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N830MH Nov 15, 2011 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg (Post 5478138)
I'm surprised nobody here noticed that the CTA's new 5000-series railcars went into service on the Pink Line on Tuesday.

http://www.cityofchicago.org/content...wrailcars.html

Do you have a picture of new railcars? I would love to see it. Thanks! What about Blue Line hasn't gone replaced new railcars yet.

ardecila Nov 15, 2011 11:27 AM

^^ Not much to see. They look just like the old 3200s, except the seating is configured differently and the destination signs are LED. Most of the changes are under the hood.

Nowhereman1280 Nov 15, 2011 3:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5479904)
California isn't as heavily-used as Damen, true, but it still has a decent amount of traffic (1.2M riders/year to Damen's 1.7). I don't see the need for a secondary entrance (to St. George Court??) but elevators should be installed.

Yes, but that might not be the case for long as Logan Square is growing very fast right now and already has those numbers despite numerous developable parcels within a small radius of the California and Western Stops. I could see the Logan Square stops quickly catching up with or surpassing Damen as the building stock around Damen has a whole lot of single family homes and townhomes compared to the potential for large blocks of 6-8 flats and the existing high density apartment blocks in Logan Square.

What I really want to see happen is a complete rehab of the Belmont Blue Line to provide an auxiliary exit at Wellington and Kimball and one on the NW or SW Corner of Belmont and Kimball. I don't know why Belmont was ever built with a single entrance and can't think of another stop on the Blue Line that is like that. The Wellington exit especially would make a lot of sense as it would provide another point of access for the extremely dense cluster of buildings around Diversey and Milwaukee.

montasauraus Nov 15, 2011 5:48 PM

As someone who lives under the Pink Line, I think the new trains are great for the noise factor alone. In my opinion, it seems like the new trains have a relatively quieter electric whoosh instead of the loud steel rumble of the el we all know and love.

lawfin Nov 15, 2011 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 (Post 5481081)
Yes, but that might not be the case for long as Logan Square is growing very fast right now and already has those numbers despite numerous developable parcels within a small radius of the California and Western Stops. I could see the Logan Square stops quickly catching up with or surpassing Damen as the building stock around Damen has a whole lot of single family homes and townhomes compared to the potential for large blocks of 6-8 flats and the existing high density apartment blocks in Logan Square.

What I really want to see happen is a complete rehab of the Belmont Blue Line to provide an auxiliary exit at Wellington and Kimball and one on the NW or SW Corner of Belmont and Kimball. I don't know why Belmont was ever built with a single entrance and can't think of another stop on the Blue Line that is like that. The Wellington exit especially would make a lot of sense as it would provide another point of access for the extremely dense cluster of buildings around Diversey and Milwaukee.

I agree pretty much 100% I was going to say pretty much the same thing

Nowhereman1280 Nov 15, 2011 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montasauraus (Post 5481245)
As someone who lives under the Pink Line, I think the new trains are great for the noise factor alone. In my opinion, it seems like the new trains have a relatively quieter electric whoosh instead of the loud steel rumble of the el we all know and love.

Do the trains have a new suspension? I would imagine a smoother suspension could reduce noise in this way. Then again it might just be due to the fact that all the parts haven't rattled loose yet on the new ones...

Mr Downtown Nov 16, 2011 12:47 AM

^I think the 5000s are substantially heavier because of the DC conversion gear. And the wheels are still trued; in fact I understand the wheels have to be trued frequently which is why they're only on the Pink Line for now.

Beta_Magellan Nov 16, 2011 6:35 PM

Why’d they put them on the Pink Line, anyway? It’s not like they need the extra capacity.

Shakedown cruise?

ardecila Nov 16, 2011 7:42 PM

As Mr. Downtown stated, the wheels on the 5000s apparently require frequent "truing". This is a new twist, and required new machinery and techniques to be implemented at whichever shops the 5000 belonged to. I'm guessing the Pink Line was chosen because it has a similar operation to the other CTA lines (6-car trains, runs around the Loop, etc) but only 44 railcars. That means it's relatively inexpensive to purchase the machines and do the training at the 54th Avenue shops, because the workforce there is relatively small.

