SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Discussions (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   How Is Covid-19 Impacting Life in Your City? (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=242036)

Pedestrian Jul 9, 2020 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV (Post 8975680)
some fraction of people sick with COVID-19 will have high temperatures. One would hope that such people would not go out to a restaurant, but we know that's not the case. So this will reduce the number of COVID-positive patrons by some amount (whatever the fraction of COVID-positive patrons with fevers is). It may not be 10%, but it's more than 0.

I doubt very much that many people feeling significantly sick with COVID or anything else are heading out to restaurants--one much more often hears of people feeling crushingly bad or sleeping for days. I'm more worried about the small number of people who might feel sick but need the paycheck they earn by WORKING in restaurants (and supermarkets and elsewhere). But I still don't think taking peoples' temperatures catches enough of them to matter much and it gives a false ense of security. I assume every other person I deal with in the public realm could be infected.

I'm not opposed to temperature taking. I just don't think it accomplishes as much as most people--apparently some here--think it does. And I find it ludicrous that MM articles make it sound really effective when most people with COVID are either too sick to be out and about or have no symtpoms including fever.

Acajack Jul 9, 2020 6:45 PM

First world problems I know but I recently noticed that the selection of fine cheeses at my local supermarket has greatly diminished. It's maybe half of what is usually there. (A significant chunk are imported from France so I gather there are transport and supply issues at play.)

Pedestrian Jul 9, 2020 6:50 PM

Anyway, how is COVID affecting one of my "cities", i.e. southern AZ?

Quote:

ARIZONA CROSSED THE 100,000 COVID CASES MARK 7/6, CASES GROWING BY 3000+ DAILY: On June 8, we had only 27,678 cases in Arizona with 1047 deaths. Compare that to the 108,614 cases and 1963 deaths we have as of July 8. Our metrics are also changing, particularly in the number of deaths for those under 65 and cases in those under 55--both are increasing, with cases increasing rapidly. Tucson is sending COVID patients to other areas or even out of state for treatment (Tucson Daily Star, 7/7). The COVID positive percentage rate of those tested has risen to over 11%. Dr. Theresa Cullen, Pima County Health Director, said that the emergency room situation has gone from stable last week to “without equivocation” critical this week. County officials are actively talking about an alternative care site in Pima County such as the Convention Center or the vacant Tucson Heart Hospital. Note that the AZ Dashboard’s Hospital Bed Availability Metric is for the whole state, not a specific area. Outlying area hospitals may have beds while Tucson or Phoenix may not.

On Monday, Dr. Anthony Fauci noted that the average age of coronavirus patients had dropped roughly 15 years. [I missed that . . . WOW]

According to the Green Valley News 7/8/2020, Santa Cruz County’s per-capita rate of new COVID cases over the previous seven days was the 14th highest among the nation’s total counties. Be careful down there!
email from Green Valley [AZ] Coordinating Council

Santa Cruz County abuts the border with Mexico (biggest town=Nogales) . . . like Imperial County CA. Again, maybe Texas is different, but this seems like more evidence that there is spread to and from Mexico. Like Imperial County, where the Mexican city of Mexicali is the dominant metro in the area, Nogales, Sonora is much more populous than Nogales, AZ . . . and poorer/more crowded.

This is the 2 Nogaleses--Mexico is to the right of the border fence:

https://3.cdnpt.com/Destinations/107...29612360-L.jpg
https://www.google.com/search?rls=en...OntkSZyI054QJM

Pedestrian Jul 9, 2020 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8975998)
First world problems I know but I recently noticed that the selection of fine cheeses at my local supermarket has greatly diminished. It's maybe half of what is usually there. (A significant chunk are imported from France so I gather there are transport and supply issues at play.)

"Fine" cheeses are mostly aged so likely manufactured pre-COVID. That means the issue is probably transport and not necessarily in France or trans-Atlantic.

SteveD Jul 9, 2020 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8975981)
I doubt very much that many people feeling significantly sick with COVID or anything else are heading out to restaurants--one much more often hears of people feeling crushingly bad or sleeping for days. I'm more worried about the small number of people who might feel sick but need the paycheck they earn by WORKING in restaurants (and supermarkets and elsewhere). But I still don't think taking peoples' temperatures catches enough of them to matter much and it gives a false ense of security. I assume every other person I deal with in the public realm could be infected.

