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HossC Jan 21, 2014 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by FredH (Post 6411805)
1957 - Right to left, looking north up South Grand Avenue: the 1940 Avalon Apartments at 144, the circa 1890 Richelieu Hotel at 142, the 1881
or 1887 Melrose Hotel at 130 and the 1890-91 Melrose Annex at 120. Note the construction of the Superior Court across First Street.

Stagecoach near the Melrose Hotel and the Hotel Richelieu on Grand Avenue between First Street and Second Street, ca.1895
USC Digital Library

Melrose Hotel and the Hotel Richelieu on Grand Avenue between First Street and Second Street, 1946
USC Digital Library

Some previous posts featuring the Melrose and Richelieu:

WS1911 Jan 21, 2014 1:03 AM

LA High 1917-1971

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6413760)
Two towers coming down

Left, seen here before at and right, well, also seen here before, but I'll make it a guessing game.

The tower on the right, as several have already commented, is of LA High School. I graduated from LA High in the summer of 1967 and the earthquake occurred less than four years later. The building was demolished that year and my alma mater is forever gone. If the quake had occurred in 2014, I feel almost certain that the building would have been repaired, restored and made earthquake resistant. The 1970s was not a good time for historic preservation and there is not much to be said about the present school building.


jg6544 Jan 21, 2014 1:40 AM


Originally Posted by Those Who Squirm (Post 6413455)
For perhaps the first fifty years after the second World War, cities didn't work in America because nobody in power really wanted them to work. While most of the country was becoming car-dependent and suburbanized, Robert Moses was trying to turn even NYC into L.A. as far as urban planning and transit (or the lack of it) went. Among other things, according to the Wiki article, he intentionally placed recreational facilities like swimming pools far from mass transit, so you had to have a car to go there--as many pointed out, a not-too-subtle way of favoring Anglos. We all remember now that, in the 1970s, NYC was the poster child for all of America's urban ills. More recently, in the early 1990s it was L.A., and far too many still think the entire city south of the 10 and east of the 405 is "the ghetto", if not an all-out war zone.

What's different today is that more people are attracted to the idea of urban living if it means not having to spend so much of your cash, time, and patience on your car, and not having to pony up $15 or $20 just to park at the museum or the football game--or for that matter, five days a week at the office. Even the process of driving, itself, becomes a burden when you are doing 15 mph on the 10, or when it takes you a half hour to crawl from Barrington Avenue to Sepulveda because the 405 on-ramp is backed up to Bundy. You just want to keep your windows up and the AC on so you can hear the radio or music player and frankly it's depressing. In such conditions, the original appeal of being able to drive everywhere loses a lot of its luster.

It's certainly not as if everyone wants to move back to living in city apartments, but then it's not necessary for everyone to do so to make it viable. It only needs enough people.

As for me, I'll gladly endure this:
(Own work)

…and this
(Own work)

if it means I don't have to do this:
L.A. Weekly (

Granted there are times when using transit is isn’t practical, but without it being one of those times I’ll never drive myself into DTLA again.

It has gotten to the point where being behind the wheel for much more than five minutes makes me wish I had a gun. I'd much, much rather put up with congested mass transit provided it's fast, clean, dependable, and safe.

Krell58 Jan 21, 2014 2:59 AM


Originally Posted by GatoVerde (Post 6414658)
Is this where the Pioneer Memorial currently stands? I also wonder if the steep walkway to the Banning House is visible here or if they are closer to where the current concrete stairs are behind the Pioneer Memorial. The Banning House had been converted to a tavern. I remember reading about a sign at or near the tavern that read something like "climb up, tumble down."

Btw, these slides are beautiful.I can't help thinking of Paul Simon, and that bringing Kodachrome back might be among my top three wishes.

The Stanley Mosk Courthouse is on this site now.

The Pioneer Memorial is 2 blocks north of here on Hill, just past the Santa Ana Freeway.

Noircitydame Jan 21, 2014 3:08 AM


Originally Posted by Flyingwedge (Post 6412357)
LAPL has some 2013 photos by James Sanderson of the inside of the Charnock before it was gutted; here are three.

Inside the top floor turret on the corner:

Top floor room:

Fireplace closeup:

More info from LAPL: The Roma Hotel located at 508 South Main Street was constructed in 1904 by Fred L. and Frank M. Lee. The ground floor appears to have been used originally as retail and office space with lodging on the upper floors. The Charnock Block/Pershing Hotel is located at 500 South Main Street at the corner of South Main and East 5th Streets. The Charnock Block was constructed in two phases, first in 1889 with a long rectangular plan built on the lot that faces 5th Street and then in 1907 with an addition on the next lot to the south. In 1923, the Charnock Block became known as the Pershing Hotel and is a rare example of Late Victorian era commercial architecture and Second Empire style. In 1989, both the Roma and Charnock Block/Pershing Hotel underwent major renovation, replacing storefronts, remodeling the ground floors and reconfiguring the third floor to create common area space, joining the two buildings together. Both buildings have been identified as contributing buildings to the 5th - Main Street Commercial Historic District which was determined eligible for listing in the National Register of Historic Places in 2007.

