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biggus diggus Nov 16, 2017 5:30 PM

Upgraded arenas provide more options for increased revenue and owners put the "attendance is down" spin on it to make it an easier sell. If sarver told anyone it will give him the ability to put in more expensive seats, clubs, and food and beverage outlets they'd tell him to pound sand.

Luckily it seems our city council is smart enough to see the bigger scope.

TJPHXskyscraperfan Nov 16, 2017 5:53 PM

Yep, very true, I really don't know what they could do besides new seats and a new scoreboard. I think the screen is actually smaller that it used to be with the VERIZON phone looking screen they've had for a couple years. I sat in a suite last week, idk what u can do to make it better. I guess it will be more around the arena, wider hallways, they already have all kinds of new food. Had Pork on a Fork when I was there at the other game I went to. What can you really do, they are giving tickets away for 5 bucks. They need to start winning and that will put people in the seats agreed. But bottom line, they need to stay downtown, idk if other places are going through this but us being the soon to be second oldest arena, that's not by much. Chicago's United Center, The TD Boston Garden, Portland arena, Phillys arena, Quicken Loans arena all opened within a few years after ours. Idk why they are saying second oldest, The T'Wolves Target Center opened in 1990 but looks like they are doing renovations and theirs is only costing 140 Mil, hmmmmm. Of Course Madison Square Garden is the oldest.

biggus diggus Nov 16, 2017 6:08 PM

decrease capacity for one, this enables you to offer larger seats which can carry an even larger premium. You also have limited the number of people who can get a ticket which further raises ticket prices.

Don't forget there are a lot of moving parts in that arena's lower bowl, a reconfiguration would be probably top of their list.

ASU Diablo Nov 16, 2017 9:19 PM

It's been cited numerous times that "supposedly" the arena is having a tough time pulling in top concerts/music acts due to the increasing complexity of stages/shows put on by artists. Not sure if a valid reason but if there are indeed limits to the type of shows TSRA can pull in because of this, then a reconfig makes sense. I disagree that a reduction in capacity is needed...just look back at the mid-2000s when Steve Nash was here. The Suns consistently sold out the arena and at some point, there was a wait list for new season tickets. Put a winning product on the floor and the fans will flock back.

I also remember reading a while back the "claustrophobic" nature of the concourse with narrow hallways and low ceilings. This is true. Just look at what SDS did with their renovation and how it's night/day difference. Of course, the changes at SDS were needed to improve airflow due to it not being climate controlled. Anyways, Suns are not going anywhere and how many others have said already, politics are playing into this and they will change their tune once candidate is elected. However, I do agree that Sarver needs to pony up more cash.

biggus diggus Nov 16, 2017 9:41 PM

I didn't say it's needed, I said that's one of the things they could do in response to the poster above me saying "I really don't know what else they could do". Team owners have long loved to decrease capacity when remodeling arenas and stadiums as a way to jack up ticket prices and increase revenue. The diamondbacks did it recently and many teams in the past have done it.

TJPHXskyscraperfan Nov 17, 2017 6:38 AM

Idk if a lower seat count would be a good idea. They already reduced it from 19,023 down to 18,422 I think with the last renovation. I think ideally the arena should be 20,000 plus. I guess you could charge more if seats are larger but will people really pay? People aren't gonna pay when they are giving tickets away and we are losing unfortunately. Now I sound like I'm against the renovations,lol. We have all kinds of good food options now, I guess just wider hallways, if this renovation is really over 400 million I assume there is gonna be a lot of reconfiguring to the lower bowl. The question is, will they have to play at Gila River for a year possibly? As far as concerts? It seems there's been more than ever to me anyway, I just went to Jay Z a couple weeks back, Bruno Mars was here after that, Fall Out Boy in a couple days. Gila River gets a few every year but I think Talking Stick still pretty much owns getting most of the concerts even if they think it's not going to sell out, they see even a half filled arena is better than the arena sitting empty for a night.

Buckeye Native 001 Nov 17, 2017 4:07 PM

Am I the only one who thinks the acoustics in America West Arena sucks? I've seen Rush there two or three times (I know, shut up...) and it always sounds like garbage compared to when I've seen them at Desert Sky.

Ditto Springsteen and Stevie Wonder at Glendale Arena. The only arena show with halfway decent acoustics I've seen was Metallica at University of Phoenix Stadium back in August.

fawd Nov 17, 2017 9:26 PM

Suns aren't going to make any drastic changes to the total capacity. Might reduce by a few hundred, nothing beyond that...