Plus, as soon as CTA has 44 new 5000s, they can send the Pink Line's 2600s over to the Blue Line.

VivaLFuego Nov 16, 2011 8:01 PM

The only shops with wheel truing machines are 54th (to serve the old Blue Line/West-Northwest) and Skokie (to serve everything else), although at least one more will be installed in the coming year or 2.

Steely Dan Nov 16, 2011 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5482700)
Plus, as soon as CTA has 44 new 5000s, they can send the Pink Line's 2600s over to the Blue Line.

would transferring the pink line's 2600s over to the blue mean that they can FINALLY get rid of the "scissor door" 2200s still operating on the blue line? i can't for the life of me fathom why the CTA still operates those rolling anachronisms on the one train line serving the city's busiest airport, where people frequently have large and bulky luggage to get on and off the train.

it makes no freaking sense, but i suppose that would be par for the course for the CTA.

untitledreality Nov 16, 2011 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5482700)
Plus, as soon as CTA has 44 new 5000s, they can send the Pink Line's 2600s over to the Blue Line.

Thats essentially the plan. According to chicago-l.org and ChicagoBus.org the order of dispersal will be Pink, Green, Red, Orange Yellow, Purple... 2400s on Green and Purple will be retired, the 2600s on Pink/Red/Purple/Yellow will replace the 2200s on the Blue Line and the 3200s of the Orange Line will be dispersed to both the Blue and Brown lines based on compatibility.

ardecila Nov 16, 2011 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 5482800)
would transferring the pink line's 2600s over to the blue mean that they can FINALLY get rid of the "scissor door" 2200s still operating on the blue line? i can't for the life of me fathom why the CTA still operates those rolling anachronisms on the one train line serving the city's busiest airport, where people frequently have large and bulky luggage to get on and off the train.

it makes no freaking sense, but i suppose that would be par for the course for the CTA.

No. The Pink Line only operates 44 2600s, while the Blue Line has ~130 2200s. Additional 2600s will need to come to the Blue Line from somewhere else.

Alternatively, CTA could just directly replace the remaining 2200s with 5000s. The Blue Line is self-contained, since it does not share track or maintenance sheds with any other line. CTA could send the new wheel truing machine to Forest Park or Rosemont yard.

Personally, I think the 2200s are the best-looking of any CTA railcar, past or present. The lines of the 2200 were specifically designed to complement the International Style stations of the Kennedy and Dan Ryan. They are quite literally a Miesian railcar, and pretty slick-looking even if the doors are outmoded.

EDIT: just saw the post above me. That seems like the most complicated way to phase in the 5000s... since it requires virtually the entire fleet to be reshuffled. I'm guessing there are reasons to do it that way, though... the 2400s do need replacement within the next decade, and running the 5000s on the Red Line will provide great photo-ops around the time the Billion-Dollar Project is completed.

VivaLFuego Nov 17, 2011 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5482914)
No. The Pink Line only operates 44 2600s, while the Blue Line has ~130 2200s. Additional 2600s will need to come to the Blue Line from somewhere else.

As I understand it, the phasing is something like:

1. 5000s to Pink Line. 2600s from Pink Line to Blue Line. Retire 2200s.
2. 5000s to Green Line. 2400s from Green join their brethren at Howard for Red/Purple/Yellow service. 2600s from Howard to Blue Line. Retire remaining 2200s, begin retiring some 2400s.
3. 5000s to Howard. Retire 2400s.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 5482800)
i can't for the life of me fathom why the CTA still operates those rolling anachronisms on the one train line serving the city's busiest airport, where people frequently have large and bulky luggage to get on and off the train.

The short answer is that, if you take the following mathematical constraints as a given:

1. Minimize the number of different railcar series operating out of each terminal, for the purpose of efficiency in mechanic training and stockroom inventories.
2. The 2200s must operate in train consists that also have at least one pair of another series of car, because the 2200s are not ADA compliant. So, 2200s can't make up the entire fleet at any terminal
3. Each line has a given peak car requirement based on its schedule, more or less determining exactly how many cars must be assigned to each terminal*
4. The 2200s are the oldest cars in the system and thus there is an interest in minimizing their mileage, so a line with a high differential between peak/off-peak vehicle requirements is ideal.

