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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8885772)
Lots of medical professionals are hurting, as most have no involvement in the pandemic. I have a dermatologist and dentist in the family, and both are barely working, for obvious reasons.

I don’t have any sympathy for them. I bet they could go to work in 5 minutes helping out in the epidemic. NY and other states, including CA which has much less need, are seeking any licensed healthcare provider. If the folks in your family aren’t working it’s by choice. I might have made the same choice. The economic loss might be worth the physical safety to them. But lets not shed any tears.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8885839)
You're still looking at it from a capitalist point of view. If we had a government run federally funded national health care system, it would be a different story, no? Our postal service is a federal service funded by the federal government; when deliveries slow down during a slow season, you don't hear of postal workers getting laid off or furloughed.

Makes me wonder if VA healthcare workers are being furloughed/laid off? If anything I'd like to think they were ramping up.

Thinking about it now, I realize the US does have socialized medicine: The VA. But it's only for the warrior class. Only one caste in the US has access to government healthcare.

Any doctor out of work right now it’s by personal choice. Don’t blame the economic system. CA and NY are graduating medical and nursing students early, handing them licenses and putting them to work.. CA (and probably NY) is also calling any healthcare professional who retired less than 5 years ago and offering to restore their active license, waive the continuing education and other requirements and put them to work. The military is activating Individual Ready Reserve healthcare professionals of all specialties.

Dermatologists, psychiatrists and the rest standing aside are doing it purely because they choose not to wade into the maelstrom.

Now look at a “socialized” system like transit in San Francisco. Over the weekend they shut down most routes because so many drivers weren’t showing up for work. In a socialized healthcare system, the same people bowing out for reasons of their own physical safety might well still be doing so. If any licensed or recently licensed physician in the US isn’t involved in this under the system we have, there’s a good chance they wouldn’t be under any other. . . Because they don’t want to be.

Someday when a currently youngish dermatologist’s grandchildren ask him or her “what did you do in the coronavirus pandemic, Gramps?” They’ll have to say, “I sat home in my pajamas.”

Crawford Apr 6, 2020 5:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886012)
I don’t have any sympathy for them. I bet they could go to work in 5 minutes helping out in the epidemic. NY and other states, including CA which has much less need, are seeking any licensed healthcare provider. If the folks in your family aren’t working it’s by choice. I might have made the same choice. The economic loss might be worth the physical safety to them. But lets not shed any tears.

I'm not implying they're deserving of sympathy. They make very good money and will be fine. Just saying that many medical professionals have no involvement in the crisis, and probably don't have much to contribute.

Most dermatologists make their money off women's (and increasingly men's) vanity, with an long menu of cosmetic procedures, like lasers, fillers, etc. There are women who spend a couple grand a month at their dermatologist. There are $500 creams and $1,000 laser touchups. Most dentists are just checking teeth and filling cavities. They serve no obvious purpose in fighting Covid 19.

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886023)
Any doctor out of work right now it’s by personal choice. Don’t blame the economic system. CA and NY are graduating medical and nursing students early, handing them licenses and putting them to work.. CA (and probably NY) is also calling any healthcare professional who retired less than 5 years ago and offering to restore their active license, waive the continuing education and other requirements and put them to work. The military is activating Individual Ready Reserve healthcare professionals of all specialties.

Dermatologists, psychiatrists and the rest standing aside are doing it purely because they choose not to wade into the maelstrom.

Now look at a “socialized” system like transit in San Francisco. Over the weekend they shut down most routes because so many drivers weren’t showing up for work. In a socialized healthcare system, the same people bowing out for reasons of their own physical safety might well still be doing so. If any licensed or recently licensed physician in the US isn’t involved in this under the system we have, there’s a good chance they wouldn’t be under any other. . . Because they don’t want to be.

Someday when a currently youngish dermatologist’s grandchildren ask him or her “what did you do in the coronavirus pandemic, Gramps?” They’ll have to say, “I sat home in my pajamas.”

Did SF MUNI really shut down some routes because drivers weren't showing up to work, or was it due to the drop in ridership because of the COVID-19 pandemic? I know that MUNI trains stopped running (which surprised me!) because of the pandemic, but bus service is filling in that gap: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/03/2...ains-march-30/

Here in LA, Metro is still running buses and trains because people still rely on them, even though ridership has taken a blow because of the pandemic. The schedules are drastically altered, though; I know the Metro Gold Line, which runs through my town of South Pasadena, now has 12 minute gaps during what would be rush hour, and 20 minute gaps outside of rush hour. I think service ends an hour or 2 earlier, too. Not as many people on the buses, I see mainly old people and handicapped people taking the bus, but boarding now must be done through the rear door only, and drivers are wearing masks and have that plastic barrier between themselves and the front door.

In LA County, many other cities have their own transit systems which overlap with LA County Metro; the city of Carson has stopped all of their buses, and has asked Metro to do the same, to help stop the spread of COVID-19, but I think that's ridiculous. Like I said, people are still taking transit, and if Metro were to stop running all of their buses and trains, it would be an added hardship for many.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8886042)
I'm not implying they're deserving of sympathy. They make very good money and will be fine. Just saying that many medical professionals have no involvement in the crisis, and probably don't have much to contribute.

Most dermatologists make their money off women's (and increasingly men's) vanity, with an long menu of cosmetic procedures, like lasers, fillers, etc. There are women who spend a couple grand a month at their dermatologist. There are $500 creams and $1,000 laser touchups. Most dentists are just checking teeth and filling cavities. They serve no obvious purpose in fighting Covid 19.

They have at least as much to contribute as a just-graduated medical student with no on-the-job-traing. Cosmetic surgery is surgery and requires all the same skills as any other kind. If they can start an IV, hang fluids, do chest compressions if somebody codes they can be of help.

