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-   -   Phoenix Development News (3) (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173764)

Vicelord John Jan 25, 2011 4:26 AM

So handicapped activists fucked it for The rest of us

HX_Guy Jan 25, 2011 4:40 AM

Couldn't they make dual entrances? It's such a shame that such a beautiful building ends up with it's "back" facing the street. Typical of Phoenix I guess. :(

exit2lef Jan 25, 2011 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by District8 (Post 5138303)
The reason that the original front entrance won't/can't be the front entrance now is because it is not handicap accessible. In order to make it handicap accessible would require very unsightly ramps running along the front of the building. The landing is extremely high, so the ramps would be extensive. Take a look at the Grace Court School at 8th Ave and Adams. Same problem except the landing was probably 5 feet lower than the Monroe School. The accessible access in in the rear. Also, there is no fence, wrought iron or chain link, at the Grace Court School and it looks great. I don't know why there is a fence at the Monroe School but it looks very bad.

Thanks for explaining the ADA angle. Please see my earlier post for an explanation of why a fence is necessary. Knowing that we're stuck with the rear entrance and some sort of fence, I really wish the Children's Museum would make it a high priority to install a more attractive fence, along with a clearly marked gate and pedestrian path from 7th St. that is reliably open during museum hours.

Don B. Jan 26, 2011 3:15 PM

Monroe School is a symptom of much that is wrong with Arizona - we are too cheap for our own good. Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

An elegant fence (wrought iron or something) and a proper ramp would fix the problems, but all of that costs money.

Phoenix doesn't have much money, especially compared to older cities. Take a look at annual city budgets (source -- http://www.census.gov/statab/ccdb/cc07_tabC6.pdf):

Phoenix, 1.4 million: $2.2 billion
Boston, 600,000: $2.5 billion
San Francisco, 800,000: $4.8 billion
Denver, 600,000: $1.9 billion
Baltimore, 600,000: $2.4 billion
Dallas, 1.1 million: $2 billion
Seattle, 600,000: $1.2 billion

Per capita city government expenditures:

San Francisco: $6,000
Boston: $4,166
Baltimore: $4,000
Denver: $3,166
Seattle: $2,000
Dallas: $1,818
Phoenix: $1,571

Put another way, Phoenix is four times the size of Buffalo, NY, in terms of population, but has about the same number of municipal employees.

People in Arizona like their governments and their buildings small. And many people here like things that way. If you dare to criticize things, then you are told to "move if you don't like it." A very greedy bunch of people if you ask me...by and large. There is a reason why Arizona ranks last in the country in per capita charitable donation giving, and Phoenix will never be anything special so long as a majority of voters can't see past their own pocketbooks to contribute to a greater good.

To be clear, I think there is a happy medium here. I'm not suggesting we need to go to the other extreme of city governance like New York and California often exhibits. Denver and Seattle probably has it about right...spend enough money to make a world class city, but don't tax your citizens to death in the process.

--don

Vicelord John Jan 26, 2011 3:47 PM

Why does it mattEr about the city's budget? They don't own or run the museum.

plinko Jan 26, 2011 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 5140008)
Monroe School is a symptom of much that is wrong with Arizona - we are too cheap for our own good. Penny-wise but pound-foolish.

An elegant fence (wrought iron or something) and a proper ramp would fix the problems, but all of that costs money.

Phoenix doesn't have much money, especially compared to older cities. Take a look at annual city budgets (source -- http://www.census.gov/statab/ccdb/cc07_tabC6.pdf):

Phoenix, 1.4 million: $2.2 billion
Boston, 600,000: $2.5 billion
San Francisco, 800,000: $4.8 billion
Denver, 600,000: $1.9 billion
Baltimore, 600,000: $2.4 billion
Dallas, 1.1 million: $2 billion
Seattle, 600,000: $1.2 billion

Per capita city government expenditures:

San Francisco: $6,000
Boston: $4,166
Baltimore: $4,000
Denver: $3,166
Seattle: $2,000
Dallas: $1,818
Phoenix: $1,571

Put another way, Phoenix is four times the size of Buffalo, NY, in terms of population, but has about the same number of municipal employees.

People in Arizona like their governments and their buildings small. And many people here like things that way. If you dare to criticize things, then you are told to "move if you don't like it." A very greedy bunch of people if you ask me...by and large. There is a reason why Arizona ranks last in the country in per capita charitable donation giving, and Phoenix will never be anything special so long as a majority of voters can't see past their own pocketbooks to contribute to a greater good.

