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-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

Mr Downtown May 19, 2014 1:36 PM

The new shelters will be floor-height, so turnstiles at the entries (plus a CTA ordinance making them fare-paid areas) would probably be sufficient. In public perception, that's a significant step beyond just saying roving fare inspectors may check your bus every month or so.

I think what's tricky about self-service fare collection on buses downtown is the close spacing of the stops. As soon as the inspectors get on at Wells, everyone suddenly decides they meant to alight at Clark. On LRT or BRT, you can audit most of a car between stations.

wierdaaron May 19, 2014 1:41 PM

Fully enclosed platforms with sliding doors that only open when a bus is loading seems like the only sane way to do prepayment. Drivers/staff will know that anybody coming through the doors onto the bus has paid, and if someone tries to creep in from the side they didn't pay. That's what I expected to see when I heard we were close to BRT.

Without that, it just seems like "Bus Fewer Stops".

I talked to someone in Cleveland once about their BRT system and it sounded like it was basically honor system, but it wasn't an expert. And also, Cleveland.

It must have been during the honor system experiment in LA that I was there and tried the subway. I was kinda confused. "Okay, I just paid for a ticket from this machine... now what? Trains are down here... Where do I... Don't I have to.... Wait do I just get on the train now? How do they know that I... I must have missed something. Hope I don't get arrested."

LouisVanDerWright May 19, 2014 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6583441)
The new shelters will be floor-height, so turnstiles at the entries (plus a CTA ordinance making them fare-paid areas) would probably be sufficient. In public perception, that's a significant step beyond just saying roving fare inspectors may check your bus every month or so.

I think what's tricky about self-service fare collection on buses downtown is the close spacing of the stops. As soon as the inspectors get on at Wells, everyone suddenly decides they meant to alight at Clark. On LRT or BRT, you can audit most of a car between stations.

I never thought about the audit thing, but that's an easy way to enforce it. It's just like parking meters, no one is there strictly policing it and, sure, you might be able to get away scotch free 75% of the time, but the consequences of the 25% of the time a meter maid comes by are not worth the free meal. However, the problem would be that it is VERY easy to come after someone for a parking ticket because the city can just boot their car, very strong incentive to pay. It's much harder to collect against individuals and this could lead to hangers on, particularly those who don't give a rats ass about their credit, abusing the system and just racking up tickets and not paying.

emathias May 19, 2014 7:59 PM

Since it is BRT, supposedly, and there will be high ridership, you could put an additional fare collector on the bus so that people can board at the rear, too. It's not pre-payment, but it does speed boarding. China does it.

untitledreality May 20, 2014 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown (Post 6583227)
I seriously doubt that anyplace in North America will try again soon.

The MTA uses self service fare collection on its SBS routes.

Mr Downtown May 20, 2014 1:34 PM

^I hadn't heard about that; thanks. That's very relevant to what Chicago is planning downtown. I wonder what New York's experience with evasion has been.

Mr Downtown May 20, 2014 7:29 PM

Apparently the current thinking is to open with only one of the boarding platforms being prepaid, and see how that works in a Chicago winter before making a decision about the others. There will be queue-jumping signals at some intersections, but no signal priority otherwise.

The project's own calculations indicate that the Central Loop BRT speed improvements will be quite modest. A trip from Wacker to Michigan that now takes 13.6 minutes could improve to as little as—wait for it—12.3 minutes on average.

One new concern I have is about the raised platforms, which look like they can only berth one bus at a time. So during the morning rush, folks on the third bus back will be popping the cherry to get out and get to work on time, rather than waiting until the first two buses at the intersection move along.

wierdaaron May 22, 2014 11:48 PM

Streetsblog Chicago has an interview with CDOT Commissioner about the central loop BRT.

CDOT Commissioner Rebekah Scheinfeld Discusses the Loop BRT Project

They expect fully operational by the end of 2015. Nothing about rider payment flow.

Mr Downtown May 24, 2014 3:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 6589811)
Wasn't the ridership much higher back in the 40's and 50's than today? What did they do then without the flyover?

There was much less margin for safety. No cab signals, trains operated "on sight"—and rear-end collisions in low-visibility or blizzard conditions were not rare.