My entire life I've listened to whining from dermatolgists, radiologists and some psychiatrists trying to bow out of the less pleasant parts of their chosen profession because they'd rather work regular hours and coin money. I'm not buying it. If they can't help in an emergency, they have no business doing any invasive procedure, whether with scalpel or laser (or dental drill for that matter), on any human being. Even a dentist injecting a local anesthetic into someone's jaw can induce anaphylaxis that could be life threatening and if they don't know how to manage it, they don't deserve to do that kind of work.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886066)
Did SF MUNI really shut down some routes because drivers weren't showing up to work, or was it due to the drop in ridership because of the COVID-19 pandemic? I know that MUNI trains stopped running (which surprised me!) because of the pandemic, but bus service is filling in that gap: https://sf.streetsblog.org/2020/03/2...ains-march-30/

Quote:

The elimination of service on 51 Muni lines is needed because roughly 40% of the citywide transit system’s bus drivers are expected to be out because of the coronavirus outbreak, said Jeffrey Tumlin, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency’s transportation director.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-15181917.php

Fabulous comment section re Muni: https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

BG918 Apr 6, 2020 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8886042)
I'm not implying they're deserving of sympathy. They make very good money and will be fine. Just saying that many medical professionals have no involvement in the crisis, and probably don't have much to contribute.

Most dermatologists make their money off women's (and increasingly men's) vanity, with an long menu of cosmetic procedures, like lasers, fillers, etc. There are women who spend a couple grand a month at their dermatologist. There are $500 creams and $1,000 laser touchups. Most dentists are just checking teeth and filling cavities. They serve no obvious purpose in fighting Covid 19.

Exactly, just because you're a "healthcare professional" doesn't mean you can necessarily help fight COVID. Many private hospitals and clinics are financially built on elective procedures, and there aren't very many of those happening right now. So absolutely there will be doctors, nurses and support staff laid off or furloughed across the country in large numbers even during this pandemic.

JManc Apr 6, 2020 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 8886104)
Exactly, just because you're a "healthcare professional" doesn't mean you can necessarily help fight COVID. Many private hospitals and clinics are financially built on elective procedures, and there aren't very many of those happening right now. So absolutely there will be doctors, nurses and support staff laid off or furloughed across the country in large numbers even during this pandemic.

I am sure a dentist, plastic surgeon, dermatologist could provide basic triage/ medical treatment in a crisis situation. Especially an MD who all go through the same medical school training. It's the residency where they specialize. (pedestrian?)

Crawford Apr 6, 2020 7:25 PM

Even dentists have the same first year training as MDs, I believe. My sis got her dentistry degree at University of Michigan, and I think first year classes were conducted jointly.

No clue if that actually means they can provide support during this crisis, though.

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886069)

I couldn't read that SF Chronicle article...

But I guess I had misunderstood you; I interpreted your comment incorrectly, I thought you had said drivers just decided that they weren't going to show up to work, when in actuality, they started to self-quarantine, and some have conditions that make them especially vulnerable:

From the Muni website (sfmta.com):

Muni Prepares to Deliver Essential Trips Only
Quote:

In the rapidly changing environment caused by COVID-19, the SFMTA is making additional updates to Muni service. While ridership has fallen significantly, our bus operators still serve approximately 100,000 passengers a day – getting nurses, cooks, custodians, and other essential workers to their jobs. The SFMTA has instituted some of the strongest health protections for our operators, mechanics, car cleaners and customers to minimize risk of transmission on our buses. These efforts have been paired with our continued effort to maintain regular service, so remaining essential workers have the space to maintain recommended distances on Muni.

However, it has become increasingly difficult to continue delivering service on our current network due to operator availability and the changing trip needs of the community.  Following public health guidance, there are operators in self-quarantine out of an abundance of caution, while others have conditions that make them especially vulnerable. We are expecting over 40% of our operators to be out in the coming week. Remaining operators will continue to be on the job doing the heroic work of keeping San Francisco moving during this crisis.

In order to maintain service levels to provide social distance, we must focus our available resources on the lines that most critically serve essential trips. This means temporarily reducing Muni service, and prioritizing routes in most critical need during the pandemic.

Our priority is to be fully transparent with the community. Our goal is to restore normal service as quickly as possible. However, in the interim, we will prioritize our available resources based on connections to medical facilities, Muni’s Equity Strategy, and data from customer travel patterns we’ve observed during the COVID-19 shelter-in-place order. In order to maintain frequency, and sufficient social distance on these services, we will continue to operate 17 routes, while temporarily eliminating services on others.


Link: https://www.sfmta.com/blog/muni-prep...ial-trips-only

homebucket Apr 6, 2020 7:41 PM

Local dentists have actually been caught prescribing Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin for themselves and their families. This is obviously out of their scope of practice, but hey, if they feel like they can write prescriptions for it, maybe we should "enlist" them into our medical centers! :haha:

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 7:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886178)
I couldn't read that SF Chronicle article...

But I guess I had misunderstood you; I interpreted your comment incorrectly, I thought you had said drivers just decided that they weren't going to show up to work, when in actuality, they started to self-quarantine, and some have conditions that make them especially vulnerable

The article doesn't say WHY they didn't show up. Muni has very loose rules about staying out sick. Drivers just do it all the time--no doctors' notes or anything like that required (union rules). I DO suspect most of them just considered it too risky to work--look at the comments in the Examiner piece which has no firewall, several from Muni drivers. All the drivers are being paid whether they work or not, so why work?

BG918 Apr 6, 2020 7:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8886138)
I am sure a dentist, plastic surgeon, dermatologist could provide basic triage/ medical treatment in a crisis situation. Especially an MD who all go through the same medical school training. It's the residency where they specialize. (pedestrian?)

