SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Discussions (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

sopas ej Apr 7, 2021 8:16 PM

:previous:

Not directed at them, but some doctors are saying that the aversion to wearing masks is linked to anxiety and anxiety disorders, and people on the autism spectrum.

the urban politician Apr 7, 2021 8:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9241324)
I haven't worn a mask outside since the pandemic began, unless it's in a street that was converted to a pedestrian mall, or from my car to the store, I'll strap it on on the walk to the front door.

I do wear a mask every single time I am in indoors in a public place. Also, when I'm walking and come across a senior citizen (they're usually wearing a mask), I give them space by either crossing the street, or walking in the street. They're the most at risk and it's common courtesy towards them.

That's pretty much what I'm doing

sopas ej Apr 7, 2021 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9241442)
That's pretty much what I'm doing

Yeah, that's what I do too.

I also find it unhygienic to be constantly touching your mask; in the beginning, I used to take it completely off when I drove by myself, but I didn't like that I was constantly touching the mask to put it on when I left the car, so some time later I started putting it under my chin when I drive by myself or with my partner. I could be wrong but I think it's best to touch your mask as little as possible. People are often constantly tugging at their mask... when I need to adjust mine, I use the ear loops. When I'm out walking, and I'm not in a crowd, I'll wear the mask under my chin, and then when a large group or old people start approaching, I'll use the ear loops to put the mask over my mouth and nose.

craigs Apr 7, 2021 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9240865)
People walking around outdoors wearing masks are doing it more for show.. "Look at me! I'm cool and hip, I'm part of the 'In' crowd, I'm so progressive and 'scientific'!" Bozos.... :haha:

Sure is a good thing there's "no politics" in this thread, isn't it?

Camelback Apr 7, 2021 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 9241454)
Yeah, that's what I do too.

I also find it unhygienic to be constantly touching your mask; in the beginning, I used to take it completely off when I drove by myself, but I didn't like that I was constantly touching the mask to put it on when I left the car, so some time later I started putting it under my chin when I drive by myself or with my partner. I could be wrong but I think it's best to touch your mask as little as possible. People are often constantly tugging at their mask... when I need to adjust mine, I use the ear loops. When I'm out walking, and I'm not in a crowd, I'll wear the mask under my chin, and then when a large group or old people start approaching, I'll use the ear loops to put the mask over my mouth and nose.

Very true.

Mask waring increases face touching. When I wear a mask indoors, I am constantly adjusting it because unfortunately, I like to talk a lot and I have a big dome sitting on top of my neck (long Spanish face). After being in a public space, but before I take the mask off, I quirt some hand sanitizer in my hands, then take it off. After the CDC's recent study about surface spread, it probably didn't matter.

JManc Apr 7, 2021 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9241228)
^
Yes, this should be quite evident after all of this time that masks do little to nothing, unless youre wearing a medical grade mask, which probably 99% of people arent. In every major city in America, everyone has been wearing masks since the beginning and yet NYC fared very poorly early on, even though everyone was wearing masks. Just like how everyone is supposedly wearing masks in Brazil, yet cases are still through the roof there.

If masks did work than cities like Miami where people arent wearing them and in Texas where they are no longer mandated than shouldnt those cities be seeing more death than places where masks are mandated, even outside?

Nothing has changed here in Texas only that the mask requirement was passed from the state level to the local/ business level. You can't go anywhere without them on. They suck and I wear mine as little as often but I don't see the evidence where they do nothing and no one of any credibility ever said they were there to assist the wearer but those around them.

craigs Apr 7, 2021 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9241228)
^
Yes, this should be quite evident after all of this time that masks do little to nothing

Crackpot.

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelback (Post 9241324)
I haven't worn a mask outside since the pandemic began, unless it's in a street that was converted to a pedestrian mall, or from my car to the store, I'll strap it on on the walk to the front door.

I do wear a mask every single time I am in indoors in a public place. Also, when I'm walking and come across a senior citizen (they're usually wearing a mask), I give them space by either crossing the street, or walking in the street. They're the most at risk and it's common courtesy towards them.

Yeah, I think it's funny I am going on a anti-mask crusade right now but I actually wear my mask outdoors (which is usually just me walking my dog) about 90% of the time. Not because I feel safe, but because it was cold and a mask is really nice in the winter. Now I wear it mostly on my chin until my dog shits, then I slide it up so I don't have to pick up poop and then touch my mask.

Anyways, I do it because I don't like conflict or attention (surprise). But after Friday when I get vaccinated, I will no longer be wearing a mask outside. It will go in my back pocket until I get back inside. I'll be vaccinated and its getting hot as shit, so yeah.