Other Charnock posts:

It was pretty. I'm surprised how much architectureal detail the interior still had

WS1911 Jan 21, 2014 3:18 AM


Blaster Jan 21, 2014 4:43 AM

What is this all about?[/QUOTE]

THE BLACK WATCH was a 1929 film directed by John Ford, starring Victor McLaglen and Myrna Loy. Apparently it was playing at the Fox Carthay Circle.

Mstimc Jan 21, 2014 5:53 AM


Originally Posted by Blaster (Post 6415246)

THE BLACK WATCH was a 1929 film directed by John Ford, starring Victor McLaglen and Myrna Loy. Apparently it was playing at the Fox Carthay Circle.[/QUOTE]

The term "Black Watch" refers to a rather famous British Army regiment made up mostly of Scots from the Highland region. The "watch" refers to their original 18th century role as a patrol regiment to help keep the peace between highland and lowland clans. The meaning behind "black" is a little more murky, but may refer to the dark tartan patterns they wear. Black Watch soldiers have fought in every major British Army engagement from the mid-1700's up to and including the Afghan/Iraqi wars.

BDiH Jan 21, 2014 7:49 AM


Originally Posted by FredH (Post 6402385)
1938 - North Broadway, Freight Yard, Spring Street, Figueroa (pre-110 Fry), Hill Street

Dogtown! Here's a noir story with Dogtown as backdrop:

FredH Jan 21, 2014 9:09 AM

1957 - View is from Flower Street north of 7th Street, looking south. The YMCA at 715 South Hope Street is to the left.
Martz Flats and YMCA became the site of the Charles Luckman 1973 Broadway Plaza. On the right is the thirteen story
Renaissance Revival 1924 Parkinson & Parkinson Gas Building; today this view is obscured by the curtain-wall 1960 AC Martin
Gas Building at 8th Street.

FredH Jan 21, 2014 9:18 AM

1969 - North view along Flower Street from top of the Bank of California Building. Prominent buildings in
the background from left to right are the Bunker Hill Towers, Los Angeles Department of Water and
Power, and the Music Center.

FredH Jan 21, 2014 9:37 AM

400 block of South Flower Street cleared for redevelopment with the Sunkist Building, 707 West 5th Street, to the right
still in place. In the background on the right, the Art Deco style Edison Building, 601 West 5th Street, and Pacific Bell
Tower, 420 South Grand Avenue, on the left.

FredH Jan 21, 2014 9:53 AM

1966 - Looking at backside of 705 Hope Street demolition and Roosevelt Building at Flower and 7th Streets. YMCA building is to the right.

FredH Jan 21, 2014 10:07 AM

1968 - The Congress Hotel with Jerry's Restaurant at the corner. Next door is the Hotel Armondale, 748 South Flower
Street. The Roosevelt at 727 West 7th Street in the distance. The new Pereira designed Crocker Citizen's Bank tower
over at 611 West 6th Street looms above.

Colonel Mustard Jan 21, 2014 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by jg6544 (Post 6415031)
It has gotten to the point where being behind the wheel for much more than five minutes makes me wish I had a gun. I'd much, much rather put up with congested mass transit provided it's fast, clean, dependable, and safe.

I used to commute from West Hollywood to Woodland Hills, a drive that would send me into an absolutely murderous rage on a GOOD day. During the height of summer, when Hollywood Bowl traffic had the 101 backed all the way up to Universal City, it was like an out-of-body experience.

FredH Jan 21, 2014 10:17 AM

1970 - Upper three stories of the Hotel Armondale, 748 South Flower Street, have been demolished as
work progresses concurrently on the Congress Hotel next to it. Blue 1960 Gas Company building prominent
in background sits across 8th Street.

GaylordWilshire Jan 21, 2014 2:11 PM


Originally Posted by FredH (Post 6415428)

Keep 'em coming, FredH--it's not just that you post the pictures, it's your expert building id's...

The Armondale rang a bell, not so much because of the L.A. connection but because of his connection to the Grinnell at 800 Riverside Drive here in NY, on the website of which I first saw the article below... Times Oct 27, 1919

More on the noir aspects of the Armondale here at the great 1947project (scroll down):

GaylordWilshire Jan 21, 2014 5:22 PM

The Armondale and the Martz Flats, circa 1916 per the USCDL

ethereal_reality Jan 21, 2014 5:50 PM

Here's more on the 1947 DOGTOWN murder from Feb. 14, 2012.


Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 5589914)
I recently found these snapshots of a construction site at 1250 N. Main Street dated 1943.

I googled the address and found the building still intact at N. Main & Elmyra Street.
google street view

Noirish alert.

By pure coincidence, the construction snapshots I found on ebay led me to the site of a body dump (the same year as the 'Black Dahlia' murder).
A mail clerk stumbled across the naked body of 21 year old Rosenda Mondragon at North Main and Elmyra Street on the morning of July 8th 1947.

below: Information on the Rosenda Mondragon murder.
Michael Newton

Looking south on North Main toward the intersection with Elmyra Street (the site of the body dump).

ethereal_reality Jan 21, 2014 5:57 PM


Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire (Post 6415549)
FredH--it's not just that you post the color pictures, it's your expert building id's...

I couldn't agree more. Your identifications have been superb FredH. Thanks for all your hard work.

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