Individually yes. But these for-profit health systems are being just as affected as many other industries and will lay off/furlough employees. In fact healthcare may be one of the hardest hit sectors up there with hospitality and retail.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ff/5102320002/

SIGSEGV Apr 6, 2020 7:53 PM

CTA is still running full service. At first I thought it was ridiculous that the express commuter bus I ride was still running but then I remembered that plenty of the people on it are commuting to UCMedical...

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8886138)
I am sure a dentist, plastic surgeon, dermatologist could provide basic triage/ medical treatment in a crisis situation. Especially an MD who all go through the same medical school training. It's the residency where they specialize. (pedestrian?)

Yes, medical school is pretty much the same for all, certainly the "pre-clinical" years. Where/when I went, we did a year of basic sciences that everybody took and a year of clinical rotations--medicine, surgery, OB-GYN, psychiatry and pediatrics--that everybody took. Then we had a year of elective basic sciences and a year of elective clinical rotations so, for example, the would-be surgeons could do rotations in thoracic surgery and urology while the prospective non-surgeons could do neurology and nephrology (for example).

After graduation, you used to do an internship that was either surgical or non-surgical where, again, you rotated through the specialties in those general categories. Now a lot of people go directly into residencies in their chosen field.

But the point here is that with the possible exceptions of most psychiatrists, just about all other doctors have relevant skills (and the psychiatrists could counsel grieving relatives). Even radiologists have to be able to start an IV to do the type of studies where they inject contrast material plus they can certainly help out reading films in the ER if they have forgotten everything else they learned in Med School. I already pointed out that dentists inject their patients with local anesthetics so they are trained how to manage extreme allergic reactions which can be dramatic emergencies. And they do dental surgery which can be more complicated than some other surgery.

It's just not the case that these people have nothing to offer if they are willing to offer it.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 8:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BG918 (Post 8886104)
Exactly, just because you're a "healthcare professional" doesn't mean you can necessarily help fight COVID. Many private hospitals and clinics are financially built on elective procedures, and there aren't very many of those happening right now. So absolutely there will be doctors, nurses and support staff laid off or furloughed across the country in large numbers even during this pandemic.

Quote:

Health professionals, California needs you!

California is preparing for an increase in the number of people who urgently need health care in our communities during the COVID-19 outbreak. To meet this moment, we’re opening additional health care sites to treat people affected by COVID-19 and to relieve the pressure on our health care system by providing care for non-COVID-19 cases.

To ensure adequate staff for health care sites throughout California, we’re calling on healthcare providers, behavioral health professionals, and health care administrators to register today.

We need:

Physicians (MD, DO), including medical residents
Pharmacists
Dentists
Nurse practitioners
Physician assistants
Nurses (RN, LVN, CNA), including nursing students
Behavioral health professionals (psychiatrist, psychiatric technicians psychologist, psychiatric nurse practitioner, LCSW, LMFT, LPCC)
Respiratory therapists
Paramedics
Medical assistants
Emergency medical technicians
You will be paid and will be given malpractice insurance coverage. Locations will vary, but we will try to match your geographical preferences.

You have the opportunity to play a critical role in responding to this public health emergency in your region. To care for Californians who need your help, please sign up.
https://covid19.ca.gov/healthcorps/

No health care professional in the WORLD (yes, they are granting licenses to doctors trained in other countries who might normally need additional training in the US to get licensed) needs to be laid off or unemployed right now. No excuses. Sorry.

And in CA the weather's great!

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886183)
The article doesn't say WHY they didn't show up. Muni has very loose rules about staying out sick. Drivers just do it all the time--no doctors' notes or anything like that required (union rules). I DO suspect most of them just considered it too risky to work--look at the comments in the Examiner piece which has no firewall, several from Muni drivers. All the drivers are being paid whether they work or not, so why work?

I really don't like reading comments sections of news articles; they just aggravate me. They're all subjective experiences and/or opinions, and can be filled with a lot of misinformation. I skimmed through it, though.

Are drivers really paid whether they work or not? According to this link to the SF Muni Union (though outdated, covers 7-1-2014 to 6-30-2016), it mentions sick leave with/without pay, and it does mention that paid sick leave can be exhausted.

TWU Local 250-A SFMTA: https://www.sfmta.com/sites/default/...%2012%29_0.pdf

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 8:31 PM

Ah, per California Governor Gavin Newsom:

- California is lending 500 ventilators to states in need
- More than 81,000 people have signed up for the Health Corps (wow!)
- California has procured sites to hold over 4,000 emergency medical beds so far

Link, from laist: https://laist.com/latest/post/202004...te-coronavirus

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886225)
Are drivers really paid whether they work or not? According to this link to the SF Muni Union (though outdated, covers 7-1-2014 to 6-30-2016), it mentions sick leave with/without pay, and it does mention that paid sick leave can be exhausted.

Quote:

Still, Tumlin said the service reduction was not a cost-saving measure, and that Muni operators would not be furloughed.

“All operators are being paid,” Tumlin said.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

Quote:

Rampant absenteeism at Muni transit agency costs $42 million in leave pay
By Kevin Truong – Special Projects Editor, San Francisco Business Times
Dec 27, 2016, 12:55pm PST Updated Jan 3, 2017, 3:36pm PST

Muni has long struggled with no-show drivers. Every San Francisco bus and lightrail rider knows all too well the frustration of waiting and waiting for a ride that never shows up.

Now, new data from the San Francisco’s Office of the City Controller has identified the issue of chronic absenteeism at the agency that oversees Muni drivers and other transportation workers and pointed to fixes designed to stem the problem of drivers not showing up for work.

According to the study, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency has the second highest absenteeism rate of the 10 city departments with the largest operating budgets, corresponding to $42 million in leave pay during the 2013-14 fiscal year.

