could use one somewhere around Damen or Ashland, but they also need more service. Maybe once they are terminating at Lasalle Street the next project could be adding that station.

I’m sure there’s more, but that’s all I got right now.

thegoatman Oct 8, 2022 5:14 PM

Transit construction in this city (country in general sadly) moves at a ridiculously slow pace. Why is the red line expansion not starting now? Why wait till 2025???? Didn't Biden just give cities trillions of dollars for infrastructure? The Damen green infill stop should have been started.

Wish we had leaders that prioritized transit. When Rahm was in office there were tons of transit stuff going on.

Busy Bee Oct 8, 2022 5:59 PM

^ Federalism?

Some aspects of our systwm of government is genius but planning and bringing into fruition infrastructure is not one of them. In my opinion the country would be better off if much if not most key infrastructure - including road, rail and transit - was centrally planned and executed from the federal level guided in part by state priorities and insight but also consistent long term national goals and most importantly FUNDING. The system as it currently works leaves much to the states which in many cases don't have the resources, ambition or imagination to plan for such infrastructure and thats not even getting into the lack of cooperation between the states.


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