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Vicelord John Jun 23, 2012 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickw252 (Post 5744089)
I'm strongly in favor of improving Hance Park, it's long overdue. But isn't Encamto Park Phoenix's signature park? I'd love a dog park at Encanto Park.

Encanto, Papago, South Mountain, hell lots could be considered "signature" parks. Phoenix will probably never have a destination type Central Park kinda place, just because of how much parkland there is to manage, and most of the funds are allocated to huge spaces of mostly nothing.

nickw252 Jun 23, 2012 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 5744109)
Dog parks are ugly due to their typical chain-link fenced-in nature. I think Hance should be completely fence-less.

A dog park wouldn't encompass the entire Hance Park. That would be enormous, you'd never find your dog. It would just be a small area like 200' x 200'. Also, dog parks don't have to be ugly and have chain link fence like at Steele Indian School. That dog park is terrible. It has chain link fence, no grass, no shade, and is too big. C'mon Phoenix, we can do better.

Balboa Park in downtown San Diego has an incredible dog park with a fenced off area (not chain link) that is very attractive. When I went there last winter the whole area was grassy and the park was packed. Here's a picture.

http://i48.tinypic.com/34qo7xf.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2q0rckx.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/34xrul0.png

PHX31 Jun 23, 2012 5:14 PM

/\ I wasn't implying that the whole park would be a dog park. I wouldn't want even a tiny section being fenced off, not this park. Other parks, sure, but not this one.

Vicelord John Jun 23, 2012 5:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 5744173)
/\ I wasn't implying that the whole park would be a dog park. I wouldn't want even a tiny section being fenced off, not this park. Other parks, sure, but not this one.

why?

I'd argue that if done right, it could be very attractive.

PHX31 Jun 23, 2012 5:32 PM

I just don't like dog parks. This should be a very open park with various uses and spaces, but a fenced in dog park isn't one use that I think would work. I imagine people hanging out and lounging, some with their dogs on a leash, but a dedicated dog area is just unattractive to me.

Vicelord John Jun 23, 2012 6:02 PM

A very irreverent point of view...

HooverDam Jun 24, 2012 4:36 AM

The real problem with this dog park idea is the location. On those berms between 3rd and 5th Ave makes ZERO SENSE. Its such lazy, typical Phoenix planning bullshit, it makes me want to puke. They only reason they want to do it there is because there's a surface parking lot between the two berms, the City realizes they can be lazy and cheap and just toss fences around each berm, and signs that say "Large Dogs" "Small Dogs" and whamo- dog park.

The problem of course is there's not much of a demand for a dog park in that area. As someone who lives in Willo, walking distance to Hance Park, and owns a dog, I can tell you I'll never use that dog park. And why would anyone who lives in Willo, Roosevelt, FQ Story or Encanto Palmcroft use it? We all have large grassy yards in front and back of our homes. People in single family homes, or duplex's really don't need a dog park, unless you're using it for strictly social purposes.

It should be on the Eastern half of the park, South side, making it easy for Downtown residents in Roosevelt Square, Alta Phx, St Croix Villas, 44 Monroe, the Concord Eastridge Project, Artisan Lofts, to get to it.

If you look just North of Moreland where 2nd Street dead ends, there's perfect spots for dog runs there. Just to the East of one of the decorative I-10 tunnel vents there's a medium sized grassy area (between 2 east-west sidewalks) perfect for small dogs. To the West of the other vent thingy there's longer patch of grass perfect for a large dog run.

dtnphx Jun 25, 2012 9:56 PM

The minutiae of this discussion is insane. Not "liking" dog parks is not a reason to not have one and people will use it they place it north of Hance or south of Hance. Most people drive their dogs to the parks. Next, someone will complain that the barking ruined by once a year visit!

HooverDam Jun 25, 2012 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtnphx (Post 5746264)
Most people drive their dogs to the parks.

And thus you've shown you don't understand the park at a core level. Hance is supposed to be an URBAN park. Not a suburban park that people drive to. For the most part Hance needs to be reached by foot, transit, bike, etc. Thats how most great urban parks in the world work. By increasing density all around Hance, but particularly on the Southwest, Southwest and Northeast sides this is achievable.

Vicelord John Jun 25, 2012 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5746280)
And thus you've shown you don't understand the park at a core level. Hance is supposed to be an URBAN park.

That is one of the most asinine and elitist things I've ever read.

Just to clarify, are you saying that people who don't want to walk a mile or two in order to take their pooch to the nearest dog park, should not be allowed to go because they arrive by means of automobile transportation? You want to dictate who is allowed to use the park by how they plan to get there?

There aren't enough facepalms in the world to post in response to that.

HooverDam Jun 25, 2012 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5746285)
That is one of the most asinine and elitist things I've ever read.

Just to clarify, are you saying that people who don't want to walk a mile or two in order to take their pooch to the nearest dog park, should not be allowed to go because they arrive by means of automobile transportation? You want to dictate who is allowed to use the park by how they plan to get there?

There aren't enough facepalms in the world to post in response to that.

I never said anything like that, calm down.

1. There should be enough parks and open spaces in our City for everyone to have a 5 minute walk to a park. Thats called good planning. Hance, or any one park, can't solve all the worlds problems.

2. I didn't say people shouldn't be "allowed" to drive there. It just shouldn't be the way we develop every park in the City, hidden by a huge moat of surface parking. People will always be able to drive to Hance, but they should parallel park along streets or in nicely hidden garages. The park and Central City, should be designed in such a way to encourage alternate means of transportation.