SFMTA’s 5,571 employees that year had an absenteeism rate of 12.91 percent, totaling nearly 1.5 million leave hours. Besides increased leave pay, chronic absenteeism at the agency also leads to canceled transit runs with longer wait times for passengers, along with increased overtime costs for staff needed to pick up the slack from absent employees . . . .
https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...er-report.html

In other words, it's something of a tradition at SF Muni: Don't show up for work but expect to be paid anyway. And they won't fire you--the union won't let them. I don't know if any of these drivers not working right now have exhausted their sick leave but my guess is if asked, they will claim some sort of exposure on their route requiring "self-quarantine" and nobody will question it and they will continue to be paid.

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886249)
Quote:

Still, Tumlin said the service reduction was not a cost-saving measure, and that Muni operators would not be furloughed.

“All operators are being paid,” Tumlin said.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

Yeah I read that, but that's in regards to what's going on right now, for the time being, with service reduced from the pandemic. I didn't take that as being the general rule with the Muni drivers' union.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886249)
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/


https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...er-report.html

In other words, it's something of a tradition at SF Muni: Don't show up for work but expect to be paid anyway. And they won't fire you--the union won't let them. I don't know if any of these drivers not working right now have exhausted their sick leave but my guess is if asked, they will claim some sort of exposure on their route requiring "self-quarantine" and nobody will question it and they will continue to be paid.

I couldn't read that article.

And that sounds like your interpretation or speculation on your part.

Though I couldn't read the article, I did find this: https://sfist.com/2016/12/28/muni_drivers_cough_sick/

Same story, but it gives a little more nuanced info. It talks about sick time abuse; apparently, many drivers call out sick when their vacation requests are denied. So, that sick time is what adds to the absenteeism. They don't just not show up and get paid, they are calling out sick a lot. You seem to be making out that they're just lazy and just don't want to work but still get paid; no, they're calling out sick for a reason, because many drivers' vacations aren't approved. What if they had a significant family event to go to, like a wedding or graduation, or baptism or confirmation or whatever, but couldn't go because their vacation wasn't approved? They'll call out sick, and not because they're necessarily lazy, but because they have something important to go to.

mrnyc Apr 6, 2020 9:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8886147)
Even dentists have the same first year training as MDs, I believe. My sis got her dentistry degree at University of Michigan, and I think first year classes were conducted jointly.

No clue if that actually means they can provide support during this crisis, though.


well that's why we have the old md/dentist joke.

what do you call a med school dropout?


baa duummm.

tissssch.

:haha:

Double L Apr 6, 2020 9:40 PM

There are 85,357 Texans who have been tested
There are 7,319 who have been tested positive in Texas
140 deaths
21,033 beds available statewide
6,080 ventilators available
7,550 anesthesia machines available
More than 1.6 million masks
Over 2.7 million gloves distributed
1,145 cases in Houston

sopas ej Apr 6, 2020 9:43 PM

From ABC-7 Los Angeles:

Coronavirus: Officials urge LA County residents to skip grocery shopping, stay home this week

Officials are advising all residents of Los Angeles County to stay home this week, which they are calling critical in the widespread efforts to curb the spread of COVID-19.

At a Monday afternoon press conference, county public health director Dr. Barbara Ferrer said people should try not leave their homes for groceries or medications, but should instead arrange for them to be delivered, if necessary.

"If you have enough supplies in your home, this would be the week to skip shopping altogether," she said.

The recommendation comes as the number of cases across L.A. County topped 6,000. The county's death toll now stands at 147.

Globally, the number of people dying appeared to be slowing in New York City, Spain and Italy. The news was cautiously welcomed by leaders, who also noted that any gains could easily be reversed if people did not continue to adhere to strict lockdowns.

[...]

Link: https://abc7.com/la-county-residents...xKZjSGlDGCXySM



It's a good thing we got our grocery shopping done yesterday; we weren't planning on going to the market for at least another 2 weeks.

Acajack Apr 6, 2020 10:09 PM

On the topic of which health care professionals could help out (and which ones couldn't), I found it interesting today that Quebec Premier François Legault mentioned that they were enlisting *veterinarians* as emergency help to install and operate ventilators - since they already know how they work.

mrnyc Apr 6, 2020 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double L (Post 8886308)
There are 85,357 Texans who have been tested
There are 7,319 who have been tested positive in Texas
140 deaths
21,033 beds available statewide
6,080 ventilators available
7,550 anesthesia machines available
More than 1.6 million masks
Over 2.7 million gloves distributed
1,145 cases in Houston


so if you have a known corona you have a 1 in 52 chance to die in texas as of currently? did i do that right? :shrug:

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886278)
You seem to be making out that they're just lazy and just don't want to work but still get paid; no, they're calling out sick for a reason, because many drivers' vacations aren't approved. What if they had a significant family event to go to, like a wedding or graduation, or baptism or confirmation or whatever, but couldn't go because their vacation wasn't approved? They'll call out sick, and not because they're necessarily lazy, but because they have something important to go to.

Not necessarily. I suspect many of them feel the same way I do. They're afraid and with good justification. But I raised this issue as a comparison with certain medical personnel in a government health system. I think some of them might not show up--those dermatologists and dentists and administrative nurses--because they're afraid to. Recall, the issue was an allegation that we have health pros sitting this one out because of capitalism or some such. I think they're sitting it out for reasons having nothing to do with economic systems just like the bus drivers.