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 9241384)
Still waiting for you to show data on that belief. There's plenty of data showing masks limit the travel of exhaled aerosols. What's less certain is the degree to which they inhibit inhalation of virus-containing droplets. Even if "marginal", nearly all virologists believe it helps some so the question remains why not do it?

As to epidemiologic data showing mass effectiveness, the epidemiology of this (and many viruses) is so complex that I doubt it's possible to convince people like you. Your mind is made up. Why you and 10023 are so bothered by the idea of wearing a simple mask is what's much more interesting (and, I believe, pathologic).

I think its crazy that no one can provide any data on how effective masks are when it comes to the spread of Covid.

Comparing heavily masked states vs less masked states shows pretty much no difference at this point. The real life data on the ground is showing it doesn't matter.

the urban politician Apr 7, 2021 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241580)
I think its crazy that no one can provide any data on how effective masks are when it comes to the spread of Covid.

Comparing heavily masked states vs less masked states shows pretty much no difference at this point. The real life data on the ground is showing it doesn't matter.

I think the problem is that you, and probably the overwhelming majority of the public and the folks here, understandably aren't schooled on how the medical community thinks and makes recommendations. There are not always YES and NO answers to questions.

It comes down to a Roman Numeral + Letter classification before we decide what to recommend to people, and the strength of that recommendation varies.

So a Class IA recommendation is the highest. A Class IC is much lower, while a class IIC recommendation is the lowest strength recommendation.

I would gather that mask wearing falls under IC (benefit way outweighs the miniscule risk of wearing a mask, and data is very limited, thus we are generally following expert opinion)

https://www.wikidoc.org/images/f/f0/...sification.JPG

Source: https://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/AC...ication_scheme

homebucket Apr 7, 2021 11:13 PM

Pretty good summary of the data here, with a table listing multiple studies showing positive outcomes with mask wearing.

Quote:

February 10, 2021
Effectiveness of Mask Wearing to Control Community Spread of SARS-CoV-2
John T. Brooks, MD1; Jay C. Butler, MD1
Author Affiliations Article Information
JAMA. 2021;325(10):998-999. doi:10.1001/jama.2021.1505

Prior to the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic, the efficacy of community mask wearing to reduce the spread of respiratory infections was controversial because there were no solid relevant data to support their use. During the pandemic, the scientific evidence has increased. Compelling data now demonstrate that community mask wearing is an effective nonpharmacologic intervention to reduce the spread of this infection, especially as source control to prevent spread from infected persons, but also as protection to reduce wearers’ exposure to infection.

...

Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.1 In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,3 and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products.

...

An increasing number of ecological studies have also provided persuasive evidence that universal mandatory mask wearing policies have been associated with reductions in the number or rate of infections and deaths (Table).
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2776536

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 11:39 PM

Couple of points:

1. Thanks for both of you for providing actual evidence, instead of just saying CRACKPOT!
2. Homebucket, that study (and one I checked out that was cited https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full...6.2020.1862409) have some elements that I think are important to point out. First, they mention that they didn't know if Covid was found in smaller aerosol particles (or something along those lines). That's an issue because masks are primarily stopping the larger particles. Second, they perform a fit test before the experiments. Normal humans don't do this. In fact, I would say a slight majority of people wearing masks either have them barely covering their nose or are not fit in any way, allowing a large amount of air to come out, which I assume they do on accident or on purpose so they can breath better. 3. A clothe mask fitted correctly, stops 51% of transmission. That's a lot higher than 0, to be sure, but its still 49% not effective even in a controlled environment. With improper wearing, I am sure that 51% goes down way further.
3. With all of that said, and I think those are important points, I'll give yall credit.

But this doesn't mean I still don't have questions about why we don't see massive disparities between highly-masked states vs. relatively unmasked states. We simply don't see the disparity. Of course there could be a million reasons why this is so, but that is kind of the point. I still don't think masks are as important as people make them out to be for the reasons I mentioned above.

In any case, I will not be wearing a mask outdoors starting Friday as all clinical and real life evidence shows that my chances of getting Covid and then spreading it are extremely small. And if this state doesn't lift their mask mandate in good time, I will simply go to Indiana to shop. Texas is a good case study, they pretty much have gone back to normal, Jmac mentioned (I believe) that sure, the mandate is gone but most places still require masks. I am sure that's the case in big cities and suburbs, but probably not the case in small towns. We saw 38,000 people, mostly unmasked, at a baseball game the other day so we definitely have something to look at in due time.