To be clear, I think there is a happy medium here. I'm not suggesting we need to go to the other extreme of city governance like New York and California often exhibits. Denver and Seattle probably has it about right...spend enough money to make a world class city, but don't tax your citizens to death in the process.

--don

One could take a totally different tact here and say that because of the small number of government employees in Arizona, the state in the long term will be better off given that they won't be saddled with so many pension obligations for such a huge number of employees. Just a thought...

The government (state or local) has very little to do with the lack of tall buildings in Phoenix. There simply isn't a huge market for them.

combusean Jan 26, 2011 8:50 PM

For what it's worth, Denver and San Francisco are consolidated city-counties. You can't compare Phoenix on the same level.

bwonger06 Jan 27, 2011 4:51 AM

Stopped by Breadfruit/Rum bar tonight. Jerk chicken was very good but the chicken dumpling was ok.

Rum/Bar looks like it has real potential. A lot of people filled in there from about 7-9 and looks like a great spot to hang out after work. Probably go back next time to order a jerk chicken. Prices not too bad, a cocktail and chicken will run you about $20. Only horrible thing is they cannot split the check. Seriously people?

Vicelord John Jan 27, 2011 4:55 AM

What do you mean cannot split the check? You mean like between multiple people? They have done that for us many times.

bwonger06 Jan 27, 2011 5:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5141216)
What do you mean cannot split the check? You mean like between multiple people? They have done that for us many times.

They wouldn't do it for us and it was a pain when we had 8 people. I think they have a policy of not splitting checks for groups of 6 or more.

Vicelord John Jan 27, 2011 5:07 AM

Makes sense. Its kind of rude to ask a server to split up that many checks anyway. Its a total pain in the ass. If you go out with a big group, you should be cool and take cash.

bwonger06 Jan 27, 2011 5:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5141234)
Makes sense. Its kind of rude to ask a server to split up that many checks anyway. Its a total pain in the ass. If you go out with a big group, you should be cool and take cash.

Yea we went prepared but still a pain nevertheless.

Leo the Dog Jan 27, 2011 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plinko (Post 5140262)
One could take a totally different tact here and say that because of the small number of government employees in Arizona, the state in the long term will be better off given that they won't be saddled with so many pension obligations for such a huge number of employees. Just a thought...

The government (state or local) has very little to do with the lack of tall buildings in Phoenix. There simply isn't a huge market for them.

Correct. Since when does government create world class cities with phenomenal architectural gems of buildings? Every city I've lived in, the government area is the worst area in many ways, socially, architecturally. ie: Gov't Center in Boston, DT Phoenix-courts area-Wash/Jeff corridor, San Diego city government buildings...

The cities and states with big government payrolls and pensions are suffering the worst right now (CA, NY, IL).

exit2lef Jan 28, 2011 1:16 AM

I reached out to the Children's Museum via Twitter and gave them a link to this thread. This time, I received a response. My previous mentions of this issue via several media had gone unanswered. Keep in mind this is Twitter, so everything is succinct:

My initial message:

exit2lef: Candid feedback for @childmuse from a member & supporter (my reply to a post on SkyscraperPage Forum). http://t.co/CgcLsZb

Their response:

ChildMuse: @exit2lef You're right, the chain link fence isn't appealing. We're working to install a more attractive fence. The entrance can't change

My response:

exit2lef: @ChildMuse Thanks. I'd be happy to donate to any fund for a better fence, as long as it includes a clear path for pedestrians from 7th St.

HX_Guy Jan 28, 2011 1:43 AM

Nice, I'm glad they are working on it, it's good to hear.

I'd love something like this...minus the graffiti.

http://www.what-we-have-wrought.com/images/fence.jpg

Vicelord John Jan 28, 2011 2:10 AM

I would also donate with said requirement. Its asinine to not have an entrance or path from 7, especially given the orientation wiTh the science center.

nickw252 Jan 28, 2011 3:13 AM

Good work on the fence :cheers:

Phxguy Jan 28, 2011 4:10 AM

Maybe we should all go on twitter to ask about or for improvements for certain buildings downtown.

gymratmanaz Jan 28, 2011 5:35 AM

I'll donate gladly too!!!

HooverDam Jan 28, 2011 6:00 AM

Nice work on garnering the attention about the fence. What really needs to be done next is to get a HAWK signal installed at 7th Street and Monroe so people can safely cross from the Heritage Square and core of downtown to the East.


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