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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

sopas ej Apr 7, 2021 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9241132)
Taiwan is doing really well (only 7 deaths from COVID in total), but they are a bit unique. First of all, it's an island nation so it's much easier to restrict travel in and out. You need to show a negative COVID test to even board a plane headed for Taiwan. They also required all inbound travelers, including Taiwanese citizens, to quarantine for 14 days, and failure to abide results in fines up to $35k USD. They make you buy a SIM card so they can track your location via your phone. They also have hotels set aside specifically for this purpose, and people aren't allowed to leave. It's $100/night with 3 meals included. There's also fines for mask noncompliance.

In other words, they've been taking it seriously from the beginning.

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homebucket (Post 9241132)
Taiwan is doing really well (only 7 deaths from COVID in total), but they are a bit unique. First of all, it's an island nation so it's much easier to restrict travel in and out. You need to show a negative COVID test to even board a plane headed for Taiwan. They also required all inbound travelers, including Taiwanese citizens, to quarantine for 14 days, and failure to abide results in fines up to $35k USD. They make you buy a SIM card so they can track your location via your phone. They also have hotels set aside specifically for this purpose, and people aren't allowed to leave. It's $100/night with 3 meals included. There's also fines for mask noncompliance.

You actually have to present a negative COVID test to board a plane to the United States, too. But... our government didn't enact the policy until January, lol. Fucking morons.

homebucket Apr 7, 2021 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 9241140)
In other words, they've been taking it seriously from the beginning.

Indeed.

Quote:

There’s also enforcement for those who don’t follow the rules. There are huge fines if people are caught not wearing masks in designated areas, such as the subway, and for breaking quarantine.

Social pressure also plays a part. Jin said that it’s become part of the culture in Taiwan to name and shame those who are not wearing masks in the subway or are breaking quarantine early. Those who do so might see their face pop up on a social media app.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/how-...ronavirus.html

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriandrade (Post 9240994)
Well, in Brazil everyone is using masks outside home. It would be the opposite here: if you show up without a mask, people will mistake you for those people who believe in all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories.

And it has done absolutely nothing for Brazil.

photoLith Apr 7, 2021 6:23 PM

^
Yes, this should be quite evident after all of this time that masks do little to nothing, unless youre wearing a medical grade mask, which probably 99% of people arent. In every major city in America, everyone has been wearing masks since the beginning and yet NYC fared very poorly early on, even though everyone was wearing masks. Just like how everyone is supposedly wearing masks in Brazil, yet cases are still through the roof there.

If masks did work than cities like Miami where people arent wearing them and in Texas where they are no longer mandated than shouldnt those cities be seeing more death than places where masks are mandated, even outside?

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241214)
And it has done absolutely nothing for Brazil.

Both cases per capita and deaths per capita are lower in Brazil than the U.S.

the urban politician Apr 7, 2021 6:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopas ej (Post 9241042)
My friend texted me a few hours ago; she's in Taiwan visiting family.

She told me it's soooo different there than in the US right now; people are all out and about like everything's normal, they're only required to wear masks when they go inside stores and inside the trains.

Our media hasn't really been covering Taiwan, either (apart from their political situation with China), but Taiwan is one of the few places in the world that has successfully controlled COVID.

I sorta think we'll have reached this state by summer

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9241236)
Both cases per capita and deaths per capita is lower in Brazil than the U.S.

Barely.


And currently, they are seeing about three times as many deaths as the US, with an obviously much smaller population.

the urban politician Apr 7, 2021 6:44 PM

I think it's very hard to precisely measure if/how masking helps. I believe the experts and the arguments that, when used widely, it lowers infection rates and especially lowers hospitalization and death rates. The rationale (ie lowered innoculum) is convincing enough to me.

I don't know if I want to live in a culture of shaming like Taiwan, though. I think they kicked ass with COVID and all, but there seems to be a bit of an 'Authoritarianism Porn' element with some people in this forum that baffles me. If you look at the big picture, I still prefer living in a Western Society. And deep down, so do you.

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241260)
Barely.


And currently, they are seeing about three times as many deaths as the US, with an obviously much smaller population.

Not sure I understand your point. The U.S. isn't doing better than Brazil. It's doing worse. This is also Fall in Brazil, which is when coronavirus infections start to surge.

bnk Apr 7, 2021 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9241152)
You actually have to present a negative COVID test to board a plane to the United States, too. But... our government didn't enact the policy until January, lol. Fucking morons.

No you don't.

I flew to California in February. I don't even remember getting my temperature checked. Not one covid question asked that I can recall.

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnk (Post 9241277)
No you don't.

I flew to California in February. I don't even remember getting my temperature checked. Not one covid question asked that I can recall.