Let me quote the comments that struck me:

Quote:

Guillermo Fernandez
I totally agree, I’m a Muni operator too, the city needs to enforce shelter in place for all these drug addicts, homeless and mentally ill, that for many years has been a public health hazard, now with these pandemic is even worse because they ride the buses more frequently, free and use the buses as shelters, leaving all the germs on the bus for us to absorb it, remember we’re inside these buses 8 to 10 hours a day, more than anybody, so we’re more exposed, besides these people don't care about their own life much worse the life of other people, also the bus stops are another shelter for these people, the city needs to clean up the bus stops shelters, the one at the 22 line Church and Dubose IB is the most dirtiest and disgusting
Quote:

Johnny Young
This is not the solution. I work for sfmta as an operator and I think the issue is and always has been is drug addicts and homeless. They roam pointlessly causing a health concern for everyone.

Case in point, I drive the 5R line. I love this line due to the fact I get to serve productive people that works in downtown and live in Richmond district, it's busy, crowded, and run time is tight. But I love serving people to their commute. The last couple of weeks has been bad, I'm just taking junkies from tenderloin to the beach.

The real solution is to clean up the street, and enforce the shelter at home firmly. If your ride is non essential, get off! You're putting everyone at risk.
https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/muni...than-70-lines/

These guys are apparently still working but they tell you how many of the drivers feel and I'd bet a lot of them just decided it isn't worth it.

By the way, the 5 line referred to ("R" stands for "rapid"--it's the express bus on the 5 line) is probably the one I take the most--passes a block from my place.

Pedestrian Apr 6, 2020 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8886351)
On the topic of which health care professionals could help out (and which ones couldn't), I found it interesting today that Quebec Premier François Legault mentioned that they were enlisting *veterinarians* as emergency help to install and operate ventilators - since they already know how they work.

In fact, in NY I read they are asking veterinarians to donate their ventillators to be used on people so they definitely know how those work.

Double L Apr 6, 2020 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrnyc (Post 8886364)
so if you have a known corona you have a 1 in 52 chance to die in texas as of currently? did i do that right? :shrug:

1 in 66 in California

mhays Apr 7, 2020 1:41 AM

That's not what it means at all.

Of the known cases in past tense, sure. But a lot of cases aren't known, because they're non-or lightly symptomatic, newly infected, or seriously ill or dead but not considered coronavirus cases.

The first two suggest the survival rate is higher than the stats. The third suggests it's worse. The truth is probably between the two...WAY more cases than we know about, and also quite a bit more deaths.

As for your "chances," that would depend on future conditions. If the medical system gets overwhelmed (depends on how stupid the public is), death rates can get much higher. And of course if you're healthy and younger they'll be much lower.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 2:09 AM

From the Los Angeles Daily News:

LA County giving $10,000 each to businesses as coronavirus hits bottom lines

By CITY NEWS SERVICE | news@socalnews.com |
PUBLISHED: April 6, 2020 at 11:22 a.m. | UPDATED: April 6, 2020 at 1:46 p.m.

LOS ANGELES — Los Angeles County is launching a $500,000 fund to provide grants of up to $10,000 each to local businesses in need, officials announced Monday.

Business owners should act fast, as applications will be processed on a first-come, first-served basis and closed once 150 applications are received.

Supervisor Kathryn Barger said the Board of Supervisors and the Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services joined together to create the fund.

“The coronavirus pandemic has impacted residents and businesses throughout Los Angeles County,” Barger said. “It is vitally important that we pursue every resource available to support local business and help maintain good job opportunities throughout the region.”

The Department of Workforce Development, Aging and Community Services will host a webinar at 1:30 p.m. Tuesday to guide business owners on how to apply. The application site will open Wednesday at 8 a.m. at https://workforce.lacounty.gov/.

About 25% of awards will be reserved for social enterprises that demonstrate a need and ability to serve vulnerable populations. Priority will also be given to businesses in unincorporated areas of the county.

Supervisor Hilda Solis said an unprecedented response is required.

“Los Angeles County will assist our most burdened businesses impacted by the COVID-19 crisis with the launch of our Employer Assistance Grant Fund,” Solis said. “This innovative state-funded program will help our local businesses, including nonprofits and social enterprises that serve our communities’ most vulnerable individuals. This unprecedented global pandemic requires an unprecedented response, and L.A. County stands ready to offer relief to our small businesses.”

In order to qualify, businesses must:

- Be a for-profit corporation, partnership, or nonprofit with a for-profit activity in Los Angeles County
- Have between two and 50 full-time employees
- Have less than $2 million in gross receipts or annual revenue
- Have been established on or before Dec. 4, 2019
- Be able to produce tax returns
- Demonstrate significant economic hardship as a result of COVID-19. Businesses that have demonstrated evidence of a loss of revenue of at least 20% will have met this burden.

Businesses can use the money to:

- Pay mortgages, rent or utilities
- Cover working capital costs
- Pay for inventory
- Bridge funding to other lenders, such as Small Business Administration Payroll Protection
- Pay down other debt incurred before the covered period

The grants may not be used to pay outstanding taxes, legal judgments, employee payroll or benefits, or for lobbying.

The WDACS acting director, Otto Solorzano, thanked state officials for making monies available for the fund, which he said would be the first of its kind in California.

“Thank you to Gov. (Gavin) Newsom and (the California Employment Development Department) for providing this critical funding for L.A. County’s businesses, and to the Board of Supervisors for their support of this essential program,” Solorzano said. “The Employer Assistance Grant Fund will provide some of our local businesses with desperately needed capital at a critical time, allowing them to retain workers and remain in business.”

Link: https://www.dailynews.com/2020/04/06...-bottom-lines/

AviationGuy Apr 7, 2020 4:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886012)
I don’t have any sympathy for them. I bet they could go to work in 5 minutes helping out in the epidemic. NY and other states, including CA which has much less need, are seeking any licensed healthcare provider. If the folks in your family aren’t working it’s by choice. I might have made the same choice. The economic loss might be worth the physical safety to them. But lets not shed any tears.