If memory serves correctly, Talking Stick is already the 6th smallest venue in the NBA by total capacity.

And if they go any lower, that puts the Suns in 'NCAA' sized territory.
Believe McKale Center holds 15,000 (granted, UA stuffs their fans in there).

fawd Nov 17, 2017 9:40 PM


Originally Posted by biggus diggus (Post 7988175)
Don't forget there are a lot of moving parts in that arena's lower bowl, a reconfiguration would be probably top of their list.

Correct! I have been involved in stadium facility upgrades in the past - ranging from 30MM to 300MM. I anticipate seeing the Suns renovations narrowed down to five focuses. In no particular order:

1) Transition the LOWER BOWL from temporary seating to permanent
2) Completely overhaul all FAN AMENITIES within the facility. Bathrooms, Food, person flow (big one), presentation within the concourse, stairs, elevators, suites, ticket office, etc.
3) TEAM FACILITIES. The top-25 NCAA basketball programs have better locker rooms, training facilities, sports medicine facilities than the Suns.
4) GAME EXPERIENCE & TECHNOLOGY. Expect a complete refresh of the centerhung videoboard & halos, ring LEDs, secondary displays, sound system, enhanced wi-fi, fan interaction, stat information, social media integration, etc. You could see the TV Broadcast infrastructure get an upgrade as part of this.
5) Improve ARENA INFRASTRUCTURE for concert and secondary event purposes. Suns need to keep that flow of income going well into the future!

biggus diggus Nov 17, 2017 11:05 PM

All things that would be on the list for most owners. Almost every one of those things helps toward increasing revenue especially if your investment is only a minimal amount.

fawd Nov 18, 2017 3:34 PM

Just walked by Adams and Central. They are installing trees, not palm trees.

ASU Diablo Nov 19, 2017 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by fawd (Post 7990203)
Just walked by Adams and Central. They are installing trees, not palm trees.

Ash trees to be exact. Great news!

exit2lef Nov 19, 2017 1:41 AM


Originally Posted by airomero83 (Post 7990541)
Ash trees to be exact. Great news!

Interesting. I wonder if that was the plan all along, or if the negative reaction to the removal of the ficus trees brought about a change in plans.

biggus diggus Nov 19, 2017 2:02 AM

Nothing better than ash trees. Planted a fan Tex in my yard last month.

gymratmanaz Nov 19, 2017 2:18 PM

Ashes rock. I have 3 at my house. Beautiful in summer, fall colors, awesome canopies!!!

biggus diggus Nov 20, 2017 12:32 AM

Are yours turning yet? I live on Central and am surprised neither mine or the ones on the street (bridal path) are turning.

gymratmanaz Nov 20, 2017 12:42 PM

Mine always turn later November beginning of December. Beautiful yellows and oranges.

Sun Belt Nov 20, 2017 2:02 PM

Keep an eye out for emerald ash borer first detected in North America in 2002, it has killed millions of Ash trees already and is expected to cause $10-20 billion in losses around the country. I don't think it's been detected in Arizona yet, but it's all over the midwest.


Every North American ash species has susceptibility to emerald ash borer, as North American species planted in China also have high mortality due to infestations, but some Chinese ash species are resistant.[19][20]

Green ash and black ash trees are preferred by emerald ash borer. White ash is also killed rapidly, but usually only after all green and black ash trees are eliminated. Blue ash displays some resistance to the emerald ash borer by forming callus tissue around emerald ash borer galleries, but is eventually killed.

Emerald ash borer threatens the entire North American Fraxinus genus. It has killed at least tens of millions of ash trees so far and threatens to kill most of the 8.7 billion ash trees throughout North America.

CrestedSaguaro Nov 20, 2017 4:07 PM

Slow news day when we are talking about fall colors and bugs :haha:

Obadno Nov 20, 2017 5:07 PM


Originally Posted by RonnieFoos (Post 7991847)
Slow news day when we are talking about fall colors and bugs :haha:

We need someone with a nice camera to go get us some photo updates, Link has Dirt Moving, Block 23 is a giant hole in the ground, Circles is up to three stories, the projects north of Hance Park are coming along quickly, State 48 is almost open, The new trees at Rennsiance etc.

If only someone here lived downtown with a half decent camera... ahem,,, fawd. ahem.

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