SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Transportation (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   CHICAGO: Transit Developments (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101657)

ardecila Jul 13, 2012 8:47 AM

Thanks, I only have the businessman's overview of the law (one semester in B-school).

Is there any way the Village of Glenview could recover against UP?

emathias Jul 13, 2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5764149)
Thanks, I only have the businessman's overview of the law (one semester in B-school).

Is there any way the Village of Glenview could recover against UP?

There are always political solutions, such as blocking anything else they need government approval to do until they take steps to address things. In the long run, that could cost them far, far more than even a punitive settlement would.

montasauraus Jul 19, 2012 1:16 AM

The Pink line train I rode this morning had the color LED destination signs. It was a nice to see over the bland amber ones, and it will be a lot less confusing now that Green lines trains have the new cars too.

MostlyHarmless Jul 19, 2012 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montasauraus (Post 5769910)
The Pink line train I rode this morning had the color LED destination signs. It was a nice to see over the bland amber ones, and it will be a lot less confusing now that Green lines trains have the new cars too.

This is a no-brainer and I'm surprised they didn't roll them out with this feature already. Glad to see someone with common sense over at CTA.

the pope Jul 19, 2012 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montasauraus (Post 5769910)
The Pink line train I rode this morning had the color LED destination signs. It was a nice to see over the bland amber ones, and it will be a lot less confusing now that Green lines trains have the new cars too.

Guess i missed the news they were doing that, but thank goodness. Two weeks ago, almost got on a pink line train (was trying to go Midway), my mind just assumed orange LED sign = Orange Line CTA.

ardecila Jul 23, 2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montasauraus (Post 5769910)
The Pink line train I rode this morning had the color LED destination signs. It was a nice to see over the bland amber ones, and it will be a lot less confusing now that Green lines trains have the new cars too.

All new 5000s will be delivered with color LED and all currently-operating 5000s will be retrofitted.

I'm curious about the technology for the LED signage. Does this restrict the color of any future CTA lines? AFAIK the choice of color is determined by legibility to customers, so the capabilities of the sign are important as is legibility on a map. (Not that we're actually considering any new lines...)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6374/ctaled.jpg

Mr Downtown Jul 23, 2012 1:50 AM

I think they probably work like little TVs or Jumbotrons. So we could have the Iridescent Leopardspot Dropshadow Line if we wanted.

Things are a little better now, but back when I was designing the CTA map there was a surprising lack of consistency about color formulas from publication to publication. I have my doubts about how rigorously they're testing the RGB equivalents.

ardecila Jul 23, 2012 2:36 AM

That sounds frustrating. Fortunately, additional colors are a problem we won't encounter for quite some time, unless the Grey Line goes forward (I nominate Aqua as the color).

Rizzo Jul 23, 2012 3:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5773947)
That sounds frustrating. Fortunately, additional colors are a problem we won't encounter for quite some time, unless the Grey Line goes forward (I nominate Aqua as the color).

I'm not all that bright (no pun intended) when it comes to light theory, but wouldn't a change in RGB intensity produce a simulated shade of gray?

Busy Bee Jul 23, 2012 3:28 AM

Not to stray too far away from the topic at hand, but I have never been a fan of the color denotation system anyway. After the Cta moved away from destination based line names (Englewood-JP, Ravenswood, Howard, etc.) they should have gone all the way and dropped the various applied colors and developed a totally new, simplified naming system with no ties to previous historic usages.

An example I've thought would have been more successful would have been a play on the system's general reference as the 'L' and listed the lines as simple L# assignments. Red Line becomes L1, Purple L2, Blue L3, Pink L4, Brown L5 and so forth. While this methodical treatment may sound soulless and cold to some, mostly IMO because the colors use nostalgia by referencing the old line naming system, there is plenty of international precedent (Paris, most German systems, most Euro and Asian systems) not to mention NY and streamlines information design applications like maps, wayfinding, service alerts, etc., etc.

Colors could still be used, and lines would always keep their assigned colors, but the reference name would be IMO easier to communicate.

OK, now let me have it!

ardecila Jul 23, 2012 3:38 AM

Meh... Metra's naming system is literally out of the Stone Age. Does anybody actually remember what the Rock Island Railroad was? In comparison, it's hard to get upset about CTA's relatively elegant color system, although if I implemented your proposal, I'd reassign numbers to bus routes 1-10 to avoid confusion.

Pace's naming system is too cold and efficient, though. A three-digit system allows for 1000 routes, which is too mind-boggling to comprehend and forces a reliance on trip planners and computer technology. It seems a lot more legible to name bus routes by a prefix that corresponds to a given suburban region, like NY's MTA uses prefixes for boroughs. N for North Shore, NW for Northwest, F for Fox Valley, W for West, SW for Southwest, S for South, X for regional express routes. Numbers from 1-99. Careful planning would assign one or more bus garages to each region and use the livery of the bus to reinforce regional boundaries.

Standpoor Jul 23, 2012 5:23 AM

I think colors work best from a visitors point of view. Visitors seem to think our system is pretty easy to use, made all the easier by not having expresses and such. It is clear from quickly looking on a map where the red line goes or the blue line without having to follow the path in the visitor's mind or convert L1 to a color on a map. But it would be kind of cool to see giant pink L4s around the city pointing the way to the pink line.

One time I was waiting on the platform and a very well dressed man came up and with an accent but very eloquently asked me for directions to Fullerton from Randolph. I told him brown line and he stared blankly at me. After trying a couple of times I pointed at the sign and said this color. He thanked me, sat down and pulled out a book. It was titled American Law for Business Graduates, or something like that, with Arabic underneath and nothing but Arabic inside. That is why he did not understand Kimball but I could not get how someone who spoke English so well did not know what color Brown was. And it is always bizarre when an out-of-towner calls a metra line by its schedule color. "I need to take the green line to Ravania."