I'm not opposed to temperature taking. I just don't think it accomplishes as much as most people--apparently some here--think it does. And I find it ludicrous that MM articles make it sound really effective when most people with COVID are either too sick to be out and about or have no symtpoms including fever.

We have a small commercial node in our neighborhood with about 20 or so bars and restaurants. A few closed down completely and have not yet re-opened. Most were limping along on curbside pickup and delivery service orders. More recently most have opened up patios, outdoor table areas, etc. In the last week three have had to shut completely down with employees testing positive for THE VID.

Acajack Jul 9, 2020 7:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8976013)
"Fine" cheeses are mostly aged so likely manufactured pre-COVID. That means the issue is probably transport and not necessarily in France or trans-Atlantic.

I admit to having no idea of the time elapsed between the moment of production in France and the moment it ends up in my grocery store.

Pedestrian Jul 9, 2020 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8976056)
I admit to having no idea of the time elapsed between the moment of production in France and the moment it ends up in my grocery store.

Soft cheeses like Brie are aged about 4-5 weeks so they could be affected. Hard cheeses like Parmigiano Reggiano are aged several years. "Fresh" cheeses like ricotta aren't aged (which is why those are usually locally sourced).

Minato Ku Jul 9, 2020 8:20 PM

It's getting harder and harder to respect distancing in Paris metro.
It's becoming much busier than just after the lockdown.

Many seats are prohibited but people no longer respect it.
The good news is that everybody is wearing a mask.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...bd181649_c.jpg
Ligne 14 by Minato ku, sur Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2604b027_c.jpg
Paris metro, ligne 14 by Minato ku, sur Flickr

Pedestrian Jul 9, 2020 9:11 PM

^^Viewing the Mona Lisa NOW:

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/202...7-s800-c85.jpg
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...ans-big-crowds

Distancing?? Fugeddaboudit.

Crawford Jul 9, 2020 9:19 PM

I think the NYT had an article on Louvre opening, and officials expected roughly 20% of normal attendance, which makes sense. The U.S. and China alone are probably nearly half of Paris' tourist traffic, and I'd be surprised if French nationals amount to even a quarter (though EU totals are no doubt well above 25%).

This will be an issue in the U.S. too, but to a lesser extent, given the larger domestic market. Roughly 1/3 of visitors to the Met are foreign nationals. Over 20% OF Disney visitors are foreign nationals. And even domestic visitors won't want to fly until there's a vaccine, so recovery will take time.

mhays Jul 9, 2020 9:29 PM

Temperature checks are a way to keep people out of the jobsite when they wouldn't choose to otherwise. Absolutely they're important and effective.

Workplace safety culture is a thing.

Pedestrian Jul 10, 2020 6:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8976257)
Temperature checks are a way to keep people out of the jobsite when they wouldn't choose to otherwise. Absolutely they're important and effective.

Workplace safety culture is a thing.

Even the WHO is coming around to admitting how little use they are. The way to keep infected people out of a job site is frequent rapid testing.

Quote:

WHO Allows for Coronavirus Transmission by Tiny Air Particles, Before Symptoms
By Drew Hinshaw and Lukas I. Alpert
July 9, 2020 6:06 pm ET

The World Health Organization revised its guidelines on two key issues concerning how the new coronavirus spreads, saying people who are talking or singing may expel the virus through tiny airborne particles that float through cramped and unventilated spaces such as restaurants or nightclubs.

The WHO also said Thursday that nearly half of all coronavirus transmission might come from individuals who have yet to show symptoms and don’t know they are sick [symptoms, of course, include fever].

Both changes mark a shift from previous versions of the guidelines, which had said the disease was spread by larger droplets and principally by people who already feel ill.

Many scientists had pressed the WHO to revise its guidelines on the matters, citing emerging research on how the coronavirus spreads.

The revised recommendations suggest stronger measures might be needed to control spread of the coronavirus, just as states such as Florida and Texas mull a second round of lockdowns. Until now, the WHO had emphasized that the coronavirus mainly spreads through large droplets expelled by sick people talking within 3 feet of another individual.