Are you able to work as a paid M.D. or maybe a volunteer? I've missed a lot of your posts so I don't know if you've already mentioned. You seem like an ideal person for the job, but if you have limitations, I understand. BTW, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread. We need someone with the knowledge you have.

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2020 5:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AviationGuy (Post 8886635)
Are you able to work as a paid M.D. or maybe a volunteer? I've missed a lot of your posts so I don't know if you've already mentioned. You seem like an ideal person for the job, but if you have limitations, I understand. BTW, I really appreciate your contributions to this thread. We need someone with the knowledge you have.

First of all I switched from an active license to a retired license 8 years ago so they don’t want me (they only want people who retired 5 years ago or less). Second, I’m 74, somewhat overweight (not terribly now—I lost 70 pounds), have group A blood and a liver condition so I pretty much have all the risk factors for not doing well if I catch it. And I’m a coward. I admit it. I live alone with just my cat—I worry a lot about who’d care for the kitty if I wind up in the hospital (made worse by the discovery that cats can carry the virus). And finally, for now I’m kind of stuck in Arizona and neither that state nor CA really seems like they’re going to need me according to the U. Of Washington model.

chris08876 Apr 7, 2020 10:37 AM

FDNY, New Yorkers Clap for Workers at Mount Sinai Hospital during Coronavirus Pandemic 2020

Video Link

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 1:20 PM

As a result of not going out...

From CBS2 Los Angeles:

LA Has The Cleanest Air In The World, Report Says

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) — With so many people staying at home and off the roads, Los Angeles currently has the cleanest air in the world, according to IQ Air’s live quality city ranking.

Following the issuing of the state-wide “Safe-At-Home” orders, many residents began working from home, lowering the number of commuters on the road.

On March 18, L.A.’s infamous rush-hour traffic was moving 71 percent faster than it usually does on a Wednesday afternoon, The New York Times reported.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency, last month L.A. experienced the longest consecutive “good” air days since at least 1980.

Experts say the improvement is also due to fewer planes flying and less ground activity in general.

Link: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...UIkLE.facebook


And this has to be cleanest air in the world for a big city, right? I would think Antarctica would have cleaner air...

montréaliste Apr 7, 2020 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886780)
As a result of not going out...

From CBS2 Los Angeles:

LA Has The Cleanest Air In The World, Report Says

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) — With so many people staying at home and off the roads, Los Angeles currently has the cleanest air in the world, according to IQ Air’s live quality city ranking.

Following the issuing of the state-wide “Safe-At-Home” orders, many residents began working from home, lowering the number of commuters on the road.

On March 18, L.A.’s infamous rush-hour traffic was moving 71 percent faster than it usually does on a Wednesday afternoon, The New York Times reported.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency, last month L.A. experienced the longest consecutive “good” air days since at least 1980.

Experts say the improvement is also due to fewer planes flying and less ground activity in general.

Link: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...UIkLE.facebook


And this has to be cleanest air in the world for a big city, right? I would think Antarctica would have cleaner air...


The traffic reports for the Trans-Antarctic freeway at the Penguin Canyon interchange are pretty horrendous this a.m.

hauntedheadnc Apr 7, 2020 2:18 PM

The most significant impact of coronavirus on my life right now is that last night I was cooking supper as I do almost every night now, and while cutting onions I sliced through my thumbnail and into my thumb. It hurt quite a bit to say the least, and caused me to need an hour or so to myself sitting quietly and absolutely fucking hating everyone and everything. Since then I've been treated to the curious phenomenon of being able to feel my heartbeat throbbing in my thumb.

1 star. Would not recommend.

chris08876 Apr 7, 2020 3:19 PM

Today's Cuomo Conference:

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...7121df210.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...1f06afc1d.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...12ccbdd77.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...8a0edcac3.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...b43cc6679.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...ea123ee8c.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...bd47e5d25.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...c3b9f2546.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...615945225.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...f29241cb1.jpeg

https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/busin...77542f554.jpeg

chris08876 Apr 7, 2020 3:26 PM

^^^^^

I found the last point in reference to the 1918 Pandemic quite humbling. We have it good in hindsight. And keep in mind, that was just in 1... I repeat... 1 city or state. A six month peak would suck.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 3:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8886672)
First of all I switched from an active license to a retired license 8 years ago so they don’t want me (they only want people who retired 5 years ago or less). Second, I’m 74, somewhat overweight (not terribly now—I lost 70 pounds), have group A blood and a liver condition so I pretty much have all the risk factors for not doing well if I catch it. And I’m a coward. I admit it. I live alone with just my cat—I worry a lot about who’d care for the kitty if I wind up in the hospital (made worse by the discovery that cats can carry the virus). And finally, for now I’m kind of stuck in Arizona and neither that state nor CA really seems like they’re going to need me according to the U. Of Washington model.

I forgot, Pedestrian, but where in AZ do you live again? Just curious. I haven't been to AZ in many years now... not since 2004 or '05.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc (Post 8886820)
The most significant impact of coronavirus on my life right now is that last night I was cooking supper as I do almost every night now, and while cutting onions I sliced through my thumbnail and into my thumb. It hurt quite a bit to say the least, and caused me to need an hour or so to myself sitting quietly and absolutely fucking hating everyone and everything. Since then I've been treated to the curious phenomenon of being able to feel my heartbeat throbbing in my thumb.

1 star. Would not recommend.

Oh mah gah I feel your pain. When I was 17, at my very first job, I worked at a Burger King. During a lunch rush, while assembling and cutting a chicken sandwich, I sliced my thumb with a serrated knife, not through the nail but to the edge of the nail. It hurt so bad and there was a lot of blood. I still have the scar, but it's actually quite faint now.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 7:46 PM

From ABC7 Los Angeles:

Los Angeles coronavirus update: LA County confirms 15 additional deaths, 420 new cases including 12 among homeless population

Here are the current numbers of novel coronavirus cases across the Southland:

Los Angeles County: 6,360 confirmed cases, 147 deaths

Orange County: 882 cases, 14 deaths

Riverside County: 946 confirmed cases, 25 deaths

San Bernardino County: 530 cases, 16 deaths

Ventura County: 226 cases, 6 deaths

San Diego County: 1,404 cases, 19 deaths

12 p.m.