According to Google Maps my walk to the two berms along Culver St that may become the dog park is a 7 minute walk for me. I'm a dog owner and I don't plan on likely ever taking my dog there. Why? Because I, and everyone around me for miles, has big front and back yards for my dogs. Why cross a busy street like McDowell when its nicer just to walk the pooch here in Willo?

Its just a matter of sound design vs cruddy design. The people with no/small yards live to the Southeast of Hance Park. So put the dog park where its easiest for them to get to it. That way the maximum number of people use it, and you get a return on your investment. Use people at Alta Phoenix as an example. If you put the dog amenities on the Southeast side of the park, its a 1/2 mile, 5 minute walk. If you put it along Culver, you've doubled those people's walks to about a mile, something most people aren't going to do and very very few people will do when its 100+ outside. Having to get in your car and drive a mile to the park from Alta is a pain and counter to the reason you likely moved into the city core anyway.

Vicelord John Jun 25, 2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5746342)
1. There should be enough parks and open spaces in our City for everyone to have a 5 minute walk to a park. Thats called good planning. Hance, or any one park, can't solve all the worlds problems.

The denser the city, the more possible this may be, but in a city like Phoenix, the cost to do this would be so astronomical that it simply isn't feasable. :tup:

HooverDam Jun 25, 2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5746355)
The denser the city, the more possible this may be, but in a city like Phoenix, the cost to do this would be so astronomical that it simply isn't feasable. :tup:

I agree, kinda of. I think that should be the goal though for Central PHX at least, even if its not achievable right at the moment. We do need lots more little pocket parks, which should be relatively cheap to do. For instance right near me, on 3rd Ave where Holly and Monte Vista meet there's a super cool pocket park. Its got great shade, beautiful flowers and cool public art bench thingies. Im pretty sure it even has the little doggie pooper scooper bags on a stand, which is great.

So while its not a park I can let a dog run in, its nice to have the pooper bags and such, and it makes for a good destination on our walks. I also really like that small park just South of Roosevelt, near the Goldspot, more like that would be nice.

reguru Jun 25, 2012 11:46 PM

It would be great to see a city park with the likes of Grant Park in Chicago. We have Encanto Park a mile away, but this park would be along the light rail. I'm thinking of a band shell/shaded concert stage, nice trees and plently of open grassy areas of sitting or laying on a blanket. I know it's hot in the summer, but otherwise it would be great to see open air movies played on a big screen and outdoor activities like concerts for all types. I wonder with the underlying deck for the tunnel, if you could plant trees with the root systems and all?

Anyway, I think we would see folks parking in the light rail lots and hopping on the train or walking over to enjoy a concert or outdoor movie at night. We need to build more of a sense of community in our neighborhoods with various venues and citizen participation. This is something I hope to work on over the coming years all around the valley.

reguru Jun 25, 2012 11:57 PM

New MCSO Headquarters- Downtown Phoenix
 
Not sure if we have pics of this already, but thought I would share this article on Biz Journal with the rendering.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...=image_gallery

HX_Guy Jun 26, 2012 12:21 AM

Whoa, that's...different.

http://assets.bizjournals.com/phoeni...0rendering.jpg

Vicelord John Jun 26, 2012 12:29 AM

If they build that I'm taking a picture of me riding the white horse.

reguru Jun 26, 2012 2:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 5746461)
If they build that I'm taking a picture of me riding the white horse.

Good news, looks like you may get your wish. It's already under construction.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/18...-found-at-mcso

dtnphx Jun 26, 2012 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 5746280)
And thus you've shown you don't understand the park at a core level. Hance is supposed to be an URBAN park. Not a suburban park that people drive to. For the most part Hance needs to be reached by foot, transit, bike, etc. Thats how most great urban parks in the world work. By increasing density all around Hance, but particularly on the Southwest, Southwest and Northeast sides this is achievable.

I agree, Hance is supposed to be an urban park but does not integrate into the surrounding community because it has horrible access. It's subterranean and is not like other urban parks. A Japanese Garden and Irish Cultural Center do not a park make. So let's not call it what it isn't.

Vicelord John Jun 26, 2012 9:14 PM

If we can stop beating this horse for a moment....

New Restaurant Alert
Squash Blossom Breakfast and Lunch Cafe Coming in July; Overflow From Matt's Big Breakfast Welcome, Says OwnerBy Laura Hahnefeld Tue., Jun. 26 2012 at 10:00 AM Comments (5) Categories: New Restaurant Alert



Brian Lester, who co-owns the coming-soon breakfast and lunch eatery Squash Blossom with wife Carrie, tells me he isn't concerned about his restaurant being located across the street from the popular Matt's Big Breakfast in Central Phoenix.



"I always see a line out the door," he tells me. "Maybe some of those people will come over and see what we're all about. And then, hopefully, they'll come back."

The couple, who have spent years in the catering business, are hoping to open Squash Blossom in the former Pasta Bar space by mid-July. And Lester says his "local urban grill" will focus on breakfast and lunch dishes featuring many locally sourced products -- including the ones being grown on he restaurant's patio.

Lester, who manages the business while wife Carrie does the cooking, says Squash Blossom's dishes will include zucchini soup, pumpkin pancakes, specialty burgers, sandwiches, and salads.

"We're close to the farmers market, so it's perfect," he adds.

In addition to a coffee bar and patio, the restaurant will also sport local artwork, be dog-friendly, and in the future, turn into a wine bar at night.

Squash Blossom
705 North First Street, Phoenix

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