If a substantial number of Covid-19 infections are coming from individuals who feel fine, temperature checks at airports, schools, hospitals and other places where many people gather wouldn’t offer sufficient protection and stronger measures would be needed . . . .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-all...&page=4&pos=19

Pedestrian Jul 10, 2020 6:48 PM

https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/12/75/...60/5/940x0.jpg
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-15395780.php

But the Bay Area numbers have been spiked by the massive outbreak (over 1000 cases) at San Quentin prison.

Gantz Jul 10, 2020 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc (Post 8972881)
Florida's population is also more evenly spread out than New York so the whole state could get clobbered where as mostly downstate bore the brunt of CV-19. I have relatives in the Tampa area and am more worried about them than I was about family back in NY or even here.

New York's worst wave also happened when there weren't much testing. It was much more rampant here than the stats show. I read that 68% of people tested positive for COVID antibodies in Elmhurst, Queens for example. It also did not help that the Governor ordered elderly homes to take in COVID patients...

mhays Jul 10, 2020 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedestrian (Post 8977156)
Even the WHO is coming around to admitting how little use they are. The way to keep infected people out of a job site is frequent rapid testing.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/who-all...&page=4&pos=19

Wow did you misread that. It said "insufficient protection." It didn't say they were of little use.

Pedestrian Jul 10, 2020 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8977239)
Wow did you misread that. It said "insufficient protection." It didn't say they were of little use.

You really, REALLY want to believe that effort keeps you safe, don't you? Sorry, it doesn't. It is "insufficient protection" and what is sufficient makes temperature checks irrelevant (i.e "of little use"): Frequent PCR testing with rapidly available results.

The WHO admits its errors, which have been ceaseless in this pandemic (which it refused to call one until it was too late), slowly. I'm simply telling you what they will be saying a year from now. All that temperature checking was a lot of effort that didn't really accomplish much. I'm not saying it accomplished nothing and maybe at the beginning it was all we could do . . . maybe . . . but we ought to be able to do better now and the effort put into checking temperatures of people who feel fine should be redirected.

mhays Jul 10, 2020 9:16 PM

You're playing semantics.

Temperature checks will remain a workplace essential until there's a better method.

Pedestrian Jul 10, 2020 9:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 8977361)
You're playing semantics.

Temperature checks will remain a workplace essential until there's a better method.

This back and forth is almost as much a waste of time as temperature checks. Temperature checks will not keep spreaders out of anywhere. That's the bottom line.

There are better methods: A variety of test methods are now available that produce results in minutes and more are being developed. Here's about just one:

Quote:

New Coronavirus Test Gives Results in Minutes, Not Days
By Patrick Healy • Published July 7, 2020 • Updated on July 8, 2020 at 9:08 am

A new COVID-19 rapid test promises results before you leave the clinic, when you still may be contagious, not days later.

Rapid blood testing for determining if a patient has antibodies has been available several months, but the tougher challenge is getting quick results when the person in infected and contagious.

Like other COVID-19 tests, a new rapid test developed by Quidel starts with a swab sample. But this new rapid test is less invasive, and less uncomfortable.

The sample needs to incubate for 15 minutes before it goes into a machine that requires 10 more seconds to process. People getting the test can socially distance on the lawn out front until they receive their results . . . .

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/l...e-day/2392487/

It is cheaper and easier for everything from bars to churches to businesses just to do temperature checks so that is what they will do if people continue to think that is a reliable, or in the WHO's words "sufficient", method of determining infectivity. But it isn't and we need to move on to methods that are a little more expensive and difficult but MUCH more reliable. And in circumstances where these methods just aren't worth their cost or effort, then assume everybody is infectious and act accordingly.

mhays Jul 10, 2020 11:47 PM

They do keep some spreaders out. People routinely get turned away by temperature check, and by their knowledge that one is coming. This is fact.

lrt's friend Jul 11, 2020 12:15 AM

A check requiring even 15 minutes for results will bog down the economy and would be unacceptable to the public. A test to enter every place of business or other public building would be ridiculous.

The anti-body test is useless in determining who is contagious. One was developed in this city and was not reliable because the swab was not suitable. After several weeks, it still has not been re-launched. Launching anything widely will be challenging because of the manufacturing requirements to make sufficient volumes. That is why testing could not be made broadly available for several weeks after the pandemic became worldwide.

Ultimately, an effective vaccine will produce the best outcome and our resources need to be focused in that area. Also effective treatments for people who become very ill with COVID.


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.