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-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

Pedestrian Jul 11, 2020 3:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend (Post 8977515)
A check requiring even 15 minutes for results will bog down the economy and would be unacceptable to the public. A test to enter every place of business or other public building would be ridiculous.

The anti-body test is useless in determining who is contagious. One was developed in this city and was not reliable because the swab was not suitable. After several weeks, it still has not been re-launched. Launching anything widely will be challenging because of the manufacturing requirements to make sufficient volumes. That is why testing could not be made broadly available for several weeks after the pandemic became worldwide.

Ultimately, an effective vaccine will produce the best outcome and our resources need to be focused in that area. Also effective treatments for people who become very ill with COVID.

Which is why the test I gave as an example is not an antibody test but a rapid PCR test.

Yes, a 15 minute delay might hold up some situations unacceptably and in those cases I'll continue to argue so few people are kept away by temperature checks they should just assume everybody is contagious and operate accordingly.

But in the case of businesses, for example, incoming employees can wait 15 minutes. Same with people entering many offices and businesses as customers. I'd argue even restaurant and bar patrons could wait that long for a table--many already wait longer for a popular restaurant: Come to the place, get your test, go away wherever you like and they text you when your test result is complete and your table is ready. I've been to plenty of resturants that already work this way except without the testing aspect.

As far as the shortages and other holdups in various testing methods, the same companies working on more rapid methods are trying to make them so that they avoid the bottlenecks such as by not using reagents in short supply or made only overseas. It's not an unsolvable problem but it does have a lead time which we are well into. Some people argue we could avoid the bottlenecks with government leadership. Actually, I think having many businesses working on many approaches is more likely to lead to the results we want which is some better way to weed out contagious people than the way-too-crude and imprecise temperature checks (have you ever considered that somebody who KNOWS they are sick can get around the temperature checks by popping some aspirin or tylenol an hour or so before getting checked?).

Pedestrian Jul 11, 2020 3:18 AM

This nurse is so sweet it almost makes me want get COVID and be admitted to her ICU (almost):

Video Link

Minato Ku Jul 12, 2020 2:28 AM

Report from Paris

I went to the Champs Elysees.
It was pretty busy, despite the lack of foreign visitors.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...750efe5c_c.jpg
Avenue des Champs Elysées, 8e by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Then I went in Beaugrenelle in the southwest of central Paris.
Notice the advert with "vive le retour de la liberté" "long live the return of freedom" for this mall.
The statue of Liberty is not out of place in this advert, the biggest parisian replica of it is located a little further west of this street on Grenelle bridge.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...6f580076_c.jpg
Rue Linois, 15e by Minato ku, sur Flickr
There are still a few queues to enter in some shops. Mainly the clothing, cosmetics, phone/internet provider shops and post offices.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0cd35219_c.jpg
Rue Linois, 15e by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Here the queue to enter in the mall is just due to bag control.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...067f5dab_c.jpg
Rue Linois, 15e by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Masks are mandatory inside the mall and mall security officers provide masks to those who haven't.

Some malls have put traffic directions for pedestrians. Notice how people ignore them. :rolleyes:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e9aa6c9b_c.jpg
Westfield Forum des Halles by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Not visible in this picture but not everybody were respecting them there.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fd268339_c.jpg
Westfield 4Temps by Minato ku, sur Flickr

During confinement and at the beginning of the deconfinement, there were queue to enter in the supermarket, not anymore.
Supermarkets have plastic shields for cashiers.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...5dda158e_c.jpg
Cora, Arcueil by Minato ku, sur Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...56bd53e0_c.jpg
Auchan, 4temps by Minato ku, sur Flickr
Self-checkout are sperated by plastic shields. This remove the need to close half of them.

Almost every bus stops in the City of Paris have hand sanitiser.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...29914492_c.jpg
Abribus by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Obviouly, restaurants and cafés are pretty busy. This is Paris.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...c462b274_c.jpg
Rue Daguerre, 14.e by Minato ku, sur Flickr

What I notice in Paris that people tend to dislike wearing mask in outside but they wear it in in enclosed spaces like shops and the public transportation.
There is often some who take off their masks when they are on the phone. :rolleyes:

Yuri Jul 12, 2020 12:09 PM

^^
I noticed the lack of masks. In São Paulo, things are slowly getting back to normal, but virtually everybody wears masks when outside home.

------------

Back to stats, death toll in Brazil is at 71,500 and 1.84 million people has been infected. Moving average deaths is at 1,000 per day and it's been there since the first week of June.

Charts with the moving average for the country and states: https://g1.globo.com/bemestar/corona...imprensa.ghtml

10023 Jul 12, 2020 9:48 PM

No one is wearing masks in most of Europe. I was out in Covent Garden and Soho today and it felt pretty normal, BUT they have closed roads to cars and put tables out for al fresco dining. This should be done every year from May to September.

I would post some photos but don’t have a hosted account anywhere.

