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santamonicadesign Mar 21, 2021 3:45 PM

Cleaned up version...
 
http://solidgoldman.com/Tinys.jpg

ethereal_reality Mar 21, 2021 5:09 PM

.
mystery location / illicit gambling / where is this?



CAUGHT!

SHOOTING CRAPS at the Samarkand Ice Cream parlor factory(?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RiSm34.jpg
eBay






I say "caught" because it appears a car has pulled up and someone in the car snapped this photograph. (or maybe we're looking at the side of the car hood) note the horizontal seam.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/YaymER.jpg






Moments later this man comes running up to the car and waves them away.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/YBZcGr.jpg

Over the man's right shoulder you can see a possible clue which is pretty much the only clue in the entire bunch of photographs.







A closer look at the clue.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/NhPpJy.jpg

I know what it looks like to me. What does it look like to you?








Now let's look at the rest of the snapshots.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/belfZj.jpg

I haven't had any luck deciphering the sign on the ground. (the one they're rolling the dice against)








It's a bit difficult to see but I think the sign on the ground has been removed. And there are two other signs that we haven't seen before.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/g6P3xD.jpg

And like the first photograph this one was taken from inside a car.






It must be high stakes crap game because this is a fairly large group of men.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/FVpsfW.jpg






https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/T0qxJX.jpg





And then there's this guy who resembles that Rood dude we saw several years back. (remember Rood?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/tvLE0i.jpg






This date stamp is on the back of each photograph. (May 31, 1938)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/ox62zj.jpg



Good luck minions sleuths! :superwhip


.

austlar1 Mar 21, 2021 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9223552)
In 1971, when I was a teen, my parents bought a large house with a large yard in a fairly nice area of the SF Valley for $25k. Now probably worth close to a million.

As far as savings rates go, I earned 15% on treasury bills, notes and bonds in 1981, and even banks paid that much on CDs. My mistake then was not to lock in these high rates for 10 or 20 years. I would settle for 5% now, but the FED keeps rates artificially low hurting retired people on fixed incomes. To earn even close to 5% now you have to buy risky things like junk bonds. But then you worry about return of your principal.

It's worth remembering that those high interest rates of the 1970s and early 1980s accompanied the worst inflation seen in the country in the 20th Century. It is also when LA area housing prices began to climb and climb and climb. Until that period, LA was one of the most affordable big cities in the country.

ethereal_reality Mar 21, 2021 7:35 PM

.
Hey noirishers. . .I just noticed this.

You can see the dice leaving the man's hand!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RBsYV1.jpg

hmm, but it looks like three dice. I thought two dice are thrown in a craps game. :shrug:

ALSO TOO, this detail gives you a closer look at the sign on the ground. (the one I've been trying to decipher)


P.S. I realize multiple dice are die.

.

odinthor Mar 21, 2021 9:17 PM

:previous:

https://i.postimg.cc/bYkzjywj/Samarkand-LAT-32-9-17.jpg
LA Times, 9/17/1932.

2146 Sacramento St. looks somewhat different now:

https://i.postimg.cc/Gm0GmhkJ/Samarkand-Now.jpg
gsv

CityBoyDoug Mar 22, 2021 5:24 AM

Chevy

https://www.chevytrucklegends.com/co...gallery-3.jpeg
history club

CaliNative Mar 22, 2021 9:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9224576)
.
Hey noirishers. . .I just noticed this.

You can see the dice leaving the man's hand!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RBsYV1.jpg

hmm, but it looks like three dice. I thought two dice are thrown in a craps game. :shrug::uhh:

ALSO TOO, this detail gives you a closer look at the sign on the ground. (the one I've been trying to decipher)


P.S. I realize multiple dice are die.

.

The "3rd die" might be his pinkie finger or ring finger sticking down as he throws the dice. Samarkand, an old city in eastern Russia or Uzbekistan is the last place I'd associate with ice cream. Odd name for an ice cream factory or parlor. The chain seemed to peak in the 1920s, and like a lot of things, the 1930s brought them down. Anybody know if Samarkand Ice Cream shops went beyond L.A. area? A limited google search has little on them except old pictures.

nealberke Mar 23, 2021 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9224924)
The "3rd die" might be his pinkie finger or ring finger sticking down as he throws the dice. Samarkand, an old city in eastern Russia or Uzbekistan is the last place I'd associate with ice cream. Odd name for an ice cream factory or parlor. Maybe the owner of the ice cream parlor & crap shooting parking lot came from there?

The Little Rascals buy ice creme at the Samarkand Ice Creme "Bucket" shaped like an ice creme churn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv0oivhUJYs

CaliNative Mar 23, 2021 3:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealberke (Post 9225766)
The Little Rascals buy ice creme at the Samarkand Ice Creme "Bucket" shaped like an ice creme churn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv0oivhUJYs

Good find. That's one of those early silent "Our Gang" shorts from the late 1920s. The fat "early Spanky" kid with tge beanie predates Spanky McFarland from the 1930s, the ones with Alfalfa and Darla etc. Poor Alfalfa was shot in a dispute over a hunting dog. Fat Spanky lived to a ripe old age. I don't know what happened to Darla.