Acajack Apr 8, 2021 2:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet (Post 9241327)
I don't think so, though... Serious and independent docs all say that masks are something major to avoid spreading the virus and variants.
It makes a huge difference in public transportation, for instance. This was scientifically proven by epidemiologists already. They just watch their stats, then tell the media about their conclusions to make the general public aware.

I don't think there's any politics in that matter. The fact that it's annoying to wear it has nothing to do with it.

In fact, the French government grossly lied to the French population about masks a year ago. France didn't have any reserve of masks, so they told us - masks are useless. We don't have to wear any.
As soon as the French market was invaded by trillions of masks, they suddenly said - wearing it is mandatory.

Sounds a lot like what happened here.

photoLith Apr 8, 2021 3:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigs (Post 9241561)
Crackpot.

Don’t you have something better to do than being an ass at all times? How about you actually provide evidence like I did last night to a question you asked but instead you just decide to be a dick to be a dick like usual.

TWAK Apr 8, 2021 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9241887)
Don’t you have something better to do than being an ass at all times? How about you actually provide evidence like I did last night to a question you asked but instead you just decide to be a dick to be a dick like usual.

It will really hurt cities if people didn't get the vaccine because it would create a surge in mental health issues.
Quote:

Six months after being diagnosed with COVID-19, 1 in 3 patients also had experienced a psychiatric or neurological illness, mostly mood disorders but also strokes or dementia, a large new study shows.

About 1 in 8 of the patients (12.8%) were diagnosed for the first time with such an illness, most commonly anxiety or depression. Compared to control groups of people who had the flu or other non-COVID respiratory infections, first-ever neuropsychiatric diagnoses were almost twice as high.

The study, published Tuesday in The Lancet Psychiatry, used real-world health data on millions of people to gauge the incidence of 13 brain disorders. Anxiety, mood, and substance use disorders were most common, but the researchers also found worrying, if lower, rates of serious neurological complications, especially in patients who had been severely ill with COVID-19. In all COVID-19 patients, 0.6% developed a brain hemorrhage, 2.1% an ischemic stroke, and 0.7% dementia.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...ge-study-finds
I felt this was for the CE but since some people are hiding from the CE, I should bring in post-covid issues. Especially since they can impact a city (boom! on topic) especially out in the west coast.

photoLith Apr 8, 2021 4:34 AM

^
I didn’t say anything about the vaccines. I think it’s important that everyone gets them. I got the second moderna shot about 2 weeks ago.

CaliNative Apr 8, 2021 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith (Post 9241929)
^
I didn’t say anything about the vaccines. I think it’s important that everyone gets them. I got the second moderna shot about 2 weeks ago.

Did you have any negative side effects from the vaccine, especially after the second dose? Aches, pain, nausea, fatigue etc?

photoLith Apr 8, 2021 1:49 PM

^
First one got kinda sick, my arm hurt pretty darn good. Second one sucked, I had almost a 101 fever, basically felt like the flu and I took the day off from work. But it lasted about a day and then after about 48 hours felt fine. I wish I would have gotten the Pfizer one since nobody seems to get sick from that.

jtown,man Apr 8, 2021 2:30 PM

I left the hospital before my 15-minute "observation" time. I asked the nurse "do I have to sit here for 15 minutes or can I head out?" She was like, "yeah, just sign here and you're good to go."

I think the hype about the vaccine's side effects is just media driven because more people will get this vaccine in a short amount of time than at any other time in history, so it makes for good clicks.

Handro Apr 8, 2021 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9242141)
I left the hospital before my 15-minute "observation" time. I asked the nurse "do I have to sit here for 15 minutes or can I head out?" She was like, "yeah, just sign here and you're good to go."

I think the hype about the vaccine's side effects is just media driven because more people will get this vaccine in a short amount of time than at any other time in history, so it makes for good clicks.

What hype about side effects? I've read nothing in the media other than they are astoundingly safe... and even if your strawman were real, why would hospitals add a 15 minute wait time just to cater to your perceived "media hype"?

It's a safety measure because these vaccines were developed and distributed in record time. Even if only 1% of people have negative side effects, does it not behoove medical professionals charged with the health and safety of their patients to be cautious as we continue to expand eligibility only a few months into giving the vaccine to the general public?

How exhausting it must be to view literally everything as a conspiracy. Heres one: I couldn't find parking this morning because of street sweeping in the neighborhood, but it's actually a conspiracy between Chicago Streets and Sanition and the liberal media to scare people from using their cars, thus keeping them at home longer so the economy will shut down and we will be forced to become government charges. Diabolical, and a shame others are too blind to see it.


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.