This week I’m going to Italy for the next month or so, will report from there. :)

10023 Jul 12, 2020 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8977619)
Which is why the test I gave as an example is not an antibody test but a rapid PCR test.

Yes, a 15 minute delay might hold up some situations unacceptably and in those cases I'll continue to argue so few people are kept away by temperature checks they should just assume everybody is contagious and operate accordingly.

But in the case of businesses, for example, incoming employees can wait 15 minutes. Same with people entering many offices and businesses as customers. I'd argue even restaurant and bar patrons could wait that long for a table--many already wait longer for a popular restaurant: Come to the place, get your test, go away wherever you like and they text you when your test result is complete and your table is ready. I've been to plenty of resturants that already work this way except without the testing aspect.

As far as the shortages and other holdups in various testing methods, the same companies working on more rapid methods are trying to make them so that they avoid the bottlenecks such as by not using reagents in short supply or made only overseas. It's not an unsolvable problem but it does have a lead time which we are well into. Some people argue we could avoid the bottlenecks with government leadership. Actually, I think having many businesses working on many approaches is more likely to lead to the results we want which is some better way to weed out contagious people than the way-too-crude and imprecise temperature checks (have you ever considered that somebody who KNOWS they are sick can get around the temperature checks by popping some aspirin or tylenol an hour or so before getting checked?).

There is absolutely no fucking way that I’m having my nose swabbed every day when I get to the office. I will continue to work from home, and people who can’t work from home shouldn’t have to submit to that either.

mousquet Jul 12, 2020 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978980)
No one is wearing masks in most of Europe.

That is certainly not reasonable when the pandemic has been worse than ever elsewhere in the world.
Local politicians are worried about their agenda, so they quickly would forget about it and focus on recovering the damaged economy exclusively.

I'd rather trust scientists than politicians, even when some would be more or less involved in private businesses of their own. And they are warning us right now; a 2nd outbreak is coming up. It is almost unavoidable. They don't even know whether any vaccine can actually be developed on the short run. Mind you, AIDS has been known since the 1980s, and there's still no available vaccine for it. Only very constraining treatments to keep patients alive. That may not be the same type of virus at all, who actually knows how vicious those invisible things can be? Neither you nor I do.

So, wearing a face mask indoors is necessary, just in case. I don't do it outdoors ('cause I fucking hate it), but whenever I get in any store of any kind, I put a face mask on. There's no choice for now. This is the civilized attitude at the moment.

Another complete lockdown would be unbearable and would ruin the economy once and for all. So we got to stay pretty cautious until further notice.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2020 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978980)

I would post some photos but don’t have a hosted account anywhere.

Shutterfly is free and pretty reliable.

Pedestrian Jul 12, 2020 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978984)
There is absolutely no fucking way that I’m having my nose swabbed every day when I get to the office. I will continue to work from home, and people who can’t work from home shouldn’t have to submit to that either.

Lord, you are a sensitive soul.

Fortunately, the new rapid PCR tests don't require your nose to be swabbed, though. They use saliva. Would you spit into a test tube every day?

Quote:

Coronavirus Blood Test (Antibody) Vs. Swab Test (PCR) Vs. Saliva Test - Differences & Which One Is Best?
Khang T. Vuong, MHA
June 30, 2020
Jacqueline Slobin, University of Virginia Major in Global Public Health & Alyssa Orcuilo, The City University of New York
Update June 30th 2020: There are currently two main tests for the COVID-19 virus, the PCR swab test and antibody blood test. The PCR test has recently been expanded to allow sample collection via a saliva sample . . . .

What Is The Saliva Test? And How Does It Work?

As of April 13, 2020 the FDA approved the use of saliva samples as a means of emergency testing for COVID-19. This test is less invasive than taking a nasopharyngeal sample and involves giving a saliva sample in a tube. Like the nasal swab, the saliva test detects active COVID-19 infection in patients who are experiencing symptoms or who may have been exposed to someone with coronavirus.

How does it work?

The new saliva test uses a similar protocol to that of the nasopharyngeal RT-PCR test. The test amplifies a segment of the viral genetic code to detect the presence of the virus.

This test was developed at Rutgers University and is being used by some companies for at home administration. While the saliva tests are less commonly used than the nasal swabs, they are successful in decreasing the risk of health care professionals who previously had to come into close contact with patients in order to administer a test . . . .
https://www.talktomira.com/post/coro...st-differences

I believe a number of companies are developing saliva tests now, not just based on the Ritgers test and some are of the rapid variety producing results in minutes.

Crawford Jul 12, 2020 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978980)
No one is wearing masks in most of Europe. I was out in Covent Garden and Soho today and it felt pretty normal, BUT they have closed roads to cars and put tables out for al fresco dining. This should be done every year from May to September.

I would post some photos but don’t have a hosted account anywhere.

This week I’m going to Italy for the next month or so, will report from there. :)

So are Europeans taking normal summer holidays? I have German relatives in Spain and Italy right now, and almost certain both flew (as they live in Hamburg and Ruhr). That strikes me as bizarre, even with the controlled situation in Europe.