From outside of the United States?

Either way, the questionnaire that you have to fill out to print your boarding pass should have at least asked you about COVID symptoms and whether you recently tested positive.

homebucket Apr 7, 2021 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 9241268)
I think it's very hard to precisely measure if/how masking helps. I believe the experts and the arguments that, when used widely, it lowers infection rates and especially lowers hospitalization and death rates. The rationale (ie lowered innoculum) is convincing enough to me.

I don't know if I want to live in a culture of shaming like Taiwan, though. I think they kicked ass with COVID and all, but there seems to be a bit of an 'Authoritarianism Porn' element with some people in this forum that baffles me. If you look at the big picture, I still prefer living in a Western Society. And deep down, so do you.

The downside of doing well with COVID is that you're much lower on the vaccine priority list. I believe Taiwan and New Zealand are both near the bottom in vaccination rates. So while they're doing well in their island "bubbles", they can't really fully open up to outsiders and won't be able to for a long time. I think Canada is seeing a similar effect, although it does appear to be gradually ramping up.

jtown,man Apr 7, 2021 7:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9241270)
Not sure I understand your point. The U.S. isn't doing better than Brazil. It's doing worse. This is also Fall in Brazil, which is when coronavirus infections start to surge.

Right now we are doing much better.

That's the point.

And also, we have had lulls and surges in the US, did masks play a part in that?

The surge that we just got out of, was that the result of everyone in our large cities deciding to not mask up? Of course not.

Masks are marginal in impact, their benefits are insanely exaggerated for political reasons.

Camelback Apr 7, 2021 7:15 PM

I haven't worn a mask outside since the pandemic began, unless it's in a street that was converted to a pedestrian mall, or from my car to the store, I'll strap it on on the walk to the front door.

I do wear a mask every single time I am in indoors in a public place. Also, when I'm walking and come across a senior citizen (they're usually wearing a mask), I give them space by either crossing the street, or walking in the street. They're the most at risk and it's common courtesy towards them.

mousquet Apr 7, 2021 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241304)
Masks are marginal in impact, their benefits are insanely exaggerated for political reasons.

I don't think so, though... Serious and independent docs all say that masks are something major to avoid spreading the virus and variants.
It makes a huge difference in public transportation, for instance. This was scientifically proven by epidemiologists already. They just watch their stats, then tell the media about their conclusions to make the general public aware.

I don't think there's any politics in that matter. The fact that it's annoying to wear it has nothing to do with it.

In fact, the French government grossly lied to the French population about masks a year ago. France didn't have any reserve of masks, so they told us - masks are useless. We don't have to wear any.
As soon as the French market was invaded by trillions of masks, they suddenly said - wearing it is mandatory.

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241304)
Right now we are doing much better.

That's the point.

And also, we have had lulls and surges in the US, did masks play a part in that?

The surge that we just got out of, was that the result of everyone in our large cities deciding to not mask up? Of course not.

Masks are marginal in impact, their benefits are insanely exaggerated for political reasons.

Who came up with the idea of wearing masks?

iheartthed Apr 7, 2021 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mousquet (Post 9241327)
In fact, the French government grossly lied to the French population about masks a year ago. France didn't have any reserve of masks, so they told us - masks are useless. We don't have to wear any.
As soon as the French market was invaded by trillions of masks, they suddenly said - wearing it is mandatory.

Yeah, that's the same thing that happened in the U.S. They downplayed the effectiveness of masks because they were afraid there wasn't a large enough supply for medical workers. It's ridiculous that we're more than a year into this pandemic and someone would seriously argue that masks are useless, which is contrary to what just about every public health agency in the world is saying right now.

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2021 7:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed (Post 9241328)
Who came up with the idea of wearing masks?

Your doctor has been wearing a mask while operating on you for many decades to block the exhalation of germs into the open surgical wound. I belief it was Joseph Lister in the late 19th century who promoted the concept of antisepsis in surgery and the idea of wearing masks under other circumstances is a natural offshoot (assuming you think Pasteur was correct about microbes).

Pedestrian Apr 7, 2021 8:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtown,man (Post 9241304)
Masks are marginal in impact, their benefits are insanely exaggerated for political reasons.

Still waiting for you to show data on that belief. There's plenty of data showing masks limit the travel of exhaled aerosols. What's less certain is the degree to which they inhibit inhalation of virus-containing droplets. Even if "marginal", nearly all virologists believe it helps some so the question remains why not do it?

As to epidemiologic data showing mass effectiveness, the epidemiology of this (and many viruses) is so complex that I doubt it's possible to convince people like you. Your mind is made up. Why you and 10023 are so bothered by the idea of wearing a simple mask is what's much more interesting (and, I believe, pathologic).


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