Gov. Gavin Newsom announced the latest coronavirus numbers for California, with 15,865 cases, 374 deaths, 2,611 hospitalized and 1,108 people in ICU.

The governor said thanks to efforts of Californians following the safer-at-home orders, the amount of cases has begun to gradually slow.

Newsom also provided information about ways to protect mental health as many residents hunker down indoors.

"Staying at home doesn't mean you're alone. We're here to do what we can to support you and be there at a time of need," Newsom said.

6 a.m.

This week, nine YMCA facilities across L.A. will open their doors to help the homeless during the pandemic. They're teaming up with the Board of Public Works to provide access to restrooms, showers, and locker rooms. More facilities may be opened later this week. Mayor Eric Garcetti also says the centers will create jobs for people who have been laid off.


Link: https://abc7.com/health/covid-19-upd...MAPs7Xwka28nLk

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 7:50 PM

Meanwhile, in Spain...

From Business Insider:

Spain is moving to establish permanent basic income in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic

Link: https://www.businessinsider.com/spai...CiUdIz4fQNWzwg


And in the US...

From The Philadelphia Inquirer:

Grocery workers in U.S. are beginning to die of coronavirus

Link: https://www.inquirer.com/health/coro...NL41yuIZ4mtIFU

Crawford Apr 7, 2020 8:17 PM

California is really doing an outstanding job. I don't know if it's good fortune, good policy, or what, but a state that has all the risk factors just isn't showing much spread.

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2020 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886880)
I forgot, Pedestrian, but where in AZ do you live again? Just curious. I haven't been to AZ in many years now... not since 2004 or '05.

Green Valley (red blot way down south marks the spot):

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...292052/enhance
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ariz...q8ifDkpvCiY0M:

But this is a second home. I still consider myself a San Franciscan and vote in SF.

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2020 9:37 PM

I love this:

Quote:

Communal Tins of Sourdough Starter Are Popping Up On Trees in San Francisco
Yes, there’s a Google map, too
by Eve Batey Apr 7, 2020, 12:15pm PDT

It’s no secret that everyone and their brother is suddenly into baking bread — one can’t open up Instagram without being confronted with a slew of loaf brags, many from folks whose accounts never before demonstrated an interest in the pursuit, all eager to show off their new skill. Now ABC 7 reports that San Franciscans are taking the social media concept of sharing offline, and are now sharing their sourdough starters by attaching them to power poles and trees.

For those who have somehow missed out on the baking-at-home boom (a trend so pervasive that Google searches for “bread” hit an all-time high), sourdough starter is a fermented mixture of flour and water that allows bread to rise. Here’s Eater’s Dayna Evans (whose “Everyone’s Making Sourdough Now — Here’s How to Get Started” is everything you need to jump on the breadwagon) on starter:

Guides in hand, the first thing that you’re going to need to make bread is a sourdough starter. A starter — also known as a levain, a mother, or a pre-ferment — is a lively mixture of flour and water combined with wild yeast and good bacteria captured from the air. It’s the ingredient that enables your sourdough bread to rise and what gives it its signature tangy flavor.

[But in a pinch credit must be given to] San Francisco’s dedication to quirk, as evidenced by signs posted to trees in spots across the Mission, Noe Valley, Bernal Heights, and Potrero Hill. “SOURDOUGH STARTER & (occasional) BAKED TREATS UP FOR GRABS!!” one sign reads. “Starter name: ‘Freddie, Son of Godric’ fed with all-purpose flour.” Also attached to the trees are jars or tins with the bacterial concoction inside, just there for the taking.

The effort to spread Freddie and his ilk has spawned a “Victory Dough” Google Map, that in its description says, “It all started with a neighbor’s Nextdoor.com post offering his hungry and active starter (named Godric) that he hung on a Bernal Heights telephone pole and inviting everyone into sourdough bread-making.” As of publication time, the map boasts 10 spots at which starter has been placed, and users can edit the map and add their own drop-off points.

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...295414/enhance
https://sf.eater.com/2020/4/7/212124...an%20Francisco

Note: Freddie, Son of Godric may have been fed with all-purpose flour, but I have found that feeding my starter with whole wheat flour does wonders for it--much more yeasty bubbling activity.

jd3189 Apr 7, 2020 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8886780)
As a result of not going out...

From CBS2 Los Angeles:

LA Has The Cleanest Air In The World, Report Says

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) — With so many people staying at home and off the roads, Los Angeles currently has the cleanest air in the world, according to IQ Air’s live quality city ranking.

Following the issuing of the state-wide “Safe-At-Home” orders, many residents began working from home, lowering the number of commuters on the road.

On March 18, L.A.’s infamous rush-hour traffic was moving 71 percent faster than it usually does on a Wednesday afternoon, The New York Times reported.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency, last month L.A. experienced the longest consecutive “good” air days since at least 1980.

Experts say the improvement is also due to fewer planes flying and less ground activity in general.

Link: https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2020...UIkLE.facebook


And this has to be cleanest air in the world for a big city, right? I would think Antarctica would have cleaner air...


It’s been raining a lot too. For any of you native southern Californians, has it ever been this wet and green here before?

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd3189 (Post 8887336)
It’s been raining a lot too. For any of you native southern Californians, has it ever been this wet and green here before?