I was also standing on the platform this past week to go out to Rush and wanted to make sure that I got on the right train since both the green line and pink have amber lights now. It was truly surprising how long it took my brain to confirm that amber 54th was where I wanted to go. I read 54th, thought to myself do I want 54th or 63rd. Then thought I want Cermak which is 54th/Cermak not Ashland/63rd. Then made sure by reading it again, then got on. This only took maybe a second but it seemed to take much longer then it should and certainly much longer then looking at the color long before the sign becomes readable. I guess I am just getting old.

ardecila Jul 23, 2012 6:44 AM

While we're on the subject, does anyone know why CTA names some suburban stations after streets and others after cities? Rosemont and Forest Park would appear to be the major exceptions, but now both Skokie stations have "Skokie" in the name.

orulz Jul 23, 2012 2:01 PM

I for one like "named" lines, like London or Tokyo. It sort of gives each line a personality. Maybe it's not as efficient as colors in some way, but then once you have about ten lines you reach a point where you run out of easily distinguishable colors to use.

CTA with its eiht lines is pretty close to reaching that point. So what's left? Black/White are probably off limits because of racial undertones. Of course, there's gray. What else? Aqua? That makes ten. Any others? Lime, Indigo? To me it seems like those would be too hard to tell apart from other colors already in use.

nomarandlee Jul 23, 2012 2:26 PM

Quote:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classi...3979161.column

Area transit agencies to get federal oversight
New law aimed at setting safety standards for commuter trains and buses

Jon Hilkevitch: Getting Around

July 23, 2012

Layers of government regulations protect Americans traveling by commercial airliners, Amtrak trains, intercity bus services like Greyhound, passenger ships, and cars and trucks.

But since the 1960s, a huge gap has existed in one part of the transportation safety net. It involves millions of trips daily in U.S. cities on public transit systems, including the CTA, Metra and Pace in the Chicago area.

A new federal law is intended to eliminate that loophole and strengthen transit safety nationwide. Backed by $25 million a year in new funding for safety and inspection-related training, transit agencies may discover risks they didn't know were as serious as they are, officials said.

For the first time, the Federal Transit Administration will have the responsibility to establish and enforce minimum federal safety standards for commuter rail, heavy rail, light rail and transit buses. The standards will replace a patchwork of state laws...........
..

Standpoor Jul 23, 2012 6:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Busy Bee (Post 5774014)
OK, now let me have it!

I'll throw in one of my own. The CTA should get rid of all official references to the L and just call it the metro and the trademark Metra should be banished for all eternity. It is just too damn confusing.

Case in point, the Olympics. There were two major criticisms of Chicago's bid, no full money guarantee and lackluster transportation. After reading the IOC materials, I am convinced that some hack at the IOC did not understand the difference between Metra and the metro and figured the plan was for 2/3 of visitors to use Metra. I am also surprised that nobody on the Chicago bid committee picked up on this.

If we truly are a global city, just do away with the confusing branded names and go with generic but universal designations.

Ok, now let me have it!

Busy Bee Jul 23, 2012 6:46 PM

Well I think we could all agree that the stunning lack of integration between the L and Metra is the primary issue, branding is down the list of things quite a bit that would have both systems function as a true regional system, i.e. the oft cited Paris Metro/RER.


But yeah I hate Metra's whole identity. It's not as much the name Metra as it is the dreary graphic identity and their obnoxious incessancy on naming the route after the legacy railroad/operator or on whatever freight RR currently owns the mainline. What other system in the world does this? Like ardecila said, who remembers the RI Lines? Well I don't remember it personally, and I love railroad history personally, but I do agree it makes no sense to continue to refer to the lines buy their decades old defunct previous operators.

And don't get me going on Metra's ancient and embarrassing rolling stock, clueless branding strategies and bizarre resistance to electrification.

ardecila Jul 23, 2012 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orulz (Post 5774267)
I for one like "named" lines, like London or Tokyo. It sort of gives each line a personality. Maybe it's not as efficient as colors in some way, but then once you have about ten lines you reach a point where you run out of easily distinguishable colors to use.

CTA with its eiht lines is pretty close to reaching that point. So what's left? Black/White are probably off limits because of racial undertones. Of course, there's gray. What else? Aqua? That makes ten. Any others? Lime, Indigo? To me it seems like those would be too hard to tell apart from other colors already in use.

Yellow. The Skokie Swift is such a short little dink of a line that it probably doesn't merit a full color like the rest. Minor platform extensions and a rebuilding of Dempster would allow alternate Red Line trains to continue beyond Howard, and Yellow could be re-assigned. (Of course, Skokie might protest at a one-seat ride to Englewood)

It would also make Howard a lot simpler to operate, with Red Line trains always on the center tracks, Purple Line trains always on the outer tracks, and no Yellow Line to muck everything up.

After that, there's (according to Mr. D) aqua, lime, maroon, and magenta. If proper care was taken, the Maroon Line would not cross the Red Line, the Lime Line would not cross the Green Line, etc. At a very minimum, they could never interline on the same tracks.

Standpoor Jul 24, 2012 5:35 AM

^^
Well said.

I always thought that the circle line could use white/black and get away with it. The signs would be a white circle on a black background or a black circle on a white background. Kind of like the London underground sign but in white and black. Everyone would call it the circle line but maps/signs would be able to use a black line.

ardecila Jul 24, 2012 9:27 AM

I'm just waiting for the Lime Line so I can go get some Coronas and enjoy some sweet L boozin...


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:34 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.