...then it becomes clear that Blue Line is the only reasonably viable option for the 2200s.

Rizzo Nov 17, 2011 1:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5482914)
No. The Pink Line only operates 44 2600s, while the Blue Line has ~130 2200s. Additional 2600s will need to come to the Blue Line from somewhere else.

Alternatively, CTA could just directly replace the remaining 2200s with 5000s. The Blue Line is self-contained, since it does not share track or maintenance sheds with any other line. CTA could send the new wheel truing machine to Forest Park or Rosemont yard.

Personally, I think the 2200s are the best-looking of any CTA railcar, past or present. The lines of the 2200 were specifically designed to complement the International Style stations of the Kennedy and Dan Ryan. They are quite literally a Miesian railcar, and pretty slick-looking even if the doors are outmoded.

EDIT: just saw the post above me. That seems like the most complicated way to phase in the 5000s... since it requires virtually the entire fleet to be reshuffled. I'm guessing there are reasons to do it that way, though... the 2400s do need replacement within the next decade, and running the 5000s on the Red Line will provide great photo-ops around the time the Billion-Dollar Project is completed.

The 2200s look like a smashed an unraveled food can to me. Maybe I have poor taste in rail car design but comments I hear from outsiders is our new and old rolling stock looks vintage

untitledreality Nov 17, 2011 1:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardecila (Post 5482914)
and running the 5000s on the Red Line will provide great photo-ops around the time the Billion-Dollar Project is completed.

I wonder if the track/tie work on the Purple line express will allow for 70mph speeds since the line will be operating the 5000s? I would venture to guess that they wont due to any instability of the walled embankment they ride on... that we would need to wait for a complete rebuild. Maybe we can at least see a return to 55mph speeds?

untitledreality Nov 17, 2011 2:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward (Post 5483107)
Maybe I have poor taste in rail car design but comments I hear from outsiders is our new and old rolling stock looks vintage

Just take a look at Bombardier's Metro Rail products and you will see first hand how antiquated our rail stock (along with NYC's) looks compared to the rest of the world.

Not that it matters for me... long as it works I could care less what it looks like... but we all know that for the general public, the 5000 series cars are not going to excite anyone or attract flocks of new riders... they just look same old, same old.

ardecila Nov 17, 2011 4:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayward (Post 5483107)
The 2200s look like a smashed an unraveled food can to me. Maybe I have poor taste in rail car design but comments I hear from outsiders is our new and old rolling stock looks vintage

I didn't particularly like them either until I knew that they were designed by SOM. When you view them in the context of a modernist station, it all starts to make sense. Plus, the front end seems far more integrated into the overall design. From the 2400s forward, you can clearly tell the front end is some sort of fiberglass or plastic while the rest is metal.

http://www.chicago-l.org/trains/gall...00/cta2292.jpg
source

Standpoor Nov 17, 2011 5:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitledreality (Post 5483195)
Just take a look at Bombardier's Metro Rail products and you will see first hand how antiquated our rail stock (along with NYC's) looks compared to the rest of the world.

Not that it matters for me... long as it works I could care less what it looks like... but we all know that for the general public, the 5000 series cars are not going to excite anyone or attract flocks of new riders... they just look same old, same old.

But there in lies the brilliance. The simplicity of the design and materials means that it won't ever be in style but it will never be out of style either. They look the same 40 years ago, 20 years ago, today and 20 years from now. Same goes for the Metra bi-levels. The 2200 cars were built 40 years ago and look better than BART and WMATA cars built merely 20 years ago. The 5000s will be mundane but practical long after those Bombardier stylish cars seem old and out of style.

emathias Nov 17, 2011 6:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Standpoor (Post 5483446)
But there in lies the brilliance. The simplicity of the design and materials means that it won't ever be in style but it will never be out of style either. They look the same 40 years ago, 20 years ago, today and 20 years from now. Same goes for the Metra bi-levels. The 2200 cars were built 40 years ago and look better than BART and WMATA cars built merely 20 years ago. The 5000s will be mundane but practical long after those Bombardier stylish cars seem old and out of style.

Color notwithstanding, I think the Metro Series HK will hold their own when it comes to design longevity.


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