Yes it has. Especially during the El Niño years when we have a lot of rain. Two or three years ago, we also had a lot of rain during the winter, the one that took us out of the drought. That winter and spring, we had lots of greenery. And that was the spring of the superbloom, with pretty wildflowers everywhere.

sopas ej Apr 7, 2020 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8887227)
Green Valley (red blot way down south marks the spot):

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/ser...292052/enhance
https://www.google.com/search?q=Ariz...q8ifDkpvCiY0M:

But this is a second home. I still consider myself a San Franciscan and vote in SF.

Ah OK. So you're not far from Tucson, a city I've never been to before.

Last year, my partner and I thought to explore Tucson (he's never been there before either). We thought to go because we heard that it's a much more interesting city than Phoenix, and it's also the first city in the US to be named a UNESCO City of Gastronomy. We being into all kinds of cuisines, we wanted to check it out, but we never ended up going.

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2020 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 8887348)
Ah OK. So you're not far from Tucson, a city I've never been to before.

Last year, my partner and I thought to explore Tucson (he's never been there before either). We thought to go because we heard that it's a much more interesting city than Phoenix, and it's also the first city in the US to be named a UNESCO City of Gastronomy. We being into all kinds of cuisines, we wanted to check it out, but we never ended up going.

Seems to me it's a city of one cuisine--Sonoran--which is maybe not the high point of Mexican food (I think there's more variety of Mexican in San Francisco because there there are people from all over Mexico and Central America; here it's just Sonora, next door). There are Indian, Thai and some other restaurants but nothing like the Bay Area. And lots of strip malls.

Basically Tucson is a large college town, dominated by the U. of Arizona. But the food, aside from Sonoran, tends to chain fast food and strip mall stuff.

Since I'm only 40 miles from the border, I used to go to Mexico for lunch. The border's closed now, though and the drug violence scared off enough business that my favorite restaurant found a way to move north of the border to a little art enclave called Tubac about halfway between me and the border. Very historical place actually--it's where the first Spanish expedition to reach and explore the Bay Area started.

Quote:

Established in 1752 as a Spanish presidio, the first Spanish colonial garrison in what is now Arizona, Tubac was one of the stops on the Camino Real (the "Royal Road") from Mexico to the Spanish settlements in California.

Tubac's most famous Spanish resident was Juan Bautista de Anza. While stationed at Tubac (1760–1776), de Anza built the chapel of Santa Gertrudis, the foundations of which lie beneath today's St. Ann's Church.

Apaches attacked the town repeatedly in the 1840s, forcing the Sonoran Mexicans to abandon both Tumacacori and Tubac.

Tubac was the scene of a four-day siege in 1861, between Tubac's male population, Confederate militia and Apache warriors.

In the 1930s - 1960s Tubac became an art colony. . . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubac,_Arizona

Quote:

The Spanish began colonizing Alta California with the Portolá expedition of 1769–1770. The two-pronged Portolá effort involved both a long sea voyage against prevailing winds and the California Current, and a difficult land route from Baja California. Colonies were established at San Diego and Monterey, with a presidio and Franciscan mission at each location. A more direct land route and further colonization were desired, especially at present-day San Francisco, which Portolá saw but was not able to colonize. By the time of Juan Bautista de Anza's expedition, three more missions had been established, including Mission San Antonio de Padua in the Salinas Valley.

In 1772, Anza proposed an expedition to Alta California to the Viceroy of New Spain. This was approved by the King of Spain and on January 8, 1774, with 3 padres, 20 soldiers, 11 servants, 35 mules, 65 cattle, and 140 horses, Anza set forth from Tubac Presidio, south of present-day Tucson, Arizona. Anza heard of a California Native American called Sebastian Tarabal who had fled from Mission San Gabriel to Sonora, and took him as guide. The expedition took a southern route along the Rio Altar (Sonora y Sinaloa, New Spain), then paralleled the modern Mexico/California border, crossing the Colorado River at its confluence with the Gila River. This was in the domain of the Yuma tribe, with which he established good relations.

Anza reached Mission San Gabriel Arcángel, near the California coast, on March 22, 1774, and Monterey, California, Alta California's capital, on April 19. He returned to Tubac by late May, 1774. This expedition was closely watched by Viceroy and King, and on October 2, 1774, Anza was promoted to the rank of lieutenant-colonel, and ordered to lead a group of colonists to Alta California. The Spanish were desirous of reinforcing their presence in Alta California as a buffer against Russian colonization of the Americas advancing from the north, and possibly establish a harbor that would give shelter to Spanish ships. The expedition got under way on October 23, 1775, and arrived at Mission San Gabriel Arcángel in January, 1776, the colonists having suffered greatly from the winter weather en route. Today this route is marked as the Juan Bautista de Anza National Historic Trail.

The expedition continued on to Monterey with the colonists. Having fulfilled his mission from the Viceroy, he continued on with Father Pedro Font and a party of twelve others exploring north and found an inland route to the San Francisco Bay described by Portolà. In Anza's diary on March 25, 1776, he states that he "arrived at the arroyo of San Joseph Cupertino (now Stevens Creek), which is useful only for travelers. Here we halted for the night, having come eight leagues in seven and a half hours. From this place we have seen at our right the estuary which runs from the port of San Francisco." Pressing on, Anza located the sites for the Presidio of San Francisco and Mission San Francisco de Asis in present-day San Francisco, California on March 28, 1776. He did not establish the settlement; it was established later by José Joaquín Moraga. While returning to Monterey, he located the original sites for Mission Santa Clara de Asis and the town of San José de Guadalupe (modern day San Jose, California), but again did not establish either settlement.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Bautista_de_Anza

Yuri Apr 7, 2020 11:23 PM

I just came across with this on the Worldometer:

An estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation *before* dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee

That's terrible. Are there more info on it?


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