Baronvonellis May 24, 2014 3:14 AM

OK,hire a manual operator to work the junction like back then, and use the money to expand the brown to Jeff Park.

emathias May 24, 2014 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 6589811)
Wasn't the ridership much higher back in the 40's and 50's than today? What did they do then without the flyover?

Ridership on the Howard branch is as high or higher than its ever been. I believe thesame is true on the Brown Line. System numbers were higher in WWII but thats because of the other branches actually having high ridership.

chicagopcclcar1 May 24, 2014 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baronvonellis (Post 6590302)
OK,hire a manual operator to work the junction like back then, and use the money to expand the brown to Jeff Park.

Clark Junction is MANUALLY OPERATED at all times. The interlocking machine was the latest technologly when installed. The is a video on the CTA website.

CTA Gray Line May 24, 2014 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emathias (Post 6590556)
Ridership on the Howard branch is as high or higher than its ever been. I believe thesame is true on the Brown Line. System numbers were higher in WWII but thats because of the other branches actually having high ridership.

Also until 1963 North Shore Line trains were included on the Howard branch.....

BVictor1 Jun 3, 2014 5:10 AM

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2...l#.U41YMigvk10

Lake Shore Drive plans aim for big-picture, not patchwork approach

BY TINA SFONDELES Staff Reporter May 30, 2014 7:10PM

Quote:

Daniel Burnham envisioned a “quiet” Lake Shore Drive.

But the 15-mile plus stretch of road, bike and pedestrian paths is far from hushed some 100 years later.

North Lake Shore Drive carries as many as 970 CTA buses with 69,000 passengers a day, in addition to the 160,000 cars that pass through daily. And the Lakefront Trail, an often dangerous place during rush hour and weekends, is used by as many as 31,000 people daily on peak summer days.

Many of Lake Shore Drive’s pedestrian tunnels and bridges, used to get walkers and cyclists to the lakefront path, were built in 1930 and meant to last just 30 years. Nine of them, including the Oak Street and North Avenue overpasses, are considered “functionally obsolete.” The crumbling infrastructure is 54 years past its expiration date.

LouisVanDerWright Jun 4, 2014 2:26 PM

Saw these Wilson Station renderings on DNAinfo:

http://assets.dnainfo.com/generated/...extralarge.jpg

http://assets.dnainfo.com/generated/...extralarge.jpg

http://assets.dnainfo.com/generated/...extralarge.jpg

http://assets.dnainfo.com/generated/...extralarge.jpg

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140...homes-offices#

I hope they actually end up going with the more sculptural structural supports shown here instead of big fat cylinders like the ones at Belmont and Fullerton.

ardecila Jun 4, 2014 5:55 PM

I'm fine with either, but I think the CTA will actually use these ugly wide-flange columns with a tacky decorative footing.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TrFbSqYW5h...hboundView.jpg

joeg1985 Jun 4, 2014 6:00 PM

^ I bet they use both columns. As you guys are talking about two different kinds of support at two different sections of the same project.

chicagopcclcar1 Jun 4, 2014 10:57 PM

Whichever columns and beams they design and use, the City and the CTA should use the piles and piles of steel salvaged and saved from the never-used 63rd St. Dorchester terminal. The inventory was the result of an agreement where the City and the CTA would not have to repay the Federal monies for the never-used Dorchester terminal if the City and the CTA would use the steel in other projects. How big are the piles of steel....almost two blocks long!!

BVictor1 Jun 5, 2014 3:23 AM

I went to a neighborhood meeting tonight and got a chance to talk with someone from CDOT.

He told me there's a pretty good chance that the pedestrian bridge over LSD at 35th Street could happen beginning later on this year.

I was also told that a Tiger Grant has been submitted for the crossings at 41st & 43rd over LSD. IDOT will know within the next several months wether the grants were accepted with would mean that construction on one or the other of 2 would begin within the next 18 to 24 months, or so I was told.

ardecila Jun 5, 2014 3:43 AM

Yeah, I mentioned something about 35th St a few weeks ago. At this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

It did go out for bid, but it's obvious that this is not a priority for CDOT.

41st/43rd would be cool.

http://www.cordoganclark.com/portfol...0Bridges/7.jpg
src


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