The Samarkand store in the 1930s where they are shooting craps looks defunct, or at least struggling, maybe a casualty of the depression. I can't imagine a store owner letting men shoot craps in the parking lot, unless he got a cut of the action. I wonder if all the Samarkand stores folded up in the '30s? If this store was still open, the scandal of craps games outside may have closed them for good.

GaylordWilshire Mar 23, 2021 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9224474)
.
mystery location / illicit gambling / where is this?


CAUGHT!

SHOOTING CRAPS at the Samarkand Ice Cream parlor factory(?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RiSm34.jpg
eBay


https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/T0qxJX.jpg


As the hubcap says, the car is a Pontiac, in this case, a '37.



Another Samarkand outlet was at the NEC of Wilshire and Ardmore:

https://i.postimg.cc/HLTp5WpC/smarkand-wilshire-bmp.jpghttps://i.postimg.cc/bJsdDYTw/samarkandcloseup-bmp.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/PqLQhHw1/samarkandsign-bmp.jpg

A history of the origins of Samarkand ice cream is here.



What you're seeing in the background is Milnor, Inc. which started out as the Longyear house in 1906, the full story of which is here....

https://i.postimg.cc/4xk8Wm7j/WBMilnor-bmp.jpg


https://i.postimg.cc/mgy0MQXm/3555-WB4-FB-bmp.jpg


.

Snix Mar 23, 2021 6:13 PM

J.P. Rettenmayer, founder of Samarkand Ice Cream, met an unpleasant noirish end. Death by simultaneous heart attack and falling out of a second story window.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...65e3b56b_w.jpg
Hollywood Citizen-News
2/25/37
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ff23d7db_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...66719375_b.jpg
San Francisco Examiner 2/25/37


Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9224474)
.
mystery location / illicit gambling / where is this?



CAUGHT!

SHOOTING CRAPS at the Samarkand Ice Cream parlor factory(?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RiSm34.jpg
eBay






I say "caught" because it appears a car has pulled up and someone in the car snapped this photograph. (or maybe we're looking at the side of the car hood) note the horizontal seam.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/YaymER.jpg






Moments later this man comes running up to the car and waves them away.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/YBZcGr.jpg

Over the man's right shoulder you can see a possible clue which is pretty much the only clue in the entire bunch of photographs.







A closer look at the clue.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/NhPpJy.jpg

I know what it looks like to me. What does it look like to you?








Now let's look at the rest of the snapshots.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/belfZj.jpg

I haven't had any luck deciphering the sign on the ground. (the one they're rolling the dice against)








It's a bit difficult to see but I think the sign on the ground has been removed. And there are two other signs that we haven't seen before.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/g6P3xD.jpg

And like the first photograph this one was taken from inside a car.






It must be high stakes crap game because this is a fairly large group of men.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/FVpsfW.jpg






https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/T0qxJX.jpg





And then there's this guy who resembles that Rood dude we saw several years back. (remember Rood?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/tvLE0i.jpg






This date stamp is on the back of each photograph. (May 31, 1938)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/ox62zj.jpg



Good luck minions sleuths! :superwhip


.


CityBoyDoug Mar 23, 2021 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snix (Post 9226488)
J.P. Rettenmayer, founder of Samarkand Ice Cream, met an unpleasant noirish end. Death by simultaneous heart attack and falling out of a second story window.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...65e3b56b_w.jpg
Hollywood Citizen-News
2/25/37
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ff23d7db_z.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...66719375_b.jpg
San Francisco Examiner 2/25/37

https://secure-images.rarenewspapers...4/image096.jpg
HCN

Famous Hollywood director kicks the can.

CityBoyDoug Mar 23, 2021 9:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9224474)
.
mystery location / illicit gambling / where is this?



CAUGHT!

SHOOTING CRAPS at the Samarkand Ice Cream parlor factory(?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/RiSm34.jpg
eBay






I say "caught" because it appears a car has pulled up and someone in the car snapped this photograph. (or maybe we're looking at the side of the car hood) note the horizontal seam.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/YaymER.jpg






Moments later this man comes running up to the car and waves them away.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/YBZcGr.jpg

Over the man's right shoulder you can see a possible clue which is pretty much the only clue in the entire bunch of photographs.







A closer look at the clue.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/NhPpJy.jpg

I know what it looks like to me. What does it look like to you?








Now let's look at the rest of the snapshots.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/belfZj.jpg

I haven't had any luck deciphering the sign on the ground. (the one they're rolling the dice against)








It's a bit difficult to see but I think the sign on the ground has been removed. And there are two other signs that we haven't seen before.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/g6P3xD.jpg

And like the first photograph this one was taken from inside a car.






It must be high stakes crap game because this is a fairly large group of men.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/FVpsfW.jpg






https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/T0qxJX.jpg





And then there's this guy who resembles that Rood dude we saw several years back. (remember Rood?)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/tvLE0i.jpg






This date stamp is on the back of each photograph. (May 31, 1938)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/ox62zj.jpg



Good luck minions sleuths! :superwhip


.