Driving, yeah, and to rural areas, sure, but I cannot imagine boarding a plane for a city or resort vacation right now, anywhere on the planet.

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2020 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978984)
There is absolutely no fucking way that I’m having my nose swabbed every day when I get to the office. I will continue to work from home, and people who can’t work from home shouldn’t have to submit to that either.

FLASH NEWS!! 10023 gets coronavirus test:

Video Link

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2020 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8979016)
Driving, yeah, and to rural areas, sure, but I cannot imagine boarding a plane for a city or resort vacation right now, anywhere on the planet.

It seems like they are becoming totally complacent over there and if things are as they seem, they will regret it. This virus is too much endemic everywhere now to really disappear. The reappearance when precautions let up may take a while but will happen.

iheartthed Jul 13, 2020 2:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8978980)
No one is wearing masks in most of Europe. I was out in Covent Garden and Soho today and it felt pretty normal, BUT they have closed roads to cars and put tables out for al fresco dining. This should be done every year from May to September.

I would post some photos but don’t have a hosted account anywhere.

This week I’m going to Italy for the next month or so, will report from there. :)

Maybe in the U.K. The rest of Europe has been wearing masks.

Fresh Jul 13, 2020 4:03 AM

Very little mask wearing here in Australia outside of the Asian community (who traditionally have been more likely to wear them anyway),

This might change with a seeming resurgence of the virus in Melbourne (200+ cases a day, they're re-entering lockdown), but here in Sydney we're only getting 5-10 new cases a day and people are becoming veeeeerry complacent.

National death toll from Corona since the pandemic started is 108.

Edit: Melbourne put a bunch of people in high rise social housing into 'Hard Lockdown' and wouldn't let them leave their apartments for 5 days. I'm not impressed with these Chinese style tactics and it was disturbing to see how many Australians were happy to let it go ahead because it's mainly junkies and refugees living there'

https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ents-off-guard

10023 Jul 13, 2020 6:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 8979016)
So are Europeans taking normal summer holidays? I have German relatives in Spain and Italy right now, and almost certain both flew (as they live in Hamburg and Ruhr). That strikes me as bizarre, even with the controlled situation in Europe.

Driving, yeah, and to rural areas, sure, but I cannot imagine boarding a plane for a city or resort vacation right now, anywhere on the planet.

Most people are staying in their own countries, but of course Northern Europeans are more likely to travel for better weather. The French are pretty much all staying in France (because why not), but the Germans are off to Spain, Portugal, Greece, etc. I keep getting emails from Aegean Airlines for really cheap flights (and kids fly free). I’m flying to Italy tomorrow and will be there for a while.

Pedestrian Jul 13, 2020 7:05 AM

^^You know, I just checked. San Francisco, where I live, has had 5.6 COVID deaths/100,000 population. Even Maricopa county, AZ (Phoenix) where they are semi-paniced, has had "only" 26.6 deaths per 100,000 and Miami-Dade, FL 42.5 deaths/100,000.

London has had 137.6 deaths/100,000. But it's London where 10023 is going out to a dine-in restaurant and one presumes a pub from time to time.

Something's wrong here and I don't think it's in San Francisco.

Statistical source (except London): https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...need-to-read_2

Crawford Jul 13, 2020 9:51 AM

To be fair, though, relative risk assessment is more a point-in-time calculation. London undoubtedly has a far higher death toll than Phoenix or Miami, but I don't think anyone would seriously argue that it's a riskier location, right now.

I mean, the tri-state region was hit hardest in the U.S., by far, but no one would argue that Phoenix or Miami are less risky than NYC right now. NYC is now recording 0 daily deaths and around 0.5% positive tests, so next-to-zero. It's pretty much the safest place in the U.S. at this moment (going only by Covid infection and deaths).

Innsertnamehere Jul 13, 2020 11:36 AM

NYC has what, an estimated 20% infection rate already? That level of antibodies alone will make a difference in slowing spread too.

the urban politician Jul 13, 2020 12:29 PM

Generally people in NE Illinois (Chicagoland) are pretty good about wearing masks.

However, here and there I see "defiant" types, usually blue collar types who simply decided that mask wearing in public doesn't apply to them.

I spoke to a former nurse at a gas station a few weeks back (while I was wearing a mask) who said that she thinks masks are "stupid". I had to explain to her why wearing a mask is our best way to preserve some normalcy.

SIGSEGV Jul 13, 2020 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the urban politician (Post 8979336)
Generally people in NE Illinois (Chicagoland) are pretty good about wearing masks.

However, here and there I see "defiant" types, usually blue collar types who simply decided that mask wearing in public doesn't apply to them.

I spoke to a former nurse at a gas station a few weeks back (while I was wearing a mask) who said that she thinks masks are "stupid". I had to explain to her why wearing a mask is our best way to preserve some normalcy.

Do you notice a significant difference between Illinois and Wisconsin?


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