Anyone know what make of car that is in the next to bottom photo? The one with Rood in the driver's seat.

Blaster Mar 24, 2021 1:11 AM

I have lived in LA for over 40 years.

It always astounds me when I see photos from the past that the men are often wearing overcoats, hats, heavy suits, long sleeved shirts, ties, vests, etc.

Was the weather in LA cooler back in the 30's/40's and 50's?

These days, Philip Marlowe wouldn't need to wear his trench coat more than a couple days a year.

CaliNative Mar 24, 2021 5:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blaster (Post 9227052)
I have lived in LA for over 40 years.

It always astounds me when I see photos from the past that the men are often wearing overcoats, hats, heavy suits, long sleeved shirts, ties, vests, etc.

Was the weather in LA cooler back in the 30's/40's and 50's?

These days, Philip Marlowe wouldn't need to wear his trench coat more than a couple days a year.

It commonly gets cold in L.A. in November-March (except during periodic Santa Ana wind warmups), especially after cold fronts come through. Nightime lows often in 40s, sometimes down into 30s in mid winter, with frost in the inland valleys. A warm coat is needed. Many cold nights you see your breath. Global warming may reduce the cold days in the future.

ethereal_reality Mar 24, 2021 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snix





Here's an earlier photograph of Mr. Rettenmayer from the website brewerygems

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/ohInHi.jpg
brewerygems

As the Snix article states, "He had helped found the Acme Brewing." (hence Acme on the photograph)

& if I'm reading the information correctly he had planned a. . . .

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...922/STUYq4.jpg
but it never came into fruition.



The brewery site also included this photograph of a Samarkand Ice Cream in South Pasadena.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/OVtdte.jpg
link to photo

There are a few numbers of the street address visible. (it might be 1124. . .


re: Rettenmayer's demise.

Can you imagine having a massive heart attack and falling out a 2nd story window. ...That's some cruel fate, right there.




.

riichkay Mar 24, 2021 6:40 PM

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
artsy.net

Lee Friedlander took the photo in 1961.

I figured this was on one of the major West L.A. boulevards, eventually I ran 11854 Santa Monica Bl. on Building and Safety's site.....sure enough a 1958 permit came up for a used car lot....s.w. corner of Santa Monica and Westgate.



https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds


Could this beefy fellow be Peter Lupus, who played the strongman on the 60's "Mission: Impossible" TV series?


https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

HossC Mar 24, 2021 7:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9227593)

The brewery site also included this photograph of a Samarkand Ice Cream in South Pasadena.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...923/OVtdte.jpg
link to photo

There are a few numbers of the street address visible. (it might be 1124. . .

I found a different view of what I believe to be the same building at silverscreenoasis.com, and that confirms the number as 1124. The caption there says "Hollywood, California: Merchants in Hollywood, California seek self expression in constructing their store to resemble the commodity they sell. In the above photo, Esther Ralston, screen favorite is seen beside unique hut made to resemble a huge ice-cream freezer. The handle on top maintains a continuous movement."

I checked the CDs and found that in 1929, The Freezer had ice cream shops at 3641 W Pico, 7435 Sunset Boulevard, 3801 W Washington Boulevard, 402 S Western Avenue and 1124 Vine Street. The last address is just north of Santa Monica Boulevard. A year later, they were listed as Freezer Sweet Shops at 751 S Alvarado, 3475 Beverly Boulevard, 1881 Colorado Boulevard, 6244 Pasadena Avenue, 3641 W Pico, 7435 Sunset Boulevard, 3801 W Washington Boulevard, 402 S Western Avenue and 1124 N Vine.

ethereal_reality Mar 24, 2021 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HossC (Post 9227801)
I checked the CDs and found that in 1929, The Freezer had ice cream shops at 3641 W Pico, 7435 Sunset Boulevard, 3801 W Washington Boulevard, 402 S Western Avenue and 1124 Vine Street. The last address is just north of Santa Monica Boulevard. A year later, they were listed as Freezer Sweet Shops at 751 S Alvarado, 3475 Beverly Boulevard, 1881 Colorado Boulevard, 6244 Pasadena Avenue, 3641 W Pico, 7435 Sunset Boulevard, 3801 W Washington Boulevard, 402 S Western Avenue and 1124 N Vine.


Here is the 3641 W. Pico location.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/8...923/ByaKfA.jpg
w & p




And there is a survivor in the photograph. (no, not the people)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/bOiWUB.jpg



1257 4th Avenue

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/jjs6Yw.jpg
here.


.

odinthor Mar 24, 2021 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality (Post 9227877)
Here is the 3641 W. Pico location.

[...]

And there is a survivor in the photograph. (no, not the people)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...922/bOiWUB.jpg



1257 4th Avenue

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1...924/jjs6Yw.jpg
here.


.

And possibly another survivor, just possibly, is the palm at center below (if it has had a hard life and has grown rather slowly, not at all unlikely):

https://i.postimg.cc/RZB815k1/PicoPalm.jpg
gsv


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